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Incurable (long)

Keads

Redshirt
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Yesterday 8:33 PM
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Location
Louisville, KY
This is my first time posting here. I am very hesitant to write because I don't know how I'll be received.

I am 24 years old. I have been diagnosed with major depression, PTSD, social anxiety, general anxiety, and an avoidance disorder. I am in a constant state of unhappiness. Life holds no joy for me. I began feeling this way before I left for Iraq in 2005. Since I got back, every therapist and psychiatrist I have seen has been so focused on my combat deployment, that they do not question if there are underlying issues. I wanted to give a bit of background information to allow for more informed replies.
I decided to copy-paste something I've been working on for a month now. If I try to write how I feel, I will write as if to be read; will impact my words. It is best that I share what I have written for myself instead:



I am always sad. Not sure if it is internal or external. Sometime I blame my sadness on being alone. Sometimes I blame my sadness on the war. Sometime I blame my sadness on me. Truthfully, I don’t know where it comes from. There is never a moment that I am given the clarity to see through my emotional complexities. My best shot to survive is to live off what I am feeling at the moment. Past emotions do not apply to future or present emotions. They often contradict each other. What am I to do? I cannot rely on precedence for emotional stability.

Last month I was sure that my emotional state was the cause of my brother. The way he was always there to pull me down during my childhood. He would drain any confidence I may have felt, leech away any personal success with cynicism. I was certain that my inability to act and excessively high state of alertness was due my brother forcing me to always be aware of what those around me are thinking, but my ruined confidence filters their made-up thoughts through cynicism. I only hear the negative words they could use. Before I have begun a new venture, I have already failed in the eyes of those watching.

What is it like to truly be alone? I have been in solitude without feeling this lonely. I am progressively meeting more and more people. Not one of these people has ever made me feel ‘wanted’. Not one of these people has been thoughtful towards me. I constantly please people. I give them what they want of me and ask nothing in return. I have loved and sat idly by and watched as the person barely acknowledged me. Nobody sees me. They see what they want me to be. Some see me as a sweetheart, others a monster; I am neither. I am caring, brutal, harsh, kind, generous, empathetic, thoughtful, cold, logical, and fair. Will another person ever truly care for me or only what they mean to me? It is a fine line between love, and loving someone because they love you.

My life has gone progressively downhill since Iraq. I am filled with an overwhelming sadness when I look at pictures from my deployment. This sadness is not based on the men that died, but based on the entire experience of my deployment. I feel that I could have done more. I feel that I left much unaccomplished. I feel that I abandoned my friends that shared so much suffering with me. I often reminisce at pictures of my past-friends. They hold no love for me, I left them after a year overseas together. To be completely truthful, I fear they think I’m a coward for getting out of the army early. Its unbearable shame to talk to them knowing what they could be thinking.

When I look at my life through the eyes of the child I was 20 years ago, I cry. I am not what that child wanted to become. That child was energetic, happy, interested in life, and always wanted to do something new. I am none of these things now. The child I was would be ashamed of me. I’m ashamed of me.

I now believe that I am a victim of my conscience. I always listen to what it tells me to do. I have always tried not to disappoint myself by doing what I know to be wrong. I always play the honorable role when my conscience tells me to. I think I am up to nearly a half dozen times that a girl I am actively dating either decides she would rather be with the ex-boyfriend or another guy she is also dating. Every time I hear this, I do what I think to be right; I smile, tell her it is alright. Then I alleviate any guilt she may be feeling. I value the happiness of the person I date, so I would rather her be with the person that makes her happy, though it isn’t me. Every time it hurts, yet every time I respect her decision. Even writing this makes me feel like the same sad and pathetic person I feel like every time a girl chooses another man over me.

Nobody has ever made an effort to understand me, but I am understandable. The things I say about myself, regardless of how untrue they may be, must be believe at the time that I say them. I believe these things at the time that I say them. When I say I feel nothing, at the time it is true. At the time I have probably gone so long without a positive or negative emotion that I forget what it is like to feel them. When I say I feel nothing, at the time I say it I believe(d) it. To interpret me, another person would have to believe I mean the things I say, so they may feel what I feel, and also recognize that I may not be seeing the whole picture, and thus may be exaggerating.

My greatest personal tragedy is that nobody has ever put my first. Nobody has chosen to think of me and my feelings before their own, or even to think of my feelings for that matter. I cannot count how many times a girl I am dating either gets back together with an ex-boyfriend or picks someone else. It hurts an equal amount each time. Not because I was overly attached to the girl I was dating, but because it is one more assurance that I am not wanted. Does anyone want me? Will anyone ever think of me?

