I'd love to get some typing help from knowledgable INTP's ;)

[rrgjl]

Okay after trying several online tests and concluding that the questions are often too ambiguous for me, I am now trying to type myself based on the function descriptions.
I would like to get some help with this.

For the conclusions below I mostly used myersbriggs.org as a reference.

Introversion or Extroversion
I was usually typed as INTP by the tests, but I actually don't agree with this.
For example, I don't think I'm very introverted. I'm just quite insecure and socially awkward, which makes me act less extroverted than I actually am, but in principle I do enjoy social contact and can get energy out of it when with the right people.
For example, I also tend to get lonely when I've been alone at home for too long. Which could be just one day. I need to see people on a regular basis. So I think I'm E. Is this too short-sighted as a conclusion? I also enjoy discussing things with people, and actually enjoy attention somewhat as well, though it shouldn't be too much right now either as that again makes me feel insecure.

Sensing or Intuition
This one is tough.
I recognize myself in both. I am a hands-on person and learn fastest by doing instead of thinking about something. Also I'm very much a bottom-line person and want to know the net outcome or end result.
However, at the same time I am a creative thinker and love problem solving. I usually see many possibilities for solving problems, and also keep going where others stop and say 'this is just not possible.' (I'm actually not very persistent though. I tend to give up quickly when it comes to work or school). I'm also very interested in new experiences, new information, diversity.
So I guess you can see how I feel like I am both.

Thinking or Feeling
I seem mostly a thinker, as I enjoy science and logic. I notice inconsistencies in other people's thinking (notice != thinking it's wrong to be inconsistent). I do believe in being truthful more than being tactful, and when making a decision I do care mostly about facts.
However, again, I also recognize a lot of the Feeling disposition. I am a very communicative person, I do find harmony to be important -- tensions are uncomfortable to me and I always try to resolve them, I do find being compassionate important as well, and even though I care about the truth I would never JUST go for truth without looking at situation or person.

Judging or Perceiving
Again very two-sided here.
I am 'judging' in the sense that I do become more calm when things are orderly. And I do like to have my work before my play, so I don't have to think about work anymore when I play. And I do like to make lists of things to do, because if I don't I tend to forget (this might be learned behavior of course).
When it comes to perceiving, it's true I'm a bit lazy, I get more and more motivated by approaching deadlines, I'm always open to new information and possibilities, and I also don't like to be tied down. I do also like to approach work as play or make a mix, as I find more joy in my work that way (and being satisfied is most important to me).

 

[Etheri]

I recognize myself in both.

So I guess you can see how I feel like I am both.

I seem mostly a thinker
However, again, I also recognize a lot of the Feeling disposition.
Again very two-sided here.
I am 'judging' in the sense that I do become more calm when things are orderly. And I do like to have my work before my play, so I don't have to think about work anymore when I play.

I'm not exactly good at typing people and all. I assume you'll get much, much better advice from other people on here (Architect comes to mind?).

However, what I do know is that you're not one or the other. You don't display only N or only S traits. As you stated, you're abit of both. This is true for any of us, we're all abit of both. The question is merely which is more dominant, S or N.

Some of my functions are more dominant than others, and even the most dominant functions have their counterpart active, hidden inside me. I cannot tell you what your dominant functions are, but I can tell you that it's perfectly normal to think you have bits of everything inside you.

Lastly, typical advice from people on here is to use the 'functions' (Ti Ne Si Fe for INTP). Again, I'm not very knowledgable at this so i'll leave it to others, but I guess you could read into them and see if it brings any clarity.

 

[snafupants]

1) Sit in a room for ten minutes.

2) Track your thoughts.

3) Relate those thoughts here.

 

[rrgjl]

All thoughts? I'm quite random at the moment. I'm in the middle of a move so whenever there's some free braintime i tend to be thinking about that.
Edit: Actually I'm not random at the moment, I'm always random.

Thought when I went to the toilet and saw my hairy legs: It would be interesting to shave all of my body hair some time. Just to try it, to see what it looks like.

 

[PhoenixRising]

Do you have a video of yourself you could post? It's hard to tell what your functions are just by reading what you've written here.

If you do post a video, it would be good if it were at least a minute or more in duration, and you were as relaxed as possible while speaking.

