How should over-population be solved?

[ashitaria]

How should over-population be solved? It is one of the most impending issues that faces the world today, and is the cause for many things such as energy shortage, famine, drought, and many other things simply because there are too many people for things to go round.

Perhaps there should be a one-child policy that stops people from making too much children so that the population will slowly dwindle into acceptable numbers. But as you all know, the only way we can enforce this is by force. Force should be the least considered option.

Also, killing old people is another measure that I wish will not happen.

So, instead of forcing it, let's attract it. Perhaps we lower taxes for people who sign a contract not to bear children. Perhaps we spread out fliers and brochures (even propaganda if necessary) to discourage over-breeding.

And we can also aid Japan's research in robotics so that they may not find the need to make children for their quickly aging population and to ease the workload that they need to support their population.

In China, whereby the land is so dense that they are resorting to nuclear power-plants to produce barely enough electricity for the people, we can move homeless Chinese people to America where they will have a chance for education, and discourage them from having babies, thus, China's population growth will not be as tremendous.

Any thoughts, criticism, ideas, or opinions? (And no, I promise not to act the way I did in the Bullying thread.)

 

[Paradroid]

Yes,the one-child policy or no-child policy encouraged by tax cuts and propaganda is a nice idea.
Also we could encourage people into turning gays and lesbians,that would be an effective way to reduce the child making opportunities that people now have.
It is my understanding that this converting is already taking place,there are those rumors about gay-molecules in coca-cola and in energy drinks(favoured by young people) and such.

Also,this was a great idea:

...we can move homeless Chinese people to America where they will have a chance for education...

Altough some Americans might disagree.

 

[Melkor]

Well, assuming Oreo's transhumanism dreams fail and come to a tumultuous and spectacular halt at the hands of a conveniently placed band of Irish rebels (they'll have nothing to do with me, honest!), then I'm afraid we'll have to settle for my highly original idea of installing a large meat grinder in the centre of the planet and playing an altered version of the lottery.

The winner gets a million yen, and the loser(s) have to jump into the meat grinder!

On a serious note, I highly suspect that this is one thing that will solve itself.

Nature has its way, as does humanity, of quite nastily solving difficult circumstance.

Either humanity will enter a depressive phase of mass war and suicide in the distant future, once land, food and providence are sparse, this will certainly tone down the population after a few years.

Or the steroids, drugs, unnatural means of transportation and recreation, artificial food, bothersome diseases, dysfunctional genes and masses of radiation we humans are toying with will render us infertile before the millennia is through.

If however, luck blesses us with it's fickle clovers, we'll have to resort to some expansive space station program and consider populating the moon, this will come in hand when the earth decides to die, or we need to start getting a bigger perspective when the suns end approaches.

 

[Anthile]

On what foundation rests your claim that overpopulation will be a problem in the future?

 

[Words]

Although some Americans might disagree.

Hmph.


----

Developed countries' problem is underpopulation. Undeveloped countries' problem is overpopulation.

An easy solution of simple exchange and migrations.

 

[Cognisant]

Well, assuming Oreo's transhumanism dreams fail and come to a tumultuous and spectacular halt at the hands of a conveniently placed band of Irish rebels (they'll have nothing to do with me, honest!), then I'm afraid we'll have to settle for my highly original idea of installing a large meat grinder in the centre of the planet and playing an altered version of the lottery.

Or my transhumanism dreams come to fruition and I undertake the highly original idea of installing a large meat grinder in the centre of the planet and throwing in any Terrans who displease me (like the Irish), then making delicious meat patties out of the resulting gore.

Overpopulation & World Hunger, two birds slain with one supersonic lead stone

 

[Anthile]

Or my transhumanism dreams come to fruition and I undertake the highly original idea of installing a large meat grinder in the centre of the planet and throwing in any Terrans who displease me (like the Irish), then making delicious meat patties out of the resulting gore.

Overpopulation & World Hunger, two birds slain with one supersonic lead stone

Jonathan Swift would be proud of you.

