Husband emails wife "no sex" spreadsheet.

[Jennywocky]

Woah, that sounds weird to me. I didn't know sex was planned with some people. I could never do that. I enjoy the spontaneity of it, having my desire provoked or provoking theirs. Otherwise it feels too much like a chore.

What are you talking about?
I didn't say anything about planning.
I just said frequency -- i.e., similar strength sex drives, so they both want sex at about the same amount.



... although now that you have broached the topic, actually, in marriage, with kids and work and everything else, you actually do need to pencil it in sometimes (if it isn't happened spontaneously enough that one or both people are unhappy). Or, rather, you leave blocks of time open so that you can have sex if you want it. Yeah, there's a glamorous fallacy that sex just happens like magic when you're together, but it's not uncommon for all those other activities that are part of daily life squeezing out the energy and time for sex.

 

[deadpixel]

I think penis size could be an issue too. Could explain a lot of the palming off.

I agree, maybe it isnt penis size but this woman doesnt know what good sex is otherwise she wouldnt be acting like this.

Woah, that sounds weird to me. I didn't know sex was planned with some people. I could never do that. I enjoy the spontaneity of it, having my desire provoked or provoking theirs. Otherwise it feels too much like a chore.

This is how my ISFJ gf was at first and if it were up to her it would be scheduled, she used to like to ask me if it was going to happen the night of and have a little discussion about it beforehand and stuff like that. I dont like that, I like it to be random and happen naturally, I dont want it to be a preconceived idea, that just makes it weird for me.

 

[Jennywocky]

I agree, maybe it isnt penis size but this woman doesnt know what good sex is otherwise she wouldnt be acting like this.

How would she be acting, in your highly esteemed and penis-attached opinion?

(Sounds like you think if she just had a good fuck in her life, she'd want to fuck all the time regardless.)

 

[deadpixel]

How would she be acting, in your highly esteemed and penis-attached opinion?

Like a woman who sees sex as a chore, and a chore isn't something that people enjoy doing.

 

[deadpixel]

Her excuses are rudimentary, its obvious lol. A woman who truly enjoy's sex with her partner isnt going to deny him bc a re-run of friends is on.

 

[Jennywocky]

Her excuses are rudimentary, its obvious lol. A woman who truly enjoy's sex with her partner isnt going to deny him bc a re-run of friends is on.

How much of the article and assorted comments in the thread did you actually read? And how long have you actually been married and have a grasp of the dynamics?

Lulls happen all the time in LTRs. Obviously they are having issues in their relationship, but it doesn't mean they never had good sex at some time, and she even says their sex life was pretty good until about 4-5 months ago.

 

[deadpixel]

How would she be acting, in your highly esteemed and penis-attached opinion?

(Sounds like you think if she just had a good fuck in her life, she'd want to fuck all the time regardless.)

You are probably right, this particular woman might just have an extremely low drive, which sucks for him if his is high. Mine used to be like that when I was a little younger, now theres other things I like to do to show that I care instead, like carefully picking out movies to watch and cooking dinner, little stuff's like that.

 

[deadpixel]

Another thing to take into consideration is that I believe most couples are probably the most intimate when they first start getting intimate, that fades over time, its just a natural process that happens with most couples. It doesn't mean that one cares any less. Maybe hes expecting it to be like the 1st year throughout the remainder of their relationship.

 

[Helvete]

I, I got taken seriously? Goddamit that always happens...

 

[deadpixel]

I, I got taken seriously? Goddamit that always happens...

It was actually a legitimate variable =x

 

[paradoxparadigm7]

Sexual desire problems or sexual disparity is very common however the underlining reasons are usually not so straight forward. We can conjecture but it's safe to say the problems lie with both.

There is always a low desire partner just as there is always a high desire partner in every relationship. Low desire and high desire are positions relative to a couple. There is a low/high desire partner on almost every issue and decision within a relationship (issues can range from having sex, moving in together, having kids, in-laws etc...) Even if you both want the same thing, one of the partners will want it more. At every point of contention, "high desire" and "low desire" are positions partners take relative to each other. Here is the indisputable rule: The partner with the least desire (in this case, sex) always controls sex whether he/she wants the control or not (unless there is rape involved). It's built into the relationship system. The higher desire partner often mistakes the control as a character trait of his/her lower desire partner and paints them as 'controlling'. "High desire" and "low desire" are not character traits but it often feels that way for the high sex desire partner. This can set up an adversarial approach between a couple.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

I think the most important issue of this whole spreadsheet business is who the hell goes to the gym without having a shower afterwards? The person goes to bed all stinky and taints the clean sheets. Come on, wtf... Wtf, indeed.

