Humans

[ZenRaiden]

I just thought how the human body and mind, are the most sophisticated thing mankind has ever known.

Humans rarely realize this, but if you own a body and mind, you are probably operating the most sophisticated machine in the known natural world.

You are by far the most versatile and advanced machine capable of adapting in infinite ways, and probably able to do many amazing things.

We are born into this world with instincts operating this machine with meager understanding.

For instance, you can point your finger in a wide range of spatial angles, with milliliter precision.
You can swing your arms and legs thrust them, push, pull, and use fine motor movements, juggle and swing things, throw all at whims of your thoughts.

We are able to run, walk, crawl and pretty much do anything.
OF all the creatures I Can think of only one more handy is the octopus.
But unlike the octopus we can do many amazing things through our life.

Humans are by far one of the most amazing creatures when it comes to work.
We usually, especially modern humans view themselves as weak.

But as far as apes go, we managed to build this civilization with hands alone, and in advent of steam we managed to use machines.
Either way the sheer amount of work it took for humans to build this civilized world is nothing short of amazing.
Probably if humans weren't so primitive in so many aspects we would probably get even further.
Considering wars and brutal conflicts over territory, where we have no problems of making enough food several times over for whole world, its kind of sad we humans are still struggling with ape like narrow-mined mindset.

Unfortunately this world is often times led by psychopathic apes with no heart and little soul.
Good news is we can as humans prevail.

We are astonishing creatures.

I suppose given how much we can do, what went wrong, why all the crap we do is so dumb still?

 

[Puffy]

It’s all just evolution I think, I suspect we’ll evolve past the need for wars eventually if we continue to evolve as a species.

 

[ZenRaiden]

It’s all just evolution I think, I suspect we’ll evolve past the need for wars eventually if we continue to evolve as a species.

I admit I am a pacifist in some ways, but war is not categorically stupid.
I think there are wars that might be fought for good reasons.
Question for me, the ultimate bottom line is once people kill each other, what do they have to show for it.
In case of 20th century wars that would mean nothing at all, so yeah the wars we fight are kind of dumb.
Olympians lets say at olypmics at least get gold medals or something.

 

[Black Rose]

Coordination

The process of getting things where they need to be.

The energy of an entire light bulb in what you perceive by the eyes ears nose body.

The constant motion before industrialism and farming. Hunting and socializing.

12 hours a day in nature alone or in a group.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

We are capable of suppressing urges and to plan for the future.

We are yet to recover from the consequences of that.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

We are capable of suppressing urges and to plan for the future.

 

[sushi]

It’s all just evolution I think, I suspect we’ll evolve past the need for wars eventually if we continue to evolve as a species.

war is probably a mechanism to deal with overpopulation and lack of resources.

 

[ZenRaiden]

We are capable of suppressing urges and to plan for the future.

I don't really take societal and women relational advice from youtube that much.
Granted there are women like that, but we are kind of assuming sample size one blond women on cam telling men her fantasy is not the norm.

Also what people consider fun, as far as I can tell is not where I have fun.
So either men start doing what hot blonds on instagram want, or men do their own thing.
So either be bored with a hot blond and ride a truck or whatever the fuck she considers fun, wearing hats, or just have fun doing something that is actually fun.

I think the problem here is that person one thinks x is fun, because it looks fun therefore wants other people to do x.
Then person two thinks person one thinks x is fun so they do what person one thinks is fun.
However the problem is X is not fun for either one or two person.

They just think its fun, because of the other person.

So I think as long as men are going to listen to advice from instagram women about what is fun for them, then no one will ever have fun.

From what I can tell most people who post ideas about relational stuff looks like on the internet are people who are insecure about something, so they are trying to invent some sort of bizzaro mindgames to fit into a relationship.

So I think the shortcut here is just ignoring what people say at all costs.
Because if we go by their advice by their own admission in most of this advice it just does not work.
More over even people who say it works rarely have something to show for it.
Ill take advice from some person and then end up in situations where Id be totally off target.