Besides that, the descriptions you have here are probably too vague for anyone to accurately determine your type. Most of the descriptions of the functions I've seen online are somewhat misleading. Extroversion, for example, can include the ability to derive energy from people, but this isn't the best indicator of the I/E duality. Introverts can gain energy from people too, especially if they are in the right company and it's a somewhat short-term interaction. However, in my personal experience, being an introvert means that you do have to retreat into solitude from time to time in order to avoid becoming too drained. This isn't necessarily a universal trait of introverts though, as each type is different, and each individual a different variation of their type.

The true meaning of extroversion vs introversion is in the way one processes information. It is mainly based on your dominant function (Ti for an INTP). An INTP has two introverted functions (Ti, Si) and two extroverted (Ne, Fe). Ti is an introverted function because it is an internal process. When someone with Ti thinks, they stop and search within. Ne and Fe are extroverted functions, they seek outside information to draw information from and externalize thoughts into communication.

Both N and S are sensing functions, they analyze the environment and provide information for processing. The difference between them is subtle, but as I understand it, people who have Se rather than Ne perceive things in a more concrete way. When someone with Ne looks at the world, it is in an abstract way. It is more the impression of something, the theoretical idea of it, rather than the physical reality.

 

[rrgjl]

Don't interpret this the wrong way but I have no idea how I should turn that into something concrete: ", people who have Se rather than Ne perceive things in a more concrete way. When someone with Ne looks at the world, it is in an abstract way. It is more the impression of something, the theoretical idea of it, rather than the physical reality."

Can you give a more concrete example? What could they be looking at or thinking about, and how are the two Se and Ne different when doing so?

Are we talking about analyzing others' behavior, or what? I mean, most things in the world are concrete, aren't they? I wouldn't even know how to make a house or a car abstract.

 

[PhoenixRising]

Don't interpret this the wrong way but I have no idea how I should turn that into something concrete: ", people who have Se rather than Ne perceive things in a more concrete way. When someone with Ne looks at the world, it is in an abstract way. It is more the impression of something, the theoretical idea of it, rather than the physical reality."

Can you give a more concrete example? What could they be looking at or thinking about, and how are the two Se and Ne different when doing so?

Are we talking about analyzing others' behavior, or what? I mean, most things in the world are concrete, aren't they? I wouldn't even know how to make a house or a car abstract.

hmm.. Yes, describing the difference between Se and Ne is somewhat tricky. This is especially so because different types perceive things in different ways, due to the combination of their other functions with their sensing functions.

The best I can do to describe it is:

As an INTP (Ti/Ne), I look at a landscape and I notice the abstract perception of it first. The feeling of it hits me, much like looking at a painting, I don't see it as a tangible environment, it has more possibilities to it than just being what it is. Then my Ti takes the information being perceived and determines, "those are trees, specifically ponderosa pine; those are mountains, they are physical objects approximately 120 miles away from me.. etc, etc." The abstract world becomes concrete in this way, but as an internal projection of reality.

As I understand it, someone with Se, like an ESTP, would kind of mentally reach out and touch the landscape. It would be readily seen as a collection of tangible objects, each associated with physical sensations. Things would just be real without them thinking about it. "The air feels cold; I smell wet earth; those are mountains, they are blue, they are there, I recall the feeling of rock climbing; etc."

Most of what I know is rather subjective, based on my knowledge of the MBTI functions and my own personal analysis of people (including myself).

I recommend consulting a member on here named Auburn. He is quite knowledgeable about typology, I have learned a lot from him.

 

[Proletar]

Okay after trying several online tests and concluding that the questions are often too ambiguous for me, I am now trying to type myself based on the function descriptions.
I would like to get some help with this.

For the conclusions below I mostly used myersbriggs.org as a reference.

Introversion or Extroversion
I was usually typed as INTP by the tests, but I actually don't agree with this.
For example, I don't think I'm very introverted. I'm just quite insecure and socially awkward, which makes me act less extroverted than I actually am, but in principle I do enjoy social contact and can get energy out of it when with the right people.
For example, I also tend to get lonely when I've been alone at home for too long. Which could be just one day. I need to see people on a regular basis. So I think I'm E. Is this too short-sighted as a conclusion? I also enjoy discussing things with people, and actually enjoy attention somewhat as well, though it shouldn't be too much right now either as that again makes me feel insecure.

Sensing or Intuition
This one is tough.
I recognize myself in both. I am a hands-on person and learn fastest by doing instead of thinking about something. Also I'm very much a bottom-line person and want to know the net outcome or end result.
However, at the same time I am a creative thinker and love problem solving. I usually see many possibilities for solving problems, and also keep going where others stop and say 'this is just not possible.' (I'm actually not very persistent though. I tend to give up quickly when it comes to work or school). I'm also very interested in new experiences, new information, diversity.
So I guess you can see how I feel like I am both.

