I Wish I Liked Vegetables

[duchess]

But I don't.

And it's very upsetting to me, because I want to be healthy. Sometimes I force myself to eat vegetables just to be healthy, but it really isn't an enjoyable experience. For example a few weeks ago I bought a whole package of chopped celery and ate it a little bit every day, but it wasn't a great experience. Celery is so hard to chew your jaw starts hurting after a while.

I have gotten a little better with fruit. I found I really like ORGANIC (only) cantaloupe when chopped in pieces and eaten with soy yogurt. I love this. Other fruit - I notice blueberries go bad really fast - although I do like them - same with other berries. So I don't buy them that often. (Note: I try to only buy organic; but they don't stay good nearly as long.)

Yesterday I had 3 apricots for breakfast and it was...ok but not that great. I like apricots in pastries, etc, but eating fruit by itself is just... hard for me.

I wish I could find a way to like vegetables and I just wonder if people are BORN liking vegetables or if it is an acquired taste, or does it have to do with how you were raised - what you grew up eating? I don't recall that I ate that many vegetables as a child but there were some. Overall my natural inclination when it comes to food seems to be carbs.

(sorry if this post is in the wrong place; i am new here and wasn't sure where to put it.)

(and I just realized I posted this in Announcements; sorry)

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

I think this is more of a lounge type topic.....saying you don't like veggies isn't really an announcement. Coming out of the closet during the holidays, being told you just won the Nobel prize for Physics......THOSE are announcements!

Now as to the veggie thing, they are an aquired taste. The right preparation can go a long way in aquiring said taste. Don't just eat celery (which doesn't offer much healthwise anyway) but actually make something with your veggies. Example: I hate the taste of broccoli, always have, UNLESS! I steam it and drizzle it with sesame oil. Now it certainly doesn't take the place of cheesecake on the delicious scale but I find it a nice accompaniment to other parts of a meal. Try not eating them plain or raw. Especially at first.

 

[flow]

Ranch is a good way to ween yourself into the deliciousness of broccoli and carrots. Of course, ranch is an american thing I'm thinking, so idk if you're familiar.. are you American?! Whatever. I recently acquired a taste for tomatoes. They're quite good on burgers, in salads, etc. I pretty much love fruits and vegetables.. but I've never really been a picky eater.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

ranch is also kinda creamy and kinda neutralizes the health benefits of vegetables? (Though still, it's better than eating cheeseburger...)

Balsamic vinegar dressings all the way & all day!

My grandmother had a salad dressing that's good...

Grandma's salad dressing:
3 tbsp oil (vegetable oil?)
2 tbsp vinegar
3 tbsp H2O
1.5 tsp salt
1 tsp garlic powder

Put into a mason jar and shake vigorously.

Put it in with some cucumbers, tomatoes and lettuce. It's nom. I don't even like cucumbers.

Also, steamed broccoli & peas are awesome.

Asparagus can become extinct!! Way too easy to under- or over-steam asparagus, and it's terrible either way.

 

[sagewolf]

I love vegetables, but not eating them was never an option when I was little. Some I do like more than others, but things like broccoli, carrots, cauliflower, and most others steamed (crunchy, in other words, but still cooked and hot), I like with soy sauce drizzled over them.

Okay. I like them essentially soaked in it. Basically, just find a sauce you like and drizzle it over them, as IB and flow said. If it'sthe texture you don't like, try adjusting the cooking times, eating different vegetables, or just cutting them up small enough to swallow without chewing (which is my technique for mushrooms). Hope that helps... I'm the same way with fruit, but liking veggies helps to make up for it.

 

[warryer]

You made a classic mistake of starting with celery, rookie move I hate celery. I generally stick to eating corn, greenbeans, brocoli, and spinach.

Greenbeans are pretty mild and easy to cook. After boiling toss on some olive oil, pepper and garlic salt.

 

[bananaphallus]

A slice of tomato, with aged provolone or some other sort of sharp/bitter cheese toasted on an everything bagel and then drizzled with olive oil/Italian seasoning = success.

If it's the nutritional benefits you're after, and the mere thought of jamming yourself in the face with vegetables saps you of your will to live, why not find some sort of multivitamin or supplement? They for for the most part taste of trash and dirt, but you've only got to put up with their shenanigans for one-two seconds max, then it's down the hatch, and as far as your body is concerned, it's as if you've eaten several dozen heads of lettuce...the pills might be worth a look.