 

[xbox]

I agree, maybe it isnt penis size but this woman doesnt know what good sex is otherwise she wouldnt be acting like this.



This is how my ISFJ gf was at first and if it were up to her it would be scheduled, she used to like to ask me if it was going to happen the night of and have a little discussion about it beforehand and stuff like that. I dont like that, I like it to be random and happen naturally, I dont want it to be a preconceived idea, that just makes it weird for me.

I didnt know that some people like scheduled sex. That sounds really awkward.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Her excuses are rudimentary, its obvious lol. A woman who truly enjoy's sex with her partner isnt going to deny him bc a re-run of friends is on.

That's the reason she gave, it doesn't need to (and probably doesn't) correspond to the actual reason. The actual reason is probably a lot of reasons which have to do with a lot more than just sex. I'm willing to be they have some relationship issues which need solving.

 

[deadpixel]

That's the reason she gave, it doesn't need to (and probably doesn't) correspond to the actual reason. The actual reason is probably a lot of reasons which have to do with a lot more than just sex. I'm willing to be they have some relationship issues which need solving.

They are just excuses, she clearly just doesnt want to be intimate with him and should just be honest about it. Which are reasons like you mentioned, are deeper than just sex, but either way she shouldnt keep crawfishing backwards everytime the subject comes up and confront it and tell him, "Look, I just dont want to, and heres the REAL reason why." Instead of being afraid that shell hurt his feelings, id rather be told the truth than have to hear that my gf doesnt want to get intimate bc a friends re-run is on.

 

[Cherry Cola]

What so she should tell him "I don't want to be intimate with you"? Being that straightforward might cost her their marriage you know. But yeah, they need to deal with it. The husband should ask her how's she's feeling rather than ask her if she wants to fuck.

 

[deadpixel]

What so she should tell him "I don't want to be intimate with you"? Being that straightforward might cost her their marriage you know. But yeah, they need to deal with it. The husband should ask her how's she's feeling rather than ask her if she wants to fuck.

Sometimes people just get tired/bored of people for no real reason, it sucks when it comes to that.

 

[Reluctantly]

What are you talking about?
I didn't say anything about planning.
I just said frequency -- i.e., similar strength sex drives, so they both want sex at about the same amount.

Ohh that's what you meant. Well I guess I assumed people fluctuated a bit in their desire for sex, but maybe that's just me. It's always been more psychological for me; a bad experience can destroy my desire for long periods of time. Maybe I'm just a little bi-polar. Though honestly, I haven't had sex in years and don't want too (you know why, blah blah).

This is how my ISFJ gf was at first and if it were up to her it would be scheduled, she used to like to ask me if it was going to happen the night of and have a little discussion about it beforehand and stuff like that. I dont like that, I like it to be random and happen naturally, I dont want it to be a preconceived idea, that just makes it weird for me.

It kind of takes the fun and romance out of it.

 

[Jennywocky]

Wednesday... and I think this couple blew through their 15 Minutes of Infamy already....hahaha. Tough breaks.

 

[Minuend]

This is how my ISFJ gf was at first and if it were up to her it would be scheduled, she used to like to ask me if it was going to happen the night of and have a little discussion about it beforehand and stuff like that. I dont like that, I like it to be random and happen naturally, I dont want it to be a preconceived idea, that just makes it weird for me.

Sounds anxiety, OCD, asperger etc like. She would probably feel better with herself if she resolved some issues.

I don't think you should settle too easily on her type, your perspective is probably skewed due to her behavior stemming from a more tense/ stressed stat of mind.

 

[RaBind]

I feel a bit late to the party. She obviously has other things on her mind then sex, which she should be talking about with her s/o. There a series of things that may make you not in the mood for sex, actually talking about those reasons would probably be of huge help.

 

[Double_V]

Back to the original post (if I can even remember what it is after reading posts)...

Seems like there is some passive aggressiveness going on. Both of them.

 

[aerialview]

Men expect sex every day?? Once a year is not enough? Oh jesus. This is why I don't want to be married or in a relationship.

 

[TheManBeyond]

It definitely gets to a point where you kinda plan it and you start to wonder if you lose your passion but then you realize you are young and dumb and the true love is wisdom and you go back to handworks and stuff.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Men expect sex every day?? Once a year is not enough? Oh jesus. This is why I don't want to be married or in a relationship.

Sex drive varies from person to person. It is not exactly gender determined. Anyhow, being in a relationship it is about being with the person who is right for you.

