INTP: Intellectual rednecks?

[Architect]

An observation about INTP's (based on my small sample size) is that "intellectual redneck" seems to be an apt description. One is our apparent affinity for slumming. We seem happy to hang out with low life type characters, actually preferring them to better society.

Two is a fascination with Redneck culture. An INTP friend of mine is; I've always enjoyed watching blue collar reality TV shows, and my INTP son loves playing games with those types of characters. All three of us (four if you include another INTP friend) love to imitate and joke about them too.

Finally, reading these boards you more often see people who hang out with drug users and dealers and so forth, rather than ones who hang out with the 'better' parts of society. INTJ's would be a close type I'd put there.

My guess is that it's the Se 'Trickster' in our shadow stack. If so then INFP's would share the affinity. Thoughts?

 

[Urakro]

I'm not sure what goes on in other INxP's minds, so I can only account for myself. In trying to grasp your concept of 'low-life type" vs "better parts of society", there doesn't seem to be a clear boundary between the two.

With communication being one of my least developed skill, it's a challenge starting a conversation that doesn't break some kind of accepted standard. So, it doesn't really matter to me if the person uses drugs or not, is wealthy or poor, or is redneck or not. More relevant to your inquiry, I prefer communication to be less-restricted, free, (and another synonym), uninhibited. I don't want to be 'shamed' for making a crude joke when the thought arises, or things getting awkward when I mention something out-of place or bizarre. There's only so much I can take of complaining about the weather, or the day of the week, and making commonplace statements.

So to me, there are people with very satisfying personalities who are quirky in their own way, with a unique perception and understanding of life. Then there are those who are too concerned of what is right and wrong, what's popular and unpopular, and perhaps, come across as a little uppity and stuck-up. Which isn't really all that exclusive, you could probably mash those two categories up.

I just know I don't fit into whatever the conventional practice is of people, and those who uphold this practice frightens me a little.

Finally I'll add, when imitating impressions and accents of people, the southern drawl is the easiest and is a good place to start. Other than that, I don't have much of a fascination with ....'rednecks'.

 

[Intolerable]

Well, INTP types like every other type can come from poor and wealthy backgrounds. I assume that to be the deciding factor in the company you keep.

You could also grow to hate the company you keep thus removing yourself from the social sphere. I think a lot of INTPs actually do that.

 

[Jennywocky]

I grew up in a rather poor rural area myself, although my parents had education beyond high school (my dad had a college degree, my mom had her nursing certifications). In my graduating class, most people entered the work force, became stay at home moms, or did a two-year community degree. A small minority left the area to get a four-year college education. 4H, tractor pulls, farm shows, dairy farms, and a decent number of people had a backwoods twang to their voice.

That's all being said to describe where I grew up, which would be considered "redneck" territory in PA, and so that environment actually feels far more familiar to me versus the more expensive suburban areas of the country.

But I also always had a "take everyone as they come." I cared more about what they said and their personality and character more than where they came from. Same thing with evaluating practices and behaviors; what makes sense, versus who is saying it. I found college with its high yuppie factor (at the time), people with a lot of money, etc.... well, it all seemed contrived to me and less down to earth, although when i found people who were forthright and reasonable, I didn't care about their background.

Anyway, yeah, the lack of pretension was appealing to me in the area I grew up, although there were still some firmly rooted biases/ignorance about outsiders and education in some ways. They also seemed to be more fun; again, less "we just don't do those things" and more boot-strapping and practicality.

I kind of float among social classes. I'd be considered upper-middle by now at least based on income, but I live in a lower-middle location and live modestly. I hang out with people from all different backgrounds without much effort, although I feel less comfortable with upper social/economic classes again because of expectation and pretension that can dominate. I had a blast hanging out in Chicago with my ENFP cousin in dive bars, etc., with friends who aren't afraid of drugs, have full-sleeve / body tats, multiple piercings, and whatever else... there just seems to be more forthrightness and less pretension.

 

[redbaron]

The members of hypothetical 'better society' are usually the actual 'low-lifes' in practice once you crack the surface.

Also I tend to find about 75% of young people with degrees to be boring, sterile and unbearably generic. Number 1 on the list is engineers and architects. Not sure what it is about engineering and architecture but it seems like all the soul suckers gravitate towards the profession (no offense Kuu, data taken from real life not forum...although DrGH doesn't exactly help the plight).

