Honor

[ProxyAmenRa]

A trend has emerged. People are trying to set me up with their friends. Their friends that I dont find attractive in any form or manner. People operate by assigning value. They group like values together. By inference these people are valuing me as equivalent to these people outlined. Thus I know the subjective value that they assign to me. This subjective value is less than the value I assign myself. This leads to the supposition that people don't value me to a level at which I would like. I am dishonored.

In such situations of dishonor one must find a mechanism of remedy.

In honor societies remedy is made in the form of blood.

There are 3 options.
1) Remain in dishonor.
2) Regain honor by a remediation process.
3) Suicide by ceremonial dagger.

I am the epitome of anger.

 

[Words]

...Wut?

Honor is an illusion but I guess emotions should be dealt with in a special manner. I find expression[and the continuous amounts of it] to be the better remedy.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Honor is not an illusion. Everyone has a code of conduct they endeavor to adhere. If your personal values are offended by people's ignorance, you must be provided with remedy in one form or another.

--- edit ---

In reality they are assigning a value to me by which the very process of them signifying the value they have assigned to me is what I do not like. Knowing their subjective value of me is similar to classical economics; knowing the value alters behavior. Thus my behavior has been altered.

 

[Words]

Honor is not an illusion. Everyone has a code of conduct they endeavor to adhere. If your personal values are offended by people's ignorance, you must be provided with remedy in one form or another.

Pardon me, I am not very skilled in the subjective arts. But as an addition to the idea, would you consider expression [on what you perceive as an offense] for the enlightenment of the ignorants, an honorable choice of action? Provide them so they can provide you. I really doubt there's any axioms here. Understanding is an achievement of hardwork and is not a universal standard.

In reality they are assigning a value to me by which the very process of them signifying the value they have assigned to me is what I do not like. Knowing their subjective value of me is similar to classical economics; knowing the value alters behavior. Thus my behavior has been altered.

Are they aware of their faults? And is their lack of awareness also something you don't like?

 

[Jill BioSkop]

Tell them your price. Tactfully.

It could also be that your view of these people you are being set up with is inaccurate, or that your friends value them more than you do, hence raising their subjective value of you, but not your subjective value of their value of you.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Pardon me, I am not very skilled in the subjective arts. But as an addition to the idea, would you consider expression [on what you perceive as an offense] for the enlightenment of the ignorants, an honorable choice of action? Provide them so they can provide you. I really doubt there's any axioms here. Understanding is an achievement of hardwork and is not a universal standard.

Are they aware of their faults? And is their lack of awareness also something you don't like?

Their faults do not stem from a lack awareness of the process of signifying their subject value but the lack of awareness or apathy of one's ability to recognise this.

Tell them your price. Tactfully.

It could also be that your view of these people you are being set up with is inaccurate, or that your friends value them more than you do, hence raising their subjective value of you, but not your subjective value of their value of you.

What you have outlined is the question that one must ask one's self. In order to deduce their valuation you carefully analyse the language of their descriptions of the person they have outlined. If they use words like beautiful or gorgeous as they have done in this latest scenario it represents that they don't find the person of relatively high value.

As an example I over heard a girl in my degree always talk about an friend of her's never getting a boy friend because she is ugly and has shit personality. For amusement sakes I asked after hearing the above description of ugly whether or not she was ugly. The girl in my degree replied she is gorgeous.

Another example was this extremely ugly guy asking people to describe how hot he was (for humor) and a girl he asked said he was beautiful.

Hence, in my scenario since these descriptive words were used my friend did not value these people highly.

It is important to draw a new paradigm. The friends whom have recommended these girls are female. Hence, I am in their friend zone and by nature they should not find me attractive even though a few friends in particular were once girlfriends or casual sex partners.

Male friend do not provide suggestions unless the person would be found attractive or the suggestion is aimed to be an insult and this insult is not founded on ignorance.

This whole scenario is due to being introverted. They feel a necessity to remedy introversion by offering unattractive females.

 

[Jill BioSkop]

Their faults do not stem from a lack awareness of the process of signifying their subject value but the lack of awareness or apathy of one's ability to recognise this.



What you have outlined is the question that one must ask one's self. In order to deduce their valuation you carefully analyse the language of their descriptions of the person they have outlined. If they use words like beautiful or gorgeous as they have done in this latest scenario it represents that they don't find the person of relatively high value.

