INTJ or INTP: How did you know?

[Tenacity]

How did you know you were INTJ versus INTP, or how did you know you were INTP versus INTJ?

Spoiler

So, I've been reflecting a lot. I'm still trying to figure out whether or not I'm definitively INTJ, but I'm almost sure that I am. I very much suspect I wasn't even allowed to be an INTJ for decades because people expected me to be ESFP all my life. Every single person around me, ever, even family and "friends", but definitely the workplace.

So, I adapted, but I'm frankly tired of it.

Some of my family is ESFJ and that is possibly in part why I've had to just keep doing things that led me to be hyper-aware of short term goal setting, which I rejected. Then I thought I was INTP. I might still be INTP, I've identified with it for so long, and I like some people here. Yet as I developed, everything I've done independently of ESFJ influence was very ENTJ. I never needed anyone to get things done, but because I was highly regarded for my knowledge base I literally influenced the teams I managed from basic to advanced knowledge of X. It would seem that an ESTJ would just try and displace the entire team at a second's notice of changes in quarterly earnings, making false correlations due to lack of analysis. Sure, blame the team, not the holes in the business model (sarcasm). I saw underneath and beyond that kind of short term movement. And for that reason I really don't much identify with ENTJs as I'm very much not "commanding" by nature and I don't actually care about money the way the average ENTJs typically do in the way where it seems to be defining of their strengths. I also naturally self-reflect much more than the typical ENTJ. The ENTJ stereotype assumes that commanding leads to feeling nothing when people are are left to misfortune. I do not feel that way at all. There is some stereotype that you have to be heartless to lead at the top, and I'm living proof that that isn't true, and I've proved it to myself and others.

I known for a fact I've been ENTJ-esque in my career choices, but I also know definitively how introverted I am.

So, the only thing left seems to be INTJ.

I'm starting to see that I'm not wrong for being myself.

People just expect me to fit this harshly delineated mold.

There is close to nothing in terms of information on INTJ women that helps me put the pieces together in a clear way. Anyone who writes about INTJ seems to rarely be INTJ themselves, which makes things even harder to trust validity.

Also, most of INTJ literature appears to be written and deeply analyzed by men and finding relatable examples is difficult.

So, yeah, honestly I feel truly alone.

I don't even fit the stereotype of INTJs, but, eh, I think @washti threw me off since when I first joined because his first contact with me was so odd to me beyond my comprehension lol.

I guess I can settle with "burnt out INTJ" + "over-ambitious INTP" for now.

 

[washti]

Lol.
After Minued wrote in your "Any female INTPs here?" thread:

Welcome to the forum. If you get any immediate private messages after stating you're a woman, you should probably ignore them.

Not only that, you should spit in that man’s face

Pretty much. Some men are very thirsty and will message anything that seems female and single. They also come with a lot of issues.

If you sent her a PM, that's what young people these days would call a red flag. It means you're desperate.

I somehow felt a strong urgency to send you something...
So same day I send you PM titled "Hi, just wanna send you something"
plus this photo and some nonsense:

The fact that you were unable to connect these two proves rather undeveloped intuition.

However, there is possibility that you will find some ppl here who will be more generous with the glorious label of intj.
Like they may point to similarities with assumed INTJ ProxyAmenRa, who used to emphasize his talents and successes which resemblance your way of doing this.

For me, you are strong Fe. The rest stays mysterious.

 

[Cognisant]

Long stream-of-consciousness posts are very INTP, wondering about your type is very INTP, you're an INTP.

You may be more or less balanced than other people here but they are also INTPs, there's a lot of variation in the type.

 

[Tenacity]

plus this photo and some nonsense:

The "nonsense" was unfortunately borderline offensive. I sense you didn't mean it that way. I don't want to have to explain this. Drama is unnecessary and a waste of time.

Highly doubt anyone would be pleased by it. Frankly an "S" would not respond at all. I tried to be friendly. I have 80%+ NT and have been that way my entire life. My "S" is my weakness. And, an "S" would have been more threatened by a random photo of an anteater and then subsequent "nonsense" unless they were bored and very open minded.