Preferably Ill do something that is fun for me. So even if I am alone at it, at least one person is actually having fun.


But the thing here is we think this decision process drives evolution.
Its not the thinking though that drives evolution.
Its the stuff that actually works that drives evolution.
Hence why I would think its ill advised to listen to what people think.

Bottom line is what really happens is what drives history and evolution.
The decision making process is just fluff.

 

[birdsnestfern]

It would be fun to hear about experiences people have had on dates actually.

 

[Black Rose]

We are capable of suppressing urges and to plan for the future.

Considering he thinks his IQ is 200 he is more likely to be 160 because that is what happens when we correct for errors in the score. 160 by my model can think of 19 things at the same time. By my model, I can think about 12 things at a time. 200 can think of 27 things at a time.

Impulse control is important to planning and thinking ahead. So the more impulses you can control the more intelligent you are. Impulses can be either to implement an action or to stop an action. Thinking then would be about an interrelationship between doing things and not doing things. That is, if you are doing things you need to know which ones to do first and that is called prioritization.

Prioritization in the brain works by a process of comparisons and testing. When thinking about what to do, you keep in mind what works together and what does not and the order they are in. When coming across an unknown you need to make a decision and see what happens through trial and error but overall this will tell you what part is unable to be done so you will not do the task in that way.

The brain is building a model of things, thinking builds on what you know to elaborate new things. This is where experts have had lots of time thinking and know many ways of building things mentally and physically. They can see what approach to take because they have had many perspectives on many problems.

 

[PeopleDoSuck]

We are capable of suppressing urges and to plan for the future.

I don't really take societal and women relational advice from youtube that much.
Granted there are women like that, but we are kind of assuming sample size one blond women on cam telling men her fantasy is not the norm.

Also what people consider fun, as far as I can tell is not where I have fun.
So either men start doing what hot blonds on instagram want, or men do their own thing.
So either be bored with a hot blond and ride a truck or whatever the fuck she considers fun, wearing hats, or just have fun doing something that is actually fun.

I think the problem here is that person one thinks x is fun, because it looks fun therefore wants other people to do x.
Then person two thinks person one thinks x is fun so they do what person one thinks is fun.
However the problem is X is not fun for either one or two person.

They just think its fun, because of the other person.

So I think as long as men are going to listen to advice from instagram women about what is fun for them, then no one will ever have fun.

From what I can tell most people who post ideas about relational stuff looks like on the internet are people who are insecure about something, so they are trying to invent some sort of bizzaro mindgames to fit into a relationship.

So I think the shortcut here is just ignoring what people say at all costs.
Because if we go by their advice by their own admission in most of this advice it just does not work.
More over even people who say it works rarely have something to show for it.
Ill take advice from some person and then end up in situations where Id be totally off target.

Preferably Ill do something that is fun for me. So even if I am alone at it, at least one person is actually having fun.


But the thing here is we think this decision process drives evolution.
Its not the thinking though that drives evolution.
Its the stuff that actually works that drives evolution.
Hence why I would think its ill advised to listen to what people think.

Bottom line is what really happens is what drives history and evolution.
The decision making process is just fluff.

Okay, I'm perplexed at this response. The dude is basically, from my point of view, just saying to think through your desires and decide if they are worth it for you. Everything else, including the hot silly girl, trucks being fun and whatever else is just to grab your attention and keep you watching until the end because they need to keep your attention to make money on youtube, which is more something I have a problem with because it's kind of annoying and ruining youtube in my opinion with everything becoming clickbaity and full of ten minute fluff, but back on topic. Is there really that much of a problem with his inherent message?

Actually, nevermind, fuck youtube. I'm tired of the intro music and people talking about what they are going to show you and putting more time into their camera shots than the quality of the videos and padding the video out to ten minutes for more money, the clickbaity titles and video icons. It's the same as clickbait news now. It's fucking bullshit. Youtube was better ten years ago.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Is there really that much of a problem with his inherent message?

