Have you had experience with psychedelics?

[snafupants]

I attribute the misconceptions to both lack of experience, and the fact that our idiotic drug scheduling system that places DMT, shrooms, LSD in the same category (I.) as Herion, Cocaine, etc.
[/B]

And GHB and marijuana. That's the dirty little secret of the CSA and DEA.

It's a removing of the 'blinders'. The blinders do serve a purpose: survival. You wouldn't be able to get through life easily if you are constantly criticizing yourself and not rationalizing your actions/behavior. However, OCCASIONALLY removing the blinders can actually be helpful in improving the quality of your life by 'weeding out' negative actions/behavior.

Good point. I agree that occasionally getting out of one's head can be insightful.

Obviously navel gazing for three years straight is evolutionarily disadvantageous.

 

[Sensi Star]

^ Exactly. Now deceased, Terence Mckenna (philosopher, speaker, semi-entertainer) was/is the figurehead for psychedelic culture (not just for extreme hippies who 'dropped out' of society, but for intellectuals and professionals who were drawn to psychs).

I completely agree when Mckenna said that most people use psychedelics the wrong way: they use them often and in low-doses. The correct (most-beneficial) way to use them is rarely, in high-doses. This means you take an utterly ego-shattering dose such as 5 grams of shrooms , only once every year or two. This way, you get the full experience, and afterward you allow plenty of time to integrate that experience into your personal and professional life.

 

[Niclmaki]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj5Sd3BRm_I

Interesting points by Carlin.

 

[themirror]

Interesting points by Carlin.

Not really. These comments should be taken in context of Carlin's life.

If you watch some of his earlier comedy, he associates his identity with the antiestablishment drug culture, and every other word he says is "man."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6a87WDBN8I

Later, he rejected this persona in favor of a more Socratic observer and misanthrope. His comedy adopted a "kill yourself, you stupid fat fuck" approach, and very little of his earlier attitudes are seen.
www.youtube.com/watch?watch?v=nLRQvK2-iqQ

Simply put, as he threw his old self under the bus after the countercultural revolution, he adopted an attitude toward drugs that held them at arm's length. He circumscribes them into a cultural context and while unable to deny their influence on him, he poisons the well by attributing the motivation to rebellion and using burnouts to contend that their usefulness is finite and peripheral to intrinsic motivation. It's a personality dissonance I've seen in personal acquaintance with ENTPs (i.e. Carlin) and it suggests a weak and accessory Ti.

In reality, psychs and weed don't "change values" -- this is a grossly oversimplified summary of a complex and dynamic family of experiences and influences. It's not a pleasure versus pain dichotomy, but it's a perceptual experience in which your mindset determines "good trip" versus "bad trip", which is another dichotomy with which I disagree. All psych experiences reveal facets of you and how you relate to the world, and Carlin's relatively dismissive attitude toward them is more revealing of the struggle of his ego to form a consistent narrative for himself than a stark summary of the value of psychedelic compounds.

P.S. Fuck yeah John Stewart

 

[LarsMac]

Well, I had a bit of fun with the stuff back in the late 60s, early 70s.
Owsley ROCKED!!

 

[Sensi Star]

In reality, psychs and weed don't "change values" -- this is a grossly oversimplified summary of a complex and dynamic family of experiences and influences.

They don't change values in an automatic/simplistic fashion. However, they most certainly tend to force a (re)examination of one's values, which can lead to changing them if they are perceived as needing change. For example, when the selfish ego is at bay the conscientious mind is dominant: I'd bet that if you gave psychedelics to an abusive husband he would most likely at the very least feel guilty about abusing his wife, and perform some extent of moral analysis thereof during the trip.

However I understand (if I read you correctly) that the individual's specific circumstances, i.e. intellect, ability to understand the dynamics of the psych experience, ultimately determine whether those value "changes" will be integrated after the trip ends, or whether they will be 'written off' as artifacts of a 'bad drug experience'.

All psych experiences reveal facets of you and how you relate to the world, and Carlin's relatively dismissive attitude toward them is more revealing of the struggle of his ego to form a consistent narrative for himself than a stark summary of the value of psychedelic compounds.

Well-said, assuming he was dismissive. Though he definitely became less 'hippy' and more 'bitter' with age, I don't recall remembering bits that articulate this alleged relative dismissiveness (syn?). Do you know which bits show good examples of this? Now I'm curious.

 

[themirror]

My latest post was in response to #103 and the video. Carlin says that weed has a little bit of value in the right circumstances, but that people should stay away from everything else.

 

[INeedToPee]

I dabbled with acid and shrooms. But I want to post about this one bad trip I had to see if anyone knows what the hell happened/is it normal. it might not be a bad trip in the common sense of the term (I think people use bad trip to describe trips that cause people to freak out) but i think it was an abnormal trip.