Maybe a cultural thing that Americans really don't think that's a normal way to introduce yourself to someone. Lol.

The fact that you were unable to connect these two proves rather undeveloped intuition.

Lmao. Okay:

I've only interacted with you on ~two occasions, one of two which were abnormal to me.

You don't know me. I'm extremely high NT. Yet, I don't require your judgment on that matter. Any American would argue against your definition of my intuition.

Here is an example of an "S" who frankly I am very far from.


What you really mean is underdeveloped sensing.

All that said, I am open minded. At the end of the day, I appreciated the point of connection you made.

 

[Tenacity]

Are there any INTJ women here?

Long stream-of-consciousness posts are very INTP, wondering about your type is very INTP, you're an INTP.

You may be more or less balanced than other people here but they are also INTPs, there's a lot of variation in the type.

Thanks for your consideration, I didn't ask about me though.
How did you arrive at whether you're INTP or INTJ?

 

[washti]

The "nonsense" was unfortunately borderline offensive. I sense you didn't mean it that way. I don't want to have to explain this. Drama is unnecessary and a waste of time.

And, an "S" would have been more threatened by a random photo of an anteater

thats not random!
its hinting on dick, FFS!
what thirsty man send to INTP womenz!

honestly i can't avoid drama now.

I must post my nonsense PM and beg for explanation WHAT WAS SO BORDERLINE OFFENSIVE ABOUT IT
DYING DYING CURIOSITY. I must know if I should be ashamed or not!
here it comes:

you can always igonore it!

 

[Tenacity]

thats not random!
its hinting on dick, FFS!
what thirsty man send to INTP womenz!

Not even going to try and explain this.

 

[washti]

thats fine. all chill. I will send you new PM, better one. hope this time you would like it.

 

[Tenacity]

@washti No. Don't do that. What you need to actually do is this: learn the art of female communication. Some INTJ men frankly dismiss this and fooled themselves into thinking they were incapable.

 

[Marbles]

I am still not sure, so I just identify as INTx. Starting to think the distinction is inconsequential, I am probably in the middle of the P/J axis. Most are, after all. I seem to remember reading that people fall along a standard distribution on all the MBTI axes.

Maybe a pure P/J test could be useful? You could probably divide P/J into myriad subscores, some of which you'd be P on, some J.

@Cognisant I had you pegged as INTJ. You're not?

 

[washti]

@Tenacity where i start then. could you be so kind and show me a bit? i feel lost, lossst, losssss

 

[Marbles]

That's a funny anteater, washti, but you are being a bit of a tool, buddy.

 

[Tenacity]

@washti Why in the world have you been conditioned to send that photo and be proud of that? How is that a thing?

 

[washti]

@Marbles
I'm not a dickhead! Just wanna converse with American lady.

 

[washti]

@washti Why in the world have you been conditioned to send that photo and be proud of that? How is that a thing?

idk, i guess i wanna be like others. send dank memes. i promise next time i will be more verbatim with my intentions. I will write you what all this means and you won't have to confuse it as abnormalities

 

[Marbles]

Oh, you slavs...

 

[Tenacity]

I will write you what all this means and you won't have to confuse it as abnormalities

Uh. Unnecessary.

 

[washti]

Its Intermarium anthem

 

[Marbles]

Congratulations on your post number pi, Ten.

 

[Cognisant]

@Cognisant I had you pegged as INTJ. You're not?

Maybe, I dunno, I think I'm more J than most people here but then again I've gone to INTJ forums and they're so boring.

Thanks for your consideration, I didn't ask about me tho

My bad, we get a lot of people who do.

 

[Ex-User (14663)]

how on earth is someone who wears french knickers presumed to be a male

 

[Marbles]

@Cognisant I had you pegged as INTJ. You're not?

Maybe, I dunno, I think I'm more J than most people here but then again I've gone to INTJ forums and they're so boring.

Yeah. This forum really exceeds my expectations. I've been wondering whether it's more about the culture that has developed here, and the people you attract, than it is about our MBTIs.

how on earth is someone who wears french knickers presumed to be a male

What a blatantly chauvinistic question..!
Minuend, help me out here...

