Help! (INFP...) (Fallen hard...)

[snowyashes]

EDIT: (Sorry, this post is kind of long... I just kept typing and typing!)

Hi. My "name" is snowyashes, and I am a female INFP (albeit with strong Ti preferences...), and I am here because I need your help.

I have not joined any INFP forums. I have not joined any all-type forums. I came here, to the INTP forums, because I knew that in order to figure out my problem, I had to come straight to the source.

Wow. I'm not even sure where to begin... Okay. At the beginning, of course!

Alright. So there's this boy, right? I met him in my science class... he knew my other friend in that class (who I think is my only "T" friend-- I'm pretty sure she's an INTJ... but of course she's also my only friend who didn't think it was worth the time to take the test ) from their Engineering/Drafting class. Typical. I'm in choir.

He seemed really interesting, and nice, so I started talking to him. That day at lunch he started talking to me (it took him like three tries to get my attention-- I didn't think he was talking to me-- which probably made him feel really stupid and awkward), and we had an extremely interesting conversation, and within five minutes we were both listening to his iPod. (He's really into music, which is great for me. ) Since then we've slowly but steadily become friends (which much underhanded help from me). This began around mid-September.

I've recently (finally!) worked up the courage to ask for his email address (pathetic, I know), and I did it in a manner that didn't suggest that I liked him... at least not in a creepy way (I'm always worried about scaring people off with my intensity, so I'm really careful about how I bring things up and word things and gather information about people)... and he gave it readily. Over winter break, I sent out an email to all my friends asking them to take the MBTI test. My friends are: 1 ENFJ, 1 ISFP, 2 ESFJs, 1 (possible) INTJ, and him, now included in my close circle of friends, an INTP.

Since we became friends, he walks with me to the end of the hall (where we go different directions) after science class-- we always wait for each other-- where he hugs me goodbye. Then we sometimes talk at lunch, and then at the end of the day I wait by his locker and then we walk downstairs and outside to the buses together, where he hugs me goodbye before he walks home. When my bus passes him, we wave to each other.

Oh, yeah, one other thing... Do you guys think this sounds likely? The other day, he suddenly realized (out loud) that his turning right when he left science meant he had to walk all the way back around the building to go to his next class after we went different ways, as opposed to turning left and just going right around the corner. He said something along the lines of (in a joking voice) "You make me go the long way!" I said something about it being the cooler way, or the more fun/interesting way, and he said "True." That was a couple months ago, and he still walks that way with me every day! It may be totally true that he really didn't realize until then; however, just the way he said it kind of reminded me of how I would say something like that, that I had really realized a while ago, but I wanted to bring up casually in conversation to subtly let the other person know that I enjoyed spending time with them.

Again, it's totally possible he really had just realized... but I find it extremely hard to believe that someone as intelligent as him didn't notice that his classroom was right there. So, you guys, please tell me if I'm way off-base with that part.

Other than that, he demonstrates the typical says something that makes me think he likes me one moment, says something that makes me think that he thinks that whatever I just said was stupid the next. So frustrating! And of course, my tendency to find hidden meanings in every little thing doesn't help either.

So... what do you guys think? You're the experts here... Does he like me? Does he not like me? Does he know whether or not he likes me? Has he even considered the question of whether he likes me or not???

How can I bring him around to make him at least consider me in a romantic context without sticking my neck out there too far? (Remember, I'm introverted too! INFPs also fear rejection...)

Thank you so much for your guys' insight. I just hope it's enough...

 

[Luzian]

Just because he thinks what you said is stupid, doesn't mean he doesn't like you also.
No one likes rejection, but it's part of life, and assuming you're in high-school, it's fitting to say it's a part of growing up too.

You are both probably trying to figure out what the other is thinking, going nowhere to progress. On his end, he probably is fond of being liked, but at the same time, is deciding if he really likes you. Well, at least enough to move things forward.

The fact is, we can speculate forever about what he thinks, but you wont know 'till you find out yourself.

 

[flow]

I think you'll find that you two will be exceptionally close friends, but never a working couple. He probably likes you A LOT, but at the same time he probably doesn't know what he wants and neither do you. As for him realizing you're making him take the long way, I think what was actually going on there was him just making a cute joke, nothing more. I think you should definitely pursue friendship with him, maybe more if it happens naturally.. but know that your ideal person is going to be something more along the lines of an ENFJ.. nothing like an INTP, but equally great. Have fun in high school..! (I was borderline miserable)

 

[Luzian]

what was actually going on there was him just making a cute joke, nothing more.

the joke may be a joke, but for him to go the long way, goes a long way. People don't go out their way for nothing. Maybe he does it because he enjoys her company, and nothing more. As you said, neither of them may know what they want. The way I see it, girls and guys don't make good friends except when they have still much to learn from each other. Maybe inter-gender friendships might exist outside the context in which I am aware, but as far as I have seen, they're only reinforced by one of them liking the other, but the feeling isn't mutual, effectively keeping them away from an intimate relationship, and from complete separation. So they might as well go for it. What's the most she could lose, her heart? It'll grow back, and more adapted to the real world.

I always say go for it. Learning is always worth the pain.

 

[Luzian]

duplicate post

 

[flow]

I think it's quite possible to have inter-gender friendships, I have several! And honestly, when can you say that you don't have much to learn from the opposite sex? It's true that a lot of inter-gender relationships started out being of sexual interest, but often you come to terms with the attraction you have for someone, even if it's platonic. And of course he's interested in her and wiling to take the long route (I bet he looks forward to it), she's an INFP and very similarly minded to himself (and yet, quite different). If I ran into an INFP in high school, I'd be interested too! And on that note, anyone who you are interested in, regardless of why, go ahead and be interested in. Get to know him as much as you can, his INTPness will always be worthwhile.

 

[Luzian]

Well, if she wants to be friends, that's her choice. My choice would be different.

 

[flow]

Haha oh? And what would your choice be?

*puts on curious eyes

 

[Luzian]

Haha oh? And what would your choice be?

*puts on curious eyes

I don't want girls as friends. Use your imagination.

 

[Jules]

Well, I guess he likes you enough to "go the long way" instead of walking straight to where he should be going.
You can make of that what you want. I for sure wouldn't take extra trouble to hang around someone I don't like for some reason.

What I don't read in your story is if you do things together outside of school, maybe not just the two of you, but as part of a group. So I assume you don't see eachother outside of school.