So for that trip, me and my friend each took 2 hits each if I remember correctly. It was LSD in sugar cubes. We dosed and then headed to a music festival with some other people. On the train ride there' we began to experience the trip. We saw colorful patterns and things were "breathing" (pulsating and warping ever so slightly). it was beautiful. When we got there, we went into the crowd and and enjoyed the music. i felt thirsty so i went to go buy a water. pushed my way through the crowd and payed $5 for a bottle of water without really even think about it.

but then shit started getting weird. me and my friends went on carnival ride and i don't remember much of what happened at this point but for the next 3 hours or so, i stopped responding to people. its like i went into extreme introversion mode. i would follow my friends around and go on rides with them but i didn't say a thing. and i don't even remember being aware of doing this, i was just following them. and then i remember frothing saliva at the mouth...im pretty sure this wasn't drug induced but i was looking down and frothed saliva was just coming out of my mouth...like i lost jaw control. my friend started freaking out and was about to call 911. he had me sit down and called someone there who was training to be an emt to make sure i was okay. i slowly came back to reality and everything was normal in terms of perception (normal-trippy). i felt weird, of course, not knowing what the fuck happened for the last 3 hours.

so yeah. does anyone know what might've happened? is this normal at all?

 

[themirror]

and then i remember frothing saliva at the mouth...im pretty sure this wasn't drug induced but i was looking down and frothed saliva was just coming out of my mouth...like i lost jaw control.

You have rabies.

But seriously, I have no idea. Sounds unpleasant.

 

[snafupants]

my friend started freaking out and was about to call 911.

Yeah that certainly doesn't promise to shift an "abnormal trip" into bad trip territory.

 

[DeadonDreaming]

That just sounds weird. I've never heard of any crazy physical ailments like that; the worst I've experienced is sweating a lot due to being really stressed out during a bad trip.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

Are shrooms trips likely to have "flashbacks"?

The last few times I've engaged in the use of marijuana I've experienced things that were highly reminiscent of my shrooms trip.

The thing is, it wasn't in the visuals, which is what I understand to usually be the case when it comes to HPPD and these "flashbacks."

The last few times I've smoked weed it's come along with ridiculous dissociation (I'm not even part of my body and I know it, like I'm just pulling puppet strings on my body), paranoia (I thought one of my best friends was legitimately trying to murder me), hazy or unfocused vision (usually only in my peripherals, and also sometimes slight red/orange-ish tint to my vision), and extreme numbness in my hands, feet, ears, and (most recently) into my shoulders and upper back.

I'm actually not too upset with this (In fact, it's kind of a cool sensation), but I'm interested to know if it's a shrooms "flashback" or if I'm just developing some weird sensitivity to weed or whatever.

 

[themirror]

The last few times I've smoked weed it's come along with ridiculous dissociation (I'm not even part of my body and I know it, like I'm just pulling puppet strings on my body), paranoia (I thought one of my best friends was legitimately trying to murder me), hazy or unfocused vision (usually only in my peripherals, and also sometimes slight red/orange-ish tint to my vision), and extreme numbness in my hands, feet, ears, and (most recently) into my shoulders and upper back.

I'm not an expert regarding shrooms, but I am very familiar with weed
In my experience, some of these sensations come with either smoking a lot not out of a bong or bubbler or with strains low in CBD. It's my understanding that the water filters out a compound known in high doses to induce catatonia.

I remember when a few of us packed 3 straight bowls in a steamroller and were knocked on our asses. I noticed a discernable disruption in my motor reflexes. Movement was delayed and robotic, and my emotive state was oscillating rapidly. Additionally, peripheral vision was reduced, and I was generally uncomfortable. I nearly panicked, but within half an hour most of these reactions disappeared. I should note that this happened after a couple years of nearly daily smoking.

I also saw a documentary in which (under scientific observation) the subject was generally more paranoid and edgy after using a vaporizer (known to only release THC, not CBD) compared to when she smoked instead.

If this sounds anything like your experience let me know.

 

[INeedToPee]

everybody seems to be fixed on the "frothing saliva" part of my post. it does sound bad, i know. i don't think it was a "physical ailment" due to acid, i think it was more like me kind of losing touch with reality, kinda like losing bowel function, so i left my jaw hanging. it was drooling, i think. but it just looked foamy so my friend freaked out

im more concerned with the deep trance i fell into. i mean, is that normal? to be so lost in thoughts like that? i wasn't completely unresponsive because i was still following people around. however, i don't remember consciously doing so...i'm going to drop again sometime soon, psychadelics is an interesting realm to me

and also my friend was completely fine the whole time

 

[Sensi Star]

My latest post was in response to #103 and the video. Carlin says that weed has a little bit of value in the right circumstances, but that people should stay away from everything else.

I honestly think by "everything else" he meant narcotics and drugs that produce dependence. He seems intelligent enough to understand that weed and psychedelics fall into the same general category in terms of effects, lack of toxicity, and lack of physical dependence.

but then shit started getting weird. me and my friends went on carnival ride and i don't remember much of what happened at this point but for the next 3 hours or so, i stopped responding to people. its like i went into extreme introversion mode.

im pretty sure this wasn't drug induced but i was looking down and frothed saliva was just coming out of my mouth
so yeah. does anyone know what might've happened? is this normal at all?

It's not normal for LSD. It may be normal for "research chemicals". Nowadays it's not uncommon for something sold as LSD to be laced with or to only-contain RCs that feel similar. But you would have more telling physical effects in this case.

But I think a more likely explanation was that the carnival ride triggered something negative/traumatic in your subconscious without you knowing it. Or it could just be that you were so 'blown away' by the complexity of your trip that it was literally 'jaw-dropping'. I've seen people's jaw hang open and salivation on high-dose trips just because of the power of the visuals/experience itself.