So I don't think it's to do with the Se 'trickster' as much as it's to do with the Ti, 'I don't want to be around closed-minded fuckwits'. But then again I'm not even Ti.

Also I realise this post is going to serve as a perfect enabler for people to be all "yeah man 420 blaze it smoke w33d everyday 69/420 xDDD" but no you fuckface. That's just as predictably boring and sterile as the engineers. As a general rule if you were thinking this post vindicates you as not being unbearably generic, then you're probably unbearably generic.

 

[Archer]

An observation about INTP's is that (based on my small sample size) is that "intellectual redneck" seems to be an apt description. One is our apparent affinity for slumming. We seem happy to hang out with low life type characters, actually preferring them to better society. Two is a fascination with Redneck culture. An INTP friend of mine is, I've always enjoyed watching blue collar reality TV shows, and my INTP son loves playing games with those types of characters. All three of us (four if you include another INTP friend) love to imitate and joke about them too. Further reading these boards you more often see people who hang out with drug users and dealers and so forth, rather than ones who hang out with the 'better' parts of society. INTJ's would be a close type I'd put there.

My guess is that it's the Se 'Trickster' in our shadow stack. If so then INFP's would share the affinity. Thoughts?

I think this is an interesting observation, however real low life characters are not people I would assume you would even be comfortable around. Constantly worrying about the safety of those around you is draining and stressful. I think the average person is what you might define as blue collar, or lowly, which is a fairly arrogant term. Average people might not be as interesting, but they are -- IME -- more stable and genuinely kindhearted than either extreme.

 

[Hadoblado]

Class must protect and sustain itself. In pursuit of these goals, class must be careful with who it associates. There's obviously exceptions, some people have less difficulty fitting in and can choose their company frivolously (and if they pull of being friends with the gutterfolk without calling their social position into question, they've just proven their character also).

Protecting one's status is unINTP-like. It's additional maintenance. Any class inherited is less likely to be sustained by an INTP vessel. INTPs are also less likely to pursue class for its own sake. Thus, they have less upward mobility, and more downward mobility.

There's also the intolerable notion that people learn. It may be the case that INTP traits, such as preoccupation with seeing through hierarchical bullshit, is something more likely to be acquired when one's privilege isn't facilitated by their inherited class.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

What constitutes higher class? Money, power, influence?

Theoretically INTP's wouldn't enjoy hanging out with stereotypical rednecks; god-fearing, knee-jerking gun owners and the like. However they would be less picky with intelligent, knowledgeable or otherwise stimulating individuals of lesser social standing, due to their disinterest in exclusivity or pursuing social capital, or perhaps their lack of acceptance of such values and their genuine curiosity about the actual merit behind people.

I feel less comfortable with upper social/economic classes again because of expectation and pretension that can dominate.

I've noticed something similar.

Usually I don't consider someone's social standing and often times rich people have that way of flaunting or advertising their excellence and/or innate superiority whenever they can. I don't think in those terms when meeting new people or talking to them, unless I meet a hoodlum or a visibly dirty homeless person, etc. where it's instantly visible and an unavoidable defining part of their life.

Even then If I feel safe and not in danger of being mugged or isolated from the public I don't see many problems with brief interaction. I automatically distrust anyone who approaches me on the street so there's no chance I'd befriend a homeless person under natural circumstances. I wouldn't want to let them know where I live or where I'm going because I have little trust in them. I was a passing 'friend' with a few homeless and we greeted each other whenever we were passing some usual spot with his or my friends, but neither side really wanted to deepen the relationship.

I'm not interested in associating with alcoholics, druggies or criminals and other people who willingly violate some of my moral principles. I base this decision on my desire to avoid negative influences in my life. And so it statistically happens that many of such people are of lower social strata, so I tend to be more guarded and evasive around them.

There were times I've spent waiting for a bus or walking somewhere and keeping the conversation with a crazy homeless lady or similar folks in the instances where many others turned away from them or evaded them to the opposite side of the street, etc. I appreciated their unique perspective on the world. Sometimes the experience was exhilarating or refreshing in some way.