 

[Döden]

Srsly, celery is the scourge of the vegetable world.
Try Green Giant microwave veggies. I love them and eat probably 3 or 4 weekly. I am probably ingesting tons of chemicals in the plastics under the guise of being "healthy" but they're worth a try. Also, have you tried edamame? Soybeans. You can warm them and pop them out of the pid. They are reminiscent of lima beans in appearance but they kick lima beans' legume ass.

Edit: Apparently I have been using "scourge" incorrectly all these years.
Ah well, new meaning is still in my own personal dictionary

 

[flow]

Spinach! Yes.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

If we're looking for good light dressings for raw vegetables, might I suggest this (which is freakin' awesome!):

1/2 cup olive oil
1/2 cup white wine vinegar
1/2 cup dijon mustard

Mix with wire whisk until an emulsion forms.

Add a bit of black pepper, a half teaspoon of dried parsley a full teaspoon of marjoram.

Let sit about 10 minutes (you may need to mix it some more if it starts to separate.

 

[sagewolf]

^I prefer vinegarette, but I might pass that on to my mom. She loves dijon. (And refuses to get it anywhere but France. Ireland's dijon isn't good enough. )

 

[Kuu]

I happen to suffer from a mild version of this as well.

Don't stop with just dressings and sauces. Go the asian way, and make the vegetables integral to the dish. Keep them mixed, instead of separated, and you'll find yourself eating a LOT of them. If they're all alone by themselves, I tend to avoid them like the plague.

Broccoli soup and tomato soup are great, btw.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

a full teaspoon of marjoram.

Heh. At first I thought it said something else.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Heh. At first I thought it said something else.

Well now that you mention it, a full teaspoon of that will make you want to eat all your vegetables along with everything else.....

duchess? We have the solution!!

 

[Cameron]

I unfortunately have no magical solution for your ailment, but as an avid lover of vegetables (and all food in general) I thought I'd chip in with a little bit about my personal relationship with vegetables.

As with most food ingredients, I always look forward to the adventure that is exploring the possibilities of a new vegetable.

At the lowest level, here you have this vehicle for collecting energy from the sun and repurposing it to sustain your metabolism (which in itself is quite amazing to think about)-- but it's so much more than that, with its own specific taste, texture, color, shape, water content, acidity, nutritional value, etc.

Now, the question of cooking is, essentially: how can we take advantage of these properties to expand our eating experience beyond being merely a routine biological necessity and turn it into something to be enjoyed?

To do that, you need to get to know the vegetable.

As a first step, learning how to "process" the vegetable (going from PLANT to FOOD) can be very rewarding: how to cut it, which parts most people eat, which parts some people eat, which parts nobody eats. For some reason, I find even this simple thing immensely satisfying.

Next you come to the application of heat, and the pairing with other ingredients:

• Try it raw (perhaps with an accompaniment, as many here have suggested. Slices of ripe avocado with a little soy sauce will make you think you're eating tuna. Salt brings out the taste of cantaloupe. If you have no cheese on hand, tomatoes can also go great with a dab of mayonnaise. Cabbage goes well with miso, plain or spicy.)
• Steam it (and then maybe add some butter, or even cheese?)
• Sauté/stir-fry it (along with other things, most likely. Try to mix colors! It'll ensure a good variety, and probably make the whole dish look more appetizing.)
• Roast it (wrap it in aluminum foil with a little bit of oil, salt, and pepper, and throw it in the oven for a while! Again, if you can mix a variety of things here you're less likely to get bored.)
• Stew it! (a particularly good option for winter; possibly with spices. Curry, anyone?)

By the time you've experimented with all of this, you'll likely have found a way to prepare the vegetable such that it agrees with your taste-- or, at the very least, you can feel less guilty for disliking it.

As for celery, I agree with those saying that it is on the boring side-- but I wouldn't give up on it just yet. I'd recommend either using it in a stir-fry (I'm imagining it with peanuts), or perhaps in some sort of stew where it could soak up other flavors (the first thing that comes to mind is a sweet-sour tomato-based soup, like this Vietnamese one.) Oh yeah, it can also go in Thanksgiving-style stuffing!