Yeah that certainly doesn't promise to shift an "abnormal trip" into bad trip territory.

LOL.

Are shrooms trips likely to have "flashbacks"?

It's not uncommon that when people smoke weed days to weeks after their shroom trip, the weed will bring back subtle remnants of your trip like increased light sensitivity, vivid colors, etc., mainly minor stuff.

However, this is nothing like an LSD flashback, which can be identical to visuals that happened during the trip itself, often without weed (while sober). LSD is suspected to linger around in cerebro-spinal fluid (days to months depending on dose/frequency), and can be 'released' randomly, causing flashbacks.

Psilocybin doesn't do this. It leaves the body completely within a few days. I think the reason for the subtle remnants is that even after the psilocybin is flushed out, your brain chemistry takes time to finish 'normalizing' since the trip, and the weed amplified this effect. However, the changes it does on brain chemistry aren't necessarily negative, and certainly are not permanent.

 

[themirror]

I honestly think by "everything else" he meant narcotics and drugs that produce dependence. He seems intelligent enough to understand that weed and psychedelics fall into the same general category in terms of effects, lack of toxicity, and lack of physical dependence.

If he meant that, he should have said it. I don't think it's justified to use our biases about his intelligence to reason about the unsaid.

LSD is suspected to linger around in cerebro-spinal fluid (days to months depending on dose/frequency), and can be 'released' randomly, causing flashbacks.

This has been debunked. I don't feel like fetching sources, but it's just not true.

 

[Sensi Star]

If he meant that, he should have said it. I don't think it's justified to use our biases about his intelligence to reason about the unsaid.

You're taking it out of context. At the beginning he highlighted famous people who died from drugs. This rules out psychs automatically. Then he goes on to talk about the pleasure/pain cycle (addiction/tolerance/withdrawal). Again, doesn't apply since psychs are anti-addictive for most people.

This has been debunked. I don't feel like fetching sources, but it's just not true.

What did they attribute flashbacks to? Is it just long-term chemical changes?

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

In my experience, some of these sensations come with either smoking a lot not out of a bong or bubbler or with strains low in CBD. It's my understanding that the water filters out a compound known in high doses to induce catatonia.

I remember when a few of us packed 3 straight bowls in a steamroller and were knocked on our asses. I noticed a discernable disruption in my motor reflexes. Movement was delayed and robotic, and my emotive state was oscillating rapidly. Additionally, peripheral vision was reduced, and I was generally uncomfortable. I nearly panicked, but within half an hour most of these reactions disappeared.

Of my three most recent times (the three most intense), we've used a bong, apple pipe, and bubbler, respectively. And two of the times were with the same strain while the other time (the apple pipe time) was a completely different one. (The most recent time, and by far most severe, I had only taken one hit, too).

 

[Sorlaize]

no, but I need to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6xWY1u0Ess

 

[Moocow]

This has been debunked. I don't feel like fetching sources, but it's just not true.

@themirror could you, please?

 

[themirror]

google: lsd spinal fluid

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...llegal_drugs#Retention_of_LSD_in_spinal_fluid
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_myth1.shtml

There is no evidence supporting the claim. While absence of evidence does not imply evidence of absence, there's no reason to go on perpetuating the myth as true. We can't disprove the claim that the universe was created by a council of unicorns, but there's no good reason to believe it.

 

[kantor1003]

If it's a good one, then it would feel like I was being a cheat to myself.

I don't think you would consider it cheating at all. Contrary to Snafu's McKenna reference I hold that an lsd experience is anything but a "free lunch". 12 hours doing nothing but de/reconstructing, examining, questioning and exploring my own consciousness, or whatever terminology you want to use for whatever it is that has thinking as one of it's, if not only, affirmable attribute, has been one of the most exhausting, laborious things I've ever been through.

 

[DeadonDreaming]

I'm still interested in the guy who was frothing at the mouth. We really need to figure whats up with that.

 

[Sensi Star]

Terence Mckenna's "summary" of many DMT trips. The 2nd half gets really good. Based on his sentence structure, attention to detail, and personality (from other recordings also), I think he is INTP.

However, he is quite a showman/entertainer as you will hear (funny at times).

[FLV]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VavdCpewQbA[/FLV]


Haven't had the experience yet, but based on reading a ton of trip-reports, it seems that the entities creating visions by 'singing', and saying things like "welcome, glad to see you (again)", " "pay attention to what we are doing" are common themes.

I'd be more interested in Ayahuasca (oral DMT: slow-build, longer, more understandable) as opposed to the rapid and incoherent craziness of vaporized.

 

[LarsMac]

I dabbled with acid and shrooms. But I want to post about this one bad trip I had to see if anyone knows what the hell happened/is it normal. it might not be a bad trip in the common sense of the term (I think people use bad trip to describe trips that cause people to freak out) but i think it was an abnormal trip.