Well, change that. Hang out after school. Just ask... no is already your answer, it can only turn to yes by asking... or suggesting... or however you want to do it. :P

 

[boku]

I agree with the rest that having him to wait for you and walk the long way is significant, coming from an INTP. Heck, I don't remember ever doing that for someone, I'm just too lazy.
The interest for accompanying you might and might not be of attraction though, it could be that he was happy to have someone who shares the same interests as him, it could be a crush he hasn't realised on his side... What do you guys usually talk about when he accompanies you? And from what you know, does he have anyone else who talks about topics he's interested in with the same passion as you?

 

[FusionKnight]

Other than that, he demonstrates the typical says something that makes me think he likes me one moment, says something that makes me think that he thinks that whatever I just said was stupid the next. So frustrating! And of course, my tendency to find hidden meanings in every little thing doesn't help either.

Well, it sure sounds as if he's got a strong interest in you. As others have said, people don't go out of their way for nothing, and as an INTP I'm sure he had already considered the implications, and probably got a knot in the gut when he made his "cute" joke because he was worried about being too obvious about what he was doing. It sounds like the sort of thing I would say to try and gently hint I was interested.

And INTPs are usually accused of making other people (non-T's in particular) feel stupid. Honestly, we don't do this on purpose. We just crave clarity, so we tend to nitpick details, and we revel in the intellectual. The goal is internal, never an external need to dominate others.

I think you'll find that you two will be exceptionally close friends, but never a working couple. I think you should definitely pursue friendship with him, maybe more if it happens naturally.. but know that your ideal person is going to be something more along the lines of an ENFJ.. nothing like an INTP, but equally great.

I don't like the idea of limiting possible mates by personality type right off the bat. Sure, personality differences might cause friction, but every relationship, no matter how "ideal" will be full of misunderstandings, stupid mistakes, and moments of selfishness. The way to make a relationship survive is to apply listening, forgiveness, and patience in liberal quantities.

What I don't read in your story is if you do things together outside of school, maybe not just the two of you, but as part of a group. So I assume you don't see eachother outside of school.

Well, change that. Hang out after school. Just ask... no is already your answer, it can only turn to yes by asking... or suggesting... or however you want to do it. :P

I think this is an excellent suggestion. Getting to know someone is a complicated process, and it's best to observe that person in as many different settings and situations as possible. How does he relate with his friends? How does he relate with yours? How does he relate with authority figures, subordinates, parents, etc? The more varied group activities you can be a part of together, the more you will learn about each other, and this can only benefit any potential relationship.

Remember too, that (assumption on my part) if you're in high school you need to grow as a person and find an identity on your own, and getting entangled in romantic relationships can make this process more difficult. You also will end up being a much better mate after you've reached some conclusions about your own identity, and can expend a greater proportion of your energy on helping your mate grow (this works both ways).

Now, I don't want to sound condescending about young love, because I know that when love happens, it just happens. I ended up marrying my high school sweetheart, after all, so who am I to talk? However, I learned a great deal about myself, relationships, identity and such by going through a strange and convoluted romantic adventure when I was in high school, and I always hope that my experiences might prove useful to someone else.

Take things slow. Be patient. Be honest. Find out who you are. Don't tie up your definition of self with a boyfriend. If a relationship is going to happen, he will need the real you, not an empty shell looking for an identity. Don't spend too much time alone together. Use groups to your advantage, as an opportunity to learn more about this guy, and what makes him tick. Develop a strong friendship before advancing things romantically. Butterflies-in-the-stomach romance does fade with time, but a solid friendship will last.

Just some thoughts delved from my experience...

 

[snowyashes]

You also will end up being a much better mate after you've reached some conclusions about your own identity, and can expend a greater proportion of your energy on helping your mate grow (this works both ways).

...

Find out who you are. Don't tie up your definition of self with a boyfriend. If a relationship is going to happen, he will need the real you, not an empty shell looking for an identity.

This is very good advice. The thing is that I have recently been spending a lot of time doing just that-- finding out who I am. The last guy I liked (a LOT, and for two years straight) decided, even though it was clear to me that I was everything he was looking for, that it would be a good idea to fall madly in love... with my best friend. Ouch. That led me to do a lot of thinking about... well, just stuff in general. I am really confident in who I am now (which I was forced to exclude the other guy from)... and I'm ready to learn about someone else.

I think this is an excellent suggestion. Getting to know someone is a complicated process, and it's best to observe that person in as many different settings and situations as possible. How does he relate with his friends? How does he relate with yours? How does he relate with authority figures, subordinates, parents, etc? The more varied group activities you can be a part of together, the more you will learn about each other, and this can only benefit any potential relationship.

I find this interesting, because this is exactly what I do. This is how I do "research" on people that I like... it's especially my weapon of choice, so to speak, with him, because 1) we only have one class together; 2) he has an entirely different group of friends from me (we came from the only two different middle schools that feed into our high school), and, he being an INTP and me being an INFP, we both have a relatively small circle of close friends (his circle's bigger, lol), but his friends and my friends all eat in the same hallway where no one else sits, and his friends are mostly very loud and outgoing, and of course he's very open and enthusiastic with them, so it's very easy for me to observe him in this setting; and 3) because there's no way I can like someone who doesn't treat other people well-- especially their friends-- and he has most definitely passed this test several times over.

I would respond to some other people's posts right now, but I have to go to school now... where I don't get to see him until 3rd period... *sigh*... if he's even there. He wasn't there yesterday. ... So I will respond to some more posts when I get home. But thanks for all the responses so far, guys. I really appreciate it. I'll try and use some of your suggestions today.

Later...

 

[FusionKnight]

There's no way I can like someone who doesn't treat other people well-- especially their friends-- and he has most definitely passed this test several times over.

I would suggest you also try to discover how he interacts with his mother. This will give you a strong indication of how he's learned to treat women, especially ones who are close to him. I know from personal experience that the friction and unresolved issues between my mother and I will occasionally resurface, directed at my wife.

 

[Ogion]

Hi and welcome to the forum, snowyashes. May you find interesting and enlightening discussions, if you are here for it as well. Otherwise i wish you good luck with that INTP
(Does your nick by any chance have something to do with "A Breath of Snow and Ashes" by Diana Gabaldon?)

Well, i can't add anything but agree with the things already said before. For example by Jules and Fusion. Yea, and add that i never had acrush or even a relationship, so i'm no big help here

Ogion

 

[fullerene]

Take things slow. Be patient. Be honest. Find out who you are. Don't tie up your definition of self with a boyfriend. If a relationship is going to happen, he will need the real you, not an empty shell looking for an identity.