 

[Melkor]

Anthile sir, a medal for your bravery, a toffee for your reading, and a pitchfork for your wickedness.

Cog, dreams have a spectacular tendecy to develop to nightmares quite unexpectantly.

Do you wish to play this game alone or shall you subvert and co-operate?

(Not to be confused with transform and roll out)

 

[Cognisant]

Jonathan Swift would be proud of you.

It shames me that I can't tell if that's a insult or a compliment.

If it was a compliment, I thank you.
If it was a insult, *rolls over, exposing his belly* I yield.

It went over my head, I know next to nothing about satirical poetry.
And when dealing with someone who's potentially outwitted oneself the wisest course of action is to yield most graciously, lest the jest continue or one's rebuke serves only to cement one's idiocy.

 

[Melkor]

I've pm'ed you Oreo, I can't be too harsh out in public you know.

I must say, the new avatar is very you, very retro Cog.

It really screams "I'm a stylish and cunning Futurist with a severe lack of mercy.
I may burn your society to the ground, but I'll be so kind as to tip my hat to the after-flames."

 

[jachian]

How should over-population be solved? It is one of the most impending issues that faces the world today, and is the cause for many things such as energy shortage, famine, drought, and many other things simply because there are too many people for things to go round.

Say who?....... who defined this as the most impending issue that faces the world today?
Am not sure I agree with this.

Perhaps there should be a one-child policy that stops people from making too much children so that the population will slowly dwindle into acceptable numbers. But as you all know, the only way we can enforce this is by force. Force should be the least considered option.

What would be an acceptable level ?.............. who defines acceptable levels.

Also, killing old people is another measure that I wish will not happen.

So, instead of forcing it, let's attract it. Perhaps we lower taxes for people who sign a contract not to bear children. Perhaps we spread out fliers and brochures (even propaganda if necessary) to discourage over-breeding.

Over-breeding you say?!!.......... what is this?

And we can also aid Japan's research in robotics so that they may not find the need to make children for their quickly aging population and to ease the workload that they need to support their population.

So whats the difference between a human an a robot?!............

If you taking about consumption of resources..... lets see.......
1) they both take up space
2) the both consume energy....... So we need to fuel of some kind.
3)They will require the exploitation of natural resources to to create electronic components..... thus causing mineral wars... especially in sub-saharan africa.

In China, whereby the land is so dense that they are resorting to nuclear power-plants to produce barely enough electricity for the people, we can move homeless Chinese people to America where they will have a chance for education, and discourage them from having babies, thus, China's population growth will not be as tremendous.

This is actually a pretty good Idea...... Americans consume to much and have excess free time.


You see the problem as I see it is not over population....... the problem is one of greed and mismanagement of the earths resources.
I propose that the current rate of population growth can be sustained if we manage resources properly.

We misuse and waste too much... especially the developed world

 

[Cognisant]

I must say, the new avatar is very you, very retro Cog.

It really screams "I'm a stylish and cunning Futurist with a severe lack of mercy.
I may burn your society to the ground, but I'll be so kind as to tip my hat to the after-flames."

But of course, a gentlemen's self control elevates the impact of his actions, thus to be polite to one's vanquished foes is to effectively reinforce their defeat, it's to "tea-bag" their mind, for anyone who's familiar with the phrase.

 

[ashitaria]

Since all of you has asked me where I got this from, here.

http://www.overpopulation.org/

And note that I will only answer questions that I deem worthy of my time. No, I'm not as amused by the giant meat maker thingie.

 

[ashitaria]

Answers will be in bold.

Say who?....... who defined this as the most impending issue that faces the world today?
Am not sure I agree with this.
Pff. See above post.


What would be an acceptable level ?.............. who defines acceptable levels.
Must I really define acceptable levels? Okay, let's just say that an acceptable level would be when there is enough food production to go round.



Over-breeding you say?!!.......... what is this?

I'd like to see you give a better definition.


So whats the difference between a human an a robot?!............

If you taking about consumption of resources..... lets see.......
1) they both take up space
2) the both consume energy....... So we need to fuel of some kind.
3)They will require the exploitation of natural resources to to create electronic components..... thus causing mineral wars... especially in sub-saharan africa.