So for that trip, me and my friend each took 2 hits each if I remember correctly. It was LSD in sugar cubes. We dosed and then headed to a music festival with some other people. On the train ride there' we began to experience the trip. We saw colorful patterns and things were "breathing" (pulsating and warping ever so slightly). it was beautiful. When we got there, we went into the crowd and and enjoyed the music. i felt thirsty so i went to go buy a water. pushed my way through the crowd and payed $5 for a bottle of water without really even think about it.

but then shit started getting weird. me and my friends went on carnival ride and i don't remember much of what happened at this point but for the next 3 hours or so, i stopped responding to people. its like i went into extreme introversion mode. i would follow my friends around and go on rides with them but i didn't say a thing. and i don't even remember being aware of doing this, i was just following them. and then i remember frothing saliva at the mouth...im pretty sure this wasn't drug induced but i was looking down and frothed saliva was just coming out of my mouth...like i lost jaw control. my friend started freaking out and was about to call 911. he had me sit down and called someone there who was training to be an emt to make sure i was okay. i slowly came back to reality and everything was normal in terms of perception (normal-trippy). i felt weird, of course, not knowing what the fuck happened for the last 3 hours.

so yeah. does anyone know what might've happened? is this normal at all?

Sensory overload on the rides would be my first thought.

I went to the Atlanta Fairgrounds with some friends while tripping. It was cool until we talked ourselves into riding the roller coaster (The one Burt Reynolds Crashed in one of his Bandit flicks) About half way through the ride, I just lost it.
They had to pry me out of the seat at the end of the ride, and called the cops.
I woke up the next day in psych ward. It took a lot of talking to get myself out of there.

I quit tripping in public after that.

Those were the days, though.

 

[Sensi Star]

Sensory overload on the rides would be my first thought.

Right, that's probably what it was. People often get excited by associating the idea of tripping with the idea of another extreme experience, but this often results in negatives in my experience.

The psych experience by itself is already extreme, there's no need to add to it's extremeness. When I'm tripping, even if I put on music that's a little too stimulating I get uncomfortable.

There's also the element of being in public, and some of the people around may be putting out 'negative energy' (this sounds hippy-dippy but there's definitely some truth to this), which you are VERY receptive too in that state.

The best place for psychedelics is in a tranquil forest. You have a lot of color and things to look at, hear, etc, and the 'energy' felt from the cute animals, trees/plants, stream is generally positive and non-threatening.

 

[DeadonDreaming]

I definitely get negative energy from people. I find its best to trip with people you are "in-tune" with. I've also found that you may find you aren't exactly in tune with people you thought you were. I've discovered that a significant-other gave off bad vibes while tripping; that relationship didn't last long. I've also discovered that my best friends give off warm, inviting vibes that make me extremely happy to be around.

Alexander Shulgin doesn't recommend tripping in public, and if one considers him the Plato of psychedelics, then I think his advice should be listened to.

 

[SLushhYYY]

Some strains of weed make me feel depressive and make me question my stupidity and sanity of wanting to smoke weed. Other strains make me feel awesome, intuitive and happy.

Probabilities of life.

 

[INeedToPee]

Sensory overload on the rides would be my first thought.

I went to the Atlanta Fairgrounds with some friends while tripping. It was cool until we talked ourselves into riding the roller coaster (The one Burt Reynolds Crashed in one of his Bandit flicks) About half way through the ride, I just lost it.
They had to pry me out of the seat at the end of the ride, and called the cops.
I woke up the next day in psych ward. It took a lot of talking to get myself out of there.

I quit tripping in public after that.

Those were the days, though.

i do think that was it. i think i was just in a state of dissociation (i didn't know the word for it before).

i did take [what i believe was] acid again and i was quieter than normal (but not completely dissociated this time). it was less intense (until i smoked weed at the end). does anyone else get quieter on acid?



i think im going to stop tripping in public too. i smoked salvia for the second time yesterday on the street. not that anything major happened, but i felt overstimulated and i think it took away a lot from the tripping experience for me.

oddly, i came to the same conclusions that i did on the acid+weed when i smoked salvia. that somehow everything in this world was connected to alternate realities. i don't know how to put that into words, its kinda hard for me to explain my trips to people

 

[joal0503]

^ Exactly. Now deceased, Terence Mckenna (philosopher, speaker, semi-entertainer) was/is the figurehead for psychedelic culture (not just for extreme hippies who 'dropped out' of society, but for intellectuals and professionals who were drawn to psychs).

I completely agree when Mckenna said that most people use psychedelics the wrong way: they use them often and in low-doses. The correct (most-beneficial) way to use them is rarely, in high-doses. This means you take an utterly ego-shattering dose such as 5 grams of shrooms , only once every year or two. This way, you get the full experience, and afterward you allow plenty of time to integrate that experience into your personal and professional life.

I dont think Terence ever really advocated any specific usage...he obviously had his own experience to draw from, but I remember him saying time and time again..his little spiel on "psychedelic sophistication"...finding what works best for you, and then really putting the pedal to the medal...but I WILL agree that he most definitely saw a lot of abuse and misuse, as a result of the lack of proper education and language to describe the current status of psychedelics and their power. Personally, yes small infrequent, judicious use is key...most of the experiences are profound enough to last a lifetime really...its all about how frequent you want to explore, how comfortable you are with teh substance, and the precautions you take to ensure your own safety isnt ever compromised.

They don't change values in an automatic/simplistic fashion. However, they most certainly tend to force a (re)examination of one's values, which can lead to changing them if they are perceived as needing change. For example, when the selfish ego is at bay the conscientious mind is dominant: I'd bet that if you gave psychedelics to an abusive husband he would most likely at the very least feel guilty about abusing his wife, and perform some extent of moral analysis thereof during the trip.

