I need intp advice. Urgently.

[Rook]

Ah, my call for help has caught your attention then.

This is the situation: This is my third day at an university I did not really want to attend. I made an impulsive move, and it was the wrong one.

I now find a much too conservative setting, with over emphasis on pride and obedience.
I have made the desicion to leave this place.
One problem though: My parents have already made a large deposit, and I am not certain if it can be reclaimed.

If I stay, I commit myself to an institution that inhibits my mind, and made me want to commit mass murder due its inherent flaws.
If I leave, I may do serious financial harm to my parents, and may never be forgiven.

This is the biggest decision of my life.
What say you?

 

[Seed-Wad]

Step 1: Inform with your University student office whether you can get a full or partial refund if you decide to drop out.

Step 2: If you can get nothing or only a little back, decide whether you can make do with what the university does offer you, ways of minimizing the worser aspects.

Step 3: Post your deliberations on step 2 here and see if we can help you get your priorities straight (i.e. determining what is more import in your life decisions).

Step 2.5 might be, although perhaps not very INTPish, to pry your parents for information on how they would feel if you would not be at your ease at your new university. Maybe they would find it worse if they paid money to keep you in a place where you don't belong and that will do more damage than good, instead of losing some money and giving you a better shot at a different university? I don't know... it's possible that some parents think that way.

 

[Jennywocky]

^^ Agreed on that.

First step is to research what is possible, ASAP, and know exactly what your options are and the ramifications for choosing each. One big question: Are you committed to a semester or to a full year? A semester isn't the end of the world, if you are penalized too heavily for withdrawing at this stage, and credits can carry elsewhere probably (but you need to check on that too).

I wouldn't involve your parents until you have all the information at your disposal. The more you know, the better off you'll be in that discussion. Also, if you research it and know all the details, they'll be more inclined to accept that this isn't an impulsive decision but one you are thinking through.

But all this should occur ASAP. Good luck. People here will no doubt give you more feedback as you ask.

 

[Rook]

Your steps are logical, and step 1 is a must do, but here's the horrible twist: The money is loaned.
A deep grave indeed.

Regarding step 2, no. I have been honest with myself. If I don't drop out now, I will in the future. My mind is too inhibited in this place. The academic facilities are laughable etc etc.

2.5 is tricky. I know my parents place my subjective whims above their financial well being, and that is why I feel immense guilt(for an intp, anyway) as to the repurcussions.

 

[QuickTwist]

For fear that you may commit mass murders, I would say the most important thing to do is talk to someone IRL about your problems. See a psychologist and a good one. Tell your parents that you need to withdraw from school and get some professional help.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

What does the University give you?
Seemingly: A prospect of peaceful period to develop your abilities, not really related to what you are studying.
Dropping out?
A prospect of you gaining faster independence if you wish so. Getting a Job and sorting out your life on your own.

If you understand the flaws and inhibition, it ceases to exist. You can do whatever you wish on the University as long as you pass from one semester to the next.

What could possibly inhibit you? A few lecutres that you are going to attend? You don't usually have to. A few classes that you are going to take? A few exams?

Unless it is something you cannot handle and you desire to quickly face your life problems then you are already confident in your ability or chances. As you are not confident in your ability to handle this unpleasant situation what is left to you?
Could you possibly return to your parents and waste your time, do you wish to go back to the times when everything was easier?

It depends how you were raised i think:
Could you make your parents lose their loaned money and live with them at ease? Or would you desire to give them their money back.

Could you simply discard this opportunity because you were unprepared? What is your next action after this? Return? Independence and work? Studying somewhere else, I doubt that unless you convince yourself you are going to find a non restricting schedule and academic regime, that is quite easy imo.

 

[Jennywocky]

I guess another question is:

If you leave, what are your options? Transfer to another school? Get a job? Stay at home for a semester/year? I'm not sure if you can get into another school at this stage, since classes are starting... how does that work?

Also, not as recrimination but so that you can recognize your own patterns and avoid them in the future: How did you end up going to this school and immediately recognizing you hate it so much within the first few days, without recognizing it before now? It doesn't make a lot of sense to rush pell-mell from a situation you are finding unpalatable if the same processes are in place and you could be running into yet another similar situation.