As an example I over heard a girl in my degree always talk about an friend of her's never getting a boy friend because she is ugly and has shit personality. For amusement sakes I asked after hearing the above description of ugly whether or not she was ugly. The girl in my degree replied she is gorgeous.

Another example was this extremely ugly guy asking people to describe how hot he was (for humor) and a girl he asked said he was beautiful.

Hence, in my scenario since these descriptive words were used my friend did not value these people highly.

It is important to draw a new paradigm. The friends whom have recommended these girls are female. Hence, I am in their friend zone and by nature they should not find me attractive even though a few friends in particular were once girlfriends or casual sex partners.

Male friend do not provide suggestions unless the person would be found attractive or the suggestion is aimed to be an insult and this insult is not founded on ignorance.

This whole scenario is due to being introverted. They feel a necessity to remedy introversion by offering unattractive females.

Theirs is a strange way of describing things. I rarely qualify *anything* as 'gorgeous' so if people do I am inclined to believe them, thinking their criteria for usage similar.

In the examples you give the people asked were obviously on parade to the public and felt that their Political Correctness Index was on trial. They felt they had no choice than to answer something superlatively positive or else all the people around them (who were probably thinking the same thing anyway) would figuratively crucify them for not being nice (and maybe for hurting the asker's feelings, but if they truly are ugly by most standards then they should consider theirs a risky question to ask.) I think that their valuing of the people they were asked about wasn't the point in those cases, their social image was.

Depending on how those girls regard you maybe they just felt like being honest.

Assuming Australia is similar to the stereotypical US focus on extroversion, if they just want to remedy introversion why not simply tell them off for it and let the matter rest? Then maybe they'll only suggest girlfriends out of true hopes of compatibilities and not for lightening their own guilt that you are hanging around so girlfriend-less (because if they're your exes AND still hang around with you then they can't completely dislike you... or am I just being naive? )

Is there any way to ask male friends to see if stories corroborate?

But basically you're offended they haven't recognised the implications of their acts? Now I understand what you meant by honour.

 

[LabyrinthMind]

A trend has emerged. People are trying to set me up with their friends. Their friends that I dont find attractive in any form or manner. People operate by assigning value. They group like values together. By inference these people are valuing me as equivalent to these people outlined. Thus I know the subjective value that they assign to me. This subjective value is less than the value I assign myself. This leads to the supposition that people don't value me to a level at which I would like. I am dishonored.

In such situations of dishonor one must find a mechanism of remedy.

In honor societies remedy is made in the form of blood.

There are 3 options.
1) Remain in dishonor.
2) Regain honor by a remediation process.
3) Suicide by ceremonial dagger.

I am the epitome of anger.

You poor thing

Sorry, I couldn't help giggling while reading this arrogant, shallow post. You think you're entitled to something/someone (at least) as valuable as your precious self? Why not seek it yourself instead of being pissed at your ignorant friends so unaware of your Value? Thank them for the effort and ask not to dishonor you anymore.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Theirs is a strange way of describing things. I rarely qualify *anything* as 'gorgeous' so if people do I am inclined to believe them, thinking their criteria for usage similar.

In the examples you give the people asked were obviously on parade to the public and felt that their Political Correctness Index was on trial. They felt they had no choice than to answer something superlatively positive or else all the people around them (who were probably thinking the same thing anyway) would figuratively crucify them for not being nice (and maybe for hurting the asker's feelings, but if they truly are ugly by most standards then they should consider theirs a risky question to ask.) I think that their valuing of the people they were asked about wasn't the point in those cases, their social image was.

I think your analysis is somewhat but it still results in the same.

Depending on how those girls regard you maybe they just felt like being honest.

Of course, if they are not attracted to you, they are not attracted to you. However, I have numerous friends that I am not attracted but I don't implicitly or explicitly state state that fact even to the ones that are interested in me.

Assuming Australia is similar to the stereotypical US focus on extroversion, if they just want to remedy introversion why not simply tell them off for it and let the matter rest? Then maybe they'll only suggest girlfriends out of true hopes of compatibilities and not for lightening their own guilt that you are hanging around so girlfriend-less (because if they're your exes AND still hang around with you then they can't completely dislike you... or am I just being naive? )

Ehh, they are the ones that invite me out so its not a problem.