I remember Terence...when discussing alcohol and LSD being a potential cure...its not like these substances act as literal 'cures' for 'x' disease...as much as it is a cure for stupidity. And hes right , lol. It gets you to realize, 'mebbe i shouldnt be engaging in this destructive behavior?'...you slow down and can FEEL what you are actually doing.

However I understand (if I read you correctly) that the individual's specific circumstances, i.e. intellect, ability to understand the dynamics of the psych experience, ultimately determine whether those value "changes" will be integrated after the trip ends, or whether they will be 'written off' as artifacts of a 'bad drug experience'.

Yep, its why so many inexperienced and uneducated folk, never really come to terms with what exactly was going on....The culture of shamanism, changes this.

Well-said, assuming he was dismissive. Though he definitely became less 'hippy' and more 'bitter' with age, I don't recall remembering bits that articulate this alleged relative dismissiveness (syn?). Do you know which bits show good examples of this? Now I'm curious.

Lol, couldnt you always consider Carlin to have ALWAYS been bitter when it came to societal woes?

i think im going to stop tripping in public too. i smoked salvia for the second time yesterday on the street. not that anything major happened, but i felt overstimulated and i think it took away a lot from the tripping experience for me.

See, this is important...SETTING is as important as any other facet of preparation you engage in. Have you ever tried periods of mediation, exploring psychedelics in complete darkness? The experiences are far more introspective than they are when in public settings...which is the true power ive learned to appreciate with these sorts of things. Sure, it MIGHT be fun to go get loaded up and go see some pretty colors and lights (as I recall with my earliest adventures) but its not quite teh same experience.

oddly, i came to the same conclusions that i did on the acid+weed when i smoked salvia. that somehow everything in this world was connected to alternate realities. i don't know how to put that into words, its kinda hard for me to explain my trips to people

Dimensional planes? Reaching through and tapping into an unconscious collective overmind of some sort?

 

[snafupants]

I dont think Terence ever really advocated any specific usage...he obviously had his own experience to draw from, but I remember him saying time and time again..his little spiel on "psychedelic sophistication"...finding what works best for you, and then really putting the pedal to the medal...but I WILL agree that he most definitely saw a lot of abuse and misuse, as a result of the lack of proper education and language to describe the current status of psychedelics and their power. Personally, yes small infrequent, judicious use is key...most of the experiences are profound enough to last a lifetime really...its all about how frequent you want to explore, how comfortable you are with teh substance, and the precautions you take to ensure your own safety isnt ever compromised.

Have you read anything by McKenna? Have you listened to any clips? He definitely advocated a particular way to take psilocybin, including dosage, setting and intent. But yeah, maybe pretending like he didn't would prove more fun.

 

[joal0503]

Have you read anything by McKenna? Have you listened to any clips? He definitely advocated a particular way to take psilocybin, including dosage, setting and intent. But yeah, maybe pretending like he didn't would prove more fun.

I have extensively...and yes Ive also acknowledged that I do remember hearing him advocate .. i think the line was like, "take 5 grams of psilocybin in complete darkness..." but that was again, simply psilocybin.

But as I mentioned, later on I vividly remember the whole "psychedlic sophistication" line he would throw out as well. Im just repeating what Ive typed earlier now...

my interpretation is that yes, those looking for the ultimate holy shit experience ... as a prepared and familiar person with psychedelics...go ahead...but thats far from advocating high doses/low frequency for all (what i was responding to)

of the types of drugs he explored with being applicable to all people, which is what i am getting at. Each person should do what works best for them, THATS what Terence would advocate.

Mckenna said that most people use psychedelics the wrong way: they use them often and in low-doses. The correct (most-beneficial) way to use them is rarely, in high-doses.

this is what i responded to...

does that clear up the confusion?

 

[snafupants]

I have extensively...and yes Ive also acknowledged that I do remember hearing him advocate .. i think the line was like, "take 5 grams of psilocybin in complete darkness..." but that was again, simply psilocybin.

But as I mentioned, later on I vividly remember the whole "psychedlic sophistication" line he would throw out as well. Im just repeating what Ive typed earlier now...

my interpretation is that yes, those looking for the ultimate holy shit experience ... as a prepared and familiar person with psychedelics...go ahead...but thats far from advocating high doses/low frequency for all (what i was responding to)

of the types of drugs he explored with being applicable to all people, which is what i am getting at. Each person should do what works best for them, THATS what Terence would advocate.

this is what i responded to...

does that clear up the confusion?

There wasn't any confusion on my end. I still think you misrepresented McKenna.

 

[INeedToPee]

See, this is important...SETTING is as important as any other facet of preparation you engage in. Have you ever tried periods of mediation, exploring psychedelics in complete darkness? The experiences are far more introspective than they are when in public settings...which is the true power ive learned to appreciate with these sorts of things. Sure, it MIGHT be fun to go get loaded up and go see some pretty colors and lights (as I recall with my earliest adventures) but its not quite teh same experience.