^ most important thing said so far ^

Remember too, that (assumption on my part) if you're in high school you need to grow as a person and find an identity on your own, and getting entangled in romantic relationships can make this process more difficult. You also will end up being a much better mate after you've reached some conclusions about your own identity, and can expend a greater proportion of your energy on helping your mate grow (this works both ways).

^ second most important thing said so far ^


I couldn't tell you, from your description, what he thinks of you now. If I really liked someone, I would walk the long way. If I were talking to someone and we had stuff to talk about, I would still walk the long way. Hell, if I didn't have that much fun with them, but thought they were really nice and well intentioned towards others and wanted to talk to me, I would still walk the long way (as long as they didn't really annoy me). It could really be anything... so I wouldn't try to guess how interested someone is by "reading for signs" (or... I dunno... maybe it works for you. It never did for me or anyone I knew in high school who tried it, though)

What I can say, as something I think would be INTP related, is that I've never once immediately swooned with a crush for someone. Attraction doesn't hit me instantly like that, and even if it did I would never act on it (it's just a feeling, right?). I really, really need to know the person first, so it would almost certainly start as just a friendship and grow closer and deeper as we trusted each other more over time, until eventually we just "became" a couple.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Reading this thread is proof positive that we INTPs are bad at relationships and some INFPs could use some work themselves.

Does he like you? DUH!

He likes you so much he is willing to "go the long way" with you. The double meaning of that remark says it all.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

I think you'll find that you two will be exceptionally close friends, but never a working couple. He probably likes you A LOT, but at the same time he probably doesn't know what he wants and neither do you. As for him realizing you're making him take the long way, I think what was actually going on there was him just making a cute joke, nothing more. I think you should definitely pursue friendship with him, maybe more if it happens naturally.. but know that your ideal person is going to be something more along the lines of an ENFJ.. nothing like an INTP, but equally great. Have fun in high school..! (I was borderline miserable)

Sure, maybe neither of them know what they want, but I think it's very important to still date and try to get close to some person. I was also borderline miserable in high school- and I think that's because I was way too cautious about asking girls out. I only ended up having one pretty pathetic relationship that lasted for a couple months.

Also INTP-INFP relationships are wonderful, don't be a hater.

... So I assume you don't see eachother outside of school.

Well, change that. Hang out after school. Just ask... no is already your answer, it can only turn to yes by asking... or suggesting... or however you want to do it. :P

Fusion beat me to it, but this is an awesome way to think about it. (Bold for emphasis.)

I agree with the rest that having him to wait for you and walk the long way is significant, coming from an INTP. Heck, I don't remember ever doing that for someone, I'm just too lazy.
The interest for accompanying you might and might not be of attraction though, it could be that he was happy to have someone who shares the same interests as him, it could be a crush he hasn't realised on his side... What do you guys usually talk about when he accompanies you? And from what you know, does he have anyone else who talks about topics he's interested in with the same passion as you?

I'm sure he's realized the crush, INTPs are great at analyzing things, including their own thoughts.

I would suggest you also try to discover how he interacts with his mother. This will give you a strong indication of how he's learned to treat women, especially ones who are close to him. I know from personal experience that the friction and unresolved issues between my mother and I will occasionally resurface, directed at my wife.

That's weird... for a long time I had a bad relationship with my mom. I had heard the saying "the way he treats his mother is the way he will treat his girlfriend" but I FIRMLY disagreed with it. It should have no reason to come up unless I date someone the same type as my mom, and I don't plan to!

My mom and I have a good relationship now, and while I had a bad one with her I wasn't dating, so I guess I won't know if problems with my mom will come out against my S.O.

My suggestions: Hint how you feel. A lot of people here have been suggesting caution and that being friends is okay... feh to them! Wouldn't it be even worse if your caution was interpreted as disinterest, or just platonic friendship?
That'd suck. Make a move while you can.

 

[fullerene]

Wouldn't it be even worse if your caution was interpreted as disinterest, or just platonic friendship?
That'd suck. Make a move while you can.

That's true, too. I did not, in any way, mean to be suggesting caution or acting just like a friend (if I sounded like that) if you want more. I was just trying to help you get into his mind, because that's how I grow attracted to people. I'd definitely suggest you just show as much interest as you actually fee, and let him sort it out... you might chase him away doing that, but it's still in both of your best interests if you try (plus, INTPs very highly value sincerity, and "social customs" don't usually apply. I'd understand if I found out after a few months that someone had a serious crush on me, but tip-toed around it... but I would have gained immense respect for them, even if I didn't feel the same way, if they'd just said something straitforward earlier).

 

[boku]

I'm sure he's realized the crush, INTPs are great at analyzing things, including their own thoughts.

Darn it, I analyse my own thoughts and take a long time to come to a conclusion. Took me 4 days to sort out my thoughts (and feelings) and say 'no' to someone who confessed to me. Maybe that's just me not being in tuned with my feelings enough to tell the difference between true love and puppy love.

(plus, INTPs very highly value sincerity, and "social customs" don't usually apply. I'd understand if I found out after a few months that someone had a serious crush on me, but tip-toed around it... but I would have gained immense respect for them, even if I didn't feel the same way, if they'd just said something straitforward earlier).

I highly agree with that.

 

[world]

All you really are doing by reaching out here is to build up confidence to pursue him.

You've already convinced yourself that:

1. You like him.
2. He likes you.

I think that you know he likes you, and are unwilling to admit it.

Just go for it....

My suggestion, when you get at the end of the hall and have to go separate ways...this is waht you should do:
Fuck school, who needs it.
Ditch class.
Smoke a joint.
Fuck each other.


Problem solved. I'm sure he'll be excited if you pounce on him (especially if he has no idea you're behind him).

You should definitely pounce on him from behind him, and make sure you jump on him so hard that his head hits the ground and he gets a concussion. Ok, so when he's blacked out he'll have to smoke a joint with you and fuck you. Right? What other choice does he have?

Conclusion: Men like brute force.

 

[Fukyo]

All you really are doing by reaching out here is to build up confidence to pursue him.

You've already convinced yourself that:

1. You like him.
2. He likes you.

I think that you know he likes you, and are unwilling to admit it.

Just go for it....

My suggestion, when you get at the end of the hall and have to go separate ways...this is waht you should do:
Fuck school, who needs it.
Ditch class.
Smoke a joint.
Fuck each other.


Problem solved. I'm sure he'll be excited if you pounce on him (especially if he has no idea you're behind him).