Is there any way to ask male friends to see if stories corroborate?

Hang out with a bunch of guys for a while it will become apparent.

But basically you're offended they haven't recognised the implications of their acts? Now I understand what you meant by honour.

Correct!

You poor thing

Sorry, I couldn't help giggling while reading this arrogant, shallow post.

Please extrapolate on your reasonings. Perhaps, it was my choice of language. Here is a second attempt: "Don't you hate when people are always trying to set you up with other people?"

You think you're entitled to something/someone (at least) as valuable as your precious self?

Am I entitled to anything? No, not for free anyway.

Why not seek it yourself instead of being pissed at your ignorant friends so unaware of your Value?

Indeed I do. However, my pursuits are not related in this scenario.

They fail to grasp the fundamental tenets of the implicit social contract of respect reciprocity.

Thank them for the effort and ask not to dishonor you anymore.

Have done.

 

[warryer]

More often than not I find that people aren't aware of these social nuances. I don't think this is such a bad thing though. Your friends appear to not be aware that they are revealing the value that they assign to you. So they are going to let their TRUE feeling/thoughts about you come out.

You do have some control over this but really its a conflict between your value system and theirs. Or maybe you have dishonored your friends in some way so you have fallen down the totem?

 

[AlisaD]

If you care about how much they value you, you might try want to try working on getting them to value you more.

If you don't care, why rant?

 

[EyeSeeCold]

A trend has emerged. People are trying to set me up with their friends. Their friends that I dont find attractive in any form or manner. People operate by assigning value. They group like values together. By inference these people are valuing me as equivalent to these people outlined. Thus I know the subjective value that they assign to me. This subjective value is less than the value I assign myself. This leads to the supposition that people don't value me to a level at which I would like. I am dishonored.

More often than not I find that people aren't aware of these social nuances. I don't think this is such a bad thing though. Your friends appear to not be aware that they are revealing the value that they assign to you. So they are going to let their TRUE feeling/thoughts about you come out.

You do have some control over this but really its a conflict between your value system and theirs. Or maybe you have dishonored your friends in some way so you have fallen down the totem?

<--had an epiphany

I thought of this, but never fully realized it. One of my cousins is always showing off females to me that he thinks I should pursue. Now, I know nothing of his personal tastes, but more than half of these women conflict with even my vast appreciation of appearance. A most reasonable explanation would be that he is taking the value of a less-desired woman to equate with his idea of my overall value (appearance is a big factor, but to E types, sociability is also valued highly). Therefore, I will use this information to pay more attention to what he considers me entitled to. Instead of fostering hate, I will gather information to project back at him in an attempt to bring his intentions out in the open and discover how much I am truly valued for both of our sakes.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

If you care about how much they value you, you might try want to try working on getting them to value you more.

If you don't care, why rant?

Jill BioSkop got it right.

But basically you're offended they haven't recognised the implications of their acts? Now I understand what you meant by honour.

 

[Cavallier]

Games. Games. Games. It's all just mind games on your friend's part if I understand what you have described correctly. If I were in your shoes I'd get different "friends". What I consider honorable in my friends is that they keep out of my personal life unless I ask them to join it.

But what do I consider to be my own personal code of honor? Hmmm...this will take some consideration.

 

[snafupants]

Honor, are you in a gang or a resident of Japan? Since when is honor important?

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Honor, are you in a gang or a resident of Japan? Since when is honor important?

The place where I grew up had it ingrained in the culture. Though, regardless of where you are from the implicit social contract is apparent. I call it honor. You may call it something else.

 

[Trebuchet]

Honor, are you in a gang or a resident of Japan? Since when is honor important?

Honor is totally important, though I have no problem using "integrity" as a synonym. My college's honor code was one of the things that I valued about it. My own honor is part of my personal values. I always find it weird that other people don't care about their own honor.

However, the OP was not describing anything I would call honor. Only you can dishonor yourself. To me, honor is an internal phenomenon. Being set up for a date with someone you don't like, on the other hand, is a normal part of the process of dating.