The first one, don't worry. Earth has plenty of space, especially if over-population is solved. The second one, they can be powered by solar energy, if not fuel, and still do as much work as the average human without wasting as much since they don't know the definition of slacking off. Three, ridiculous. How will robots cause mineral wars? Japan, as you know (or not, seeing your posts) is already one of the highest electronic produces. They have enough spare electronic parts already, so there won't be any stupid mineral wars.


This is actually a pretty good Idea...... Americans consume to much and have excess free time.

Why thank you.

You see the problem as I see it is not over population....... the problem is one of greed and mismanagement of the earths resources.
I propose that the current rate of population growth can be sustained if we manage resources properly.

I beg to disagree, you see. In the present, the famine and droughts can be solved with good management, but in another twenty or thirty years, it can't be solved.

We misuse and waste too much... especially the developed world

 

[s0nystyle]

Although it might be unethical to use a big-ass meat grinder to solve world hunger+ overpopulation, it is by no means a bad idea. What if we just throw everyone on death row into the meat grinder? We could market it as McDonald's mystery meat of the day or something.

I don't know why no one has tried this yet.

 

[ashitaria]

Although it might be unethical to use a big-ass meat grinder to solve world hunger+ overpopulation, it is by no means a bad idea. What if we just throw everyone on death row into the meat grinder? We could market it as McDonald's mystery meat of the day or something.

I don't know why no one has tried this yet.

Because that would be another thing under the definition of force. Would you like to be throw into a giant meat grinder? I'm pretty sure some one would have to force you to.

 

[aracaris]

"Must I really define acceptable levels? Okay, let's just say that an acceptable level would be when there is enough food production to go round."

I would add that acceptable levels would be when there's not only enough resources to go around for human beings (not just food, but also of course water, space, shelter, and so on), but also plenty to support a diverse ecosystems across the globe. The rate at which we are driving other species to extinction, and destroying various ecosystems is absurd.

Of course this is only partially a population problem, it's also a management of resources problem (though I wouldn't say the two are really separable). It could be solved potentially with a combination of cultural change, technological advances, and good old self control (which is apparently just too much to ask in many cases, going by how many unplanned pregnancies there are, butt cultural changes can help with that some). It is also a problem of population distribution, but yes on a global scale we do have too many people with too few (and poorly distributed) resources.

 

[nihilen.]

Global food crisis is near. Cannibalism will solve this problem.

 

[ashitaria]

"Must I really define acceptable levels? Okay, let's just say that an acceptable level would be when there is enough food production to go round."

I would add that acceptable levels would be when there's not only enough resources to go around for human beings (not just food, but also of course water, space, shelter, and so on), but also plenty to support a diverse ecosystems across the globe. The rate at which we are driving other species to extinction, and destroying various ecosystems is absurd.

Of course this is only partially a population problem, it's also a management of resources problem (though I wouldn't say the two are really separable). It could be solved potentially with a combination of cultural change, technological advances, and good old self control (which is apparently just too much to ask in many cases, going by how many unplanned pregnancies there are, butt cultural changes can help with that some). It is also a problem of population distribution, but yes on a global scale we do have too many people with too few (and poorly distributed) resources.

Thank you, finally a person that doesn't add on to the pile of worthless crappy criticism and adds something that helps the subject.

I thank you.

 

[Anthile]

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/we-feed-the-world/

 

[ashitaria]

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/we-feed-the-world/

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/childfree_by_choice/46451

Soon enough, there won't even be land to make that bread. Like I said, management may solve the famines and droughts now, but in a decade, over-population will just fuck it up.

 

[Anthile]

You watched a 95 minutes long movie in 10 minutes?

 

[ashitaria]

You watched a 95 minutes long movie in 10 minutes?

I see the big picture, Anthille. The big picture.

