If a 5yr od pointed a gun at you

[boondockbabe]

I had a friend ask me this question and I thought it rather odd but apperantly it just depends on who you are?

If a 5yr old pointed a gun at you and they were going to shoot you would you shoot first?

I know this is a distressing thought but my friend was in the war and this happened.

I personally would shoot. But I believe in self preservation over all else.
I do test J about half the time.
I am curios as to what you would do and why.

 

[The Gopher]

Well, the ability of a five year old to shoot is not high I wouldn't shoot, unless I knew they would hit then I would shoot the leg. However I would probably try to dodge (counting on the ability and speed from my experience with five year olds.) And crash tackle him/her.

 

[snafupants]

The kiddo's probably brainwashed, so I might refrain from blowing his fool head off. I mean, that doesn't sound like someone who was in diapers three years ago. In all likelihood, I would be laughing too hard at the absurdity to help myself, and easily succumb to a shot in the torso...still laughing. If we're part of a complex web of parallel universes, this might be one of the more humorous worlds, at least to me.

Spoiler

 

[boondockbabe]

This seemed like a better question an hour or so ago. I'm so damned tired.

 

[digital angel]

This is a distressing situation. I would try to quickly assess how serious the kid is and then depending on my assessment, I just might shoot (in self defense) near the kid's foot to scare the kid and disarm the kid(depending on how close the kid is). Then, I would contact the appropriate authorities.

 

[Bryson]

In a normal situation i would probably try to gain his trust but in a war situation I think this is not a reasonable option, so yes, I would shoot. Better him dead than me.

 

[Stigmata]

Yes. If met with a scenario in which my life is threatened, I will do whatever is necessary to ensure my survival.

Also, I imagined the 5 year old would be much more inclined with to shoot with less hesitation given that they haven't fully developed a sense of morality, nor do they really have the foresight to understand the consequences of their actions. In the mind of the child it would be no more or less dangerous or realistic than playing some type of imagination based shooting game.

 

[Ex-User (4771)]

I would shoot to kill in such a situation, i draw no line when it comes to hostiles. If you are a hostile then to me you are all equal.

 

[Cogwulf]

I'd try the mind games route. Brainwashed or not, a 5 year old kid is still only 5 years old, the "big and scary" card would probably have a decent chance of working.

 

[Minuend]

Of course I would. I doubt I'd feel worse for killing a child than an adult.

 

[Words]

Based on my current values, maybe not. That's just me though.

 

[Cavallier]

I'd probably laugh like snafu. Also, I'd probably attempt to talk the kid out of it. If that doesn't work I doubt the kid would actually manage a fatal wound. It's like a knife fight. Sure, you'll get hurt but you probably won't die.

Maybe I'd attempt the AlisaD (grandmotherly) approach, "that's nice dear now hand granny the gun before you hurt yourself or at least make yourself useful and go shoot some strays. The damn things keep taking a dump all over the yard".

 

[Anthile]

Shoot that little bastard. Better a child murderer than sorry, my grandfather always used to say.

 

[Melllvar]

In general if it came down to my life or the life of the person threatening mine I would always pick mine. So in that regard, I'd fuck the little brat up.

However, it'd be unlikely in such a situation that I'd know for sure it was either my life or theirs. Maybe the gun isn't loaded, maybe (s)he'll miss (quite likely given the age, size and recoil on the weapon - I've shot guns before and without any training it's a lot harder to hit anything more than a dozen feet away than you'd think, even when you're calm, taking careful aim, target isn't moving and without any pressure - and that's for a full grown adult), maybe they won't really shoot, etc. I'd give more benefit of the doubt to a five year old than I would a grown adult, but if I thought the chances were good I was in danger, yeah I'd take steps to eliminate that danger.

But honestly unless the kid has the thing right up against you you could probably just turn and run and have a good chance of not even getting hit, much less killed. If they do have it right up against you, they're freaking five years old, can you not just grab it away from them? The circumstances where it's really your life or their's are pretty slim in the grand scheme of this situation.

 

[Jah]

Less investment is lost at the life of a 5 yo.
I have the ingredients to make more, and we'll avoid future fuck-ups with gun-control (No guns for kids under the age of 6 this time around. Don't want to have to kill more of these.)


Though, of course, it being a 5 yo. It would probably be just as effective to order it to put the gun down, promising you won't smack it around afterwards. (They're so gullible. )
I doubt the kid is in a killing-frenzy, intentional aggression usually doesn't kick in till later in life.

 

[Jesse]

In a warzone, I would shoot.

Other than that no, I would not.

 

[A22]

You can't be sure he's going to shoot. It's a 5yo he doesn't know the consequences of it. Perhaps he's just trying to scare you, a bad joke. If I think he's really going to shoot I'd probably run and hide then talk him out of it. I don't think I'd shoot him.