Not at all.
Fucking a blond and riding in trucks is fun defacto, and people should have fun relationship.
So you are correct.
I think what my longwinded response was is "map is not territory".

First of all not all blonds who like trucks are carbon copies of each other.
So having a relationship with one blond might be fun and lead to happy life.
And having the same type of relationship with another blond might be unhappy.
Its not the blond, not the truck not the hat that makes the relationship.

But his reasoning makes us believe those are the true qualifiers.
Their not.
Their faulty qualifiers.
Your desires are real. But they too are incomplete.
Whatever desire you have is true in emotional realm, but those desires will be fulfilled by real world differently.
Ergo its not the superficial stuff that makes the blond happy, its not her ape genes, nor is it you being happy that you have a blond with a truck with a hat.
SO I am INTP.
The category of hat, truck and blond =/= does not equal happy.
Its the connection that is implied through meeting eachothers mutual desires.

So to put it simply, the blond will choose the guy with x factors, but its not going to be you. Its going to be someone she desires, that also happens to have a truck.

 

[Black Rose]

I do not think you watched the video.

The girl wants a guy with a truck.
The video is not about you getting with that blond girl in the video.

So if the girl wants the guy because he has a truck what does that mean?
It means she wants an irresponsible guy. (spent all his money on an expensive truck)

The point of the video is to think of the long-term outcome of desires and why he has that chart.

 

[ZenRaiden]

I do not think you watched the video.

I did and the video is still wrong.
You don't know if someone having expensive purchase is irresponsible.
How we spend money is based on financial strategies.
Spending money big time does not mean you are irresponsible.
It just means you want to enjoy the now. Not the same thing.

For instance I spent my money and as consequence I have no money.
Does not mean I am irresponsible.
It just was strategy of spending.

I would consider going into debt irresponsible , but try and find someone who is not in debt today?
So the lens of what is responsible and irresponsible is based on your goals, not other peoples perceptions.

 

[Black Rose]

I did and the video is still wrong.

How is managing your desires wrong?

That is the concept being presented.

 

[Black Rose]

So the lens of what is responsible and irresponsible is based on your goals, not other peoples perceptions.

That is true, so he should use different examples to communicate the management of desires?

His channel is based on dating though?

 

[ZenRaiden]

How is managing your desires wrong?

That is the concept being presented.

His implication is "I put my desires on hold" so "later" I will be happy.
Its a false equivalency.

 

[ZenRaiden]

That is true, so he should use different examples to communicate the management of desires?

Its just a oversimplification.
We don't choose our desires to be more precise.
We only have choice over what we do with them.

So we are often told "post pone" your desires "therefore better pay of later".
Which is true sometimes.
Financial strategies "buy a truck" may or may not be irresponsible depending on person owning the truck.
We equal spending with x, but x is dependent on many different things.
There is plenty people who have money and trucks. But does not mean their desires are fulfilled.

 

[Black Rose]

Financial strategies "buy a truck" may or may not be irresponsible depending on person owning the truck.

What if you buy the truck to get laid as a 22-year-old gen z

I think that is the target audience.

"Look at my big truck, I have big **** and women want that"

It is a signal to the opposite sex like peacock feathers.

It just seems like that is what you do to get what you want, no way thinking you can support them later or anything? (I want pussy now)

The fact is that men want women who are not over 30 years old (breeding gets unhealthy after 30) so women who can think ahead will want responsible men who don't do that sort of thing.

 

[ZenRaiden]

What if you buy the truck to get laid as a 22-year-old gen z

I think that is the target audience.

"Look at my big truck, I have big **** and women want that"

It is a signal to the opposite sex like peacock feathers.

It just seems like that is what you do to get what you want, no way thinking you can support them later or anything? (I want pussy now)

The fact is that men want women who are not over 30 years old (breeding gets unhealthy after 30) so women who can think ahead will want responsible men who don't do that sort of thing.