Taking offense at the matches made by your friends is unreasonable, unless you think your "friends" are trying to hurt your feelings or make you have a rotten night. Assuming they really hoped you would hit it off, though, the only dishonor I see is reacting to an attempt at kindness with hostility and resentment.

 

[snafupants]

Absolutely, an internal moral compass is what should be upheld. The two examples that were flippantly given - a gang code and jingoism - are objectionable because both forget about the individual in lieu of, say, expanding gang territory, avenging a murder, etc. and attempting to be an international player, respectively. The example in the OP seemed somehow less than life or death, which partly explains the flippancy.

 

[Polaris]

There are 3 options.
1) Remain in dishonor.

Not a disastrous option. Probably the most irritating for your ego. However, if someone were seriously messing with your reputation, it would perhaps be worth getting the pistols out.

2) Regain honor by a remediation process.

The pistols thing. Hm. Perhaps you need to move to a different century. Or you could try it as a social experiment. Might make some headlines.

3) Suicide by ceremonial dagger.

Because they got the wrong impression? Only you know who you really are. People will always misunderstand you. Until you find The One who does not. And that is immensely tricky, I know how you feel. It is easy to be blinded by first impressions, though.

On a small side note: attraction works for me this way:

The Western-obsession-with-looks-way:

1) Wow. *stupidity enters the room*
2) Get to know the person better. Yikes.
3) Exit quick smart

Or The Other way (rarely happens):

1) Get to know the person
2) Not attracted physically, but Boy, does said person have an intriguing personality and admirable intellect
3) Continue to be mentally attracted to said person
4) Person pops up in head all the time
5) Realise I'm done for
6) Find person irresistibly attractive for the next 5 years, and nothing ever comes of it. Nusuth.

I am the epitome of anger.

 

[EditorOne]

Wait, let me see if I get this: Someone is fixing you up with a date and you're ready to fight a duel because the choice you let them make for you doesn't meet your standards?

Jeez, just go upstream. If you don't want people taking pity on your sorry lonely incomprehensible ass, go find your own dates and let everyone know what kind of person you think is appropriate for your social life.

Personally I'm pretty sure you could, with very little effort, come up with something else to think about, but what the heck dude: You're an introverted thinker who never lets anyone see the real you and you have a problem with people guessing wrong about who you are and what you value. Does the intuitive part of you sense a certain incongruity in your analysis and a certain irony in your decision to take offense at a situation caused by your very personality? People "getting it wrong" when the topic is you is part of the INTP existence.

I'm exhausted at figuring that out, so good night and good luck.

PS We're all INTPs and have no idea what your idea of a good date might be. Just for fun (we are allowed to have fun even when we are feeling dishonored for reasons 98 percent of the people on the planet wouldn't understand), why don't you pick a famous name you'd find appropriate for a date. Even if it's a fictional character. I'd be happy with Lauren Bacall. I'd also have been happy, as a young man, with the character of Mattie Ross in the movie "True Grit." (1969, before many in here were born, but the current crop of movie stars and pop culture figures doesn't resonate with me, sorry.) And the author Sharyn McCrumb: I can guarantee a socially redeeming date with her and all I've ever done is read her books.

Give it a shot, it's better than sitting around pissed off. I try that for a few years at a time every once in awhile, and can't see where I'm any the better for carrying a chip around on my shoulder nobody can see.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Wait, let me see if I get this: Someone is fixing you up with a date and you're ready to fight a duel because the choice you let them make for you doesn't meet your standards?

'

I don't let people make choices for me.

Jeez, just go upstream. If you don't want people taking pity on your sorry lonely incomprehensible ass, go find your own dates and let everyone know what kind of person you think is appropriate for your social life.

I have an adequate social life that fulfills my needs and wants including the ability to find my own dates. I just don't advertise every facet of my ongoings to everyone all the time.

Personally I'm pretty sure you could, with very little effort, come up with something else to think about, but what the heck dude: You're an introverted thinker who never lets anyone see the real you and you have a problem with people guessing wrong about who you are and what you value. Does the intuitive part of you sense a certain incongruity in your analysis and a certain irony in your decision to take offense at a situation caused by your very personality? People "getting it wrong" when the topic is you is part of the INTP existence.

I'm exhausted at figuring that out, so good night and good luck.

Yes.