IDK why people see others in a different way when it comes to a warzone. They are the same.
If I were in a war the only thing I'd shoot is my foot so I can get out of it. The same thing I'd do that kid I'd do in a war. Except I'd have AWOL first.

 

[jachian]

I'll definitely Lay him low........ Especially because its a child.

Brainwashed children are the worst form of evil that can exist.
They do wicked things and think its a game...... Adults at least know that what they do is wrong and at some level can be reasoned with.

But brainwashed children have little hope..... at least in the few seconds/minutes you have with them.

I'll shoot them down and put a few more extra rounds to make sure there dead..........

Evil must must be destroyed and absolute evil must be destroyed absolutely.

 

[Bryson]

IDK why people see others in a different way when it comes to a warzone. They are the same.

In a warzone, you get used to see people killing and people getting killed.
That means people (including babies i'd assume) will be more likely to shoot you because they will be much more worried about getting themselves killed.
Oh, and social conformity would be another big factor. I'd guess no one told him ''killing people is wrong''

 

[xbox]

Well, the ability of a five year old to shoot is not high I wouldn't shoot, unless I knew they would hit then I would shoot the leg. However I would probably try to dodge (counting on the ability and speed from my experience with five year olds.) And crash tackle him/her.

Same here.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

Cap the foo.

Spoiler

If it can't be helped.

 

[nihilen.]

responses are disgusting.

 

[Causeless]

responses are disgusting.

Only because you feel life is sacred.

 

[nihilen.]

Only because you feel life is sacred.

I don't. I think life is futile.

 

[The Gopher]

I don't. I think life is futile.

Your life or his? Or just life in general but if that's the case why would you care?

 

[nihilen.]

both. but knowing that life is futile does not contradict with my ability to empathize and to do the "right" thing accordingly, which is attempting to save my life without killing a 5 year old.

 

[GYX_Kid]

can't even decide if this is unfortunate but i would not have a first instinct to shoot
i might end up thinking for one split second too long, and get shot
most likely i'd aim for some kind of quick surprise maneuver to disable/paralyze him, and steal the gun

 

[Gather_Wanderer]

This thread fuels one of many INTP stereotypes; Almost everyone assumes they would have time to do anything other than shoot. If a brainwashed child is taught to kill on site, what gives reason to believe they would hesitate to do otherwise? You'd likely HAVE to take him/her out, or hope they're a bad shot and still likely be hit anyway.

Of course, this is all pending on the child's being brainwashed. If it was just some random kid doing it, then yeah I'd probably hesitate too. Try a "throw object and spin" move, or something. I'd have a tough time killing the kid under civiliancircumstances.

 

[Jesse]

I said warzone which meant I was a soldier and also the question takes into account that I am armed. If your old enough to aim a gun at someone, you are old enough for the consequence. There is no right or wrong here just a tragic loss of life and I am not going to decide based on age as my right to live is equal to some little shit who has had a shit life. Basically with the limited variables my life is better than some kids because I don't try to shoot people.

 

[Bryson]

This thread fuels one of many INTP stereotypes; Almost everyone assumes they would have time to do anything other than shoot. .

Seconded.

 

[The Gopher]

This thread fuels one of many INTP stereotypes; Almost everyone assumes they would have time to do anything other than shoot. If a brainwashed child is taught to kill on site, what gives reason to believe they would hesitate to do otherwise? You'd likely HAVE to take him/her out, or hope they're a bad shot and still likely be hit anyway.

Well is shoot the first reaction? Sure I doubt people would have time to think but If I could I would use my Awesome fencing skills to lunge before he can react and if he/she can react faster than my lunge then I wouldn't have a hope anyway. (Unless he is a bad shot)

 

[Jennywocky]

Here's another question: Would it make a difference whether it is a boy or a girl? (Most of you have been assuming the child to be a boy, although the OP uses the pronoun "they".)

Would you have more lag time / indecision over a girl?

Well, the ability of a five year old to shoot is not high I wouldn't shoot, unless I knew they would hit then I would shoot the leg. However I would probably try to dodge (counting on the ability and speed from my experience with five year olds.) And crash tackle him/her.

As long as you are not up against Hit Girl, you should be good to go!

both. but knowing that life is futile does not contradict with my ability to empathize and to do the "right" thing accordingly, which is attempting to save my life without killing a 5 year old.

What if the five-year-old grows up to be Hitler? You'd have been a hero to Nazi Germany.

 

[nihilen.]

Here's another question: Would it make a difference whether it is a boy or a girl? (Most of you have been assuming the child to be a boy, although the OP uses the pronoun "they".)

Would you have more lag time / indecision over a girl?