 

[TheManBeyond]

Going from 4 times per day to 1 if lucky per 2 months or more makes you wonder. So i think the true problem comes from not really knowing what is happening and not becuz of not having sex. BTW oral sex exists and it can be used as an oasis.

 

[aerialview]

Sex drive varies from person to person. It is not exactly gender determined. Anyhow, being in a relationship it is about being with the person who is right for you.

It can vary among individuals, but I thought I remember reading that males on average have a 10x higher sex drive than females.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

It can vary among individuals, but I thought I remember reading that males on average have a 10x higher sex drive than females.

That claim seems quite outlandish. A survey conducted of my wide circle of acquaintances displayed women having the slightly higher sex drive. Here are two recent news articles referring to academic works which corroborate with the anecdotal:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...exual-desire-men-part-i-new-research-says-yes
http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/ar...y-strong-sex-drives-can-men-handle-it/276598/

To me, it is simply a myth that men have a far greater sex drive. The reason for this myth existing is to do with social norms of behaviour. It is acceptable for men to publicly signal their want for sex where as women don't feel as free to do so with out negative backlash.

 

[aerialview]

That claim seems quite outlandish. A survey conducted of my wide circle of acquaintances displayed women having the slightly higher sex drive. Here are two recent news articles referring to academic works which corroborate with the anecdotal:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...exual-desire-men-part-i-new-research-says-yes
http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/ar...y-strong-sex-drives-can-men-handle-it/276598/

To me, it is simply a myth that men have a far greater sex drive. The reason for this myth existing is to due with social norms of behaviour. It is acceptable for men to publicly signal their want for sex where as women don't feel as free to do so with out negative backlash.

Correction: It was that men have 10x more testosterone on average than women that I read. And testosterone seems to be what fuels sex drives, so this would mean men have greater sex drives by default. Reading those two articles (which I notice are written by male authors), I cannot relate to anything written in them. It's all false for me, and I am a female..so now I wonder..what's wrong with me? Or is it possible I'm a normal representation of females and these guys have it wrong?

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Correction: It was that men have 10x more testosterone on average than women that I read. And testosterone seems to be what fuels sex drives, so this would mean men have greater sex drives by default. Reading those two studies, I cannot relate to a single thing written in them. It's all false for me, and I am a female..so eh..what's wrong with me? Or is it possible I'm a normal representation of females and this study is skewed?

Perhaps you have a low sex drive. There is nothing wrong with that. If you wish to be in a relationship in the future, be with the right person for you.

 

[aerialview]

Perhaps you have a low sex drive. There is nothing wrong with that. If you wish to be in a relationship in the future, be with the right person for you.

Indeed. I now wonder how many other men and women are the same.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Indeed. I now wonder how many other men and women are the same.

I have had a low sex drive since my ptsd was triggered too many times over the last year or so. :/

 

[aerialview]

I have had a low sex drive since my ptsd was triggered too many times over the last year or so. :/

Sorry to hear that. It's probably a more complicated matter than just simple hormones as I thought.

 

[Jennywocky]

That claim seems quite outlandish. A survey conducted of my wide circle of acquaintances displayed women having the slightly higher sex drive. Here are two recent news articles referring to academic works which corroborate with the anecdotal:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...exual-desire-men-part-i-new-research-says-yes
http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/ar...y-strong-sex-drives-can-men-handle-it/276598/

To me, it is simply a myth that men have a far greater sex drive. The reason for this myth existing is to do with social norms of behaviour. It is acceptable for men to publicly signal their want for sex where as women don't feel as free to do so with out negative backlash.

I think the wording of the question matters.

I don't really look at Psychology Today as a source for a 'serious' scientific discussion, but if you skim their article, the distinction seems to be that men tend to think casual sex will be good and can get excited about the thought of casual sex, whereas the women they polled typically might have as high a drive but not necessarily one that leads them to have casual sex.

That fits the anecdotal evidence I've observed -- it seems far more common for guys to get turned on by hot-looking women through the visual sense, even if they don't know her. Women can experience that as well, depending on the woman, but it's usually a combination of qualities that turns a woman on, and women seem less inclined on the whole to sleep with guys they don't know.... or at least there are other factors involved in the decision. None of that seems really shocking, though.