Thinking or Feeling
I seem mostly a thinker, as I enjoy science and logic. I notice inconsistencies in other people's thinking (notice != thinking it's wrong to be inconsistent). I do believe in being truthful more than being tactful, and when making a decision I do care mostly about facts.
However, again, I also recognize a lot of the Feeling disposition. I am a very communicative person, I do find harmony to be important -- tensions are uncomfortable to me and I always try to resolve them, I do find being compassionate important as well, and even though I care about the truth I would never JUST go for truth without looking at situation or person.

Judging or Perceiving
Again very two-sided here.
I am 'judging' in the sense that I do become more calm when things are orderly. And I do like to have my work before my play, so I don't have to think about work anymore when I play. And I do like to make lists of things to do, because if I don't I tend to forget (this might be learned behavior of course).
When it comes to perceiving, it's true I'm a bit lazy, I get more and more motivated by approaching deadlines, I'm always open to new information and possibilities, and I also don't like to be tied down. I do also like to approach work as play or make a mix, as I find more joy in my work that way (and being satisfied is most important to me).

INTJ.

J:

A crude sort of "rule of thumb" that I've come across is that both INTJs and ENTPs tend to be unsure of their type while INTPs and ENTJs tend to accept their type or atleast not question it in a board like this. This isn't everything on the other hand.

For example, you say that you are orderly in a passive kind of way? That you don't get energy or anything from having a neat house, but that you tend to keep it that way because a messy house takes energy from you? This reminds me of a question another INTJ asked many months ago. He asked "Do you have a junk-drawer?". He had a neat and orderly house but had one drawer with all the stuff he couldn't fit anywhere else, and he thought himself to be an INTP because of it. The answer he got was "Yes. In fact, my entire house is my junk-drawer". You see the difference?


Similarely, INTJs tend to be unsure if they are I or E, while ENTJs are sure of their extraversion. Introverted Intuition is not an active sort of function, but more of a storage-unit - remembering the facts. That's really the INTJ spectrum of intelligence - knowledge.

S or N? Well, obviously by the way this post is written, I can write you off as an N. You've dug into the essence of things rather than the appearance of them, juggling with abstract concepts. This is definetly N.

T or F? T.


INTJ.

 

[rrgjl]

Ok, now we have something to work with. I'd like to try to just throw some stuff at you and see if your perception changes. Of course I realize that also my behavior in this topic might shape me into something in your mind. That's great!

First of all, something that might go against the logical argument:
I'm a pretty emotional person. I'm not very stable in my emotions under stress or trouble, and they really go up and down over a day. Of course, when life is good, my emotions are stable.
I have noticed that I can for example also be really bothered when I don't feel at home in a certain social setting, or when I feel unaccepted. Maybe this is silly, but I always perceived the INT types as people who don't really care because it's not logical to them. They are (obviously exaggerated) compared to robots for a reason I'd say.
Again, if this can still be INTJ then that's great. I'm just testing here.

With regards to the introversion or extroversion, do you really think you can use that as a rule of thumb? Because, as I said, I can imagine an extroverted but insecure person to not be so sure what they are exactly. Probably also because they wrongly perceive introversion as shyness.

I do agree that I seem mostly T and N, but I'm trying to keep an open mind.

I still think it could be ENTP (or ENTJ). I'd say I'm more perceiving than judging, seeing my procrastinational behavior, lazyness, my tendency to change things without thinking it over properly (quitting school, changing jobs), etc.

Also, what I found hit amazingly home about the ENTP description, is this:

ENTPs are less interested in developing plans of actions or making decisions than they are in generating possibilities and ideas. Following through on the implementation of an idea is usually a chore to the ENTP. For some ENTPs, this results in the habit of never finishing what they start. The ENTP who has not developed their Thinking process will have problems with jumping enthusiastically from idea to idea, without following through on their plans. The ENTP needs to take care to think through their ideas fully in order to take advantage of them.

and

ENTPs are fluent conversationalists, mentally quick, and enjoy verbal sparring with others. They love to debate issues, and may even switch sides sometimes just for the love of the debate. When they express their underlying principles, however, they may feel awkward and speak abruptly and intensely.

These describe me exactly. I enjoy verbal sparring. Absolutely! And I also had to laugh about the 'changing sides.' That's exactly what I do.
Quitting something that I've started is also my life's story. I really need to change that, it gets quite frustrating and unfulfilling.