 

[Rook]

For fear that you may commit mass murders, I would say the most important thing to do is talk to someone IRL about your problems. See a psychologist and a good one. Tell your parents that you need to withdraw from school and get some professional help.

Ah, I may have exaggerated. The majority of people here simply irritate me, to closed minded and focused on human constructs.

A twisted expression of my irritation, but it may give some indication of mental disturbance.

 

[Seed-Wad]

If you are going to drop out anyways, you might better do so sooner than later. But as Jenwok said, it is better for your position in the discussion if you can show you've put some deep thought and work into it, instead of stressing out and hysterically deserting (no offense, I know I at least have made some important decisions that way).

And yeah, I think guilt and pride are actually large parts of the INTP's psyche? I'm not an expert, but if you put so much faith in your own reasoning and persona, then you've got to keep your self-respect at a high at all times, right?

But yeah, get that step 1 info, maybe even go to a student counselor if your university has one. Mention the killing urges and I bet they will let you go together with your money

Edit: JW has some very good points! Get a good drink, sit pensively on a sofa next to a fire and spend an evening contemplating her points, it will be good for you

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Ah, I may have exaggerated. The majority of people here simply irritate me, to closed minded and focused on human constructs.

A twisted expression of my irritation, but it may give some indication of mental disturbance.

This is a principle behind close-mindedness, please be mindful of this.

Irritation is not tolerance and openness.

 

[Rook]

I guess another question is:

If you leave, what are your options? Transfer to another school? Get a job? Stay at home for a semester/year? I'm not sure if you can get into another school at this stage, since classes are starting... how does that work?

Also, not as recrimination but so that you can recognize your own patterns and avoid them in the future: How did you end up going to this school and immediately recognizing you hate it so much within the first few days, without recognizing it before now? It doesn't make a lot of sense to rush pell-mell from a situation you are finding unpalatable if the same processes are in place and you could be running into yet another similar situation.

The thought of a gap year sounds best. It will allow me to orden my thoughts and prevent another major error.

I ended up here by not giving a shit in high school. I got lower maths marks and so missed the requirements for the physics degree I was planning to take at a respected university. This university had lower requiremnets for a similar course, I got caught up in an irrational hype and need to 'escape', and took the gamble.
To sum up, I didn't think it through. At all.

 

[Puffy]

Ah, I may have exaggerated. The majority of people here simply irritate me, to closed minded and focused on human constructs.

A twisted expression of my irritation, but it may give some indication of mental disturbance.

Are you certain this is a problem specific to this particular university? I didn't meet many inquisitive minds in honesty when I was there (at undergraduate level, graduate was a little different but not too much) -- made a few close friends then hermit'd it. Most went for the party-social atmosphere and to put off getting a job (and this was still a respected institution.)

The most important question is whether the research focus there/ module options you have are in what you're interested in, and the quality of staff and facilities. It sounds like you're saying the latter isn't great... Are you able to re-do your Maths stuff to get a better grade? Best to make a plan for how you're going to get into a better institution in advance so you can use your gap year well (if that's your plan.)

 

[Seed-Wad]

Are you certain this is a problem specific to this particular university? I didn't meet many inquisitive minds in honesty when I was there (at undergraduate level, graduate was a little different but not too much) -- made a few close friends then hermit'd it. Most went for the party-social atmosphere and to put off getting a job (and this was still a respected institution.

I must say, I had expected my university to be a lot more... university-like too. I've been to the WUR, Netherlands, the highest rated university of my country.

A lot of people actually became annoyed at some of the questions I asked, proclaiming that 'it isn't part of the curriculum' and even some of my better friends were surprised that I spent extra time on some subjects just because I found them interesting.

I guess we must accept that the golden age of universities is over and that a once noble institution has turned into a labourer factory, in total submission to the technostructure.

 

[TimeAsylums]

unfortunately, I am with Puffy, are you sure this is university-specific, and could not be people in general?

If it's people in general, tough it out, get over it, nothing you can do.

Consider your options.



For those who remember my joining of the forum...I had an eerily similar breakdown on my first year btw xD (looks Absurdity's way)

total submission to the technostructure.