Will this level of awareness ever go away? I cannot have a conversation without wondering what the other person is thinking during it. It may be due to training, it may be an inherent trait of my personality, or it may be caused by something I have repressed and not yet thought of. I own every room. When I walk in, I know everything that goes on inside of this room. I know what is said by others, what is probably being thought by others, I know every minute detail of action that occurs in this space. When there are too many people to keep track of or too much is happening, I get overwhelmed. I can’t keep track of everything. I’ve been asked what I experience in crowds, I always make up some obscure answer about being either being afraid, PTSD, anger; something understandable. If I told them the truth, would they understand?

Communication is made difficult in the beginning of relationships because I can’t give it everything. I am led to believe by the media that if I really want it, really feel something more than lust for her, then I have to be vulnerable. I can’t hold back, I have to allow myself to be hurt. So I text/call/facebook without regard to the insecure, immature feelings of “what if I text too much, she’ll know I like her.”. What hurts most after I realize that the woman I’m dating is not interested in me, is that I feel ashamed for having felt anything for her. Not ashamed because of her, but ashamed because everyone else thinks I’m a fool for liking a girl that didn’t like me back. I am that afraid of my own emotions that I would rather have feelings based on the perspective of other people instead of feeling what I SHOULD be feeling after being rejected by another person. My focus is entirely on the thoughts of other people, that before long, I forget to ever feel what it was like to lose a girl I liked. The feeling dies before I ever gave it enough attention to ever “feel” it. I am not emotionless, but have limited perspective when emotional.


Any thoughts?
 

juturna

Member
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california
Hey, I don't know you...but can I hug you?

I can't say I know exactly how you feel because I've never served, but I wake up every morning, tears on my pillow, feeling the saddest feeling in the world. I don't know why I'm so sad all the time, but I think it's because I feel so alone.

I'm not really sure what kind of feedback you're hoping to get from this but from other threads it seems like INTPs are prone to depression.

Sorry I couldn't really help the way you wanted...
 

Keads

Redshirt
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Location
Louisville, KY
I'm not looking for help. I want somebody to say something to me that I haven't thought of yet. I want a new perspective and perhaps a bit of hope.

I can easily understand why INTP's are prone to depression, we think too much!
 

asmit127

Active Member
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I've never served and don't have any of the other conditions you (may) have either, but can relate to some of this. I say may as the brain is a strange thing, and all these conditions are mental. About 3 months ago I went from lonely and depressed to happy without changing a thing in my life. As suggested in my thread "why am I happy?" one crucial thing is truly not believing a thing the media or anything else that tries to tell you how to think says. Are you really depressed at being alone or do you just feel that by your age you shouldn't be? For me it was the latter.

That said it would be great for just one person to understand and believe how we feel, especially when we feel nothing. I'm not convinced anyone thinks it is possible to be so busy thinking about ridiculous things that feelings just don't exist but to us it really is. And as for actually telling it as it is that is one of the biggest things society imprints on you - never do this. Always lie and keep the other person happy... it's superficial and goes against everything we are. When you tell someone something strange they cannot believe it is the truth which it is (at that time to you) as it is so rare anyone actually tells the truth - you must have said something strange to manipulate them. If you were to tell a girl you're an INTP and give her a good profile to read what harm can it do really? At worst she'll move on, but you're used to that. Find someone random who you don't really care about and try it (and be sure to share the results). Remember that the relationship section is nothing but praise, once they get over the detachment :)

That you've managed to date more than one girl is impressive to me (and why I suggested you could afford to test on one), I'm also 24 and even without spending a year abroad I've only found one who I think actually cares and thus could be a romantic interest, but that's not my aim. I've told her I love her and of the fear of overcontacting her, and also the fear of loosing her from not contacting her enough. So far she still wont believe that I'm not trying to get into her pants (or that's my interpretation of her e-mails anyway, she used to work with me but went back to uni so I rarely see her anymore) and I've been trying to convince her otherwise for a year!

I hope some of this helps and appologise for my unsympathetic approach.
 

FrostFern

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I've read your entire post. Though I've never really experienced anything I can honestly label as traumatic in my time on this planet I definitely sympathize with your depression and social anxiety.

Unfortunately I'm not sure if I'm any good when it comes to comforting/empathizing with people, probably because I have such a grim view that I most often feel indifferent when other people try to comfort me. I'm too honest to just jump in and say "everythings gonna to be alright" when in reality I don't know.

Regarding some of the things you wrote, I often wonder if the world would be a better place if everyone was completely transparent, if there were no games, white lies, or truths withheld. We wouldn't constantly have to worry about what others might be thinking but would we be any less isolated? Or would society as we know it simply collapse? I'm reminded of a quote from Jean-Paul Sartre "Hell is other people".

Sorry if this is unhelpful. I just hope that the fact that I read your post and thought about it means something to you.
 

warryer

and Heimdal's horn sounds
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The only person you have to rely on is yourself. The only words that matter are your own. The only person who can say you fail is you. The only person standing in your path is you.