 

[onthewindowstand]

The problem isn't over-population, the problem is the extremely disproportioned distribution of the world's resources. I am a capitalist but when africa is living mostly on one dollar a day, countries are considered "developing" if the average person is making 8000 dollars. That just shows how truly unfortunate that entire continent is. The problem is a huge population spike in africa! So if we aren't going to send more resources there what we need to do is send them condoms and when food is sent there have it be the kind that makes their women less fertile. There is a special kind of corn that does just that, if we used it things wouldn't be quite as bad.

 

[Black Rose]

If your worried about overpopulation then you might find this book interesting.

Wikipedia The Singularity Is Near

2020's

Nanobots capable of entering the bloodstream to "feed" cells and extract waste will exist (though not necessarily be in wide use) by the end of this decade. They will make the normal mode of human food consumption obsolete. Thus, humans who have injected these nanobots into their bloodstream will evolve from having a normal human metabolism and become humanoid cyborgs. Eventually, according to Kurzweil, a large percentage of humans will evolve by this process into cyborgs.
By the late 2020s, nanotech-based manufacturing will be in widespread use, radically altering the economy as all sorts of products can suddenly be produced for a fraction of their traditional-manufacture costs. The true cost of any product is now the amount of time it takes to download the design schematics.

 

[Anthile]

Why is there no autoban on mentioning Kurzweil? I really should talk to Ragnar about that issue.

 

[kantor1003]

How should over-population be solved?

How about imposing death penalty to the act of bullying?

 

[ashitaria]

The problem isn't over-population, the problem is the extremely disproportioned distribution of the world's resources. I am a capitalist but when africa is living mostly on one dollar a day, countries are considered "developing" if the average person is making 8000 dollars. That just shows how truly unfortunate that entire continent is. The problem is a huge population spike in africa! So if we aren't going to send more resources there what we need to do is send them condoms and when food is sent there have it be the kind that makes their women less fertile. There is a special kind of corn that does just that, if we used it things wouldn't be quite as bad.

That's actually a good idea, but my solution to that is to just let AIDs to the job over there. Eventually, the high number of AIDs infected people in Africa will discourage having sex (and therefore babies) and kill off all the sexually active people. Of course, your idea works too.

 

[Anthile]

AIDS/HIV is not going to discourage anyone in Africa from having sex thanks to a lack of sexual education and the lack of testing procedures.
Not to mention that this kind of passive genocide is ethically extremely questionable.

 

[ashitaria]

AIDS/HIV is not going to discourage anyone in Africa from having sex thanks to a lack of sexual education and the lack of testing procedures.
Not to mention that this kind of passive genocide is ethically extremely questionable.

This is not a passive genocide mainly because no one is the cause for AIDs except the people who transfer it themselves. And there are already organizations in Africa working to discourage people from having sex, thus what I mean by, "AIDs will discourage people from having sex."

Also, education is far cheaper than genetically modified food or shipping.

 

[ashitaria]

How about imposing death penalty to the act of bullying?

How bout you deleting your crappy face and getting the heck out of here?

 

[onthewindowstand]

This is not a passive genocide mainly because no one is the cause for AIDs except the people who transfer it themselves. And there are already organizations in Africa working to discourage people from having sex, thus what I mean by, "AIDs will discourage people from having sex."

Also, education is far cheaper than genetically modified food or shipping.

No offensive but letting AIDs take it's course is a HORRIBLE idea. The reason that AIDs is often spread is because when soldiers have AIDs they are instructed to rape the populace of the town if they win to destroy their enemies. Letting AIDs run its course would be supporting genocide of entire races of people. People in africa who gets AIDs often don't even choose to have sex...

 

[ashitaria]

No offensive but letting AIDs take it's course is a HORRIBLE idea. The reason that AIDs is often spread is because when soldiers have AIDs they are instructed to rape the populace of the town if they win to destroy their enemies. Letting AIDs run its course would be supporting genocide of entire races of people. People in africa who gets AIDs often don't even choose to have sex...

Is that so? I never knew Africa was being invaded by external forces, and if this is the case, this is no longer the matter of letting AIDs take it's course, this is the matter of letting invasion and wars take it's course.

