INTP and the others

[KookooKachu]

To tell you the truth knowing your INTP seems to have limited everyone. Reading a handful of threads I keep seeing the same thing. Comforting one another on how INTP can suck and can't. Has anyone ever considered that you can be social, you can be a party animal, you can put yourself on center stage as long as you climb out of the hole? Accessing the other personallities is a challenge and everyone here seems to like challenges but I think i've seen only one person on here access it.

Here is your questions. Why would the only thing you do is complain? Why would you let yourself loath in emotional challenges? Why won't you find a way to work with your desires and mental blocks?

:]

 

[Jordan~]

Uhm, who's complaining? The vast majority of us are happy to be introverted. We don't want to be party animals, or have a large group of friends, or be active and outgoing etc.. If you don't feel this way, it's possible that you took the test wrong or that rather than an introvert, you're a suppressed extravert. The test asks what you prefer when asking about introversion vs. extraversion - "Do you prefer being alone or with a small group of friends, or being at a party?" - or it asks what effect social situations have on you - "Does socialising energise you, or exhaust you?"

Who is complaining? Not an INTP, we enjoy our introversion. Who is, uh, "loath[ing] in emotional challenges"? Yes, we have a great deal of inner emotional trouble (many of us), but we deal with it just as other people deal with their problems - not every type has the brilliance of an INTP mind. What desires and "mental blocks" do we express that are in opposition to our personalities?

Be less vague, more specific. I, for one, would not change who I am for the world.

 

[KookooKachu]

I am by no means extravert. Don't jump the gun. Though I am glad you asked me to be more specific. Lets see, I've noticed alot of INTP's sit and watch the social bunch of people. They want to fit in and not always be left out. Alright then fit in how you think its possible.

By the way you seem to be rather offended by this, just so you know. Anyways inner emotional trouble is easily fixed but INTP's seem to get it alot(Also INTP's aren't the only brilliant minds out there) an example would be the struggle to show the emotion like to help a friend. That also goes in as a mental block but INTP's should be smart right? Why can they get past themselves and adjust all comforts to help one person? Or to talk to someone easily?

 

[Jordan~]

What INTP wants to fit in? That does not sound like an INTP trait at all. Go and look at the thread about being liked - most of us say we don't care what people think about us, save for the few people we respect.

I am somewhat offended, I dislike this attitude - you speak as if there's something wrong with being an INTP that needs to be changed or cured.

Perhaps we're not the only brilliant minds, but we're arguably the most brilliant. I've seen Einstein, Jung, Newton, Hawking and others of equal academic merit called INTP. Our ability to quickly grasp big ideas, and our tendency to think deeply for long periods of time, give us something of an advantage in academia.

Look at the thread on friends, also. We like friends who understand us and won't assume that we're heartless and uncaring because we don't show or understand much emotion.

You're as well to ask, "Why don't INTPs make a huge pile of small pebbles, then knock it all down?" We have no desire to do so. I'm not particularly bothered by the fact that small talk doesn't come naturally to me. Put me into a serious conversation about something that isn't trivial and irrelevant and I'll flourish. INTPs are said to be devoted in love, and while I've never actually been in love, I imagine that would involve being somewhat selfless towards the beloved. We can go out of our way to help people when we want to.

Basically, your question is "Why don't INTPs change who they are?"
The answer is, "There is no reason to."

 

[Dissident]

Totally with you Jordan, most of those are choices, introverted doesnt mean shy, its not like we would love to go to the parties and drink till we pass out while chit-chating with shallow people... but we are not "brave" enough to do it; we do-not-want-that. Second, all types have weak points, you cant tell someone to just get over them like that, go tell an F to think through what they are doing for once, or tell an SJ to stop being so over-structured, etc. Developing lower functions is something that is supposed to happen as you get older, there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[loveofreason]

To tell you the truth knowing your INTP seems to have limited everyone. Reading a handful of threads I keep seeing the same thing. Comforting one another on how INTP can suck and can't. Has anyone ever considered that you can be social, you can be a party animal, you can put yourself on center stage as long as you climb out of the hole? Accessing the other personallities is a challenge and everyone here seems to like challenges but I think i've seen only one person on here access it.