To me depression is self inflicted. When I was depressed (2 long years) I learned that it was caused by me. I did not allow myself to see beyond myself. Reality is perception. Now I look back on it and think about how stupid it was but, I remind myself I would not be who I am today without those trials.

I think its caused by stagnation. When you get comfortable in your ways you set yourself up. There is nothing constant in this world. I am still trying to overcome this. It is the reason why I am still smoking even though I badly want to quit. I am uncomfortable with change and I know that if I want to be the best I can be I have to stop fighting it.

From what it sounds like- there is some sort of parasitic mode of thought that has take control of you (the real you). It has tricked you into thinking that you are only made up of what people tell you and you have no control over it. Once you become aware of it you can begin to fight it.
 

EditorOne

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"Not ashamed because of her, but ashamed because everyone else thinks I’m a fool for liking a girl that didn’t like me back."

Sounds familiar, been there and sorta done that, but probably nobody is paying as much attention as you think. A great many people face rejection in their attempts to find relationships; it does not imply inadequacy on anyone's part, and in fact it is so common an experience that you should turn the telescope around and look at all the other people breaking up instead of zeroing in on yourself.

Just one little sunbeam for you. I'm not ready to take on the rest of it other than a general observation that you need to have patience with yourself, the passage of time and the changes you go through and that take place around you make some of these issues disappear on their own.
 

Keads

Redshirt
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Louisville, KY
I appreciate the responses I've received. I think that just allowing myself to be vulnerable and share my thoughts with strangers, albeit anonymously, is helpful.

I agree with you Warryer that depression is self inflicted. I am aware that depression has the ability to warp my thoughts and ideas. Its like looking through a camera with a filter on the lens. I can't see everything, only what the filter allows.

I have been filled with self-doubt since my original post. I changed my mind that I shouldn't have written that at least a hundred times. Communicating the 'real me' to people is a completely foreign concept, it put an awful knot in my stomach "how will people respond?" "will they be annoyed?" "will they just see me as another person competing for attention by whining?". Perhaps I can learn to get past my fears by anonymous forum postings!

I care too much what others think.
 

Trebuchet

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First, you have my sympathy for your sorrow. It must be awful. It does sound like a real problem, and it is such a shame that your therapists don't believe you when you say it began before your deployment.

Second, since you are looking for new ideas, I'll bring up Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. This is not a suggestion that you go find a new therapist. You can decide that. This is a description of stuff I have heard on Science Friday, read for myself in articles, and found fascinating.

The brain, it seems, can be restructured even in adulthood. It does grow new neurons and make new connections. But this process takes time. It takes about 6-8 weeks. Interestingly, that is how long it takes for drugs like Prozac to work (again, not a recommendation that you take Prozac). The brain can learn a new way in that amount of time by practice.

I haven't been involved in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy myself, and I am not a mental health professional. I simply find it fascinating. But it sounds like instead of talking about your troubles and finding the source, there is an emphasis instead on training the brain to be happy/stop obsessing/stop overreacting/whatever is the problem.

So, since you wanted something to give you hope, I am hoping this might be a direction you didn't know about.

Keep posting; at least there are some people here who are happy to listen. I would love to know what progress you are making, or hear about your frustrations if you get stuck.
 

fullerene

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The only perspective I have is very quickly rejected the instant I say it: but since it's all I have, I'm quite sure that Jesus cares so much about you that whatever anyone else thinks and accepts about you is... irrelevant. Since (tbh) I don't really expect that to mean anything to you, though:

You actually remind me of my girlfriend, a bit. She never went to war, but since you're annoyed at all the psychotherapists and whatnot for focusing on that, I won't either. She does have PTSD, social and general anxiety, her senses overwhelmed by large (and even medium-sized) groups of people, and more unrequited love in her life than anyone else I've ever known, though. I still like her all the same. Actually, the anxiety issues can be fun, since I can tease her just by looking her in the eyes. I'm a little sick that way, but uncomfortable girl == cute girl. Likewise, though, she hasn't found therapists helpful in the slightest, and many just made her worse. Medication (paxil) probably was the worst for her of all--though I didn't know her when she was on it.

Finding people who care about you helps a lot, though. Respect yourself enough not to hang out with assholes, but to find people who respect you as you are, because it's only when you're surrounded by people who accept you as you are that you'll find it easiest to grow. There is no substitute for love. It's deeply-seeded need is woven into our bodies, and I wouldn't be surprised if the universe itself would disintegrate without it.

Yes, I'm a little bit crazy myself. *shrugs*
 

bluesquid

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Im sorry you are feeling this way. Im going to post even tho this might sound trite.