 

[Architect]

Anyway, yeah, the lack of pretension was appealing to me in the area I grew up

That's it for me - lack of pretension. I generally prefer hanging out with low lifes (sorry I don't have a better term) because they aren't faking anything. My brother, ISTP married to an ISTJ, is rich and always pretending. Drives me crazy how inauthentic he is, even apparently to himself. I find people who aren't putting on a show more interesting.

The members of hypothetical 'better society' are usually the actual 'low-lifes' in practice once you crack the surface.

Sometimes, not usually. About the same as in society in general I'd say, most of them are decent good people, and the majority give a lot to charity.

What constitutes higher class? Money, power, influence?

Sure. Mrs Archie and I are in-between worlds. Because of work, upbringing and where we live we are nominally the upper crust (technically upper middle class probably), but we hate hanging out with our supposed peer group and mostly avoid it. Made it hard to pick the area where we'd buy our house. Finally picked an area with a mixture of middle class on down. Wasn't conscious, but we previously were living in the tony neighborhood which didn't feel right.

 

[Jennywocky]

Usually I don't consider someone's social standing and often times rich people have that way of flaunting or advertising their excellence and/or innate superiority whenever they can. I don't think in those terms when meeting new people or talking to them, unless I meet a hoodlum or a visibly dirty homeless person, etc. where it's instantly visible and an unavoidable defining part of their life.

Even then If I feel safe and not in danger of being mugged or isolated from the public I don't see many problems with brief interaction. I automatically distrust anyone who approaches me on the street so there's no chance I'd befriend a homeless person under natural circumstances. I wouldn't want to let them know where I live or where I'm going because I have little trust in them. I was a passing 'friend' with a few homeless and we greeted each other whenever we were passing some usual spot with his or my friends, but neither side really wanted to deepen the relationship.

I'm not interested in associating with alcoholics, druggies or criminals and other people who willingly violate some of my moral principles. I base this decision on my desire to avoid negative influences in my life. And so it statistically happens that many of such people are of lower social strata, so I tend to be more guarded and evasive around them. If I'm reassured you're not gonna gank me (or worse), then I'll engage.

There were times I've spent waiting for a bus or walking somewhere and keeping the conversation with a crazy homeless lady or similar folks in the instances where many others turned away from them or evaded them to the opposite side of the street, etc. I appreciated their unique perspective on the world. Sometimes the experience was exhilarating or refreshing in some way.

I agree with that. I don't exclude because of perceived class, but I do have anxiety issues and am cautious of boundary violation because I'm not particularly good at removing intruders. I feel like I could be an easy mark if I were not vigilant in unknown situations.

But if I feel like I have a retreat position from an exchange in case things go badly, then I'm very accessible. It's not the specific person, it's just the ambiguity and fear of boundary loss. If I don't feel like you're gonna gank me (or worse), then I'm open.

 

[WALKYRIA]

The members of hypothetical 'better society' are usually the actual 'low-lifes' in practice once you crack the surface.

Agree man.

It's because we are the most laid back personality type; combined with the most logical. It makes for some mad features.
We want to be competent and possibly succesful, but at the same time we are aware that our competence doesn't mean we are globally better than anyone... Unlogical- or actually immature- people assume that their job or success in life are a proxy for their overall quality as humans. We try to not do that and we usually don't like people who do that. In one way, it's a way for "succesful" INTPs to keep perspective and to stay down to earth.
I guess it's a bit like a badge of honor. Education, money, a status, a big car ... will never completely compensate/ erase the fact that you'r a shitty/ insecure/stuck-up/dick-head/ unattractive/mean person...
I used to have a theory: Education is for people who need to compensate somehow, the more they get education, the more the people initially felt insecure.
For me atleast it was somehow true, I needed to prove to myself certain things and to fill in a certain void..


I know some INFPs and they usually can be like that too but in different ways...
So yeah, I prefer to hang out with the Low-lives... mainly because of the lack of pretense but also because I don't like to hang out with uncool people and succesful people are usually not very cool( because always concerned with the status) . I also empathize with them because I feel like they are unlucky verisons of me... I could have been them if the environment and life circumstances were different. The very best people of course are the ultra cool high-achievers though; they are the best of both worlds.

