Game of Thrones

[onesteptwostep]

Who's watching? Episode 4 was pretty good. I really want to see the White Walkers come out and start owning..

 

[Jennywocky]

I have not been as much of a fan through seasons 5&6, I feel like the more they go "off book" the sloppier and more generalized the writing becomes. (I'm not even an ASOIAF reader, you can just tell from the dialogue style and plot jumps how things have changed.)

However, I agree that s07e04 is easily the best episode of Season 7 and was fairly enjoyable, especially the ending sequence despite the tactical naivety. it pretty much panned out as I expected, in terms of outcome.... dragons are so badass. The effects were really nice. I was just shaking my head the whole time... the poor bastards, they did not stand a chance.

 

[JR_IsP]

I'm not really into GoT but I see episodes when I have really nothing to do, I was expecting the 7th season to see how the Lannisters would be like damn and looking for a Snow-Daenerys alliance.

Idk if that's already happened (I only saw the first of the seventh), but if catch the episodes on hbo I may watch them.

Valar morgulis

 

[onesteptwostep]

Ah, spoilers, but that hasn't happened yet. Dany's all like BEND THE KNEE 24/7

 

[Hadoblado]

Haven't started watching yet. I think I've enjoyed all the conspiracy talk more than the actual show for the last few seasons.

 

[crippli]

I'm with Jenny on this one. There is something odd going on with the series. RR. Martin, What you're doing?. I loved these books when they came out. The twist and turns. Now. Unless every main character dies an horrible death in the next few episodes. I'm afraid this series cannot be saved. This series needs to end as shitty as it begun. As it is it's beginning to feel like a slow moving train, like most other stuff that is aired on tv.

I need surprises, If I'm going to be bothered downloading more episodes.

 

[Jennywocky]

I'm with Jenny on this one. There is something odd going on with the series. RR. Martin, What you're doing?. I loved these books when they came out. The twist and turns. Now. Unless every main character dies an horrible death in the next few episodes. I'm afraid this series cannot be saved. This series needs to end as shitty as it begun. As it is it's beginning to feel like a slow moving train, like most other stuff that is aired on tv.

I need surprises, If I'm going to be bothered downloading more episodes.

Well, like I said, the problem is not Martin currently. They have been off-book now for a number of episodes, the show runners are writing the episodes and it is no longer an adaptation.

The expectation is that the story will get to the same place as Martin's books (with the most major plot points preserved), but they're no longer using Martin's dialogue or detailed level of plotting because Martin has not yet published the books.

I don't think Martin would have ever written the last bit of what happened Sunday night, which was one of those things that the "Better Call Saul" crew called a jerkaround / fake peril just meant to tease the audience. I think if Martin actually wrote that scene, you-know-who would be dead -- because much of the time that a horrible thing happened to a character, it was because they actually did do something stupid/foolhardy due to some characteristic weakness of theirs (with Ned, it was his idealism; Oberyn, his obsession with exposing the Lannisters for the murder of his sister and kids; and all the others? Yeah, same thing.)

(You even have another character calling this character a "fucking idiot" watching them do this characteristic but stupid thing.)

I'm actually interested in reading Martin's take on all this once he publishes because I want to see how much more tightly things would have fit together and where the plot could have gone

But yeah, a lot of it now feels predictable, all the moves obvious.

 

[JimJambones]

I skipped over comments because I am reading the books first and I'm trying to avoid serious spoilers. I am currently reading Storm of Swords. I will only then watch the series. I try to read the books first to let my imagination have free rein. It's more fun that way.

 

[Jennywocky]

I skipped over comments because I am reading the books first and I'm trying to avoid serious spoilers. I am currently reading Storm of Swords. I will only then watch the series. I try to read the books first to let my imagination have free rein. It's more fun that way.

Yeah, it's hard to discuss the show without spoilers at this point.

Good luck with the books -- while the various plot lines are staggered, basically they carry through maybe parts of Season 5 and a few into a bit of Season 6, depending on the plotline being examined. I'm not sure what the yet-unreleased book will entail.