What worked for me was two things.

smile. make yourself smile for 20 seconds randomly through the day. i find myself smiling at myself smiling, and then laughing at my self smiling and laughing. However you can, get some positive loops going.

and stop the negative ones. Identify a feeling and then say "no" aloud. dont let yourself feel or think the thought. Stop those negative loops.

I wish I had more to offer.
 

snowqueen

mysteriously benevolent
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Hi Keads, I hope you find what you need here - certainly I'm sure there are plenty of us who do absolutely understand that particular existential crisis that seems to plague us INTPs.

I actually am a mental health professional - bluesquid's advice is spot on - definitely worth trying. A book on CBT will probably tell you all you need to know or try out.

Here's the bit that interests me:
When I look at my life through the eyes of the child I was 20 years ago, I cry. I am not what that child wanted to become. That child was energetic, happy, interested in life, and always wanted to do something new.

Try this:

Think about that child and imagine that child is now your age - what would he be like? What would he be doing? How would others view him/relate to him? What would he be wearing? Where would he be living, working, hanging out? get a really detailed picture.

Now, on a scale of 0-10 where 10 is your vision and 0 is not at all, decide where you are now in relation to that adult. Be honest - I suspect that these is still some sign of that child. Make a list of all the things that tell you that child is still alive within you however small. Then when you wake up in the morning decide what very very small step you could take to get closer to that adult you would like to be and try it out. If it works, great, if not then try something different next time. Set yourself a very very small step every day for a month and see what happens. Are you willing to make a commitment to yourself? Then try it out.
 

EditorOne

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"Communicating the 'real me' to people is a completely foreign concept"


Yes. But the real "us" is a lot like the real "you," so you have found the right place. :)
 

Keads

Redshirt
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Louisville, KY
Fullerene, though I am not a believer, I appreciate your kind words. I agree that I need to find a good support structure through friends and to fulfill my need for love. My social skills aren't quit up to snuff. I found that the best way for me to meet new people is to acquire a new identity for the time I spend with them. I leech off my roommate, he brings me out with him to meet his friends since I have none of my own. He introduces me as "Keads" and for the night I become Keads; the happy, smiling, witty character that people are intrigued by. I know that this is a poor substitute for real friends since they are held at a firm distance by my alias. Though I have to be more guarded and superficial, I enjoy not being 'me' for a night.

Thank you Snowqueen. That is the best advice I have received from a pool of around 2 dozen psychiatrists/psychologists. I'm going to get started on that immediately. I believe that this will actually produce change. Its even a better idea then my 'adopt a personality' plan!

Not many people can relate to combat stress. I understand that. Please do not think that you have to be able to empathize with me to give me council.
 

Geminii

Consultant, inventor, project innovator
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Perth, Australia
I've found it can help to take a complete break from life. Pack up everything and walk away from it. Go somewhere you've never been. Try jobs, hobbies, services, restaurants, diners, social clubs, and instructional courses you've never felt the remotest interest in. Attend lectures. Meet new people. Buy new clothes. Try different style. Take a brand new cell phone, and only give the number to a single emergency-only contact person.

Gorge yourself on the new, even if it's the mundane new. Wallow in the present. Leave things of the past alone; you can get back to them in three to six months if you really feel you have to.

Try art, and learn to look at things stripped of their associations. Try new fields of study and research, and find the interesting seeds at their core. Try drawing, writing, sculpture, painting, poetry - don't be good at it, just prolific. Try new forms of exercise and ways of moving. Try new foods. You're in a new town, a new city, a new state - no-one's going to judge you.

Somewhere in the flood of new experiences and ways of thinking, or in their combination or interpolation, you'll build new pathways in your psyche. Ones which are emotionally completely unlinked to any past events. They'll give you... alternatives, at least. Perspective. Options. If nothing else, the knowledge that if necessary, if the world gets too much again, there is always the sabbatical. Always a way out. A way to rest, recover, and recuperate, and put the planet on Pause.
 

Trebuchet

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If you do adopt a persona, Keads, I predict it'll all end in tears. I've done that my entire life, and it has never once satisfied me. Even when it led to professional acceptance, I wasn't happy. Some of my biggest regrets in life come from doing exactly that.

Recently I've tried being myself. Oddly, I find that harder. And scarier. And I am not good at it. But the results are much better and more satisfying.

Finding love is hard for every personality type, and looking for it when depressed is really painful. But it doesn't change the fact that you deserve love just as you are.
 

warryer

and Heimdal's horn sounds
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Something that I think is interesting is that in your vulnerable state is actually when you are the strongest, truest expression of your self, kind of paradoxical, but thats the way I see it. Damn society for oppression.

As to your previous post- I think its time to get yourself a new lens. Its easy :rolleyes:, all you have to do is think about it and then really believe it.
 
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