 

[DIALECTIC]

An observation about INTP's (based on my small sample size) is that "intellectual redneck" seems to be an apt description. One is our apparent affinity for slumming. We seem happy to hang out with low life type characters, actually preferring them to better society.

Two is a fascination with Redneck culture. An INTP friend of mine is; I've always enjoyed watching blue collar reality TV shows, and my INTP son loves playing games with those types of characters. All three of us (four if you include another INTP friend) love to imitate and joke about them too.

Finally, reading these boards you more often see people who hang out with drug users and dealers and so forth, rather than ones who hang out with the 'better' parts of society. INTJ's would be a close type I'd put there.

My guess is that it's the Se 'Trickster' in our shadow stack. If so then INFP's would share the affinity. Thoughts?

I hanged out with "low lifes" most of my life.
Also i have always been sexually attracted to "low life" girls, you know the type who wear short skirts and just looks naughty / up for anything...

Now, i know better... I stay way from low lifes AND fake people but i do see what you mean, because if i had to choose, id rather hang out with low lifes because they usually settle for little in life, just like me.

In fact, a lot of famous IxTPs over the centuries seem to have been attracted by "inferior" women... Probably cos such women are a lot more genuine and gave them the emotional support they needed and lacked while they were young ? What do you think ?

 

[WALKYRIA]

In fact, a lot of famous IxTPs over the centuries seem to have been attracted by "inferior" women... Probably cos such women are a lot more genuine and gave them the emotional support they needed and lacked while they were young ? What do you think ?

Lol seriously, why do INTPs date ugly girls? I never understood that... Check out the Albert Einstein wife, or the Lincoln's wife. Ugly and angry wives. The craziest thing is that they fought all the time. I heard that because INTP are bad at dating, they usually settle for the first arrived...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...ct-NO-affection--stop-talking-demands-it.html

 

[Jennywocky]

Lol seriously, why do INTPs date ugly girls? I never understood that... Check out the Albert Einstein wife, or the Lincoln's wife. Ugly and angry wives. The craziest thing is that they fought all the time. I heard that because INTP are bad at dating, they usually settle for the first arrived...

You know the old song....

Spoiler

Yeah, my thought is:

1. First girl that you can get along with and/or seems interesting (due to lack of desire to "date")

2. Intellectual/humor connection OR the ability to stabilize a home so that you don't need to focus on it is more important than looks.

3. Lincoln seems to have actually loved Mary Todd, but yeah, there was a lot of drama and she had emotional disturbances. Partly probably together out of familiarity / early interest, plus actually cared about her as a person and found she balanced him in some way despite the rough stuff.

4. Einstein first married a coworker (another physicist), but eventually left her for his cousin. The two relatives had already set up a correspondence, and then there was a move to Berlin while his first wife wanted to go back to Zurich, so they split up. Looks didn't seem to motivate either arrangement.

 

[Sinny91]

Meh, I hang around with 'low lifes' ... because I am one.

#420smokew33deverydayxDxD

Ha. Twat.

 

[Fukyo]

I love to watch these youtube parodies of trashy, low class people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qbv7jcvLVc

 

[Yellow]

I can see the point, loosely applied.

I think its an ambivalence to authority, hierarchy, and tradition that causes a "slumming" phenomenon. I don't think we're necessarily apt to participate in "low-life" activities, but that we aren't averse to people based purely on their statuses.

If a person describes him/herself as a "redneck", it's unlikely that I'm going to enjoy their company. Same goes for someone who claims to be wealthy, a genius, or "well read", have you ever seen that on a t-shirt? "Well Read"? It makes me physically cringe. Actually, anyone who has words on a t-shirt or on a car-sticker is unlikely to be a pleasant individual. but we give everyone that chance to surprise us.

 

[OmoInisa]

You know the old song....

Spoiler

What evils are likely to result if you do?

 

[Rainer]

Some INTPs are born into the working class. I was not, really, but I kind of fell into it after quitting college more than once. I don't usually like real hardcore rednecks, though. They tend to be bigoted, sexist, completely unwilling to admit they are ever wrong, and really insecure right underneath it all, because their subculture is not really respected by outsiders. At least that's my experience. They usually start disliking me pretty quickly for perceived slights because I don't tiptoe around people, even though I never mean anyone any harm unless they've wronged me first. Rednecks tend to be remarkably capable at fixing things and getting out of sticky situations, so even if they're very fixed in their beliefs, they can act pretty adaptably at times.