As long as you are not up against Hit Girl, you should be good to go!



What if the five-year-old grows up to be Hitler? You'd have been a hero to Nazi Germany.

as others have pointed out, there's no room to think it through on the spot. I just find it disgusting that most predict that their initial reaction would be to shoot a 5 year old to death.

 

[The Gopher]

Here's another question: Would it make a difference whether it is a boy or a girl? (Most of you have been assuming the child to be a boy, although the OP uses the pronoun "they".)

Would you have more lag time / indecision over a girl?

There would be less time lag, not that I would shoot anybody but I would feel more comfortable killing a female then a male. (at that age anyway)

 

[Jennywocky]

as others have pointed out, there's no room to think it through on the spot. I just find it disgusting that most predict that their initial reaction would be to shoot a 5 year old to death.

For nothing supposedly meaning anything to you (amoral/nihilist), I'm kind of surprised at the pervasive and persistent moralism in your answer.

How do you reconcile the two?

 

[Bryson]

 

[jachian]

Here's another question: Would it make a difference whether it is a boy or a girl? (Most of you have been assuming the child to be a boy, although the OP uses the pronoun "they".)

Would you have more lag time / indecision over a girl?



As long as you are not up against Hit Girl, you should be good to go!



What if the five-year-old grows up to be Hitler? You'd have been a hero to Nazi Germany.

Girl... Boy... It maters not...... you lay them low am make sure the're dead!!......

I believe that life is sacred, however brainwashed children intent on using weapons and killing are a downright abomination.........
And at that age, there is little you could to undo the brainwashing.........

 

[nihilen.]

For nothing supposedly meaning anything to you (amoral/nihilist), I'm kind of surprised at the pervasive and persistent moralism in your answer.

How do you reconcile the two?

I suppose Bryson answered it. I'm not a nihilist though, I just realize that everything is inherently meaningless.

wars are always fought under the presumption of survival, so that's no excuse really, whether bombing arabs, gassing jews, blowing up civilians, or gunning down 5 year olds, it's the same disgusting mentality and it's manifested in this thread.

 

[boondockbabe]

I would say it is safe to assume the child in this discussion was "brinwashed" as this was a soldier in a warzone.

 

[A22]

If your old enough to aim a gun at someone, you are old enough for the consequence.

That doesn't make any sense. The kid probably won't know what he is doing. He might see the whole situation as a game like when he plays with his toys or with a plastic gun or a video-game. He might be doing what he saw his hero from a movie doing. He probably does not know the consequences of it.
Even a monkey can point a gun at someone.

 

[Jennywocky]

I suppose Bryson answered it. I'm not a nihilist though, I just realize that everything is inherently meaningless.

wars are always fought under the presumption of survival, so that's no excuse really, whether bombing arabs, gassing jews, blowing up civilians, or gunning down 5 year olds, it's the same disgusting mentality and it's manifested in this thread.

So where would you draw the line for survival, if everything is inherently meaningless?

It sounds like violence for the sake of survival would be off-limits to you, based on what you said here. Is that correct, or are there situations where you feel it is allowable to hurt another to allow yourself to live.

What about other issues, like disease or hunger? At what point would you decide that the effort/energy expended is too much for a meaningless pursuit?

(serious question, not rhetorical)

 

[Solitaire U.]

Girl... Boy... It maters not...... you lay them low am make sure the're dead!!......

[sic]What video game box?

I believe that life is sacred, however brainwashed children intent on using weapons and killing are a downright abomination.........
And at that age, there is little you could to undo the brainwashing.........

Sure, Life is sacred as long as the option to counter-brainwash exists. Your outrage at the thought of being killed by something over which you deem yourself so vastly superior is what makes 12 year old suicide bombers (and symbolic references to gun-toting 5 year-olds) such an effective weapon against you. You are no less a monument to the self-parody of your own brainwashed moral fallacies then they.

In light of this and other examples of festering human intellect, I'd like to believe I'd be able to be merciful and pull the trigger. But because I am brainwashed by human instinct rather than human ideals, I could never do this. I'll meet with death in defense of my own children, not because they are mine but because they are children. In this I can only maintain faith in my superior resolve to harmlessly diffuse the situation, and 'Kill 'em all' sentiments such as the above-quoted are what drives my sheer will.