Now that you've got me started thinking about different dishes, it's kind of hard to stop... What about this vegetable stew? Together with bread, or maybe even on pasta if you make it thick enough!

Okay, I think I've gone on for way too long at this point, but one final thought: if there is one in your area, try going to a farmers market. It's always fun to see what's in season, freshness can make a huge difference in deliciousness, and you may be surprised to find things you didn't even know existed! Most recently, I've discovered raw kohlrabi to be an awesome snack food.

Good luck,
Cameron

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

As for celery, I agree with those saying that it is on the boring side-- but I wouldn't give up on it just yet.

Actually, celery is a very important ingredient as a flavor catalyst. It's very much like parsley in that regard. Most people think of parsley as the lazy chef's idea of a garnish. If you ever eat that garnish, it's hard to imagine what use it's flavor could have but it's not it's specific flavor that's important. What's important is how it interacts with other flavors. If you see parsley on an ingredients list and think to yourself "aw, I can skip that" then you've made a very bad decision. The same is often the case with celery. Almost all soups have it in some fashion, when you see a call for stock or broth then celery was one of the key ingredients for making either of those two. If you make a stock without celery (and parsley for that matter) then use that stock in your soup, your soup will end up about 3 or 4 notches lower on the ol' taste o' meter.

Raw celery on the other hand is as boring as matzoh crackers.

Cameron and Kuu have the right idea here. Try not to think of your veggies as just stand alone side dishes. Incorporate them with other things and you'll find them very easy to eat.

 

[Cognisant]

Two words: Stir Fry.

I used to be really picky, but after exploring various cultures I've come to appreciate food in all it's forms, I've eaten everything from scorpions (cooked) to stuff I don't even know how to describe.

 

[beastie]

do a Heston Blumenthal and make veggies (instead of fruit)
http://www.eatmedaily.com/2009/03/meat-fruit-on-heston-blumenthals-medieval-feast-video/

 

[Kassie]

Well, I grew up in (literally) the middle of nowhere. I lived on a farm in Nebraska for a long time until my family moved to a smallish town about a half hour away. So, naturally, we ate several vegetables that we grew. Mainly, we ate corn on the cob. When sweet corn is boiled (I think for about 10 minutes) it's very good. Then we have a stick of butter sitting on a small plate and we roll our corn cobs over that and it's delicious.

It's probably not healthy, but it sure tastes really good and when you try it you'll eat it all season (until the corn runs out). We eat it almost every night when harvest season comes around.

Also, I second Ore's idea about stir fry. It makes almost any food, no matter how much you hate it, taste good.

 

[duchess]

Yeah, I do like edamame, but I forget about it (thank you for reminding me again).

I also (relatively) like green beans, peas, corn. What is weird is that I do not find myself naturally inclining to eat these things when I get hungry. I have to make a conscious effort. On the other hand I can mindlessly and without effort eat things like smartdogs, unchicken nuggets, mashed potatoes with white gravy, and fried fish.

What I also notice is vegetables do not fill me up the way other things do, and this gets annoying. Because I don't like being hungry again 30 minutes after I eat. Carbs, I never have this problem.

I do take vitamins and supplements but there's of course a whole debate about how effective those are. Some people say vitamins cannot replace the nutritional value of "real" healthy food. Then there are others who say one will never be able to eat enough vegetables (etc) in a day to get the nutrients they need.

Cooking might play a part - that's how you have the whole raw food theory - that foods are most healthy when they are uncooked. If they are cooked in any way, they start losing their nutrients...? And it depends on how you are cooking them....it gets confusing trying to figure out the truth...still I think eating vegetables any way you can get them down is better than NO vegetables at all, which is where I usually am.

Sometimes I think about this: doctors do not endorse supplements because they are not regulated by the FDA. So what's really in them? I don't know, but I still take the following almost every day: fish oil (or flax seed oil), an 8-strain probiotic, a multi-antioxidant (containing quercetin, Co-Q-10, selenium, vitamin C, etc, all in one), chlorella (anti-mercury agent), and sometimes a food-based multi-vitamin. I also have other specific supplements which I don't take every day (because it gets to be a lot of pills to swallow), but every so often I will take them.

I used to also take beta glucan daily but I am unsure if there is any value in it.