Here is your questions. Why would the only thing you do is complain? Why would you let yourself loath in emotional challenges? Why won't you find a way to work with your desires and mental blocks?

:]

That's a fair call and deserves examination.

What you're seeing here are people by and large suddenly free to talk openly and be understood.

That is somewhat of a novelty for most of us.

Comparing notes is an important part of a larger process - a process of correction that will see the pendulum swing from social ostracism/isolation (in the outside world) to emphasized conformity to type here (with the new found sense of belonging). That INTPs have, among other things, gripes to compare is merely a function of our 'outsider' standing in the cultures we inhabit. Yes, even the eccentrics can take delight in finding similarities.

Many of us have a prediliction for tinkering with our own psychology. Most people here will, sooner or later, experience the challenges you promote, if they haven't already. We can only respect individual timing and recognise this place for what it is - a cultural decompression chamber.

 

[murkrow]

This forum has a high rate of self revelation.

Much higher than other INTP forums. (like INTPcentral where it's basically just a big mess of unrealized ideas smashing into each other. It's like a big pus filled INTP circle jerk.)

Get a group of people together sharing ideas in a comfortable environment and they will reveal their problems. Get a bunch of similar people together and they will reveal similar problems.

I could gripe for hours about the negative sides of being an ENTJ (or any topic really) but no one here would be able to relate.

 

[fullerene]

yep, sorry buddy, I'm with everyone else here (unsurprisingly). This place has a great many qualities that attract us (or at least me) to it.

And you're right, INTPs are not the only brilliant minds out there. I have an ESFP friend who I'm pretty sure is smarter than me, in fact. The difference between us though is that his emotions are very heavily influenced by what's going on around him. If he's alone and sad about something and someone says hey, his emotions immediately shift to the "all is well" mentality before he even turns to respond. My first instinct, on the other hand, is to get frustrated at the clash in feelings. I would suspect that if he listened to a cheerful song when upset it would influence his mood. I know that when I listen to a cheerful song when upset it grates on my nerves until I change it to something more fitting.

Our emotional challenges do change and heal. They just don't do it quite as easily, and it usually takes work because we can't drown them out with external stimuli--nor would we want to. I can tell you right now that I'm always at peace regardless of mood, and the types of sadness and depression I've had are types that made me know that sadness and depression were meant to be. At the moment I'm quite happy actually... and that's been my overall mood for about a month and a half or two. I don't know how long it will last... but it came after 5 years of working through miserable things that would distress anyone who's half-honest with themselves. I think INTPs have emotional struggles and "loath in them" longer not because of raw brainpower, but because of fixed emotions and objectivity. I do believe that it's an INTP trait to demand the truth in all situations--hense the observer image--and the truth when it comes to yourself is never pallatable. The reason it looks like we loathe in them is because we grew up using our minds to make sense of things. It's uncommon that some mystery of the world doesn't open itself to us with enough examination, so it's only natural that we deal with emotions in the same way... think about them, bounce ideas off of each other, and try to make sense of them. Since, like it's been noted, not many people understand us, a lot of our ideas about internal struggles and stuff come off in the forums here.

 

[Ogion]

I agree with the overall opinion about this. Much more concerned or say annoyed i am with the brilliancy-thing. You know, i always think i may know too little. I doubt my competency, but then, in something like an exam, i just know the things and it's easy. The thing is, i always have the feeling i know less than i actually know. That is something that really annoys me.
Not being so sociable or having no big groups of aquaintances or not going to parties, well that is not important to me. Actually, i like it that way. It is much more like being repelled from parties and wanting it that way. I see that as a good thing.

Ogion

 

[Jordan~]

And hey, I get the best of both worlds: invited to parties and choosing not to go!