You should definitely pounce on him from behind him, and make sure you jump on him so hard that his head hits the ground and he gets a concussion. Ok, so when he's blacked out he'll have to smoke a joint with you and fuck you. Right? What other choice does he have?

Conclusion: Men like brute force.

 

[EditorOne]

"So... what do you guys think? You're the experts here... "


Umm, no, we're not the experts, we're the INTPs.

Here's the thing: We're good at some things and not so good at other things. We're not real facile with emotions or reading emotions or -- get ready -- projecting emotions. Trying to figure out what an INTP is feeling by what seem to be feeling-based comments or actions is about as useful as figuring out how fast a car is going by what color it is.

He's an INTP. Stop guessing and just have a talk with him. All this boy chasing girl crap is quite literally boring for most INTPs, it's like a conversation going on around you in a language you don't speak.

Tell him "I've been thinking" and then proceed to "that I need to make sure you know how much I like being around you, but I'm not real good at being direct so please know this is an awkward moment for me." (Which I assume to be the case based on the fact you'd rather discuss this with 300 total strangers than with him.) So we have key words of "thinking," "know" and "awkward moment" all in one long sentence, and believe me if he's INTP he knows all about awkward.

The question I have, pardon my curiosity but I'm after all an INTP, is whether he is a self-aware INTP or whether your questionnaire took him by surprise. Is he in denial or acceptance? Or doesn't put too much stock in it? Those of us who are self-aware are a little more charitable toward our own relative emotional dysfunctionality than those struggling in darkness to make sense of a world that makes no frigging sense at all until you are given the magic key to understanding.

I hope all of that is of some use.

 

[FusionKnight]

Those of us who are self-aware are a little more charitable toward our own relative emotional dysfunctionality than those struggling in darkness to make sense of a world that makes no frigging sense at all until you are given the magic key to understanding.

Oh heck yes. Isn't that the truth!

The words "you're not broken, you're supposed to be that way" are some of the sweetest words I've ever heard.

 

[snowyashes]

I would suggest you also try to discover how he interacts with his mother. This will give you a strong indication of how he's learned to treat women, especially ones who are close to him. I know from personal experience that the friction and unresolved issues between my mother and I will occasionally resurface, directed at my wife.

That's an interesting thought. I know (or at least, I'm kind of sensing) that he really respects his mother. (I don't know how they interact, but that's a start, right?) Or even if he doesn't respect her, although he just seems like a very respectful person in general, he at least cares a lot for her and/or enjoys spending time or talking with her. I mentioned how a few friends and I had had a little "movie night" type-thing one weekend, and I was totally gushing about what an amazing movie Pride and Prejudice was. He asked me about it, because he hadn't seen it, and made some comment about how it seemed like it would be a book that was really easy to mess up with a movie. I was surprised, but I told him that it was pretty close to the book, but a little different-- except it was different in a good way, and somehow not in way that made the book seem lame in comparison. Somewhere in there I threw in the sidenote "--I'm assuming you haven't read the book..." And said "Oh, no. But my mom's a huge Jane Austen buff." He said it with a smile. It kind of reminded me of when you know some random bit of trivia, and someone is like "Um, how do you know that?" and you tell them it's because one of your friends is really into whatever the topic was. So that says to me that he's friends with his mom. Also, I know that his grandmother lives next door to them, and he seems like he thinks she's pretty cool too.

One interesting thing. Once I asked him what his parents did, and he told me that his mom was an attorney or something, and then he kind of went off on a tangent before the conversation (which wasn't just us-- it was also two of my friends, who also happen to both be in his Health class, so he knows them too) kind of died out. Then we got up to the front of the lunch line, which pretty much cut off anything else that he might have said. So I've heard him mention his mother in passing, but never his father. It's not like he's hiding anything, I've just never heard him mention it. The weird thing is that most people, if on the topic of parents, would say something like "Well, I just live with my mom," or "...my mom and step-dad," or whatever. But I don't really get the impression that he lives with a single or remarried parent. So maybe he's just not on good terms with his dad or something? I'm not sure what to think about that.

Huh... do you think maybe his mom is an INFP? I mean, all I really know about her (besides the attorney thing) is that she's a Jane Austen buff, but of all my friends (all of whom loved Pride and Prejudice), the only ones who get really into it are me and my ISFP friend. ISFPs and INFPs have a lot in common... such as (mostly) being closet romance junkies. So do you think it's possible that, if we're working under the theory that how he treats/ thinks of his mother is somewhat representative of how he will treat/think of women in general, he also will be attracted to someone who is similar to his mother, and that his mother is an INFP? (Or at least an ISFP or something comparable?)

That was just an idea that popped into my head. I don't know if any of that is just wishful thinking/me leaping to conclusions, or if it's actually plausible... what do you think?

(That's not my only evidence for suspecting at least what kind of person in general his mother is... but the rest is really trivial, just bits and pieces I picked up on in other conversations, and this post is entirely too long already, because once I start writing, more stuff always pops into my head, and I figure, "Why not get it all out there at once while I'm already on a roll, and not have to remember it all separately later?" and then I never stop writing, so, considering how long my entire post is, plus the addition of this extremely long sentence, I just really want to post it, so I can get some more awesome feed back from you guys! ... *deeeeep breath.* )

 

[snowyashes]

Oh, wow! Four people posted while I was typing out my ridiculously lengthy comment! Okay, hang on. I will respond to all the amazing new insight I have received in just a moment.

 

[snowyashes]

All you really are doing by reaching out here is to build up confidence to pursue him.

You've already convinced yourself that:

1. You like him.
2. He likes you.

I think that you know he likes you, and are unwilling to admit it.

Just go for it....

... yeah. Okay, that's probably [mostly] true. (Hence the "unwilling to admit it" part.)

My suggestion, when you get at the end of the hall and have to go separate ways...this is waht you should do:
Fuck school, who needs it.
Ditch class.
Smoke a joint.
Fuck each other.


Problem solved. I'm sure he'll be excited if you pounce on him (especially if he has no idea you're behind him).

You should definitely pounce on him from behind him, and make sure you jump on him so hard that his head hits the ground and he gets a concussion. Ok, so when he's blacked out he'll have to smoke a joint with you and fuck you. Right? What other choice does he have?

Conclusion: Men like brute force.

....

....

....

... Um, you know what? As great as that sounds (no, really), I think I'll have to pass on that one. Thanks for the suggestion, though!

EditorOne:

"So... what do you guys think? You're the experts here... "


Umm, no, we're not the experts, we're the INTPs.