I'd rather hang out with working class urbanites though, I think.

 

[Jennywocky]

What evils are likely to result if you do?

... frankly, I have no idea.

(Aside from having guys hit on your wife all the time.)

 

[manishboy]

At first I thought you meant that "intellectual redneck" meant an intellectual type of person who had a redneckish relationship with his intellectualism--a certain careless, visceral bravado with a disdain for authority. Very funny and felt like it almost fit. But what you actually meant is dead on for me. I have a large circle of "unsavory" acquaintances and while I wouldn't say I fit into their world I at least navigate it with some ease.

But I'm always an outsider. I once light heartedly called a guy a "motherfucker" for some minor offense and that endeared me to him for years after. When we met he'd recall that pronouncement. But for me it's more the idea of him that attracts me, that there's someone out there who'd form such a bond over being called such a foul name.

Good observation

 

[Andronas]

OP has actually made a pretty accurate observation of INTPs in my opinion. In my own life, I have a tendency to be drawn to low life types, dive bars, and occasionally rather seedy places. I realize that it's probably not the healthiest thing for me to like, but the desire still exists at times. Perhaps it has something to do with being able to identify with that part of society due to childhood experiences. In my own life, I didn't grow up on the better side of society. Often, I have a hard time imagining what it's like to be part of that life. Essentially, we usually go with what we know. Perhaps it isn't totally related to type, but to some degree socioeconomic origin.

 

[JimJambones]

Right on. I was born into a working class family, but I'm presently a knowledge worker. I consider myself democratic in outlook and don't think anyone is any better than anyone else. I dislike aristocracy, hierarchy, elitism, and other pretentious bullshit. I seem to mesh well with working class people who are not too rowdy, but like to chill and enjoy life a little....and have a good sense of humor. My working class homies know me as "the smart one" that likes to chat about various phenomenon.

 

[JimJambones]

I did want to add, and I didn't know if other INTPs agreed, but I didn't really fit in well in college. I know many young adults from working class families have difficulty transitioning into college, but I found myself surrounded by a bunch of young adults that were from very different family environments, few of which I ended up being friends with. I ended up being friends mostly with other students from similar family environments and locals I worked with. I was sometimes snubbed by teachers and fellow students, but mostly ignored. I wasn't too upset about it, just made the experience more isolating.

But I was a mega slacker star in college, which is nothing to brag about. This may be one of the reasons I was ignored. I skipped class all the time, showed up late, only studied the night before or the day of the exam, didn't do my fair share on group projects(I really disliked group assignments because we were forced to do them). I would take difficult classes just because I thought they were interesting and weren't concerned with my grade as much. I sucked ass.

 

[Andronas]

I did want to add, and I didn't know if other INTPs agreed, but I didn't really fit in well in college. I know many young adults from working class families have difficulty transitioning into college, but I found myself surrounded by a bunch of young adults that were from very different family environments, few of which I ended up being friends with. I ended up being friends mostly with other students from similar family environments and locals I worked with. I was sometimes snubbed by teachers and fellow students, but mostly ignored. I wasn't too upset about it, just made the experience more isolating.

But I was a mega slacker star in college, which is nothing to brag about. This may be one of the reasons I was ignored. I skipped class all the time, showed up late, only studied the night before or the day of the exam, didn't do my fair share on group projects(I really disliked group assignments because we were forced to do them). I would take difficult classes just because I thought they were interesting and weren't concerned with my grade as much. I sucked ass.

I'm not as much of a slacker as you were in college. In fact, I've had to learn to accept more average grades than I had at community college. That took time and some moderate failure before I finally relaxed a bit. I've been resting the past couple weeks to regain some strength. It doesn't help that I came down with a cold as the seasons were changing.

I identify with what you said about other students ignoring you. I've tried to make some friends, but I usually end up ignored. Perhaps it's because I'm a bit different from most people in the Bible belt, which is where my school is and where I'm from. People in the South are also generally not that welcoming of new people. Thankfully, I've found one or two intimate connections here and there along with one or two friends I can have a real conversation with. All of these people are real people in the sense that they've all been through a lot and have really complex histories. Maybe that's the key to finding people to relate to. You have to find someone whose history mirrors your own in some respect.