 

[Proletar]

Ok, now we have something to work with. I'd like to try to just throw some stuff at you and see if your perception changes. Of course I realize that also my behavior in this topic might shape me into something in your mind. That's great!

First of all, something that might go against the logical argument:
I'm a pretty emotional person. I'm not very stable in my emotions under stress or trouble, and they really go up and down over a day. Of course, when life is good, my emotions are stable.
I have noticed that I can for example also be really bothered when I don't feel at home in a certain social setting, or when I feel unaccepted. Maybe this is silly, but I always perceived the INT types as people who don't really care because it's not logical to them. They are (obviously exaggerated) compared to robots for a reason I'd say.
Again, if this can still be INTJ then that's great. I'm just testing here.

With regards to the introversion or extroversion, do you really think you can use that as a rule of thumb? Because, as I said, I can imagine an extroverted but insecure person to not be so sure what they are exactly. Probably also because they wrongly perceive introversion as shyness.

I do agree that I seem mostly T and N, but I'm trying to keep an open mind.

I still think it could be ENTP (or ENTJ). I'd say I'm more perceiving than judging, seeing my procrastinational behavior, lazyness, my tendency to change things without thinking it over properly (quitting school, changing jobs), etc.

Also, what I found hit amazingly home about the ENTP description, is this:



and



These describe me exactly. I enjoy verbal sparring. Absolutely! And I also had to laugh about the 'changing sides.' That's exactly what I do.
Quitting something that I've started is also my life's story. I really need to change that, it gets quite frustrating and unfulfilling.

Interesting!

While juggling with typing, you have to know that an INTP is not an introverted ENTP, and INTJ dito ENTJ. I'm still considering you for INTJ, but with this new information I'm more conflicted. Some things in your words are clockwork INTJ, and others really resemple that of the NTP.

The thing about INTJs is that they are not actively introverted since a percieving function (Ni) is not an active one. Similarely, the ENFPs are very introverted for extraverts. My ENFP-brother got typed as both ENFP, INFP, ENTP and INTP. Because he both needs time to be around people and time to be alone - relying on both his Ne and developing his Fi - the active, judging decision-maker of his is introverted. Also, since Te is his tertiary he enjoys strategy-games and the like. Some types tend to be unsure about much of themselves, mainly those who have a percieving function as their main, which is to say EPs and IJs... And especially intuitives.

With the judging functions as neighbours in the middle and with a percieving function on top, things get complicated. Really complicated. Similarely to the ENFPs, you would have Fi. So let me ask you a question. When you sympathise with people, do you directly feel for them or do you 'put yourself in their shoes' to get that effect? I have Fe, and because of this I for example can't watch people crying and being sad. Their story on the other hand doesn't touch me at all, since I automatically start detaching myself when they tell it. So what is it for you? The tears or the story? Fe or Fi? I think that's where we'll find the answer.


ENTPs really are the best, but the fluent conversationalist thing can belong to all the NTs and the ENs by extention. Take for example again my ENFP-brother. Social to the extreme, almost bordering to psychic. Fencing through a debate like furious chess is an NT-thing though, and from my experience, the scheming thing is shared by both the ENTP and the INTJ.

 

[snafupants]

That's really the INTJ spectrum of intelligence - knowledge.

@Proletar

Why am I not surprised to see such a one-dimensional misconception flying on this forum?

By implication, are you saying that INTPs lack knowledge? Four different functions...

 

[Proletar]

@Proletar

Why am I not surprised to see such a one-dimensional misconception flying on this forum?

By implication, are you saying that INTPs lack knowledge? Four different functions...

Yup. We don't deal with knowledge in the first place. I would rather call it vision or wisdom, or something like that. Afterall, Ni is a library and Ti is more of an analytical function. That doesn't mean we have no library whatsoever, but to liken our library to the INTJs would not make them justice.

My INTJ-friend knows the facts.
My ENTP-friend is smart.

Mirroring functions, different outcomes.


Edit: Just read your other thread about Si. To answer your question there: Yes. Ni is a memory-function. Not sensory information, but history, laws, all kinds of rules. INTJs have Ni as their main.