But if there are no soldiers included though, I don't see how letting AIDs run it's course be a bad idea. If we educate the people rightly, AIDs will help discourage breeding and won't kill anybody.

 

[onthewindowstand]

Is that so? I never knew Africa was being invaded by external forces, and if this is the case, this is no longer the matter of letting AIDs take it's course, this is the matter of letting invasion and wars take it's course.

But if there are no soldiers included though, I don't see how letting AIDs run it's course be a bad idea. If we educate the people rightly, AIDs will help discourage breeding and won't kill anybody.

Africa is at constant with war with itself... im surprised you don't know that. and the deal with aids... we have education here and yet aids still spreads. The best way to help africa would be a unification of several of the government there while endorsing condom use while giving them out.

 

[BigApplePi]

Introduce an additive to the water supply that reduces fertility or sperm count. The wealthy can drink Avion water but they don't have babies anyway.

 

[ashitaria]

Africa is at constant with war with itself... im surprised you don't know that. and the deal with aids... we have education here and yet aids still spreads. The best way to help africa would be a unification of several of the government there while endorsing condom use while giving them out.

Despite education, AIDs will still spread because there will always be sexually active people (although they will get killed off by AIDs).

As with Africa's civil war, condoms won't help unless the war is stopped, and the only way to do that is to unite the governments like you said, or to simply send troops there and stop the war efforts with the use of blockade.

@Apple Pie, that idea has already been mentioned, but it's a good idea. Nice to see members posting again.

 

[onthewindowstand]

We could never send troops there. There are about 1 biilion people in Africa and in the darfur the region is so violent that about 500,000 people have died and 100,000 of that was from disease. That was just in two years. We don't have the resources to deal with that, and that is just one part of africa.

 

[ashitaria]

We could never send troops there. There are about 1 biilion people in Africa and in the darfur the region is so violent that about 500,000 people have died and 100,000 of that was from disease. That was just in two years. We don't have the resources to deal with that, and that is just one part of africa.

I guess that means we don't have to worry about overpopulation in Africa.

 

[onthewindowstand]

Yet their poopulation is still growing... africans like sex?

 

[ashitaria]

Well on the bright side, at least the African population growth isn't that high, can't be high if there's AIDs, civil wars and famine to boot.

 

[onthewindowstand]

African population is growing so fast that it is estimated to reach 2 billion in 2050

 

[ashitaria]

African population is growing so fast that it is estimated to reach 2 billion in 2050

OMFG.

Those African people really do go crazy. Maybe a nuclear bomb will surface?

 

[Architectonic]

Ashitaria's "overpopulation" is ill-defined. He seems to think that overpopulation is a state where not everyone can live a materialistic western lifestyle. In that sense we do have overpopulation.

The fact is that population is self regulating. If people don't have the essentials for life, they die.

But you say they will take resources from the rest of us? That is a little selfish yes, but more to the point it is not entirely correct.

Economies are not zero sum. It is possible to solve overpopulation without reducing the population at all.

Introduce an additive to the water supply that reduces fertility or sperm count. The wealthy can drink Avion water but they don't have babies anyway.

The problem is that it is impossible to do this without harming health in other ways.

 

[JUN]

Yet their poopulation is still growing... africans like sex?

OMFG.

Those African people really do go crazy. Maybe a nuclear bomb will surface?

Beautiful.

 

[logicsniper]

Although it might be unethical to use a big-ass meat grinder to solve world hunger+ overpopulation, it is by no means a bad idea. What if we just throw everyone on death row into the meat grinder? We could market it as McDonald's mystery meat of the day or something.

I don't know why no one has tried this yet.

Well because it isn't healthy to eat that which eats meat. There is a reason why we only eat vegetarian animals. For example BSE ['mad cow disease'] was caused because a vegetarian animal was fed the ground up offal remains of its own species.

The only way cannibalism could realistically be used to solve the problems being discussed here is if we only ate the vegetarian humans, but then how many people would still be vegetarian if it might they would be eaten?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

condoms won't help unless the war is stopped,

Er, What?!