I also drink only distilled water. But there is a whole debate about that too - which water is the best - distilled or reverse osmosis or whatever.

 

[snowqueen]

Cameron's response is so deliciously INTP I want to scoop him up and eat him!!

Stir fry definitely transforms veggies.

Your comment about chewing is interesting - if you've been brought up on 'brown' food (burgers buns french fries etc) then I think that it's true that eating real food actually hurts your jaw at first! The son of an ex boyfriend of mine was like that and it took me a while to get him to eat anything I made for him.

Have you ever tried roasted vegetables? Try it - carrots, parsnips, beetroot, peppers, onions and of course potatoes. Just chop them, drizzle with olive oil and put in some fresh herb like rosemary or thyme and cook them in the oven till tender.

 

[Cobra]

Are you vegan? That would be sad.

There are many other ways to become familiar with vegetables than to just simply pick them up and start eating them.

Come check this out (haven't updated it in a while, but w/e. Soon.):

http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=4462

 

[Polaris]

But......celery is good.....don't punish the celery, pls

I like to cut up nice, in-season crunchy celery and carrots into sticks and put on a plate (to save time, I've already prepared a plate: *magically produces beautifully arranged plate of carrot and celery sticks*) Then:

Mix some Greek-style yoghurt with 1/2 teaspoon of paprika, 1/2 teaspoon of oregano and some garlic powder.

Dunk celery and carrots in dip, and enjoy.......

I lived in South-Korea for a while, and while I was there I was introduced to this dynamite of a dish that is pretty much served with everything: (Warning: it is hot, but strangely addictive)

Explosive Korean Kimchee :

Slice up half a Chinese cabbage. Put into bowl.

Chop up 4-5 spring onions (or scallions, as they say in the US), and add to bowl.

Pour over 1-2 tablespoons of sesame oil.

Crush 2 cloves of garlic and add. Chop 1-2 red chillies and add.

Pour over 2-3 tablespoons of hot Asian chilli-sauce (you can find all this in the Asian section in the supermarket), then sprinkle with a handful of sesame seeds.

Mix well, and put in fridge for an hour or so. Serve with fish or meat and steamed rice. It is incredibly tasty and also healthy. Garlic and chilli are great for your immune-system, and sesame seeds are very nutritious.

 

[duchess]

I am a vegetarian, but I eat fish. No other meat, though.

I am sort of vegan in that I avoid dairy and buy vegan items when possible/available. My preferred eating lifestyle is 100% vegan, but I'm not quite there yet. I do very much believe in the vegan diet, for health and ethical reasons.

I will try the suggestions for eating vegetables. Thank you everyone for your replies.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Wait a minute......you're a vegetarian and you don't like vegetables?

*headache from obituary thread gets worse*

Somedays I wonder why I bother getting out of bed.

 

[timmymayes]

Hello...been lurking around and this post forced me to register because it strikes very true to a recent dilemma I had. (I am INTP in case anyone is wondering. I know there are is a mix here at the ole *INTP*forum, which is awesome.)

One of my biggest interests in the last few years has been health. I've struggled with weight my whole life. I'm only 5'3 but at one point topped the scales at 210 lbs. My lowest in the last couple years has been 165. Right now I'm closer to 185 (my ultimate goal is not a LBS but to have my body fat percentage to 10% - just an aside to prevent people from thinking i have issues with mirror / scale) and no its not muscle .

Being the good little INTP that I am I started devouring information on nutrition and health. I soon came to the consensus that I didn't just want to lose some weight I want become really healthy. No cancer, heart attack or other degenerative diseases for me please.

For the longest time I was an ardent anti vegetarian / vegan. Not so much in the sense that I hate you if you are one. More like "Hi! Got any meat? Awesome now put it on some bread with cheese plz!!" I've fought veggies hard...but the veggies fought harder...damn chlorophyll. As of the new year I will be 100% vegetarian for life. A long one I hope. Lots of good books and studies have brought me to my knees on this but that will have to be another post.

My point is this. I was not much of a veggie eater in the sense of actually eating them, just didn't really like them. Sure I knew I needed them, I love cooking so I even loved reading recipes on how to make them. I loved how colorful they are sitting in my shopping cart. OH BUT THE TASTE.