 

[amccall]

Anyways inner emotional trouble is easily fixed but INTP's seem to get it alot(Also INTP's aren't the only brilliant minds out there)

How is inner emotional trouble 'fixed' and how is it done 'easily'? Will you answer with "medication"? "Talking about your feelings"? "Seeing a shrink?" I am guessing you've never had any true deep disturbing inner turmoil to make such a callous statement.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Okay lets lay off kookookachu, he (I guessing) seems to have confused us with failed extroverts. This is a fairly easy mistake to make, as we introverts often assume extroverts are stupid and shallow they assume were all angsty emo's (for lack of a better description).

Now although I admit I do have an above average IQ, I do make a considerable effort to stay humble. I'm lazy, and I hate to admit it, but it just goes to show that where we gain in one respect we lose in another. This goes both ways of course.

kookookachu don't be afraid to tell us what you are, we're far more accepting of people that we have some way to understand. For now I'm assuming that your an ENFJ, or at least an EJ of some description.

@-amccall
Time and talk are the best remedies for stabilizing a mind; eventually you deal with something or you bury it so deep that you forget it. Shrinks are overpaid egotistical satiations and mind altering intoxicants (medical or otherwise) are a poor quick fix at best.

 

[James Black]

Now although I admit I do have an above average IQ, I do make a considerable effort to stay humble. I'm lazy, and I hate to admit it, but it just goes to show that where we gain in one respect we lose in another. This goes both ways of course.

Posts like this are exactly what make me enjoy this forum (Despite having just joined) and what makes me feel at home, not like "I'm the only humble, intelligent, lazy person." I know obviously I'm not, but I don't much desire conversation and therefore don't put myself in the situation to meet new people much. Granted, I meet new people often, but not as often as say, an SF counterpart.

As for the main idea of this thread, I will say that yes, there is one thing that has changed a bit since learning I'm an INTP. I know that being extremely lazy and uninterested in certain subjects at school simply because "I already know this, and it's boring," or "I know I know this, why should I prove to anyone else that I know it?" isn't some random little quirk I have, or a fluke I had in my High School years. It's part of who I am, it's something I'll probably always feel, and I'll have to realize that, and work against the mixture of uninterest, apathy, and procrastination, to get done what I need to get done.

 

[IntenseBurger]

Poor little KooKooKachu...

 

[Ermine]

To the TS: While I will give you that we, as humans, are social animals, but I don't need a lot of people. Just a couple good friends and I'm more than satisfied. I don't want a lot of friends, or to be invited to lots of parties. I actually chuckle at the people stuck in that mess and wonder how they pull it off with a smile on their face. I love being me except for the emotional downsides.

 

[ElectricWizard]

Yes, being an extrovert would be easier, and we realize that, and perhaps think of it occasionally when we have the misfortune of being stuck in some large crowd. It's an extrovert dominated world, and since there aren't that many of us, we're often expected to be social, and sometimes seen as 'strange' for not being so. It would obviously take a while to get used to that, especially as a teenager, when you would usually be quite self-conscious.
However, once we get used to it, most of us seem to realize that extroversion is overrated, and be glad for what we are.

 

[Thomas Young]

I've taken the INTP test a few times and been given the result - INTP. But I enjoy going out on the pull having learned some techniques on how to approach woman in particular, assuming rapport with peole etc. C'mon guys, being an INTP hinders our pulling power with hot women does it not? So learning a few things on how to be a little more expressive towards women helps us to get the birds we want right. Saying that tho, I've needed the aid of alcohol to get me in the mood. haha.

 

[Freddeh]

I only try to be social and overcome my lack for small talk and stuff like that when i see a lady i am really interesting in.
This isn't really the need to be social, but more the need to feed my curiosity about this certain person.
But even then when i start talking with the person and i find out that she is only in for small talk (which happens with most people) the conversations ends quickly and so does the curiosity.
When it happens the other way around it is even hard for me to try to be as social as an extrovert would be, and i often pass on that except if deep down i got interested a bit.