Dimensional planes? Reaching through and tapping into an unconscious collective overmind of some sort?.

i have never tried tripping by myself (except the salvia, but i was planning on trying it again properly with some friends). the thing is, the "pretty colors and lights" is what i was looking for. that attitude seems to be negatively regarded by trippers online. but i am starting to understand why as i delve deeper into psychs. i still do want to see pretty visuals though

yes, it was a dimensional planes kind of thing. i have hazy memory and my mind felt kind of bogged down with all the intensity but ill try to hone my thoughts remember the next time i trip.



is there anything bad about taking psychedelics too often (after considering the tolerance spike i mean)? is the mind too fragile for this? i tried salvia twice yesterday but i didn't reach the desired level and i want to try it again with my friends next week, but i dont know if its too soon

 

[joal0503]

whoops edit

 

[joal0503]

[/B]There wasn't any confusion on my end. I still think you misrepresented McKenna.

I apologize if I have. I dont want to pretend like I know what a mind like Terence was at 100% of the time. I just offered my own interpretation based off my own experience in his work.

this was the line that was stuck in my head when i was replying...

from 1995,

"Psychedelic sophistication, doesnt mean you took everything there is, in combination with everything else there is, at high doses, with your friends, at rock concerts. It means that you figured out what worked for you, and then really put the pedal to the metal."

i have never tried tripping by myself (except the salvia, but i was planning on trying it again properly with some friends). the thing is, the "pretty colors and lights" is what i was looking for. that attitude seems to be negatively regarded by trippers online. but i am starting to understand why as i delve deeper into psychs. i still do want to see pretty visuals though

yes, it was a dimensional planes kind of thing. i have hazy memory and my mind felt kind of bogged down with all the intensity but ill try to hone my thoughts remember the next time i trip.



is there anything bad about taking psychedelics too often (after considering the tolerance spike i mean)? is the mind too fragile for this? i tried salvia twice yesterday but i didn't reach the desired level and i want to try it again with my friends next week, but i dont know if its too soon

my own philosophy too much of mostly anything could end up being 'bad' for myself. With certain substances, come certain risks. You should do the research on your own. specifically salvia, heres a good place to start..

http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia.shtml


http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia_info3.shtml
Notes of Caution by Daniel J. Siebert

 

[INeedToPee]

my own philosophy too much of mostly anything could end up being 'bad' for myself. With certain substances, come certain risks. You should do the research on your own. specifically salvia, heres a good place to start..

http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia.shtml


http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia_info3.shtml
Notes of Caution by Daniel J. Siebert

well i have done research but i couldn't find any guidelines on how much you should be taking based on physical limitations. for example, it is recommended that mdma is taken at most once every three months because it takes about that long for serotonin stores to fully recover IIRC. i was hoping someone would have the answer cause most people on the internet were saying it's safe. but ill dig a little deeper

and erowid is a great source. its my go-to source whenever i want to know more about a drug

 

[Tinted Chaos]

It has been many years since I last tripped and at the time I did experiment with many drugs, including ecstasy, ketamine, cocaine, weed and some pharmaceuticals.

But the one that stands out most clearly in my mind is Shrooms. I thought they were just fantastic and I might even do them again in the future.

My first trip on them was mostly terrible. I was with a crowd of people that really did send out "bad vibes" and I even puked and saw a face of a bully staring back up from the toilet at me and jeering. I shudder just thinking about that.

My subsequent trips were a lot better though. I was mostly with friends that I really enjoyed being around. Saw lots of fractal-like shapes. (Though no full blown apparitions). And did a lot of walking around in nature. I got to know myself better and learned to “go with the flow”. I saw my place in the universe, talked with trees, and I still have a hard time convincing myself that time is a real thing.

I took fairly high doses averaging about 6 grams. And I tripped (on mushrooms) about a total of five times (this was ten years ago).

The experiences I had on shrooms I would repeat again in a heart beat. It made me the person I am today. They were powerful, spiritual and transformative.

 

[joal0503]

well i have done research but i couldn't find any guidelines on how much you should be taking based on physical limitations. for example, it is recommended that mdma is taken at most once every three months because it takes about that long for serotonin stores to fully recover IIRC. i was hoping someone would have the answer cause most people on the internet were saying it's safe. but ill dig a little deeper

and erowid is a great source. its my go-to source whenever i want to know more about a drug

ahhh MDMA, extra precaution should be taken when it comes to finding a solid source of ACTUAL MDMA...Ecstasy =/= MDMA... it certainly has the potential to possess MDMA, but when it comes to finding it on the street, you have to keep in mind it could be filled/cut with anything...so when I say, in the past my ecstasy has differed from my MDMA texperience I mean it...

MDMA, is the context Ill cover here...

YES you want to be sure you are dosing yourself properly when it comes with to MDMA. Its NOT really akin to the sort of universal teacher reputations that the other hallucinogens get, and I really cant say that I find the experiences to be similar other than the sort of physical high...the mental high...well its no doubt mdma is a powerful tool when it comes to looking INSIDE the emotional person thats within. Its not going to shatter your ego and throw you into hyperspace, but it will provide you a lot of insight and feeling to provide clarity over your own sort of emotional state. an as opposed to hallucinogens, Id actually recommend being WITH people when ur taking MDMA, not necessarily advocating raving in large, enclosed spaces with tons of half naked people writhing all over eachother (never really my thing) but most definitely makes things a bit more intense when ur with a loved one if you get what im sayin....