 

[Perfectly Normal Beast]

french knickers are overly prone to bunching and so are best avoided ime

 

[Marbles]

french knickers are overly prone to bunching and so are best avoided ime

Cat Oh GIF - Cat Oh Snap - Discover & Share GIFs

Click to view the GIF

tenor.com

You gonna stand for that, washti?!

 

[Cognisant]

how on earth is someone who wears french knickers presumed to be a male

It's not a matter of practicality, sometimes a man just wants to feel sexy, not big and hairy man sexy no I mean smooth lithe and svelte sexy. Variety is the spice of life.

 

[Polaris]

^ Yeah, @washti

drop the knickers and shave the porcupine
less prickly makes 4 sexytime

 

[Marbles]

^ Yeah, @washti

drop the knickers and shave the porcupine
less prickly makes 4 sexytime

Lmao... Is that a fact, Pol? I wonder what you will get in your inbox now.

how on earth is someone who wears french knickers presumed to be a male

It's not a matter of practicality, sometimes a man just wants to feel sexy, not big and hairy man sexy no I mean smooth lithe and svelte sexy. Variety is the spice of life.

Is cross dressing big among robots? "Robotics, it makes sex swap easy!" Maybe transgenderism is a ploy from the trans-humanist lobby to make interchangeable parts politically correct.

 

[Perfectly Normal Beast]

You gonna stand for that, washti?!

are you trying to tear the forum apart? this is EXACTLY how the great knicker war of 2016 began. brother fought brother and even lovers were torn asunder in the ruthless struggle for panty supremacy. in the final battle scraps of lace and satin rained from the sky, smothering the vanquished and restoring peace and joy to our beloved home. we finally understood the importance of underwear harmony and the 2017 treaty of drawers finally embedded knicker freedom for all in our customs and laws. we no longer challenged each other to duel when differing panty preferences came to light and all agreed that even string thong advocates had the right to live in peace, free from ridicule and bloody violence

let us never forget

 

[Marbles]

I've never felt so touched and amused at the same time. I shall relinquish my wicked ways at once.

 

[Polaris]

Lmao... Is that a fact, Pol? I wonder what you will get in your inbox now.

How dare you talk about my inbox like that

 

[Marbles]

Lmao... Is that a fact, Pol? I wonder what you will get in your inbox now.

How dare you talk about my inbox like that

But it works on so many levels!

 

[Cognisant]

Is cross dressing big among robots? "Robotics, it makes sex swap easy!" Maybe transgenderism is a ploy from the trans-humanist lobby to make interchangeable parts politically correct.

"In any other circumstances you might have had a point there, except my boss is a woman, I was a chick in the forties, I hate everyone equally, and there's no one alive who can comprehend my sexual preferences." - Alucard, Hellsing the Abridged Series

I aspire to that level of not giving a fuck.

You gonna stand for that, washti?!

are you trying to tear the forum apart? this is EXACTLY how the great knicker war of 2016 began. brother fought brother and even lovers were torn asunder in the ruthless struggle for panty supremacy. in the final battle scraps of lace and satin rained from the sky, smothering the vanquished and restoring peace and joy to our beloved home. we finally understood the importance of underwear harmony and the 2017 treaty of drawers finally embedded knicker freedom for all in our customs and laws. we no longer challenged each other to duel when differing panty preferences came to light and all agreed that even string thong advocates had the right to live in peace, free from ridicule and bloody violence

let us never forget

Then everything changed when the commando nation attacked.

 

[Jennywocky]

I somehow felt a strong urgency to send you something...
So same day I send you PM titled "Hi, just wanna send you something"
plus this photo and some nonsense:
View attachment 4535

The fact that you were unable to connect these two proves rather undeveloped intuition.

While I do not necessarily agree with your typing conclusions (there's lots of reasons for people to avoid silliness), FWIW I did actually LOL at what you sent. So freaking random. I do think P leaners are more likely to laugh at randomness.

 

[Marbles]

I am starting to think there might be good anime. I actually enjoyed Mushishi and one punch man.