With other words i know and accept the fact i am not extrovert, and i know that following the advice of extrovert people (being social) does not satisfy me in any honest way.
That doesn't mean i am "evading" a easy fix of my inner problems, it's just the way i am and will stay whatever i try, and i have peace with that because staying that way makes me feel at ease and not doubt the person i am trying to be.

 

[grey matters]

without trying to sound poetic I would compare this forum to a comfortable family room. We can come in after a hard days work, sit down in front of the tv with our chips and beer and put our feet up on the coffee table. We can burp and fart and scratch ourselves (for those who choose to do these things) and do the things that come naturally to us without having to think about manners. Asking us to be warm and sensitive and have a more normal sense of humor is like asking us to clean up the house because company is coming over.
Everyone needs a comfortable family room to hang out in.

 

[Decaf]

C'mon guys, being an INTP hinders our pulling power with hot women does it not?

I think one of the problems we have that hamstrings us beyond our hesitance in approaching someone we don't know is our "truth obsession". We are very curious people who want to know the truth behind the observations we make. Because of that focus we've gotten pretty good at it and are often able to determine someone's motivation given enough interaction. The consequence is that we pay attention to people "too well". The dating scene is full of insecure people pretending to be people they think others will find attractive and our intensity of curiosity is off-putting. They suspect we will see through their disguise and abort rather than risk being found out.

There are three types of people that are not afraid of INTPs. People who are secure in themselves, people who feel the need to be honest and open and people you get to know non-socially first who figure out that our curiosity is nothing to be afraid of.

Alcohol is the dating-scene INTPs best friend, not because it makes their targets more willing, but because it makes the INTP less intense. Less curious, or at least less interested in the absolute truth. Rather than carefully scrutinizing each piece of data we let your extraverted intuition fill in the details as we would like them to be and go with the flow. This makes people much more comfortable because we become infinitely accepting, if still a little eccentric.

 

[EditorOne]

I think one of the problems we have that hamstrings us beyond our hesitance in approaching someone we don't know is our "truth obsession". We are very curious people who want to know the truth behind the observations we make. Because of that focus we've gotten pretty good at it and are often able to determine someone's motivation given enough interaction. The consequence is that we pay attention to people "too well". The dating scene is full of insecure people pretending to be people they think others will find attractive and our intensity of curiosity is off-putting. They suspect we will see through their disguise and abort rather than risk being found out.

There are three types of people that are not afraid of INTPs. People who are secure in themselves, people who feel the need to be honest and open and people you get to know non-socially first who figure out that our curiosity is nothing to be afraid of.

Alcohol is the dating-scene INTPs best friend, not because it makes their targets more willing, but because it makes the INTP less intense. Less curious, or at least less interested in the absolute truth. Rather than carefully scrutinizing each piece of data we let your extraverted intuition fill in the details as we would like them to be and go with the flow. This makes people much more comfortable because we become infinitely accepting, if still a little eccentric.

A lot of insight there, great post.

As to the original question that started the thread: It is indeed good to have a place to go where you stand a better than average chance of everyone else knowing exactly, exactly what you're talking about, and therefore it is simply logical that we would talk here about issues and subjects that remain inscrutable to most of those we come into contact with day to day. Like people who all grew up in houses that had identical floor plans or something. The architecture of our personality is "standard" in here and "anomalous" in the mundane world. We're at our version of Hogwarts. :-)

 

[Artifice Orisit]

The part of me that wants world peace wishes that everyone was an INTP; our thinking and perception functions make us very accepting. Some of the topics discussed on this forum would never be discussed in public for fear of a negative response. But here people don't judge, they rationalise and discuss with total disregard for emotionally based conflict.
However if everyone was an INTP I'd have no rational excuse to think I'm "special", being part of an uncommon classification. So I must admit I don't want that kind of world peace after all, damn I'm selfish.

@-EditorOne
Regarding Hogwarts, magic and so forth. The stereotypical aspects of a wizard are amazing similar to the profile of an INTP; perhaps this is the modern equivalent of a wizard’s council? Psychologically at least.