Now to actually answer ur question..YES you need to be judicious with ur usage and frequency. The pill poppers and eaters on the bluelight forums arent exactly what Id consider to be solid advice...look at the actual science...Pure MDMA in small doses, chances are youll be alright in a therapeutic setting with professsionals...but when it comes to street dosing lookin for the recreational dose...id definitely hold off extended usage. I would personally say when it comes to MDMA,purity, dosage, and your body's own chemistry/recovery should be taken into consideration for judging out how long yo uwait in between the experience. if you are not careful, it most certainly has the ability to destroy your body's natural balance of neurotransmitters that regulate your mood.


http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_faq.shtml

 

[INeedToPee]

ahhh MDMA, extra precaution should be taken when it comes to finding a solid source of ACTUAL MDMA...Ecstasy =/= MDMA... it certainly has the potential to possess MDMA, but when it comes to finding it on the street, you have to keep in mind it could be filled/cut with anything...so when I say, in the past my ecstasy has differed from my MDMA texperience I mean it...

MDMA, is the context Ill cover here...

YES you want to be sure you are dosing yourself properly when it comes with to MDMA. Its NOT really akin to the sort of universal teacher reputations that the other hallucinogens get, and I really cant say that I find the experiences to be similar other than the sort of physical high...the mental high...well its no doubt mdma is a powerful tool when it comes to looking INSIDE the emotional person thats within. Its not going to shatter your ego and throw you into hyperspace, but it will provide you a lot of insight and feeling to provide clarity over your own sort of emotional state. an as opposed to hallucinogens, Id actually recommend being WITH people when ur taking MDMA, not necessarily advocating raving in large, enclosed spaces with tons of half naked people writhing all over eachother (never really my thing) but most definitely makes things a bit more intense when ur with a loved one if you get what im sayin....

Now to actually answer ur question..YES you need to be judicious with ur usage and frequency. The pill poppers and eaters on the bluelight forums arent exactly what Id consider to be solid advice...look at the actual science...Pure MDMA in small doses, chances are youll be alright in a therapeutic setting with professsionals...but when it comes to street dosing lookin for the recreational dose...id definitely hold off extended usage. I would personally say when it comes to MDMA,purity, dosage, and your body's own chemistry/recovery should be taken into consideration for judging out how long yo uwait in between the experience. if you are not careful, it most certainly has the ability to destroy your body's natural balance of neurotransmitters that regulate your mood.


http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_faq.shtml

i mentioned mdma neurotoxicity as an example of what i meant by "physical limitations". i meant to say that i couldn't find anything about salvia's neurotoxicity, sorry if i confused you. but i was planning on taking mdma soon, and i had no clue that it was an insightful drug. interesting...

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

I took salvia last night.

It was a lot like being really high but in a weird way. I was expecting something very quick and very intense but it seemed more drawn out and a little mellower.

I'm not against trying it again.

 

[INeedToPee]

I took salvia last night.

It was a lot like being really high but in a weird way. I was expecting something very quick and very intense but it seemed more drawn out and a little mellower.

I'm not against trying it again.

im fairly certain that you were smoking it wrong. the first time i did salvia, i smoked it like i would smoke weed. the result? i felt a heaviness and delayed time perception, but not much more. but when i tried it again, i really started to understand why it is regarded as an intense drug. and even that second time i tried it, i don't think i was smoking it optimally. according to what i've read online, the best way to smoke it through a bong, using a torch lighter and keeping it lit while inhaling. hold that hit for as long as you can (30 seconds is the usual recommendation). and try to smoke your whole dosage within 2 minutes or so. of course, these are merely guidelines but if you read about the way salvia works, you'll understand why there's all these measures are taken.

read about people's trips online. maybe you'll feel like you were doing it wrong like i did when i read them

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

im fairly certain that you were smoking it wrong. the first time i did salvia, i smoked it like i would smoke weed. the result? i felt a heaviness and delayed time perception, but not much more. but when i tried it again, i really started to understand why it is regarded as an intense drug. and even that second time i tried it, i don't think i was smoking it optimally. according to what i've read online, the best way to smoke it through a bong, using a torch lighter and keeping it lit while inhaling. hold that hit for as long as you can (30 seconds is the usual recommendation). and try to smoke your whole dosage within 2 minutes or so. of course, these are merely guidelines but if you read about the way salvia works, you'll understand why there's all these measures are taken.

read about people's trips online. maybe you'll feel like you were doing it wrong like i did when i read them

Yeah, that makes sense. I think we have a bit left so I can see about doing it better a second time around.

Does it have to be a bong or does a bubbler serve the same purpose?

 

[Affinity]

Yeah, that makes sense. I think we have a bit left so I can see about doing it better a second time around.

Does it have to be a bong or does a bubbler serve the same purpose?

It also depends on the potency of the salvia too. For full effect you will want to rip it from a bong (with ice). You'll also want to load the bowl completely and roast as much of the surface as you can.

Just to give you an idea of my first salvia trip, I took a single rip of the "80x" stuff from a bong, held it in for a bit, and blew it out. Before I cleared my lungs completely, the room started to shrink, and I lost all perception of reality for the next 3 minutes which happened to be the longest 3 minutes of my life, but I wouldn't know that wherever I was. This seems like what you are going for so be sure to have a spotter. They'll need to be there to grab the bong from you as well as keep you from standing up and doing something retarded.

 

[INeedToPee]

Yeah, that makes sense. I think we have a bit left so I can see about doing it better a second time around.