Is cross dressing big among robots? "Robotics, it makes sex swap easy!" Maybe transgenderism is a ploy from the trans-humanist lobby to make interchangeable parts politically correct.

"In any other circumstances you might have had a point there, except my boss is a woman, I was a chick in the forties, I hate everyone equally, and there's no one alive who can comprehend my sexual preferences." - Alucard, Hellsing the Abridged Series

I aspire to that level of not giving a fuck.

You gonna stand for that, washti?!

are you trying to tear the forum apart? this is EXACTLY how the great knicker war of 2016 began. brother fought brother and even lovers were torn asunder in the ruthless struggle for panty supremacy. in the final battle scraps of lace and satin rained from the sky, smothering the vanquished and restoring peace and joy to our beloved home. we finally understood the importance of underwear harmony and the 2017 treaty of drawers finally embedded knicker freedom for all in our customs and laws. we no longer challenged each other to duel when differing panty preferences came to light and all agreed that even string thong advocates had the right to live in peace, free from ridicule and bloody violence

let us never forget

Then everything changed when the commando nation attacked.

Reporting for duty!

 

[washti]

french knickers are overly prone to bunching and so are best avoided ime

oh me, silly bunch
I'm not an old knickers preacher. I'm still fresh with them. But let me let you hear me here.

bunching adds texture. subtly coerce an eye to the nether region. meandering terrain prompts the observer to adventure.

when bought at least two sizes too small, there is also nothing so good like the feel of a hairy layer being stretched and spread democratically in all directions, when you are astride.
also, you are reminded that your knickers are indeed at least on hips, signaling good manners.

it's not french knickers who need to be fought. they are those, who always have their panties in a bunch, no matter the type.

^ Yeah, @washti

drop the knickers and shave the porcupine
less prickly makes 4 sexytime

I was looking for shaved porcupine, but all i've got is nekkid hedgehog. not lookin sexy at all. quite diseased.

Soooo I will stay bushy! u can always floss afterwards.

While I do not necessarily agree with your typing conclusions (there's lots of reasons for people to avoid silliness), FWIW I did actually LOL at what you sent. So freaking random. I do think P leaners are more likely to laugh at randomness.

my typing (refusing to give Tenacity nobel Ni-dom title) is based on her inability to get why i was playful and silly. She didn't connect it in any way to covo ppl had in her intro thread the same day. I didn't type her cause she didn't find the joke funny or dislike silliness as first contact with new ppl. just reading this thread it's blatantly obvious that she is hinting towards some rules Americans have I apparently disregarded. I find it hard to believe that INTJ would be irritated by it and would expect foreigner to meet cultural norms online from intj's country. Annnd to be so persistent about it.

also, it eludes me, how people think my PM was random, when i intended is as thematic. like i could see knickers stretched over anteater's nose. which looks like a dick. which is what thirsty guys send to girls.
maybe my humor is way more visual than i thought, so too idiosyncratic to be grasped. too unique, sophisticated... Ohh I won't lie, I like it.

[explaining jokes T-T]

 

[Perfectly Normal Beast]

bunching adds texture. subtly coerce an eye to the nether region. meandering terrain prompts the observer to adventure.

* clutches pearls *

when bought at least two sizes too small, there is also nothing so good like the feel of a hairy layer being stretched and spread democratically in all directions, when you are astride. also, you are reminded that your knickers are indeed at least on hips, signaling good manners.

a semblance of good manners is the cunning cloak of degeneracy ime. may the great knicker lord bless your hovering gusset

it's not french knickers who need to be fought. they are those, who always have their panties in a bunch, no matter the type.

alas, so it has always been

I've never felt so touched and amused at the same time. I shall relinquish my wicked ways at once.

don't tell anyone i touched you

 

[Marbles]

'tis alright, I'm legal. This thread is turning magnificent, I'm gonna go grab a beer.

 

[Tenacity]

@washti is right. I'm actually most likely to be ESFP. I'm surprised no one told me that earlier.