Teachers usually like me well enough. I'm not sure why entirely. They don't show favoritism, but they tend to react well.

 

[JimJambones]

I'm not as much of a slacker as you were in college. In fact, I've had to learn to accept more average grades than I had at community college. That took time and some moderate failure before I finally relaxed a bit. I've been resting the past couple weeks to regain some strength. It doesn't help that I came down with a cold as the seasons were changing.

I identify with what you said about other students ignoring you. I've tried to make some friends, but I usually end up ignored. Perhaps it's because I'm a bit different from most people in the Bible belt, which is where my school is and where I'm from. People in the South are also generally not that welcoming of new people. Thankfully, I've found one or two intimate connections here and there along with one or two friends I can have a real conversation with. All of these people are real people in the sense that they've all been through a lot and have really complex histories. Maybe that's the key to finding people to relate to. You have to find someone whose history mirrors your own in some respect.

Teachers usually like me well enough. I'm not sure why entirely. They don't show favoritism, but they tend to react well.

Thanks! Well, I had average grades. If I didn't slack I could've done better. I think I would be a better student if I ever decide to go back to school.

 

[EditorOne]

"In fact, a lot of famous IxTPs over the centuries seem to have been attracted by "inferior" women... Probably cos such women are a lot more genuine and gave them the emotional support they needed and lacked while they were young ? What do you think ?"

Or is it all because we reason that less attractive people, in any context from physical or economic, are less likely to reject us because we think they'd be grateful for any attention? We have, after all, spent X years being misunderstood, patronized, questioned, and disdained. Do we sooner or later just start looking for people who are also perceived to be defective in some respect by the Buffy-and-Biff Barbie dolls, the unselfaware sensors and the privileged out there?

Just throwing a darker shadow out there.

 

[Andronas]

"In fact, a lot of famous IxTPs over the centuries seem to have been attracted by "inferior" women... Probably cos such women are a lot more genuine and gave them the emotional support they needed and lacked while they were young ? What do you think ?"

Or is it all because we reason that less attractive people, in any context from physical or economic, are less likely to reject us because we think they'd be grateful for any attention? We have, after all, spent X years being misunderstood, patronized, questioned, and disdained. Do we sooner or later just start looking for people who are also perceived to be defective in some respect by the Buffy-and-Biff Barbie dolls, the unselfaware sensors and the privileged out there?

Just throwing a darker shadow out there.

It could be that their judgments were subjective. It could be that the women they valued as superior were judged only by others as inferior. Some of the men I have been interested in over the years have been judged as ugly by my friends. It's strange, because I often don't feel attracted to the people who seem to be the most physically perfect of individuals. If a body is too sculpted, the skin too fair, etc., I tend to lack a sexual interest in someone. I'm not entirely sure why. Maybe I'm just allergic to perfection. In spite of how much this is said, it might be true that beauty really is in the eye of the beholder.

This is also one reason why I refuse to adhere to the concept of league in the context of dating. If I'm interested in someone and feel like approaching, I will.

 

[EditorOne]

All that "could be."

I'm personally of the opinion that we are surprisingly vulnerable to pheromones, and that there is sometimes no reason at all behind who we find attractive, just chemicals.

 

[Andronas]

All that "could be."

I'm personally of the opinion that we are surprisingly vulnerable to pheromones, and that there is sometimes no reason at all behind who we find attractive, just chemicals.

That doesn't sound too hard to believe, honestly. It would explain why I have no single "type" of guy I find myself attracted to.

 

[ENTP lurker]

That is bit of schizotypal. Lot's of Ne can be attributed to this condition. Total disregard of (Se) status and therefore I think this is most prominent in INxP. You can also look past Si which I do not do when I realize that I'm not comfortable.

 

[Andronas]

That is bit of schizotypal. Lot's of Ne can be attributed to this condition. Total disregard of (Se) status and therefore I think this is most prominent in INxP. You can also look past Si which I do not do when I realize that I'm not comfortable.

When you say "that," what are you referring to? "That" what? Use this and that as adjectives, not as pronouns. Increases clarity.