Then I sort of stumbled upon the answer. Before I fully committed to the idea of being vegetarian I had been reading other things about health. Typical stuff like supplements and exercise but also crazier stuff like fasting. To me fasting, specifically water fasting, sounded like the coolest thing ever. More proof of how perfect and efficient our bodies are. Ever since reading about fasting, and I've done A LOT. One of my major life goals is to do a 30 day water only fast, again a topic for another post. In the meantime I've been working up to it. To date I've done a 3 day water only fast, an 8 day juice fast and a 7 day water fast. All were great experiences but I'm not a big fan of juice fasts.

During my latest fast of 7 days on water only I read "Eat To Live" By Dr Joel Fuhrman. This was the straw that broke this camel on vegetarianism. Its a great read and the knowledge from that book alone can be very empowering. I originally bought the book because I mistakenly thought it had a lot of info on fasting. I was happily wrong. The book actually got me so excited about his diet due to all the positive information in it that i couldn't wait to try it, I intended the 7 days to be 14 originally.

Coming out of a fast is a very slow processes that you have to take very seriously and carefully. But I kid you not when I say that I ate a lime like an orange and found it deliciously sweet. The same went for romaine lettuce and watermelon. The latter of which I used to hate because it was no where near as sweet as my favorite sodas or a glass of juice.

I realized the problem in the past was that I would come off of the fasts with straight up juice and some veggies I normally like then went back to eating foods that dull your taste buds with an over-abundance of sugar and salt.

Lots of my friends enjoy veggies but I hated them until I fasted. That being said don't jump into a fast without researching it first. Feel free to PM if you have any questions.

Just my two cents...ok as I re-read the post its more like seventy three cents... I wanted you to have the full back story.

Look forward to many more posts from me.

Cheers,
TimmyMayes

P.S. I just read that you are a vegetarian..OH NOES!!!...you have to read Eat To Live....don't be a bread & pasta vegetarian...its not much healthier than the MAD / SAD diet. (Modern american / Standard american Diets.)

 

[snowqueen]

Hi Timmy

Welcome to the forum. I'm not a fan of fasting myself - I think it messes about with the body's metabolism and there's lots of evidence that it promotes weight gain however carefully you do it. Nonetheless you do what you want! Just wanted to say that actually simply giving up all added sugar in your diet will make you taste vegetables and fruit as sweet. In fact giving up all added sugar reduces your appetite naturally.

The best way to lose weight is portion control - just eat half of what you normally eat for a month and you'll lose weight easily.

 

[timmymayes]

Portion control doesn't really work all that well for the vast majority because it sets you up for failure. I've tried it many times. Changing the quality of food is much more key than just eating half. The way fullness is measured is by stretch receptors on the actual stomach as well as nutrient content of the food. When you eat alot of low calorie dense food you are eating half the calories and twice the food, in essense not exactness. When you merely cut what you eat in half you might initially lose weight but you eventually lose out to the fact that its very hard to maintain a portion control type diet. It is a heavy contributor to the "yo-yo" style of dieting.

Eat less for a while lose 10-20 lbs. Then after a while lose control gain it back. Rinse & repeat. Yo - yo / rollercoaster. Not a major issue if it happens once or twice but after doing it for years what you do is say 2-4 lbs of that 20 is muscle...well when you go off the diet and back up to your normal eating level and gain 20 lbs back. If you weren't working out none of it is muscle. Repeat that cycle 4 or 5x and you've now lost 20lbs of muscle...thats a huge hit to your metabolism.

As far as fasting and metabolism are concerned there is a slow down of the metabolism but the body doesn't just shut its metabolism down and not pick it back up. The body's metabolism is very quick to adjust. obviously having more muscle mass increases your metabolism's base line. Consider that your metabolism grinds to a halt in just a few days without food to help with energy use. It can slow down and speed up in days. Also water only fasting puts you into ketosis (you may be familiar with it if you have ever read about atkins) which is muscle sparing. This is why i prefer water fasting to juice fasting.

The other health benefit of fasting is that when your body is in need of calories it will eat unhealthy tissue over healthy tissue. Its the reason that fasting is an ancient form of medicine. Its not one of those 100% you're going to fix this or that but it def clears up many issues.

Its not a thing that a lot of people study these days but fasting is generally a very safe practice and immensely healthy. Many calorie restriction studies these days are findng that the majority of species actually gain upto 30% increase in lifespan via intermittent fasting.