 

[Tenacity]

her inability to get why i was playful and silly

This proves how I'm clearly ESFP

 

[washti]

@Tenacity actually i never said you are sensor.

... proves rather undeveloped intuition.

that's all i said about your perceptive powers.
undeveloped isn't nessesary inferior. it can be even auxiliary.

Lets do bargain - you are ENFJ.
also, i will stop teasing. you are clearly not enjoying it.
if i caused discomfort I'm sorry.


My attiutude towards ppl can be summarised

"Just as the goldsmith gets his gold, first testing by melting, cutting and rubbing"

I'm glad and grateful you and others resurected the forum. But one must be vigilant when dealing with necromancers.

 

[Tenacity]

Lets do bargain - you are ENFJ.

I don't know, I was really seeing the ESFP. I think I've been sending all these ESFP/INFP music videos to @Rebis.

I'm glad and grateful you and others resurected the forum. But one must be vigilant when dealing with necromancers.

Well I also have the personality of Tums, according to @moody.
Basically, great, that averages out to ESFP chopped spinach.

I've had people send that kind of stuff to me before. Too many people. Gets old, and it is hard to tell whether humor is there or not. I get/have gotten cat-called in real life often, so I have paranoia about men trying to follow me, and I've been followed home multiple times when alone starting from when I was a child. I kind of seek mental safety here in a weird way but I know it isn't the same kind of safety at all.

If I knew you in real life, you would have automatically been dismissed from my worldview, it just isn't safe for me to engage that way. A lot of women in America will tell you this if you ask. And frankly I've enabled it way more than I think I needed to. It came off as a threat to me. I'm trying to unsee that. I don't know how much I can. But, at least I'm trying.

In retrospect, I should have listened to @Minuend .

 

[Marbles]

Don't leave us, Ten, we need our Tums! I couldn't care less what types you all are. As far as I'm concerned, MBTI is astrology for the slightly less scientifically illiterate. We're all here because we like pursuing flights of fancy, and aren't all that keen on meeting people face to face. That 'snuff for me. I wuv you all

 

[Tenacity]

 

[Marbles]

Dude, it's Friday night. Are you trying to give me an existential breakdown?

 

[moody]

I've had an existential crisis about whether or not I was an INTP vs. INTJ a few times.
The differences in the thinking process helped me know for sure that I'm an INTP.

Compared to INTP's, INTJs are chronological in their thinking. They check their rational before making a decision, but will then be very hard-pressed to sway from that final decision. INTP's make "decisions" much sooner, but will reevaluate themselves and their decisions with all incoming information. Any final thoughts will come after a longer period of time, due to the need for the INTP to constantly check themselves.

I.e:

INTJ:
question ---> gathers information ---> potential flaws/biases in information ---> trouble-shoots anything missed ---> l decision. It will be extremely difficult to change the INTJ's mind

vs.

INTP:
information ---> question ----> decision ---> analysis and reevaluate ---> gather information ---> decision ---> checks for personal biases ---> gathering more information ---> decision ---> trouble shooting decision ---> gathering more information ---> new question, will go back and decide what they think on old question later...

 

[Tenacity]

I've had an existential crisis about whether or not I was an INTP vs. INTJ a few times.
The differences in the thinking process helped me know for sure that I'm an INTP.

Thanks for analyzing / communicating at that level of depth in basically flow chart form. I'll be absorbing & reflecting on it (Even though I'm pretty sure I'm ESFP now, the internet told me flow charts were kind of like eating your vegetables. The main thing holding me back from processing it is this ultra-loud party going on in the room above me. Back to the music threads for me).

INTJ:
question ---> gathers information ---> potential flaws/biases in information ---> trouble-shoots anything missed ---> l decision. It will be extremely difficult to change the INTJ's mind

vs.

INTP:
information ---> question ----> decision ---> analysis and reevaluate ---> gather information ---> decision ---> checks for personal biases ---> gathering more information ---> decision ---> trouble shooting decision ---> gathering more information ---> new question, will go back and decide what they think on old question later...