Yes, the way it is.

 

[Puffy]

^ Totally agree (seed-wad), hence why I would say being in a place where the research interests and module options can be integrated with your own pursuits is best. Once that's in place, if you're intellectually curious just pave your own way as much as you can. It's basically three years of 24 hour access to a library; most of the things I learned and gained were self-directed and outside curriculum.

That said, you said you study physics so maybe it's different. I was humanities, and was pretty free to take whatever approach I wanted to essays as long as I could relate it back to themes of the classes.

 

[BigApplePi]

The thought of a gap year sounds best. It will allow me to orden my thoughts and prevent another major error.

I ended up here by not giving a shit in high school. I got lower maths marks and so missed the requirements for the physics degree I was planning to take at a respected university. This university had lower requiremnets for a similar course, I got caught up in an irrational hype and need to 'escape', and took the gamble.
To sum up, I didn't think it through. At all.

Rook. You have said something specific here. Did you want to go with physics and don't have the requirements? Here you say something different:

This is the situation: This is my third day at an university I did not really want to attend. I made an impulsive move, and it was the wrong one.

I now find a much too conservative setting, with over emphasis on pride and obedience.
I have made the desicion to leave this place.

How do these two things fit together?

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Come to think of it this seems common. I had a gap year because I couldn't decide what I like.

I don't think it is any different in tech-education. If you are passionate you can find professors that want to share but have no students to listen to them when consulting etc.

As for the rest of PhD's that lecture or instruct they too are spread from feeding information and material to those allowing for your creativity or inquiry.

 

[Duxwing]

I must say, I had expected my university to be a lot more... university-like too. I've been to the WUR, Netherlands, the highest rated university of my country.

If your expectations there were unmet, then perhaps the process whereby you created them is flawed. Examining it here could provide Rook with an example of how to judge universities.

A lot of people actually became annoyed at some of the questions I asked, proclaiming that 'it isn't part of the curriculum' and even some of my better friends were surprised that I spent extra time on some subjects just because I found them interesting.

Arrrgh! I hate that, too! >_< Our classmates and teachers have a point, however much we hate it: covering the curriculum is more important than answering one student's endless mid-lecture questions. Perhaps they also underestimate our love of learning and therefore are surprised; analagously, you would be surprised at how much someone might love a car.

I guess we must accept that the golden age of universities is over and that a once noble institution has turned into a labourer factory, in total submission to the technostructure.

My conversations with my dad indicate that no golden age ever occurred: some university students are passionate, and others are bored.

-Duxwing

 

[Steven Gerrard]

^ What came to mind for me was like 18 Century London :Shrug:

What was the golden age you meant?

 

[Goku]

Suck it up
Make a few A's
Transfer

 

[Hawkeye]

I've been to three different universities. The people were all the same; however, the course quality was not.

 

[Seed-Wad]

If your expectations there were unmet, then perhaps the process whereby you created them is flawed. Examining it here could provide Rook with an example of how to judge universities.

It's just that I was instilled with high esteem for the human race when I was young, and subsequent life experience just keeps on lowering that esteem. Also the thought that people had chosen to go study something they like or think important made me expect people who were there for the material, not for the paper. Let's say I'm big sack of chemicals and miscalculations.

Arrrgh! I hate that, too! >_< Our classmates and teachers have a point, however much we hate it: covering the curriculum is more important than answering one student's endless mid-lecture questions. Perhaps they also underestimate our love of learning and therefore are surprised; analagously, you would be surprised at how much someone might love a car.

Makes me think of type 1 / type 2 managers. Type 1 expects its workers to be inherently lazy and focuses on checking upon and incentivizing the workers. Type 2 expects its workers to be inherently motivated and focuses on enabling the workers to do their work and to further motivate and encourage its workers. Whole lotta deal of self-fulfilling prophecies.

My conversations with my dad indicate that no golden age ever occurred: some university students are passionate, and others are bored.

Yes, perhaps. I don't know why I thought that it was better before. Perhaps in the times where the university wasn't necessary per se for jobs, but just a place to learn certain skills and do research, a place also for extremely rich people only, that the level was a bit higher, more pure.