Here's the thing: We're good at some things and not so good at other things. We're not real facile with emotions or reading emotions or -- get ready -- projecting emotions. Trying to figure out what an INTP is feeling by what seem to be feeling-based comments or actions is about as useful as figuring out how fast a car is going by what color it is.

He's an INTP. Stop guessing and just have a talk with him. All this boy chasing girl crap is quite literally boring for most INTPs, it's like a conversation going on around you in a language you don't speak.

Tell him "I've been thinking" and then proceed to "that I need to make sure you know how much I like being around you, but I'm not real good at being direct so please know this is an awkward moment for me." (Which I assume to be the case based on the fact you'd rather discuss this with 300 total strangers than with him.) So we have key words of "thinking," "know" and "awkward moment" all in one long sentence, and believe me if he's INTP he knows all about awkward.

This is fabulous advice. Now I just have to get over my fear of (another) rejection. I know that even he does "reject" me, it will be way different, because first of all, he is showing signs of returned interest, and second of all, it wouldn't really be a "rejection" per se, because I know he would be much nicer.... however, I'm still totally freaked out! It's not even like I'm actually asking out or anything as big as that, but what if it gets all awkward and icky and... ugh! I know risk-taking is part of making a relationship work... but the introvert in me is covering her ears and shrieking at the top of her lungs whenever I try and tell her that. I guess I just have to work up the confidence to do the unthinkable. Great.

The question I have, pardon my curiosity but I'm after all an INTP, is whether he is a self-aware INTP or whether your questionnaire took him by surprise. Is he in denial or acceptance? Or doesn't put too much stock in it? Those of us who are self-aware are a little more charitable toward our own relative emotional dysfunctionality than those struggling in darkness to make sense of a world that makes no frigging sense at all until you are given the magic key to understanding.

Actually, I sent him links to a couple different tests along with a couple different sites with profiles of the various types, and suggested he check it out. This was about midway through winter break. He never emailed me back, but when we came back to school, when he saw me in science, he greeted me with a humongous smile and enthusiastic "Hey!," then sat down. As soon as he touched the seat, he looked up (as I was about to walk away to my seat, since the bell was about to ring) and said "Oh! INTP!" And I said, "Oh, you took the test?" He said "Yeah! You're... INFP, right?" This kind of surprised me since none of my other friends remembered what my type was (even though I had already memorized all of theirs... it sucks being the only INFP around who reads all her friends' horoscopes as well as her own ) .

After science, as we were walking down the hall, what we talked about that day was basically him telling me how he'd been finishing his huge Health project the entire second half of break, and had been out of communication with the world since Christmas. (In response to a previous question, we usually just talk about anything weird that happened in science, something funny that happened recently to one of us, or, if we don't talk about any of that, one of us will either ask each other a question, or make a comment that will lead to conversation. Such as this: "Nice gloves." Yeah, somehow we can make conversation out of that. There's not a lot of time to get into a really deep conversation, because we only have about a minute, minute and a half, tops, before we reach the end of the hall.)

 

[FusionKnight]

One interesting thing. Once I asked him what his parents did, and he told me that his mom was an attorney or something, and then he kind of went off on a tangent before the conversation (which wasn't just us-- it was also two of my friends, who also happen to both be in his Health class, so he knows them too) kind of died out. Then we got up to the front of the lunch line, which pretty much cut off anything else that he might have said. So I've heard him mention his mother in passing, but never his father. It's not like he's hiding anything, I've just never heard him mention it. The weird thing is that most people, if on the topic of parents, would say something like "Well, I just live with my mom," or "...my mom and step-dad," or whatever. But I don't really get the impression that he lives with a single or remarried parent. So maybe he's just not on good terms with his dad or something? I'm not sure what to think about that.

You know, I was tempted to get into this earlier, but now I can't shirk anymore!

Men in general, and I think American men in particular, suffer a huge wound delivered by our fathers (whether they know it or not) when we reach the age when it's time to graduate from Boy to Man. It takes a man to teach a boy to become a man, and too many fathers of boys are either absent, abusive, or suffering from their own wound, and are unable to guide their sons into Manhood.

Others may disagree, but I believe this to be a universal truth.

Usually, the wound takes the form of a father, or other older male mentor, telling a boy directly or indirectly, or more often though omission and oversight, that he is still a boy, that he will never have what it takes to be a man, and that he'll never be good enough. This is devastating to the masculine journey. Some men never realize the wound and persist in an undead life, never knowing why they experience such emptiness and pain on the inside. Other men react out of anger, fear, and a need for self-protection and become bullies or abusers. Some men discover their wound and struggle with the healing process through their entire lives.

The reason I bring this up is that for a young man the message he has heard from his father will possibly be the most defining inheritance he will ever receive, and will affect him the rest of his life.

When you discover who this young man's father is and you begin to understand their relationship, you will find revealed his most insecure and terrified self, and the wound that most desperately needs to be healed. He needs to hear that he's good enough. He needs to hear he has what it takes. He needs a man he looks up to and trusts to look him in the eye and hand him the mantel of manhood, and tell him that he's ready now to become a man.

Understanding this will give you great understanding of this young man, but realize too that although you can help him, you won't be able to give him what he really needs: a man to grant him manhood. Perhaps for the INTP this is particularly true; we are insecure in our identities anyway, always analyzing and debating with ourselves. We're our own worst enemies and constantly point out flaws in ourselves, and see the worst we have to offer.

 

[EditorOne]

"however, I'm still totally freaked out! It's not even like I'm actually asking out or anything as big as that, but what if it gets all awkward and icky and... ugh! I know risk-taking is part of making a relationship work... but the introvert in me is covering her ears and shrieking at the top of her lungs"

And if his introvert is freaking out simultaneously .... never shall there be sparks, brilliant sunsets or elves singing ethereally while they trek to Rivendell.... just two folks exchanging pleasant banalities in 90-second bunches. :-)


Ya know the more I think about it the more I think an alternate form of previous advice from another poster might work best: Grab him by the ears and give him a robust smooch. It's kind of like the solution to untying the Gordian knot: Use a sword.

 

[Jesin]

Ya know the more I think about it the more I think an alternate form of previous advice from another poster might work best: Grab him by the ears and give him a robust smooch.

Ooh, hold on there. Judging from what I've read here, this has less to do with him accepting this than with her getting up the courage to go through with it. That approach would make things harder, not easier.

 

[snowyashes]

(RESPONSE TO EDITORONE'S POST)

Exactly... I guess I just need to wait for an opportunity, then just say it (or, um, "act") before I lose my nerve.