 

[Aurora]

But I think I am mostly INTP, and I do like having social interaction. Even though I naturally tend to want to do what is safe and easy and comfortable (which is staying in my room by myself), I also realize that I get depressed when I'm alone too much. I feel normal and happy when I'm with other people, and afterwards when I'm alone again I feel good that I interacted with people. I feel like the more people you talk to and interact with, the more you learn and the broader your worldview becomes. It's all a part of becoming a more knowledgable and interesting person. So even though I have to make a conscious effort to put myself out there and be with other people, I do it because I know that I'll feel good about myself during and after.

 

[Jordan~]

See, I feel quite differently, but it depends on the person. When I'm in a bad mood I don't want to talk to anyone at all, and all the hidden motives and political movement and generally having to deal with immature people pisses me off a lot.

 

[eudemonia]

For me the worst thing about being INTP is gradually, over the years learning how to fit in. Not that I ever wanted to. When I was younger, I was outrageously rude and challenging. Its just that, over the years, mediocrity - the INTPs nemesis - slowly creeps up on you. I recognise totally Decaf's comments about intensity. Having been in all sorts of spats because of that you learn that you have to tone yourself down. Then when you have kids you 'fit in' because your kids need you to.

For me, gradually, on the outside I become a skilled (but rather grey) ENFP but inside my head was making me depressed - all that distorted, suppressed thinking - all those coffee mornings and shoe conversations. When I found this forum I felt free for the first time to be direct, rude, challenging and, yes, intense. Also I found the opportunity to develop the more stunted parts of my personality e.g. my humour. Stunted because I had spent my whole life being intense and ignoring the attractions of pure fun.

 

[Thomas Young]

I know what you mean, I sometimes think INTP's are the new breed the beginning of something wonderful happening to the human race like a new era/stage in human spiritual development. Check it out: Introverted (inner thinking, which is the basis of meditation) we seek truth, the basis of everything! We are the first of many to come I think. I wonder does anyone know if there are more INTP's now then ever before?

 

[grey matters]

One thing that is nice being around other NT types is that it is easier to share our thoughts and ideas. Not only our thoughts apreciated but they are also understood. I have noticed that a lot of INTP's have great ideas but are not very good at communicating those ideas. this complicated by the fact that few people care about the things we care about leads to a feeling not unlike shouting into a bottle.

 

[ChaosTheory]

For me, I like going to small parties and having fun. I'm not someone who wants to go to huge house parties and get out of hand.

I became more confident and got more friends in the first two years of high school. I realized if you are calm and humorous, you can pretty much be on everyone's good side at school and have fun. This led me to going to more parties, experimenting with some things, nothing real bad, though.

Even though I'm more confident, I have never really felt like there was anyone else in my life that was INTP like me. There was no one that I could really share everything with. My one friend is close, but there's a wall between us. It's weird.

 

[Agent Intellect]

its strange to me that people can't be interested in... well, interesting topics. i brought one of the topics from the philosophy forum up to my friend, talked about it at him for a few minutes and when i was through explaining, he pretty much just said "so what?" and that he'd probably just forget everything i said in a couple minutes. i guess talking about other people is more interesting to some.

 

[Dissident]

Great minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people.

-Eleanor Roosevelt

 

[Agent Intellect]

Great minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people.

-Eleanor Roosevelt

i've heard that before. i didn't know Eleanor Roosevelt said it though.

 

[fullerene]

I'm amazed you could bring up a topic for conversation. I still have to have the other person say something at least a little related before I'll put myself out there like that at all.

 

[Agent Intellect]

I'm amazed you could bring up a topic for conversation. I still have to have the other person say something at least a little related before I'll put myself out there like that at all.

most of the time i do too, and i've become pretty good at steering a conversation into a direction that i can segway into something interesting (at least in 1-on-1 conversations anyway)

 

[Decaf]

I'm amazed you could bring up a topic for conversation. I still have to have the other person say something at least a little related before I'll put myself out there like that at all.