Perhaps we need an über-university, where knowledge is shared and created in a noble and pure way, and discussions are held for the sake of discussion, a place separate from the need to produce qualified personnel.

-Duxwing

[1 characterz]

 

[Steven Gerrard]

What do you mean 1 characterz?

 

[TimeAsylums]

[1 characterz]

What do you mean 1 characterz?

Since he quoted his response and yours together, in order to post a reply or a post at all, at least 1 character (symbol/whatever) is necessary to post, he is just making fun of it.

try posting a blank reply

 

[The Introvert]

First, an aside:

Every time I read a post by QuickTwist, I throw up a little.

As for your problem (and I truly do feel for you):

1. Obviously, figure out if you can get your money back. Consider a transfer; I don't know how far you are into your academic career, but it may be possible for your loan to be redacted and applied somewhere else, depending on where it came from (if it was government aided, etc.).

2. If you can't get your money back (or not enough to entice you to leave it) re-evaluate your life priorities. If attending school is a must for you, then I suggest sticking the semester out and at least getting your money's worth. If the "big decision" was to go to school in the first place, perhaps the question should become whether or not you even want to go to school at all. A loan for a single semester is much easier to pay off than several semesters, especially if you don't end up utilizing the education you're receiving.

3. Your University may not be that bad. You can make the best of it, at least; you're given resources and freedom, so at the absolute worst you can make use of the library and other similar resources to educate yourself, if you find your surroundings too unbearable. Who knows, you might find your niche as an isolated genius amongst a sea of dunces

4. Don't feel too badly about it, whatever happens. Life gives us twists and turns, and it's how we handle them that builds our character and motivates us to do better next time. Take a deep breath and relax. I offer you some words of wisdom from my sister:

"At least you still have your legs!"

Take care.

 

[Base groove]

What you need, friend, is a solid contingency plan.

Let's say you're in the scenario that you have to stay or else the money is gone.

Switch to a certificate or diploma program and get over it. Your concern is the deposit or whatever, not necessarily the tuition, which can be refunded provided you meet the withdrawal deadline, right? (Or wrong?) Pressing on with an undergraduate degree you don't want on day 2 is a mistake. Taking classes to educate yourself for the sake of knowledge, is not, especially if you've already thrown your chips into play. The Introvert said it better^

 

[QuickTwist]

By all means take a year off. Your parents will forgive you eventually.

 

[Rook]

I think closure should be provided to this thread. I left the university and got most of my deposits back.

I am now attending a much more credible institution, studying towards an IT degree.
The people here are much more open-minded, and the setting is quite congenial.
It also has heavy international connotations, as I am looking to live abroad after my studies.

The assistance is appreciated.

 

[The Introvert]

Good, I'm glad for you

On another note, I really wish I took my own advice more often. Lol.

 

[Cosmicrush]

Stay in the school and just disagree with everyone as much as possible and point out the logical flaws or contradictions with everyone's behavior at the school. Try to start some kind of revolution and get your degree in whatever it was maybe. Didn't read thru this whole thing though so Im unsure if the school doesn't even teach your interests. If so, you probably should get out lol. Not good.

 

[Jennywocky]

I think closure should be provided to this thread. I left the university and got most of my deposits back.

I am now attending a much more credible institution, studying towards an IT degree.
The people here are much more open-minded, and the setting is quite congenial.
It also has heavy international connotations, as I am looking to live abroad after my studies.

The assistance is appreciated.

I missed this post when you made it, but I'm glad you were able to leave + salvage some of the money and feel more content where you are now. It''s not just this particular instance, but choosing to change something that did not work for you can be encouragement for the future and it's less likely you'll find yourself trapped in similar situations.

 

[walfin]

Good for you, glad you managed to recover most of the monies.

 

[Valentas]

The plan: don't get into debt, learn what you enjoy on at least 8/10 scale, try to learn subject that is cool(like technology) and hard(so you won't waste your time and money). Get internships starting with year 1. Tell 'fuck off' to naysayers who say you cannot get one. I did, you study IT adn if you're in US, then you are lucky because if you explore r/cscareerquestions you will see that US is good for any year student. Also, don't forget to have fun and take care of your health because as a physically inactive work, you will feel bad over the time period sitting in front of PC. I chose to climb mountains as a break. It relieves most of mental tension

* No(little) debt
* Hard and enjoyable subject
* Relax
* Get internships

And everything will be fine.