 

[Black Rose]

INTJ's are more like alchemists, INTP's are Architects.
Tony Stark INTP - Dr. Strange INTJ

Ni and Ti are very different.
Ni percieves internally archetypal ideas not immediately obvious because it comes from within. Like Automatic writing.
Ti calculates everything in the head by analyzing it. Mental manipulation has an internal reference point.

Te takes information outside itself and derives logical next steps. Mental manipulation has an external reference point.
Ne is seeing ideas emerge from the outside of objects in the world.
Ni ideas come from inside the persons.

Q:

1. Do ideas come from the inside or outside?
2. Does thinking have an internal or external reference point for though manipulation?

INTJ
Ideas come from inside the self.
Thought manipulation comes from an external reference point.

INTP
Thought manipulation has an internal reference point.
Ideas come from outside the self.

 

[reckful]

If you're interested, you can find a lot of J/P input from me in a two-post roundup at Typology Central that starts here.

 

[Tenacity]

INTJ:
question ---> gathers information ---> potential flaws/biases in information ---> trouble-shoots anything missed ---> l decision. It will be extremely difficult to change the INTJ's mind

vs.

INTP:
information ---> question ----> decision ---> analysis and reevaluate ---> gather information ---> decision ---> checks for personal biases ---> gathering more information ---> decision ---> trouble shooting decision ---> gathering more information ---> new question, will go back and decide what they think on old question later...

So, on my end, it looks like a cycle of:

1. Input
2. (Reflection and/or Connection and/or Reasoning and/or Self-Reference and/or World-Reference)
3. Output

Now that I look at it, looks pretty boring and academic and could apply to anyone. But I don't really go back on decisions often.

Q:

1. Do ideas come from the inside or outside?
2. Does thinking have an internal or external reference point for though manipulation?

1. Do ideas come from the inside or outside?
It would depend on what "ideas" and "come from" means as it is hard to tell.

What about you? How can you tell whether your ideas come from the inside or outside?

2. Does thinking have an internal or external reference point for thought manipulation?
Can you elaborate on what this means? You seem to have a deeper awareness of physiological directionality of thinking. I don't really catch those things, i.e. How do you define a reference point?

Btw I know of Tony Stark, so I'll check out Doctor Strange since I haven't, big fan of Benedict Cumberbatch.

@reckful This was really spot on. Many considerate and crucial gaps of alignment overlooking overarching lifetime trends + the meaning behind misalignment of conventional wisdom that I didn't find elsewhere. I knew the bias definitely existed. Thank you. I'm still reading it and connecting more and more of the dots as I read.

 

[Minuend]

What a blatantly chauvinistic question..!
Minuend, help me out here...

Interestingly, I can't remember using that word at all in any context. It's not really one that fits with how I perceive the world or people. Even if people fit the criteria of being chauvinistic per definition, that's far from what people should worry about or something that is an cause for anything. Being chauvinistic comes from other issues and you should worry more about where the attitude comes from than the attitude itself. You can be a well meaning, but a bit slow chauvinistic person who don't understand what you're thinking or the implications of it. And you can be someone who is never perceived to be chauvinistic but who have shitty exploitative attitudes. Though, sometimes drunk posting, perhaps I have used that word on several occasions.

Growing up with an extroverted well intended christian who just don't understand what damage some of his views does and who wants other people to have nice lives contrary to his actions, people are more nuanced than that to me. Even though apparently questioning shady behavior labels me something of an extremist. Though I understand this as well. Behavior that are not overtly damaging like bullying or physical abuse is not always understood in how they can influence other people in toxic matters considering they are just "small" things or "details". Sometimes attitude that seems harmless can reinforce other bad attitudes and behavior

But I guess this is pretty far off topic. The difference between INTP and INTJ? I'd say most INTPs I've met comes across as more "emotional". This might seem crazy, but INTJs come cross as more autistic and detached. INTPs come across maybe as clumsy, but more emotional about it, more humble, more open (despite preferring being secretive about themselves). They are just more laidback and easygoing, while INTJs tend to be more intense. My 2 haven't really studies types that much cents. Though, whether other people would perceive INTP detachment as "emotional" as I tend to do is unclear.