Sorry if I came off all butt hurt its just that being a fan of fasting I've had my fair share of nay sayers making unfounded claims about how unsafe fasting is without ever really thinking about it but merely repeating what they remember reading somewhere once.

And again another huge post....hahah oops.

Hi Timmy

Welcome to the forum. I'm not a fan of fasting myself - I think it messes about with the body's metabolism and there's lots of evidence that it promotes weight gain however carefully you do it. Nonetheless you do what you want! Just wanted to say that actually simply giving up all added sugar in your diet will make you taste vegetables and fruit as sweet. In fact giving up all added sugar reduces your appetite naturally.

The best way to lose weight is portion control - just eat half of what you normally eat for a month and you'll lose weight easily.

 

[Starfruit M.E.]

I like to just grab new stuff at the store and try it during the week. I like putting vinegar on most veggies. I actually do like raw celery. I also like celery soup. But if you don't like veggies plain, the ideas people have been giving are great. The general idea is to enhance your other foods with veggies.

If you want to sneak veggies into your carbs, try the following:

diced tomatoes in grilled cheese
stew and soup (as others have mentioned)
make your own bread with leafy veggies in it
put leafy veggies in pasta (they cook down, so you can add a lot, and when you have sauce, you can't taste the veggies)
Carrot juice can fit in a fruit based drink... it's a sweet veggie
throw random veggies into sandwiches... leafy ones, tomatoes, shredded carrots...
Bake cut up potatoes and parsnips like stringy french fries with a little oil and salt

 

[aracaris]

Its not a thing that a lot of people study these days but fasting is generally a very safe practice and immensely healthy. Many calorie restriction studies these days are findng that the majority of species actually gain upto 30% increase in lifespan via intermittent fasting.

Fasting isn't for everyone though, I think for someone like myself it would be quite dangerous, it doesn't even take a whole day without food to cause me to reach the point of fainting. I'm one of those people whom almost always is thinking about food, and can get highly agitated when I don't have access to it. No benefiting from calorie reduction for me, at least not until the negative consequences can be properly dealt with anyhow. I think that a person really needs to know what their body can handle if they are going to push themselves by doing something like fasting, maybe it's fine for some, but not for all.

 

[Starfruit M.E.]

Since this thread is already derailed...

Fasting for a reasonable amount of time will not physically harm you if you are an adult. It is not a matter of whether your body can handle it. It may be a mental battle though. I've found that spending time meditating, praying, reading, or sitting outside, especially during meal times, helps. In normal fasting, you may experience normal signs of discomfort in your stomach, head, or muscles. In your situation, you may have a health problem with blood sugar levels.

I would highly promote fasting before making big decisions (my mind tends to be very clear by the end of the day), but fasting for the sake of not eating makes little sense to me.

Keep in mind that when you fast your metabolism slows down, so the next day, take it slow and healthy with adding food back into your diet. If you don't you'll tend to gain wait for a few days before it catches up.

 

[aracaris]

Since this thread is already derailed...

Fasting for a reasonable amount of time will not physically harm you if you are an adult. It is not a matter of whether your body can handle it. It may be a mental battle though. I've found that spending time meditating, praying, reading, or sitting outside, especially during meal times, helps. In normal fasting, you may experience normal signs of discomfort in your stomach, head, or muscles. In your situation, you may have a health problem with blood sugar levels.

That's what I thought, but so far haven't proven, so who knows. Regardless, people don't necessarily know if they have medical issues, and blood sugar problems are somewhat common, so people should be careful, and be aware it could be dangerous for them to go long periods without food, or with only very little food.

 

[FusionKnight]

Going back to the vegetable issue, my family eats much less vegies than my wife's family. After we got married I often felt like I hadn't eaten anything when they made a meal of just salad and fruit, or small portions of a large variety of fruits and vegetables.

However, as I got used to it, the feeling of always being hungry after those kinds of meals went away. I think it was mostly just psychological expectations of what is "food' and what produces fullness. Also, since getting married, we've eaten way less meat than I was previously used to, mostly just because meat is expensive. Now I can make amazing pasta dishes or stir frys that contain no meat, but I never even think about it. I think it's mainly a matter of mental expectations.