Again oversimplification.
People have sex, people don't always want kids, or had them and divorced.
So technically the idea here is you want family.
If your aim is family and you want to have family ASAP due to the belief early pregnancy is healthier, then waiting it out is the dumbest strategy out there.
You are literally waiting to get financially secure, which might never happen and saving money which will depreciate due to inflation, and will probably buy a home that will cost you long term life long debt.
Its the common person strategy. Waiting it out however many people wait until they realize they been waiting and nothing helped.
So nowdays there are people in 30s who never been married and have no kids.
So you are arguing that waiting is good.
But that strategy was based on the model I just described, and that model has some serious pitfalls no one will tell you about.
So all strategies are either wrong or right.
They are right if they work, but only "IF" they work. Because you are not a statistic.
So statistically being responsible and doing the right things works.
Until it does not.
The problem is no one will guarantee you it works.
So buying a truck as you call it peacocking sounds like some sort of short term strategy, but just cause you have long term strategy ain't no guarantee that works either.
The strategy you talk about was pioneered by boomers after wwII when people had nothing and had to rebuild society, and most people were kind of legit able to own things and work for pensions.

This idea no longer is financially viable form of life for many people.
Not that sheep don't fall of the cliff for other reasons.
But the only thing you think waiting is better strategy is because you were told that your whole life.

 

[Black Rose]

I do not think it is actually about waiting to have a family. Most people are not virgins so what matters is not sex itself but who you have sex with.

If I am a smart female and I want a healthy smart male who will have good kids and lots of money I will not go with a person who wastes money.

Yes, you can have kids with men who are losers and such but then you will be pregnant and have no support system except the government.

So not all women will choose to go with men who are winners but those who do will have more support. That just is how some women think.

The best man = more food = more kids survive

So what makes a man the best man? sex? no, any loser can have sex, the best man has the most food, and more women want him. So it is not about sex. It is about the best healthiest man who has the most.

Anyone can pretend to have the most money but those who have the most money do not spend it on things that are useless. Yes, those women who think big truck = lots of money will have more babies but then those babies will be abandoned and she will be on welfare checks.

I think it really is about the statistics.

Humans are biologically predisposed to get more resources.

In the wild, it was those who had more who you wanted to have sex with.

So if you can show off you get more sex.

But smart women can see past this and only have sex with men who actually have money and power. Those who don't, they are on welfare or in bad relationships, not always because the average person is still the average, but they will not be with the person who actually has the most.

The social intelligence of women was meant to get with the best dude.

Showing off is not what makes a person the best necessarily.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Actually, nevermind, fuck youtube. I'm tired of the intro music and people talking about what they are going to show you and putting more time into their camera shots than the quality of the videos and padding the video out to ten minutes for more money, the clickbaity titles and video icons. It's the same as clickbait news now. It's fucking bullshit. Youtube was better ten years ago.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

First of all not all blonds who like trucks are carbon copies of each other.

the details are interchangable

the vid has nothing to do with trucks

it's about identifying your own "short term" versus "long term" conflict

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

The point of the video is to think of the long-term outcome of desires and why he has that chart.

bingo

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

His implication is "I put my desires on hold" so "later" I will be happy.
Its a false equivalency.

not exactly

it's not like saving money now so you can throw an epic party when you retire



it's more about asking yourself, "why do i want that ?"


about 5 times

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

So you are arguing that waiting is good.

this isn't specifically about - waiting -


be here now

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

But smart women can see past this and only have sex with men who actually have money and power.

perhaps,


but those high-status men


will entertain almost any decently attractive woman


but are unlikely to commit


unless you are near the top of the pack

 

[ZenRaiden]

not exactly

it's not like saving money now so you can throw an epic party when you retire



it's more about asking yourself, "why do i want that ?"


about 5 times

Good question.

 

[Black Rose]

But smart women can see past this and only have sex with men who actually have money and power.

perhaps,


but those high-status men


will entertain almost any decently attractive woman


but are unlikely to commit


unless you are near the top of the pack

There may be more to survival than being at the top today.

But we existed in small groups, less than 50 at a time.