Testosterone can increase sex drive, which is why it's prescribed for women with negligible amounts (to help with drive); female ranges are in the 25-40 realm, whereas men have 300-1000. Also heard anecdotal evidence for transsexual women to experience a drop in drive (and visual triggers for sex) when their testosterone is knocked down to female levels. It's basically that guy levels is like the word "SEX!!" being screamed in your ears non-stop and you have to learn to ignore the klaxon (and guys do this); meanwhile, for women, it seems like even when "SEX!" comes blaring through, it's really easy just to reach out and turn the knob to 0 so you can't hear it anymore.

*shrug*

 

[paradoxparadigm7]

Correction: It was that men have 10x more testosterone on average than women that I read. And testosterone seems to be what fuels sex drives, so this would mean men have greater sex drives by default. Reading those two articles (which I notice are written by male authors), I cannot relate to anything written in them. It's all false for me, and I am a female..so now I wonder..what's wrong with me? Or is it possible I'm a normal representation of females and these guys have it wrong?

The hormones associated with lust or desire to have sex with any semi-appropriate partner is associated with testosterone and estrogen in BOTH men and women. Romantic love involves dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. Attachment involves oxytocin and vasopressin. Because of how dopamine, norepinephrine, and testosterone mutually interact, romance can trigger lust and vice-versa. However, because of our neocortex, we can't simply attribute sexual desire to hormones. To reduce human sexual desire to that is missing a large portion of what it means to be human. With regards to HUMAN sexual desire, when, where, how and why you have sex in an ongoing relationship is determined by more than lust, romance, and attachment. Self issues shape sexual desire as much or more than testosterone, oxytocin, and vasopressin. Your hormones may be pumping and you can be horny as hell, but one sharp put-down from your partner can bring things to a screeching halt.

The reptilian brain, the mammalian brain and the neocortex compromise parts that have increasing evolutionary sophistication. This three-part structure is why intimacy and sexual desire in humans are VERY complicated. It's the difference between choosing your partner versus rutting or going into hear, creative sex versus preordained mating/breeding and loving union versus natural selection. Hormones primarily involve mammalian and reptilian parts of the brain. Neocortical desire is what makes sex PERSONAL. We want to be wanted/chosen and only a neocortex can do that. Your neocortex determines whom you have sex with (or don't), how you do it (or won't), why you're doing it (or not), and what the sex means to you.

The neocortex makes us the most adaptable, creative, self-reflective animal on the planet but it fucks us up and makes us susceptible to sexual dysfunction as well. Double-edged sword.

 

[Brontosaurie]

pretty sure one can belong without a neo cortex. look at sheep.

you end up reducing sexual desire to neocortical decisions in your ambition to counter the prevailing reduction and supply a nuanced perspective. but if one is to reduce it is preferable to address the core dynamics of a phenomenon, which in this case is indeed the semiotic interplay of fertility/compatibility indicators and hormonal drives. higher cognition of course is also involved in human sexual selection, but it is a tool, a computer, not a causa sui god. it supplements and aids our instincts (primarily by insisting on caution) rather than rules them.

 

[paradoxparadigm7]

@brontosaurie I'm not sure what you're getting at? I didn't say it's all neocortex. It's an integrated whole, including hormones. I was differentiating between human and non-human sexual desire, the former having a neocortex in play. And I wasn't addressing sexual selection but addressing sexual desire.

 

[Brontosaurie]

it's integrated, but reptilian stuff is prior and neo cortex serves it.

when you say the neo cortex determines this and that, to me it is reduction - and as far as reductions go in this context, an inappropriate one.

regarding testosterone and male sex drive isn't it a fair assumption that males have a higher sex drive due to there being no such abruptly diminishing returns in sexual activity and promiscuity as there obviously is for a pregnant woman? this doesn't mean, however, that each civilized male person consciously wants more sex than women or maximizes his sexual conquests or something like that... because as you say we have a neo cortex; we can delay gratification and realize that prioritizing an active sex life with multiple partners probably isn't conducive to long term reproductive success under these circumstances, and are subject to a lot of strange viral ideas which modulate our drives and values including sexual desire and even reproductive desire.

btw you should write the script for documentary narrators. you convey a great sense of wonder and fascination and exploration in your posts.

 

[paradoxparadigm7]

I would say the neocortex modulates the reptilian brain rather than serves it. I think of it as a control center where impulses and emotions are filtered. So I'm not placing one over the other.

Regarding female pregnancy, attachment hormones can and do inhibit sexual desire so over the typical lifetime of a women compared to men, I can accept your assumption as fair however men also secrete attachment hormones during the time surrounding the birth of their progeny so again it's not so straight forward. I'm glad you went on to say that we aren't ruled by hormones.

I'd love to be a writer for documentaries! Sounds like a dream job. My wonder is genuine too. You hiring?