Kind of like... kind of like auditioning for a solo! It took me a really long time to figure that one out. I know I'm a good singer, but I also knew other people who thought they were amazing singers and they were actually horrible, but everyone was too nice (or not nice enough, from my perspective) to tell them so. It took me a long time, but one day, when everyone was talking throughout the auditions, I finally realized that, apart from the teacher, no one else was listening. They didn't care if I sucked. They were all wrapped up in their own little worlds, not sitting there, silently cheering for me to fail. No one was judging me... I just had to give it my best. I didn't give it quite my best that first time, but I did give it a lot of effort, and after I was chosen as the alternate, I worked myself up to confidence pretty quickly. Now I get solos all the time. If I don't get one, it doesn't matter to me, because I know there will be others.

Although it's a little more complicated since emotions are involved (and I have pretty intense emotions, too), I think it's essentially the same principal. With some time and effort, that analogy alone just may be able to hold me up above my fear of falling just long enough to jump...

 

[snowyashes]

Ooh, hold on there. Judging from what I've read here, this has less to do with him accepting this than with her getting up the courage to go through with it. That approach would make things harder, not easier.

Yes! That's kind of what I was just thinking through in my last post...

(Sorry. You must have posted while I was typing.)

 

[EditorOne]

Ooh, hold on there. Judging from what I've read here, this has less to do with him accepting this than with her getting up the courage to go through with it. That approach would make things harder, not easier.

Yeah, but it has the advantage of ending the uncertainty in one memorable moment. :-) However it turned out there would be no doubt that an effective level of unmistakable communication was deployed....

OK, modify. Get up your nerve, approach him as originally outlined, and if it's successful, then grab his ears and proceed.

Your auditioning analogy was perfect, kind of like the advice I once got that if I realized how much attention people lavish on themselves compared to how much they extend to others, I'd worry a lot less.

May I suggest that he clearly shows interest, since he seems to be taking some effort to hang around you? That's pretty big, I think. And I think it's also important you really embrace the possibility he may be undergoing exactly the same mental torture as you for exactly the same reasons, he's just thinking his way into a corner instead of feeling his way there. You should agree on a corner and meet there. :-)

There's another approach, kinda like international relations. You take a step and if he matches it, you take another step. It's been a long time since i went through any of these rituals, but I vaguely remember "study dates" at the library as a kind of a first step. Since I'm not sure what role libraries play these days in most people's lives, maybe some other location, but the idea is there's a reason to do it and all you are doing is spend time in each other's company. The next step up would be a suggestion he might want to take part in some activity in your life outside school. You mentioned singing? You perform? Or something. And then next time you're hungry, going to get something to eat, would he like to join you, etc.

There may be a real-world reason why he couldn't take part in something, so you can't take it to the bank if he says no, but you can consider it a positive sign if he says yes, and escalate from neutral kinds of things to activities that actual couples do, like specifically arranging an outing. And grabbing ears, etc. You go from doing your own activities in each other's presence to doing things with each other.

SOMEBODY has to take the initiative. Small steps mean you don't fall as far and it doesn't hurt as much. Or something.

 

[snowyashes]

That sounds about right. I did ask him if he was interested in one extracurricular activity, but he said he couldn't since he's got a lot going on already... he's a boy scout. (AWWW...) (...Just for the record, that awww was not meant to be derogatory in any way-- I really think that's cool. ... My dad was a boy scout... Then, after he left the Marine Core, he was a scout leader person. Incidentally, I'm pretty dang sure my dad is an INTP too...) (Whenever we have to wear those stupid aprons in the chemistry lab, he--my friend, not my dad--always ties a square knot instead of a bow, and then he inevitably gets stuck in his apron. Lol... hilarious! --Definitely in a good way.-- He also tends to get splashed with chemicals because when stuff reacts, he always gets too into it and leans right in over the beaker to watch, and then -POP!- it explodes in his face or something.)

However, I did beg him to come to the homecoming football game (neither of us went to the dance... bleh, dances) (... although dances would be fine, I'm sure, if one had a date...), because I had been to my first football game a couple weeks before and had a blast, and I wanted him to come too. He said he didn't think he could come, and didn't appear that interested, but when I showed up and met up with my friends... he was there! He talked to everyone, but for the most part we spent the entire evening listening to his iPod (did I mention he LOVES music???) and having very deep discussion about sci-fi novels (especially stories by people like George Orwell and Aldous Huxley, if you considered that sci-fi, which I don't, really), sci-fi films/computer games, and milk. He also educated me on the basic principles of (PLEASE FORGIVE ME I'M GOING TO KILL THE SPELLING HERE) nihilism (???), which I found very interesting, and he seemed very enthusiastic about. Probably mostly because, you know, I actually seemed interested. :-) We were sitting extremely close the entire night and hardly looked at anyone else (let alone the football game) (... except when he also attempted to explain football to me, but he doesn't get it much better than I do, so that didn't work out too well), and my friends all spent the entire evening sitting behind us tittering, which he seemed completely oblivious to... but he wouldn't really have a reason to expect that the reason for the giggles of my unsurpassably immature friends were due to the "...sittin' in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G..." text messages they were sending each other!

I was floating on a cloud all weekend long...

But he didn't come to the next game, which was the last home game that I went to (he was busy), and nothing that intense has happened since.

 

[snowyashes]

Huh. I think someone mentioned something about reasoning with and logically convincing oneself that a relationship wouldn't work out. (I might have also read that somewhere else, so please forgive me if I'm wrong.)

What would some of the reasons be that he (or anyone) might think would make a relationship with me (or someone similar) might be a bad idea? (Aside from the trouble of actually initiating such a relationship...)

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

If he is INTP, he probably has no idea how to advance things further. It doesn't sound like he doesn't want a relationship. Deep down it seems like he does. I would bet he either doesn't know how to proceed or worse case scenario, he has some kind of hang-up about it and feels embarrassed, however since you said he seemed oblivious to your friends tittering, I doubt it has anything to do with peer perception. I had that growing up as I found it meant being part of the gossip which horrified me for some reason. Do you know anything of his homelife?

 

[snowyashes]

Um, not really... I know he thinks a lot. (What a surprise... lol) I also know he mentioned something, when I asked him to come to one of the football games, about not going to things very often-- not because he wasn't interested, or because he didn't think he would have fun, but because it was too much work to arrange and plan and stuff (he definitely used the word "lazy" in there a couple of times)... and I totally identify with that. Other than that, I don't really know a whole lot, except that he logs onto YouTube every few days, and it's usually around 10 pm, so I'm guessing he does something. I don't really know that much about his family or anything, either.