So the chances of being with the top guy were high.

In evolutionary terms, the weakest guys had no opportunity but not because they were excluded by wealth but by not hunting good. Top hunters became leaders. Today we have no tribes, we have cities and such. But we still try to be with the top people.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Today we have no tribes, we have cities and such. But we still try to be with the top people.

yep, we are maladapted

 

[Black Rose]

Today we have no tribes, we have cities and such. But we still try to be with the top people.

yep, we are maladapted

I look at Japan and think they know how to solve that problem

but that creates a new problem

thermodynamics in humans is how we may understand this?

 

[EndogenousRebel]

The sort of rationalization I see here reenforces the growing belief that rationalization is a substance that is poisonous in high doses.

That video is dumb. It's responding to someone who is on the internet, on a platform that incentivizes engagement for the sake of engagement for the sake of data collection and advertising dollars.

The guy appends this instance onto every situation cuz as pds says, thats YouTube right now. It's really the internet right now, and it has been for the past couple years.

Anyone trying to derive authenticity from a inherently inauthentic source is starting off on the wrong foot.

 

[Black Rose]

@EndogenousRebel

You are not saying what you are saying in a vacuum.

1. you are saying that discussion of human nature is rationalization
2. rationalization is about justifying one's beliefs regardless if they are true
3. you are saying the video has nothing to do with what you said
4. what you said is just as inauthentic as the video

If people do not have strategies for mating built into them by evolution then what causes people to decide what to do when they think long term about their future?

Simply, do people mate based on only urges, or can they think ahead and not just with their raging hormones?

 

[EndogenousRebel]

I am saying that applying rationality in that situation is stupid.

It's like asking; who would win Goku or Vegeta? in some fancition where events transpired differently from the original plot. You can do it, but from the beginning you're just imagining things and are too far from reality to really say anything that will actually cause a material change in reality. So it's just for fun, and if not for fun for what?

This lady recorded a video in her car of something that was supposed to be funny.

I looked up the difference in price between a brand new Hybrid Honda and Toyota Tacoma and the difference in payment is like $140 a month. But that's "his whole paycheck". It's supposed to be funny, she's very unserious, and the the extent that she is speaking the truth why attribute it to what the video host says it should be attirbuted to?

4. what you said is just as inauthentic as the video

Yes, but no.

I get nothing out of posting here, I'm just sharing how I see the situation. There are no likes, no stakes where I could potentially get recognition from virality unlike a place like TikTok or Instagram.

I would say I'm being more authentic than that lady. I would also say I'm being more authentic than that guy in the video because I'm not trying to use some random funny video as a platform to talk about my beliefs about mating dynamics.

There are plenty a studies that show that there is a widespread perception that people that get lavish and bold vehicles, are compensating for something (small dick). But this guy just heard something that validates his publishing strategy and ran with it.

3. you are saying the video has nothing to do with what you said

I really didn't say that at all. But yes, I don't understand why this was a reply. If the conversation wants to shift in that direction so be it, I literally just said the word impulses and plan for the future in an ironic way.

 

[Black Rose]

I just wonder what humans are trying to do with themselves that makes them how they are. A shift in direction just means in this instance we are talking about how humans can control themselves. Goku can fight but he is a humanoid meaning he can do more than sex and stuff. He can think too.

So if Goku is a humanoid not born on Earth he can also do what humans do, decide who he wants to have sex with. Maybe he wants a good fighter as a son, does that mean he will get with a woman who is against fighting?

The details don't matter. (trucks is a stupid topic)

What matters is that humanoids exist and can do things based on thought.
Thought is a way to control the body, so the more control you have the better?

Does it matter that humanoids can control themselves?

Because it makes sense that humanoids can do this if some do it better than others.

What makes those humanoids different?

 

[EndogenousRebel]

If humans are a project, the developer is natural selection and selective preassures from the environment. It's a miracle that we function this well at all.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

I am saying that applying rationality in that situation is stupid.

what is your preferred source and method ?