 

[EditorOne]

Can we go back to the beginning for a reassessment of what's going on?

Consider the possibility that your INTP mind is rationalizing, in the most literal sense of that word, your emotions at being thrust into a new and unfamiliar AND unexpected long-term situation. You are finding "thinking" reasons and turning whatever emotion is buried into a more acceptable emotion, annoyance with those you find yourself with, plus criticizing the facilities as inadequate, etc. You're looking at everything through an unacknowledged self-justification filter, when what's probably actually going on is just a fairly routine INTP reaction, personal discomfort, to a new situation.

If I sound like I know what I'm talking about, it's because I did the same thing at college.

I will add that it is tough maintaining an arms-length disdain for your surroundings for four years while simultaneously attending class and respecting parental investment in your future.
.

If someone had showed me what I just showed you, I'd have adjusted myself instead of all the rest. I hope, anyway, although as I recall, I was pretty bull-headed about my self-martyrdom.

What got me through was an entire counter-culture movement that could channel my discontent into a semi-organized, socially understandable general malaise directed at the war in Vietnam, young republicans, and, pretty much, Ozzie and Harriet. You may not have such a convenient convergence of personality and history.

 

[Rook]

Can we go back to the beginning for a reassessment of what's going on?

Consider the possibility that your INTP mind is rationalizing, in the most literal sense of that word, your emotions at being thrust into a new and unfamiliar AND unexpected long-term situation. You are finding "thinking" reasons and turning whatever emotion is buried into a more acceptable emotion, annoyance with those you find yourself with, plus criticizing the facilities as inadequate, etc. You're looking at everything through an unacknowledged self-justification filter, when what's probably actually going on is just a fairly routine INTP reaction, personal discomfort, to a new situation.

If I sound like I know what I'm talking about, it's because I did the same thing at college.

I will add that it is tough maintaining an arms-length disdain for your surroundings for four years while simultaneously attending class and respecting parental investment in your future.
.

If someone had showed me what I just showed you, I'd have adjusted myself instead of all the rest. I hope, anyway, although as I recall, I was pretty bull-headed about my self-martyrdom.

What got me through was an entire counter-culture movement that could channel my discontent into a semi-organized, socially understandable general malaise directed at the war in Vietnam, young republicans, and, pretty much, Ozzie and Harriet. You may not have such a convenient convergence of personality and history.

Perfect summation of the situation and sound advice.
I did leave though(as evidenced by an above post), and it was the better decision.

I now find myself at a more credible and open-minded university.
Just yesterday I had a lengthy and animated discussion on alternate universes, as well as the application and dangers of nanobots within our bodies, with one of my fellow students.
There are more people here who are rational-minded, and much more freedom.

 

[EditorOne]

I'm really glad you landed on your feet. In retrospect, I'd have made out much better at a small school like Bowdoin in Maine than at Syracuse University. Retrospect is a bittersweet concept.

 

[Architect]

The plan: don't get into debt, learn what you enjoy on at least 8/10 scale, try to learn subject that is cool(like technology) ...

Excellent advice.

 

[Grayman]

Ah, my call for help has caught your attention then.

This is the situation: This is my third day at an university I did not really want to attend. I made an impulsive move, and it was the wrong one.

I now find a much too conservative setting, with over emphasis on pride and obedience.

Granted there are qualities to such things but over emphasis on anything is a problem. I have grown around conservatives. I know how to handle them. To me they are a interesting regardless of how simple they seem. They are easy to anticipate and but hard for liberal minded individuals to understand. By understand I mean in a way that makes it easy to connect with them using reason and emotion. They are ruled by loyalty. Loyalty to the their brothers, their country, their religion, their masters, and their 'collective' ideals. Loyalty brings strength. That strength is a huge threat to an individual who stands upon their own ideas against the collective. It is intimidating. A battle using direct tactics against them is a losing battle. You must be invisible. Confuse them with logic but do not over frustrate them. They are easy to predict and therefore easy to survive.