 

[boondockbabe]

Symbolic? Dude this shit really happens. I can't tell you how many times I have heard this story. You want to change it to a woman in a burka? Does it matter? Would you pull the trigger to save yourself or take the moral highroad? This is what my friends ask me when they are having problems dealing. " Do you think it's ok to kill children to save yourself ?"
Since we are all thinkers I told them I would ask you guys what you thought. I personally feel that Whatever you have to do to survie and come home to your family is acceptable. I have been in simalar(sp) situations and I have always shot back- reguardless of who it was. I MUST survive. I was not referring to any 12 yr old suicide-of any kind.
This is not about the psychology of the person threatening your life, This is the psychology of the person facing the decision of wether or not to pull the trigger.
I understand that there are people who think killing under ANY circumstances is sick. I have just not had the luxury of an easy life. I am jaded and as so I respond differently. I am glad to know that there are plenty of folks out there that would make the Intelligent decision of saving themselves. I look foreward to the many perceptions to come. and I know my friends will feel better knowing that a bunch of really smart people would do the same as they did. Thank you all for your input.

To the people who think it is wrong, I would like to thank you for your insight. I will keep it in mind when speaking with my friends on such matters. I would not undertand the other side of this at all if it were not for you. I really appreciate your insight.

 

[Melllvar]

^ @boondock:
I imagine that speculations on this are really pretty meaningless unless you've actually been in such a situation before. Who knows what the fuck I'd really do? I don't think the hypotheses of random people, thinkers or not, should really be a justification for any action one way or the other. If it was me, I'd rather know what other people had actually done in such a situation, why and what went through their heads, to know if my own actions would be justified or not.

I expect most people's intellectualizations of how they would respond would actually be quite different from their actual responses under the stress and immediacy of the situation. Mine usually are, even in less extreme cases as something like this.

 

[boondockbabe]

All of my friends have pulled the trigger- thats why I feel they're still here. Not all of them are sure. This is a discussion we have had many times and I was just looking for some insight. And as a rule your first response is usually right. Don't think about it 'cause you really wouldn't have time in real life. It is a response. I am comfortable with who I am and why I respond the way I do. I was just curios as to how comfortable everyone else is.

That being said. A lady in a burka pulls a gun on you in a hostile area.......

 

[Jennywocky]

" Do you think it's ok to kill children to save yourself ?" Since we are all thinkers I told them I would ask you guys what you thought. I personally feel that Whatever you have to do to survie and come home to your family is acceptable. I have been in simalar(sp) situations and I have always shot back- reguardless of who it was. I MUST survive. I was not referring to any 12 yr old suicide-of any kind.
This is not about the psychology of the person threatening your life, This is the psychology of the person facing the decision of wether or not to pull the trigger.

I've heard enough stories about soldiers in 'nam who either died or had their limbs blown off because they didn't shoot the children who came up to them with bombs strapped on their bodies. How many times do you watch your friends die/be dismembered until you do what you have to do in order to get out alive and whole?

The situation itself was FUBAR and should make us question war... it is a ugly, ugly, horrific business...but I typically refrain from passing judgment generally on people in situations where they're forced to make decisions like that.

Still, the OP wasn't necessarily about that situation and seemed to have more flex built into it.

I expect most people's intellectualizations of how they would respond would actually be quite different from their actual responses under the stress and immediacy of the situation. Mine usually are, even in less extreme cases as something like this.

That's probably true.

No one gets to think; you just respond.
So asking people to think of a response makes no sense unless they're just giving you their gut instinct without analysis.

 

[snafupants]

If there was a whole platoon of soldiers around me, and the kid was waving the gun limp wristed and willy nilly like, I wouldn't hesitate to pop a slug right between his/her eyes.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

I'm not going to wait for him to kill me and then use his new found experience to kill my friends or several innocent bystanders. The buck stops here. He is as much of a combatant as those who trained him.

 

[jachian]

[sic]What video game box?



Sure, Life is sacred as long as the option to counter-brainwash exists. Your outrage at the thought of being killed by something over which you deem yourself so vastly superior is what makes 12 year old suicide bombers (and symbolic references to gun-toting 5 year-olds) such an effective weapon against you. You are no less a monument to the self-parody of your own brainwashed moral fallacies then they.

In light of this and other examples of festering human intellect, I'd like to believe I'd be able to be merciful and pull the trigger. But because I am brainwashed by human instinct rather than human ideals, I could never do this. I'll meet with death in defense of my own children, not because they are mine but because they are children. In this I can only maintain faith in my superior resolve to harmlessly diffuse the situation, and 'Kill 'em all' sentiments such as the above-quoted are what drives my sheer will.

Well good for you then....

I pray then that you never actually find yourself in such a situation....... In situations like these, your inner most nature will emerge. And I can assure you you wont like it when it does...... few people do...... I only hope you have enough strength to recover from the mental anguish you'll experience.

 

[BigApplePi]

"Hey kid. Great gun ya got there. I got one too. Wanna see it."?

If you don't have time for that, you can run zig-zag or duck. If you don't have time for that, just defend yourself. Your object is to disable the shooter. If it's an AK-47, just shoot before they do.