Ugh... I steer all my conversations to personality type theory. Its awful because instead of having the opportunity to share I've developed a reputation for talking about "that crackpot theory" (fortunately not to everyone though). I swear the steering is unintentional though.

 

[ElectricWizard]

Congratulations, you're unique, even for an INTP!

 

[grey matters]

its strange to me that people can't be interested in... well, interesting topics. i brought one of the topics from the philosophy forum up to my friend, talked about it at him for a few minutes and when i was through explaining, he pretty much just said "so what?" and that he'd probably just forget everything i said in a couple minutes. i guess talking about other people is more interesting to some.

All to often I get blank stares when I bring up an interesting, complicated, and often theoretical topic. It's as if I was talking to a mentally retarded person. sometimes I piss people off because the other person can't seem to discuss things in the hypothetical. They are too programed by their political, social or religious beliefs to distance themselves from these programs and think differently, if even for a while.

 

[Agent Intellect]

people are so fucking stupid. they can have their bullshit topics because i don't fucking care. i hope they keep their obtuse points of view until they die so they can lead meaningless lives and die with nothing to show for it. i only wish i could laugh at all the smug assholes who think theres actually an afterlife when they die.

 

[Ermine]

Shout club much?

I'm also really frustrated at people who strive for mediocrity, the ones that give me weird looks for saying anything out of the ordinary.

 

[fullerene]

nah don' worry about it, he's just drunk. And I thought that when I first read this, before I saw the two other threads where he actually said he was drunk

 

[Kuu]

I think one of the problems we have that hamstrings us beyond our hesitance in approaching someone we don't know is our "truth obsession". We are very curious people who want to know the truth behind the observations we make. Because of that focus we've gotten pretty good at it and are often able to determine someone's motivation given enough interaction. The consequence is that we pay attention to people "too well". The dating scene is full of insecure people pretending to be people they think others will find attractive and our intensity of curiosity is off-putting. They suspect we will see through their disguise and abort rather than risk being found out.

There are three types of people that are not afraid of INTPs. People who are secure in themselves, people who feel the need to be honest and open and people you get to know non-socially first who figure out that our curiosity is nothing to be afraid of.

Alcohol is the dating-scene INTPs best friend, not because it makes their targets more willing, but because it makes the INTP less intense. Less curious, or at least less interested in the absolute truth. Rather than carefully scrutinizing each piece of data we let your extraverted intuition fill in the details as we would like them to be and go with the flow. This makes people much more comfortable because we become infinitely accepting, if still a little eccentric.

So true. I've been called "intense", many times, never in a positive way. Intense is definitely the word. I need an intense woman that can take and challenge my intensity...

I know what you mean, I sometimes think INTP's are the new breed the beginning of something wonderful happening to the human race like a new era/stage in human spiritual development. Check it out: Introverted (inner thinking, which is the basis of meditation) we seek truth, the basis of everything! We are the first of many to come I think. I wonder does anyone know if there are more INTP's now then ever before?

I don't know if there are more INTPs, but I think that with the whole technocraze and consumerism/production oriented societies and globalized culture... the hostility towards the intp personality is at an all time historic high. May the flying spaghetti monster bless the internet!

All to often I get blank stares when I bring up an interesting, complicated, and often theoretical topic. It's as if I was talking to a mentally retarded person. sometimes I piss people off because the other person can't seem to discuss things in the hypothetical. They are too programed by their political, social or religious beliefs to distance themselves from these programs and think differently, if even for a while.

Yeah. It truly takes a saint's patience to deal with some people... I sometimes just, end up all angry and exasperated.

 

[Agent Intellect]

nah don' worry about it, he's just drunk. And I thought that when I first read this, before I saw the two other threads where he actually said he was drunk

lol yeah, sorry about that. i barely remember posting that

 

[myexplodingcat]

Whoever posted this is not an INTP. Alone doesn't mean lonely, and most of us (including me!) love being INTPs. I can't imagine being any other type--they don't appeal to me at all.

Try again. If you're really an INTP, I'm a polka-dotted walrus with angel fairy wings.