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

I looked up the difference in price between a brand new Hybrid Honda and Toyota Tacoma and the difference in payment is like $140 a month.

plus the huge difference in fuel cost

plus the "lift kit" which she specifically mentioned

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

The details don't matter.

bingo

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

I look at Japan and think they know how to solve that problem

 

[sushi]

human beings can remember stuff, cause and effect capture

animals dont

 

[EndogenousRebel]

I looked up the difference in price between a brand new Hybrid Honda and Toyota Tacoma and the difference in payment is like $140 a month.

plus the huge difference in fuel cost

plus the "lift kit" which she specifically mentioned

I would disregard that fuel cost because it comes with the benefit of carrying capacity. If we're talking about electric pickup trucks the prices on those are pie in the sky expensive.

There are plenty of sound reasons to get a lift kit. They also are a one time payment, that INCREASE the value of the car.

This is what I mean by you're just inherently starting off on the wrong foot by reasoning based on the reasoning of someone else.

Lady says that she is attracted to people that make poor financial decisions, noting that it's because it shows they have expendalbe income. HoeMath goes on about how it's because you like the bad boy who engages in short-term pleasure at the cost of long-term consequences.

Ideological garbage.

what is your preferred source and method ?

I don't understand the question.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

I am saying that applying rationality in that situation is stupid.

i'm guessing you prefer applying irrationality ?

 

[EndogenousRebel]

I am saying that applying rationality in that situation is stupid.

i'm guessing you prefer applying irrationality ?

You don't know what rationality means and it doesn't surprise me. Rationality isn't apriori. You apply a reason to a situation post-hoc. This is not to say that it is implicitly fallacious. That's just what it is.

 

[ZenRaiden]

My beef here is that the category of women here is fallacy of reductionist.
While we humans do think in reductionist categories, there is a reason why relationships don't actually turn out the way we think and that is the categories are simplification of reality.
Somewhat the idea of people who have longterm and short term mating strategies as well.
Or to put it even more simply they are unscientific make believe categories, that have no basis in reality.
They are purely short hand for "I believe because"..... "its reasonable for me to assume".

 

[Black Rose]

So what would delayed gratification actually be?

Is social intelligence not involved?

 

[ZenRaiden]

So what would delayed gratification actually be?

Its strategy. Every human being starts using abstract reasoning at certain age.
They can assume that waiting = better.
We all have trade off minds.
According to the new research the ability to wait for trade off was a matter of trust, not matter of some innate strategy.
So social circles where people have low trust lets say ghetto full of instability and chaos, will have people with short term strategies, and some nice white suburban place with higher income families where people can trust tomorrow people will wait for stuff.
So it comes down to security and predictability which is defined by trust.


Social intelligence is just ability to understand people more, which is experience.
Experience comes from being around people.

Whats really clear is that human emotions, intellect and interactions are kind of complex things, and when things happen in this realm its no longer simple stuff.
Usually interactions require more advanced coordination.
Hence less predictability. It also depends on trust and personalities.
But correlating trucks and blonds with personality not sure we know about those things enough.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

What's funny to me is that women (may) like impulsive and "dangerous" men for a good rationalization. These types of men are easy to control and can ward off other threats if you get on their good side. Yet it's just presented as a wholesale impulsivity thing.

Impulsivity isn't what women are attrated to. It's calculated risk. Two different things.

Women that want impulsive men probably have a disorder.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

You don't know what rationality means and it doesn't surprise me. Rationality isn't apriori. You apply a reason to a situation post-hoc. This is not to say that it is implicitly fallacious. That's just what it is.

i see

you don't believe logic can be applied to human behavior

sounds like a classic appeal to ignorance

 

[EndogenousRebel]

You don't know what rationality means and it doesn't surprise me. Rationality isn't apriori. You apply a reason to a situation post-hoc. This is not to say that it is implicitly fallacious. That's just what it is.

i see

you don't believe logic can be applied to human behavior

sounds like a classic appeal to ignorance

Math is applied psychology