PS We're all INTPs and have no idea what your idea of a good date might be. Just for fun (we are allowed to have fun even when we are feeling dishonored for reasons 98 percent of the people on the planet wouldn't understand), why don't you pick a famous name you'd find appropriate for a date. Even if it's a fictional character. I'd be happy with Lauren Bacall. I'd also have been happy, as a young man, with the character of Mattie Ross in the movie "True Grit." (1969, before many in here were born, but the current crop of movie stars and pop culture figures doesn't resonate with me, sorry.) And the author Sharyn McCrumb: I can guarantee a socially redeeming date with her and all I've ever done is read her books.

Give it a shot, it's better than sitting around pissed off. I try that for a few years at a time every once in awhile, and can't see where I'm any the better for carrying a chip around on my shoulder nobody can see.

I'm confused by this paragraph.

 

[echoplex]

I think I can empathize. It's even worse when it's your family members trying to fix you up. There may be nothing more annoying in the world than a parent trying to get you laid.

However, I think you're making a leap to assume they are assessing your value in their choice, though undoubtedly this happens in such situations. It's probably more likely they are just targeting introverts to couple and the 'good ones' are already taken.

 

[Jill BioSkop]

There may be nothing more annoying in the world than a parent trying to get you laid.

 

[DesertSmeagle]

This is why I dont have any friends..im scared they will make me do stupid things with them.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

I think I can empathize. It's even worse when it's your family members trying to fix you up. There may be nothing more annoying in the world than a parent trying to get you laid..

This sounds utterly terrible. If you were here I would consider patting you on the back and saying 'there, there'.

 

[Beat Mango]

So succinctly put, Proxy. The facts are different, but I can relate.

 

[pjoa09]

maybe they are subjectively saying, ' get fucking ', because they all are.

you could be having a long dry spell or even haven't been in a relationship yet( i am talking about myself here).

Other than that, if you are checking out some girl and they know about it and they know you have a shot then they are evaluating you lower than you evaluate yourself.

All my friends are in a relationship currently and they do indeed try to 'hook me up' with someone they know.

Certainly, you wouldn't want to be a in relationship for various reasons. (i.e TIME!)

But, yeah its a strange logic.

I get ass, my friend has ass, why don't you get some ass? ok i will get some ass for you.

And you are like wtf.

 

[Chimera]

And you are like wtf.

Couldn't have put that better myself.


Also, Editor's post +1.
​

 

[Firehazard159]

The place where I grew up had it ingrained in the culture. Though, regardless of where you are from the implicit social contract is apparent. I call it honor. You may call it something else.

Like he/she said, it can be called many things - to me it sounds like a respect/disrespect issue.

 

[Lobstrich]

A trend has emerged. People are trying to set me up with their friends. Their friends that I dont find attractive in any form or manner. People operate by assigning value. They group like values together. By inference these people are valuing me as equivalent to these people outlined. Thus I know the subjective value that they assign to me. This subjective value is less than the value I assign myself. This leads to the supposition that people don't value me to a level at which I would like. I am dishonored.

In such situations of dishonor one must find a mechanism of remedy.

In honor societies remedy is made in the form of blood.

There are 3 options.
1) Remain in dishonor.
2) Regain honor by a remediation process.
3) Suicide by ceremonial dagger.

I am the epitome of anger.

You're post has alot of useless words. Why not just ask "People are trying to match me up. Why?" (Because you MUST sound smart by making a complicated OP?)

Anyway.. Say No? Simple.

 

[nexion]

Kill them. Restore honor. Ability to force their own subjective opinions and preferences on you: neutralized.

 

[jaxin]

You poor thing

Sorry, I couldn't help giggling while reading this arrogant, shallow post. You think you're entitled to something/someone (at least) as valuable as your precious self? Why not seek it yourself instead of being pissed at your ignorant friends so unaware of your Value? Thank them for the effort and ask not to dishonor you anymore.

I agree. Put the onus on yourself. Out of almost 7 billion people, you have time in your life for few friends and fewer lovers. It's up to you to deserve the people you hope will be happy to meet you. (Wow, there's an awkward sentence...)

I have had similar experiences though. Way, way back in high school, my older sister would occasionally mention some girl with a "wonderful personality". Implying that she was trying to hook up two dateless losers, me being the other.