I've only read a little bit of the books, just enough to see he thinks through a lot of the logistics and details and his narrative is more complex (which they understandably trimmed down / condensed for the show). So there are things that book can offer, including more realistic detail, but there's a few emotionally powerful sequences that provide a real whammy on the screen when you do not know what is coming (esp in Season 4). I'm glad I didn't read the books first for those bits, they were just crazy mind-blowing.

 

[ummidk]

Its not what it was for the first few seasons but still the best show on TV.

 

[Happy]

Worst. Series. Ever.






Come at me, bro! I'll fight you all!

 

[Reluctantly]

Just caught up. Got internet.

I'm kind of hoping Daenerys dies. She's so uppity. She's gone from WHERE ARE MY DRAGONS to I'M THE QUEEN, KNEEL TO ME. Who cares.

 

[onesteptwostep]

Pretty good episode, a lot of plotlines were forwarded. Cersei *SPOILERS*

Spoiler

getting pregnant again was kinda funny, but yeah other than that I think the plots are coming together nicely. Littlefinger up to sneaky things again, Jon and the crew up at Eastwatch, all good.

I can't believe there are only going to be 2 more episodes this season... feels like it ended way too fast. I'm sort of worried on how they might finish it though, it feels like they'd need a bit more episodes to tie everything together.

 

[Jennywocky]

I thought episode 5 was easily the worst episode of the season and one of the worst of the series.

Shit logic, shit characterization, let's just do plot without explaining why the plot even make sense.

Spoiler

Like, oh, yeah, let's throw everyone the viewers love on a secret mission that... really has no purpose except to put everyone on a secret mission. Because why the hell would Cersei even give a shit whether or not they bring back a walker? It's like fan-fic writers are writing one-offs for the show.

The show is also becoming more soap opera-like each week.

Spoiler

How sweet, the Lannisters are starting a new family. Maybe the baby will be blonde.

There were a few lines and a few bits of interest:

Spoiler

Baelish is playing Arya. It is about time our resident schemer suckered someone, he's been doing nothing for episodes on end. Finally, he's hatching a new plot!

Sansa tells Arya to speak her mind; Arya calls Sansa out. Good bit.

Jon touches a dragon's face... but then Dany never flips out and tries to determine why he was able to do this.

A lot of the rest was treated like a drive-by sideswipe, there's nothing here that is interesting to watch in later viewings. It's all about plot now, and the plot doesn't even have to make sense. And we're getting tidbits of information that they can't find a more normal way to share with us:

Spoiler

Like, Gilly clumsily telling the knowledge viewer audience that Jon's actually not a bastard because his parents were officially, if secretly, married.

Fare thee well

Spoiler

, Dickon. You pass in death as you passed in life: A well-intentioned idiot.

 

[onesteptwostep]

^ I sort of agree with what you're saying, but hey, as long as the plot goes forward you know. I didn't get the part about Jon being able to touch the dragon; was that supposed to mean anything? They did put some time into it.

 

[Reluctantly]

^

Spoiler

Can't remember anymore, but I think he was a son of the mad king and Ned Stark's sister or something. Not Ned's bastard or something. I think that was just a story to protect him.

 

[Jennywocky]

Dragons + Targaryans + Actual Lineage of certain characters

Spoiler

The Targaryans have a bond with dragons -- the dragons recognize them, rather than just eating them. It's why they listen to and protect Dany.

Jon's father is actually Dany's dead brother (and Jon's actually Ned's nephew); it's been heavily telegraphed in the books and now in the show for a season or more, so much it's a given at this point. The show even ham-fisted this LAST night when it dropped a comment pretty much all but stating Jon's not even a bastard, because apparently Rhaegar got an "annulment" on his old marriage (to Elia Martell -- you know, Oberyn's sister, who he kept insisting the Mountain admit he raped and crushed right before the Mountain crushed HIM) and was legitimately married to Lyanna Stark, Jon's actual mom. Gilly starts reading this out loud right before Sam tells her to shut up... doh.

There has also long been suspicion that Tyrion is not a Lannister at all but the son of Tywin's wife Joanna and the Mad King [possibly a rape], due to a lot of the dynamics between Tywin and Tyrion and some things that Tywin said and in what context, along with Tywin's general character on how he would have protected the family name rather than shaming Joanna who he loved. There was a "soft confirm" on this when Tyrion ended up approaching and releasing two of Dany's dragons in the dungeon, and while they got up in his grill, they didn't kill him... although they've killed others who get that close to them.