Does it have to be a bong or does a bubbler serve the same purpose?

the bong w/ ice suggestion from Affinity would be ideal because it makes the really hot smoke (its supposed to be really hot for optimal vaporization of the active ingredient) a lot more easy to inhale and hold in. but im sure a bubbler would be fine if thats all you have to work with. if you could maybe shave some ice and put it in there, or have ice cold water in there, it would probably help a lot. the idea of using the ice and water is just to cool the smoke to make it more bearable.

 

[Panopticon]

Did LSD and shrooms last night late in the evening with my cousin(intj) and a buddy(inxp). Very fun combo. Highly recommend combining these together just once. Obviously you do moderate doses for both. Take the LSD an hour or so before the shrooms and you should have a massive peak on both at the same time. It's very fun. I hate shrooms during their onset. I know I got a good dose when I get sleepy and regret the decision 40 mins after eating them. Suddenly Im tired, bored, and dont feel like tripping anymore. From this point on the trip starts to kick your ass, and you feel like a new person at the end(for the better hopefully)

Spent most of the morning(still tripping) at the kitchen table talking to my grandmother(mostly listening) Other family members came by and saw me and I was there just talking to them as if I was completely normal. No one suspected shit and it was a super pleasant day for me. I had a happy day for the first time in a while. I think my positive spirits made their interactions with me more enjoyable(or so I percieved)

Tripping alone- INTP heaven.

Tripping with others- Very fun. Constant giggles.

Tripping with drunks or sobers who know ur tripping and ask you dumbass annoying questions- Not a desirable situation to be in.

Tripping around people who have not a single fucking clue- Can be perhaps the funnest of all. There's no expectations, weird looks or stupid questions. They seem interesting, and in turn they are more enthusiastic because they sense interest and curiousity from you.

LSD to me, is my all time favorite drug, but in my opinion the trips on shrooms and dmt are usually more deep, personal, insightful, and profound. I feel like one heroic dose on psilocybin resonates in my memory much more deep than the multiple times I've taken a big dose of acid. I have alot of respect for the fungus....they really are some of earths most wonderful offerings.

I feel like I can write a long and deeply personal explanation of what my DMT and psilocybin trips have been like, but by the time the trip passes I have no urges to talk or write about the experiences. I feel like I can spill my heart and soul out on a piece of paper or text when I'm deep in the middle of the peak of a trip, but at this point I am too fucked up to even locate a pen and paper, much less write a word down. Typing is an even tougher battle, and by the time I am clear enough to interpret the trip in words I find myself lost for words or ideas.

 

[Affinity]

the idea of using the ice and water is just to cool the smoke to make it more bearable.

Don't forget that cold air is also more dense.

 

[INeedToPee]

Don't forget that cold air is also more dense.

hmm, never thought of that...no wonder my bong chamber gets so cloudy when i have ice.

 

[Sensi Star]

the bong w/ ice suggestion from Affinity would be ideal because it makes the really hot smoke (its supposed to be really hot for optimal vaporization of the active ingredient) a lot more easy to inhale and hold in. but im sure a bubbler would be fine if thats all you have to work with. if you could maybe shave some ice and put it in there, or have ice cold water in there, it would probably help a lot. the idea of using the ice and water is just to cool the smoke to make it more bearable.

Most of the damage done to the lungs from cannabis smoke is from the HEAT of the smoke rather than the chemical composition.

Therefore, ice in a bong is not only more pleasant to inhale, but will prevent burns in your lungs. I also think the colder the water, the more tar is removed from the smoke as well. As an extra measure, I use a diffuser, which divides up the smoke into smaller 'bubbles', thus increasing the surface area of the gas for better cooling and filtration.

 

[EmergingAlbert]

Hey guys...I know I'm butting in pretty late in the conversation, but after reading this thread over the course of three days at work, I'm finally ready to ask some questions, as I have no experience with psychadelics. The only drugs I have experience with are caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, and marijuana. I am definitely interested in trying some of the hallucinogens, two things hold me back: fear and lack of access.

As for the fear part, there are a couple of very rational reasons. First, I am looking for a job, and I'm not sure which ones stay in your system long enough to be detected as well as which ones are actually tested for by employers.

The more important concern is that I have epilepsy and am on two different anticonvulsants. Does anyone know if the psychadelics/hallucinogens can trigger seizures? If not, would they interfere with the anticonvulsant medications that I'm on? My seizures can be quite terrifying, and I certainly don't want a trip to resemble a seizure in any way, or worse, actually cause one.

The second thing that prevents me from trying any of these (or any illegal drugs, for that matter) is lack of access. Legal drugs like alcohol, caffiene, and nicotine are easy to get access, so I just buy them at the gas station or whatever. The illegal ones, including weed, are almost impossible to find, esepcially being an extremely introverted INTP. I know that in order to find a drug dealer, you just have to "know people." I only have one friend who does any illegal drugs (weed, to be more specific, and he doesn't even smoke it that much). I've asked him a couple of times to let me know if he has any weed, but he hardly ever does, and I don't think his dealer sells anything but weed. It's hard enough for me to find weed. I wouldn't even know where to begin to find psychadelics. But maybe that's best if it would be dangerous for my epilepsy...

Also, another thing I was curious about is the difference between "psychadelics" and "hallucinogens." Are those two different words for the same thing?