 

[rrgjl]

With the judging functions as neighbours in the middle and with a percieving function on top, things get complicated. Really complicated. Similarely to the ENFPs, you would have Fi. So let me ask you a question. When you sympathise with people, do you directly feel for them or do you 'put yourself in their shoes' to get that effect? I have Fe, and because of this I for example can't watch people crying and being sad. Their story on the other hand doesn't touch me at all, since I automatically start detaching myself when they tell it. So what is it for you? The tears or the story? Fe or Fi? I think that's where we'll find the answer.

Bwaaah that's a tough one.
Do you by the way have any good source for me on the functions? I've googled, but I find the sources I find there quite confusing. For example, you are talking about Introverted Intuition being a perceiving function, even though that person can still be F instead of P? That's so weird to me. It's probably mostly just a lack of better words? What's the point of P/F if you can still be perceiving without the P :/
I'm probably missing some stuff!

Anyway, as I said, your question is hard to answer. It's kind of a combination of story and tears. When I see any random person cry it doesn't necessarily make me sad for them. Sometimes it even annoys me. When I know someone, and I know they don't cry often or usually, it affects me more than when they cry regularly. Of course most people don't cry regularly, so in that sense I would say that with people I know it does affect me when they cry. And it affects me more than their story. The story still does also affect me though, but I guess that's more on a cognitive level. For example, when they tell me they have been treated badly by someone, I can definitely get angry at that person purely based on the story. So there's still emotion there.

 

[Mysty]

Well I am finding this whole thread very fascinating. When I read your OP you sounded like you we're describing me! Even in your later response you are the same as me too. Sadly, I cannot shine any additional light on your type, as I am not completely sure. I had settled on ENTP as being the most likely (but I don't think I am exactly the poster child of an ENTP, but then I have always been scoring close on the N/S and also T/F). However, another quite knowledgeable in typing INTJ suggested to me that the more I described my thought process the more it reminded her exactly of her thought process. I never thought she was a typical INTJ though - as in she was not a robot. Unfortunately I can't find the links she gave me to some really good sites which had some subtype descriptions, as they all went down in the black hole that was once ENTP.org!

I will watch this thread with interest.

 

[Mysty]

I will also answer the how do I respond to tears or story. I know that on occasion when other people's emotions are running very high (eg a funeral) I have felt a mirror-like feeling of their emotion, despite not personally being upset about the persons death (not a person close to me). This is however rare. I have children, and I don't find myself feeling their sadness at all -sometimes I try to make myself try to feel sad with them, but it is an effort.

If someone tells me their sad story I force myself to make the appropriate commiseration type noises etc. not very good at it though. I tend to ask them details about how it happened and other such unempathetic things.

However, if I read the story I frequently seem to slip into their shoes and will end up with tears pouring down my face feeling the pain of losing a child (it only tends to be loss of a child, and only since I had my own children that this started happening to me). If it is a well written novel I can feel almost as though I am the character and experiencing the emotions the character is feeling. I am actually convinced though that I only understand other people's emotions via reading novels.

 

[Mysty]

How odd, I posted another post before the one above, and it has not appeared yet?
Anyway, it said that RRGJL sounds exactly like me!

 

[rrgjl]

@Proletar , any thoughts on my last post?
I made the enneagram test today as well, and got 4w3.
Individualist - achiever.
This is a very accurate description of me. Especially the individualist.

 

[Proletar]

@Proletar , any thoughts on my last post?
I made the enneagram test today as well, and got 4w3.
Individualist - achiever.
This is a very accurate description of me. Especially the individualist.

@rrgjl:

I've been pondering for an answer, but I'm not done yet. I'll return to you when I have the time and something proper to tell you. That's a promise.

 

[rrgjl]

I'm just going to keep throwing some stuff in here if you don't mind.

I found this other explanation of 4w3 that totally describes me again (and makes me kind of seem like an F...?) :

Average 4/3 is emotionally spicy. Because of the conflict between the three-wing's desire to be in the spotlight and the four's self-conscious fear of exposure, they may alternate between extremes of extroversion and introversion. Unlike the cooler 3/4s, 4/3s may find it difficult (if not impossible) to stay calm when emotions come up. They are more likely to talk about their overwhelming feelings than the much more rational, analytical, withdrawn 4/5s.

And sometimes I'm like this:

When 4/3 becomes deeply self-aware, there is a feeling of tremendous emotional integrity. Others feel that they are genuinely being heard, but not judged in any way. Somehow the advanced 4/3 manages to be both an equal and a teacher, both a sympathetic listener and a disciplined advisor. Real transformations happen in the lives of those who tell their stories to such people. People become powerfully motivated to find the real meaning in their lives.