 

[Wisp]

Hah. I do the exact same thing for musical performances (Cello, vocals, somewhat, and I'm leaarning guitar). The whole "no one really gives a damn" approach helps... Though I think one needs to interact with the audience, and pay attention to be truly great... *END TANGEANT*

You spelled nihilism correctly.

I AM a male in high school. Being myself, and speaking as him, I would have a tendency to be BLIND. The most effective way to approach this would be to spell the situation out for him in no uncertain terms. Maybe I'm socially inept amongst intps, maybe I'm just a high schooler, but I'm a bit... thick in some regards.

Maybe you could send him a link to this thread??? (I KID, I KID)

Anyway, those are my two cents.

 

[Ogion]

Good two cents, i agree with it from my point of view.
The time i was in school at that age i had this one girl with which i would hang around quite some time (considering i didn't hang out with anybody else...) and i would talk/write notes with her every Latin-class and half our way home, but i never once thought about more than just friendship. And that is not because she would have been 'not my type' or 'unacceptable', i think it could have worked and she was nice, but i simply didn't think about it. So had she done something about it (given she would have been interested) i would have reacted and something could have developed, but since she didn't, nothing happened. So, i don't know if your intp is that way too, but if he is, he will definitely need a starting move from you. Oh and a *clear* one. Meaning something not be interpreted. Something obviously with romantic/relationship interest/motive.

Ogion

 

[Jesin]

I AM a male in high school.

As am I. I will have more to say on this after I've gotten some sleep and of course gone to school.

 

[snowyashes]

Thanks, you guys. I really appreciate it.

What would be some of the reasons that he (or anyone) might think might make a relationship with me (or someone similar) a bad idea? (Aside from the trouble of actually initiating such a relationship...)

Any comments on this question?

 

[snowyashes]

Yeah, you better be kidding... the sad thing is I actually considered sending the thread to him. Or at least a couple of quotes that some of you guys have said. Unfortunately, that would be too pointed for me! However, I can rationally justify not doing it (at least to myself... you guys might be tougher critices ) by saying that I rely so much on my Ie that it would be totally useless for me to email him such a thing, because I wouldn't be there to observe his reaction, and I also wouldn't be there to explain if he misinterpreted something or influence his interpretation.

(You know how think of people a little differently when they're not there? I don't know about you, but when I'm all alone, I tend to view people as very flat... the content of that flat person depends on my interactions with them the last time I've seen them, and/or any thinking I've done or judgements I've made about them since then. For instance, if I had a fight with a friend today, I would think of her as totally closed-minded, whereas last week when she resolved a fight she had with another friend, I would think of her as totally open-minded. When I'm actually in her presence, it's some combination thereof. ... I would want to be there, just in case he had been thinking negatively about me, and therefore would be making a decision based on a mental image of me, instead of me myself. Or, alternatively, in case he was viewing me in a positive light, and responded to my email in way which conveyed as much (thus raising my hopes), and then he saw me at school the next day and realized I wasn't the totally perfect person he emailed last night, and was less interested or expressed regret. That would just totally kill me.)

I really spelled nihilism right? Tight! That is so awesome. I have serious skills. XD

 

[Kuu]

You should just "go for it" but not in the extreme terms Editor One has pointed out. That would be too sudden both for you to go through and for him to take (he might react negatively just because he's being surprised!).

I suggest something much milder (therefore easier), but still decisive. When talking about whatever, slowly and deliberately hold his hand. Not just for a second, or like an accident. Deliberately. As you do that, look him straight in the eyes. Hold both for as long as you can. And then just proceed with your conversation. It must be so long and deliberate that it is an utterly obvious sign that you like him, that you won't oppose him if he wants to pursue a relationship.


Or you could do it the way it happened to me with one girl. She had lunch with me almost every day, sometimes just us, sometimes with some other people. We had been orbiting each other for several months now, deep conversation, occasional innuendo, doubts and uncertainty in the air. Then one day, we were sitting side by side and she just... (how to say this?)... you know how girls cross their legs? With one knee on top of the other? Well she kinda did that, but on top of my knee. An silly little action, that no one even noticed. I then knew without the shadow of a doubt that she liked me so bad. And I let her do that. All the cards were on the table.


Talking is so much better without words. There's no fumbling with what to say, and how to say it.

A couple of weeks later, after me finally thinking through that it might work and was a relationship worth pursuing (I had been hurt before), then the previously dreaded verbal confrontation came. And it flowed from me and she received it as naturally and comfortable as a gentle stream.

If she hadn't done what she did, probably we'd ended up gravitating away, cause being an INTP man in high school means absolute terror of making a first move. We're almost complete social rejects, so what worse than a person we for once actually care about giving us the cold shoulder? Being in a relationship with an INTP means being capable of having initiative and strength enough to get past and survive the INTP's constant self-doubt and complete lack of social skills.


WARNING.
INTPs might look like armoured cars on the outside, but inside they're filled with wine glasses, extremely fragile. And even if unbroken, there are razor sharp edges all around anyway...

If you gain his trust, he might unload all his bottled up feelings upon you, and that might be an unexpected and heavy burden that might scare you away, if you were only used to the Ne side of him, his public, maybe cheerful and silly, chameleonic face.

If you can endure that, then his quest for truth might drag you down into places you could have never thought of. You might feel judged, or constantly criticized, or he might seem constantly unsatisfied with everything. That usually scares away the cheery girls, so you have to have a dark streak within you. He might take you through confusing philosophical paths that might shake the foundations of your world-view, beyond what you are comfortable with (i.e. nihilism). He might ask questions too deep, too hurtful, and he might seem insensitive, not realizing that he has gone too far. INTPs can't detect other's feelings like that, and know no limits when it comes to their intellectual curiosity. Our curiosity is dangerous for other people, specially F types, though we mean no harm, only truth.

If you think he doesn't care, because of his behavior (like the need for space), just ask. It's that simple. Honesty is of paramount importance, so he'll respond honestly to a honest question. Believe him. INTPs are infamous for expressing their feelings in very very unconventional and subsonically, ninja-subtle ways, and then get frustrated because people think they don't care at all...

Don't ever attempt mind games. The INTP lack of emotional awareness means they won't get it, leading only to confusion; if they do get it then the manipulation attempt will be much resented. So talk. If you don't talk about an issue, it will fester inside both of your minds and drive you crazy. INTPs live their lives never talking about their issues, so you must make this effort as well if he does not. Remember, honesty.