In an odd way I like conservatives because they provide me with an opportunity to study the human psyche in comparison to the liberal mind. We need differences to compare and understand.

Choices in this are limited. They are a part of life and have been for some time. They will be here for some time also. Eventually you have to learn to handle them and how to deal with them because it is simply the most efficient option as opposed to direct opposition adn avoidance.

 

[Rook]

A battle using direct tactics against them is a losing battle. You must be invisible. Confuse them with logic but do not over frustrate them. They are easy to predict and therefore easy to survive.


Choices in this are limited. They are a part of life and have been for some time. They will be here for some time also. Eventually you have to learn to handle them and how to deal with them because it is simply the most efficient option as opposed to direct opposition adn avoidance.

Official guide to the zombie apocalypse.

Kudos.

 

[scorpiomover]

I ended up here by not giving a shit in high school. I got lower maths marks and so missed the requirements for the physics degree I was planning to take at a respected university. This university had lower requiremnets for a similar course, I got caught up in an irrational hype and need to 'escape', and took the gamble.
To sum up, I didn't think it through. At all.

I am now attending a much more credible institution, studying towards an IT degree.
The people here are much more open-minded, and the setting is quite congenial.
It also has heavy international connotations, as I am looking to live abroad after my studies.

I now find myself at a more credible and open-minded university.
Just yesterday I had a lengthy and animated discussion on alternate universes, as well as the application and dangers of nanobots within our bodies, with one of my fellow students.
There are more people here who are rational-minded, and much more freedom.

Sounds like you were in a standard Physics degree, and moved to an IT degree with lots of international connections.

I've noticed that IT people tend to be extremely open-minded. IT seems to be about "if you can think it, and it could be of benefit, let's try it."

Physics is much more convention-oriented. Everything has to be experimentally proved many times, published in an accredited scientific journal, and peer-reviewed, before it's taken that seriously.

In addition, several studies have shown that the more languages one speaks, the more open-minded and tolerant one is. The solid international connections implies the presence of many foreign students, who speak English, and their own language, while, I gather, most Americans only speak one language, and tend to be quite insular anyway.

So I think that what is most likely, is that it's due to the culture that has grown up with the subjects you chose, and the types of students you were mixing with.

I suspect you wanted to go into Physics, because on TV and in the media in general, Physicists seem to be extremely open-minded.

I think that what's happened, is that you discovered what many of us have discovered, that the stereotypes are nothing like the reality. That's the reason that the media shows programmes about subjects where they seem cool. So that people listen to the media, rather than what others have found is true about the reality by real experience.

As you continue through life, and put yourself in more situations outside of your comfort zone, you'll find more of your beliefs about others are shattered. That's what a lot of people have found.

 

[Duxwing]

I disagree, Scorpio. Recruitment videos need not lie; e.g., physics has, exactly Internet music videos and a CERN recruitment poster thereabout promised, daily astounded me and led to epistemological and metaphysical questions.

-Duxwing

 

[scorpiomover]

I disagree, Scorpio.

Duly noted.

Recruitment videos need not lie;

I don't know what recruitment videos you're talking about, especially as I never mentioned recruitment videos. TBH, I didn't even know such things existed for physics or IT. I was talking about the general media perceptions of IT and physics, which don't match the reality even a little bit.

e.g., physics has, exactly Internet music videos and a CERN recruitment poster thereabout promised, daily astounded me and led to epistemological and metaphysical questions.

And? You still haven't even mentioned the obvious ones, like that basic principles of quantum physics, which any high-school dropout has heard of, when thought about, show that determinism is either false or futile. IIRC, you've seemed to fall strongly on the side of determinism in other threads, and it seems that there are very few who like physics who aren't determinists and thus have even thought about what physics has to say on the question.

Conversely, everyone has heard and accepted the idea that we might all be part of a computer simulation, so much so, that it's a cliche, and that came directly and solely from IT.

So, when it comes to what has led to more epistemological and metaphysical questioning, I can't rule out IT any more, because of people like yourself.