 

[BigApplePi]

I'm beginning to start to commence worrying. Come on now. There is an overpopulation on this Earth. What can be done about it that is safe, agreeable and effective?. We've got INTPs here. The most brilliant minds on the planet who can afford to put their whole minds on this problem whether or not it is implemented. No rush as we're in the middle on an ongoing explosion. I would like a proposal for a solution by Monday.

 

[Me So Charlie]

Also we could encourage people into turning gays and lesbians,that would be an effective way to reduce the child making opportunities that people now have.

So homosexuals don't have children? WTF? The desire to procreate is not limited to heterosexual couples.


Not a big fan of sterilizing people (drugged water) unless they do so willingly. Care would need to be taken regarding the motivation. I think they (not sure who "they" are) used to offer $200 to female welfare drug addicts to get their tubes tied because of the correlation to unwanted pregnancies in that demographic. Seems like a win-win situation. Crack whore gets her fix (pun intended) and the world is spared of her uterine concoctions.

Back to the resources.
Kill off the people who already have a death sentence. The meat grinder for Death Row inmates is redundant but a good idea. These folks are already going to die. However, have the punishment dealt swiftly once the sentence is given. Why have bad guys sitting on Death Row for years on end using up resources. Along the same lines, throw terminally ill people in the meat grinder too.
Yes, I know that we are all going to die eventually, but these are people who almost literally have an expiration date stamped on their asses.

Ultimately, I believe in the ingeniousness of mankind and the unpredictability of nature. Our world population increases but periodically there is a bubonic plague, small pox, tsunami, or earthquake that decimates pockets of mankind. What do we do? We find cures, we provide aid, we rebuild.

BTW- I'm opening up a Kool Aid stand in Jonestown. Any one want a drink?

 

[Words]

We've got INTPs here. The most brilliant minds on the planet who can afford to put their whole minds on this problem whether or not it is implemented.

"To belong in an 'elite' class means to have great ability". Why....?.... Pride?

 

[Cognisant]

Well because it isn't healthy to eat that which eats meat. There is a reason why we only eat vegetarian animals. For example BSE ['mad cow disease'] was caused because a vegetarian animal was fed the ground up offal remains of its own species.

Really?
Now this is a really sick, twisted thought, but I can't help wondering... did the cow realise it? Because to an avid meat eater such as myself the mental image of meat eating meat is incredibly wrong in such a right way, it's like how butchers can do all sorts of things to prepare meat, desecrating the animal's corpse with knives, saws, and grinders until what's left doesn’t resemble the animal anymore, a mockery of it's once biomechanical beauty, something subjected by human will to such an extent that there's nothing left for it to give. So when one cow eats the remains of another there's an undertone of it somehow conveying "I am not a cow" in how unnatural the behaviour is, how artificial, almost as though the cow understands and accepts its role in the modern world, to be food for humans.

A monstrous desecration of life's sanctity, but the thought doesn’t really bother me, after all I would only be a hypocrite for disrespecting the sanctity of a cow's life if I respected the sanctity of my own, instead via the pursuits of Transhumanism and personal AI research I seek nothing less than to de-sanctify my own mind & body.
(note: disrespecting sanctity is one thing, and cruelty is another issue altogether)

The only way cannibalism could realistically be used to solve the problems being discussed here is if we only ate the vegetarian humans, but then how many people would still be vegetarian if it might they would be eaten?

If I'm dead I'll have no qualms with my remains being eaten, although I'm not a vegetarian so I would recommend you thoroughly cook me first.

 

[RandeKnight]

I'd like 1 child per parent (so 2 per couple), so I'm wouldn't deny anyone a replacement.
And the level to which we need to reduce the population? To the point where everyone can live on renewable or effectively unlimited resources*.
How to achieve this? I'm not seeing anything feasible with the currently political system. I suspect apocalyptic wars and/or weather conditions will have to do the job.
Between then and now, I have no objection to eating Soylent Green - it's not People, in the same way as we aren't eating dinosaurs though it contain the same atoms.

*effectively unlimited for example being mining the atmosphere of Jupiter or the asteroid belt.