Heed this advise, for it is priceless. I speak from hurtful experience, having several girls slip away from me in their frustrated confusion. They thought I was different.


Also, read this thread, see if you have what it takes (if you don't have time, at least read the 2nd post): http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=1210
(WHY has nobody said this before?!)


All in all, be prepared to find something completely different than expected, and to make some compromises. Relationships are naturally messy; more so with INTPs!! Godspeed!

 

[Ogion]

Damn, Tekton, that was a great post! We should find a way to condesne it so that we can wear it on our clothing or our forehead so that everybody can see it right away

Ogion

 

[fullerene]

f you think he doesn't care, because of his behavior (like the need for space), just ask. It's that simple. Honesty is of paramount importance, so he'll respond honestly to a honest question. Believe him. INTPs are infamous for expressing their feelings in very very unconventional and subsonically, ninja-subtle ways, and then get frustrated because people think they don't care at all...

Don't ever attempt mind games. The INTP lack of emotional awareness means they won't get it, leading only to confusion; if they do get it then the manipulation attempt will be much resented. So talk. If you don't talk about an issue, it will fester inside both of your minds and drive you crazy. INTPs live their lives never talking about their issues, so you must make this effort as well if he does not. Remember, honesty.

cosigned

 

[EditorOne]

I agree, Tekton's post was great.


"Talking is so much better without words. There's no fumbling with what to say, and how to say it."

"INTPs might look like armoured cars on the outside, but inside they're filled with wine glasses, extremely fragile. And even if unbroken, there are razor sharp edges all around anyway..."

Coherent, filled with great insights and enlivened with some vivid imagery. Made my day.

 

[Dissident]

If you gain his trust, he might unload all his bottled up feelings upon you, and that might be an unexpected and heavy burden that might scare you away, if you were only used to the Ne side of him, his public, maybe cheerful and silly, chameleonic face.

If you can endure that, then his quest for truth might drag you down into places you could have never thought of. You might feel judged, or constantly criticized, or he might seem constantly unsatisfied with everything. That usually scares away the cheery girls, so you have to have a dark streak within you. He might take you through confusing philosophical paths that might shake the foundations of your world-view, beyond what you are comfortable with (i.e. nihilism). He might ask questions too deep, too hurtful, and he might seem insensitive, not realizing that he has gone too far. INTPs can't detect other's feelings like that, and know no limits when it comes to their intellectual curiosity. Our curiosity is dangerous for other people, specially F types, though we mean no harm, only truth.

Damn, thats true and makes me wonder if Im even worth the trouble.

"What? You like me you say? Are you fucking nuts?!"

 

[EditorOne]

"Damn, thats true and makes me wonder if Im even worth the trouble.

"What? You like me you say? Are you fucking nuts?!" "

Now cut that out. You sound like Rodney Dangerfield: "I could never respect any woman who would sleep with me."

:-)​

 

[kitkat]

Hello Snowyashes- I'm new here, and an INFP, too- but thought I could contribute to this thread. I've been with an INTP for 8 years, and came here for insight. I have to agree with Tekton. He offers some great insight into the INTP, and I think he's spot on.

As an INFP, I'm very romantic, and a dreamer. The emotional aspect is the toughest part of our relationship. I admit in the beginning, he was perfect (haha, I'm an optimist though!). He brought me flowers, called me every night, took me out, and was generally very "gushy". At least compared to now.He was showing his "public, maybe cheerful and silly, chameleonic face", as Tekton put it. Now, he's more serious, and I get to see the "Dark" side of him. He seems to be a pessimist, who's sole purpose in life is to make me cry (it feels like that sometimes). That was probably (is) the #1 trouble in our relationship (which has still been really good!! Thats just an issue that kept cropping up for me). I was always wondering what he felt, if he still loved me (no more flowers or calls), analyzing what he said and what he REALLY meant by it. Also, the fact that he lets me "in" (not in the way I let him in, by talking about every thought and feeling I've had since birth, and going over it as if it happened yesterday), in his own way, tells me that I'm special. Knowing this makes me feel better. He loves me, just not in the right way. He's different.

If you think he doesn't care, because of his behavior (like the need for space), just ask. It's that simple. Honesty is of paramount importance, so he'll respond honestly to a honest question. Believe him. INTPs are infamous for expressing their feelings in very very unconventional and subsonically, ninja-subtle ways, and then get frustrated because people think they don't care at all...

Don't ever attempt mind games. The INTP lack of emotional awareness means they won't get it, leading only to confusion; if they do get it then the manipulation attempt will be much resented. So talk. If you don't talk about an issue, it will fester inside both of your minds and drive you crazy. INTPs live their lives never talking about their issues, so you must make this effort as well if he does not. Remember, honesty.

Tekton hit it dead on. This is something I've come to realise in the last couple years (and our relationshop improved 100%, now that I'm not so insecure!). INTP's say what they mean. And they show love in a different way- not as goofily as we do! But just because they aren't jumping on couches doesn't mean they don't care. He may very well think that he's as good as told you outright, I like you! I mean, he did walk with you in the halls, right?

I know most posters have been encouraging, I have to comment on the one that said INTP's aren't your prefered Type- - Argh! ALL relationshops are tough, and just that fact that you are AWARE you're different with give you a headstart!

That being said, I'm not sure what the big deal is. You both obviously like each other (if he wasn't in to you, he wouldn't walk with you to class). So keep what you're doign. If you're worried he'll lose interest because he thinks YOU'RE not interested, well make sur he knows that- I say invite him to the movies one night or a play or something. Personally, I'd balk at the idea of sittinghim down and saying "I really like you" or anything similar. Falling in love is supposed to be fun, and I don't think that would be very comfortable. Not for me, anyways- even if he initiated!! I like Tektons explanation- he knew she was into him when she put her leg over his. You don't have to go dancing on the table to let him know you like him. Just spend time with him!

My humble opinion rendered. Please don't tear me apart, oh great INTP's...I know you're "smarter" than me, but I'm a girl. SO There!

 

[Ogion]

Hi and welcome, kitkat. May you find interesting and enlightening discussions (for an intp that is my welcome, but i'm not sure if that is what you want or if you want to stay here even without this thread ).

Your post is a good source of wisdom as well
Oh and by the way: I know that it is said about INTPs that we would look down to 'non-smart-as-us-people' but that iis false. For me at least. I wouldn't look down to you just because you are a girl or infp or something. The only thing that anoys me is stubborn, willful stupidity. Which i absolutely did not see in your post

Ogion