There is some kind of prophecy about the three heads of the dragons, and there are three dragons, and thus three Targaryans to ride them, and they have been long suspected by readers to be Dany, Jon, and Tyrion. The Tyrion theory is the weakest, but it's still fairly substantial at this stage, whereas the Jon theory is pretty much set in stone by now.

Moving a plot along doesn't mean much at all. Hell, Suicide Squad moved the plot along. It's not much of a standard.

 

[onesteptwostep]

Oh right I completely forgot about Jon lineage.. ah ic.

 

[onesteptwostep]

If anyone's seen the leaked episode...

Spoiler

GoT officially went YOLO. Magic ice dragons, LOL! Oh and, Jon went a little premature with Dany, but I think it's obvious by now that they're going to hook up together. And yeah.. the Night King slaying the dragon was pretty intense. He's like the end level boss... crazy stuff.

 

[Pyropyro]

If anyone's seen the leaked episode...

Spoiler

GoT officially went YOLO. Magic ice dragons, LOL! Oh and, Jon went a little premature with Dany, but I think it's obvious by now that they're going to hook up together. And yeah.. the Night King slaying the dragon was pretty intense. He's like the end level boss... crazy stuff.

Spoiler

He summoned a Blue Eyes Wight Dragon in Attack Position

 

[Hadoblado]

Caught up to ep. 5.

Spoiler

If Dany doesn't go mad I will. It feels like a complete waste of time for her to regress back to harsh targy if she doesn't actually end up there - this ark of her development was already complete in my mind. She'd learned compassion, started to prioritise her people over her pride etc.
There's been a lull in the unpredictability of the series for a while now. It's obvious who Martin's favourites are, so the thrill of the characters being plot naked (unarmored) was gone. With the series coming to an end, I'd like to think he's free to kill off the favourites now they've served their purpose. Dany going mad would be great - we've put up with far too much highhoppity for her not to make good on it imo.

I kinda liked the Jon 'leak' from Gilly. For everyone paying attention it had been obvious for ever, but for those taking it less seriously I'd expect it to sneak right past them.

This season feels beyond rushed. The plots are completing/converging with wild abandon. I was pretty annoyed that Sam cured Jorah with a wave of the hand.

I'm glad LittleFinger finally started doing something. For a while there it felt like all the 'baddies' were punching bags with LittleFinger getting burnt to a crisp every interaction, and Cersei being completely outmatched by Dan.

 

[Minuend]

If anyone's seen the leaked episode...

Spoiler

GoT officially went YOLO. Magic ice dragons, LOL! Oh and, Jon went a little premature with Dany, but I think it's obvious by now that they're going to hook up together. And yeah.. the Night King slaying the dragon was pretty intense. He's like the end level boss... crazy stuff.

Spoiler

I disliked the point where the dragon dies and everyone stops to take a moment's silence for the dead dragon while Jon was one moment earlier fighting off lots of white walkers. I know they feel the need to stress that moment, but it just feels dumb when done that way. There are no time for sentiments and feels when people are dying

The gingerbeard and hound convo was amusing, though

Caught up to ep. 5.

Spoiler

If Dany doesn't go mad I will. It feels like a complete waste of time for her to regress back to harsh targy if she doesn't actually end up there - this ark of her development was already complete in my mind. She'd learned compassion, started to prioritise her people over her pride etc.
There's been a lull in the unpredictability of the series for a while now. It's obvious who Martin's favourites are, so the thrill of the characters being plot naked (unarmored) was gone. With the series coming to an end, I'd like to think he's free to kill off the favourites now they've served their purpose. Dany going mad would be great - we've put up with far too much highhoppity for her not to make good on it imo.

Spoiler

There have been circulating this theory where Dany's daddy went mad due to the three eyed raven traveling back in time and trying to make him burn all the white walkers. Maybe Bran did it. Which made the king mad, because he just heard fragments of the voice which told him to burn it all, which was supposed to refer to the white walkers. But he ended up burning all his enemies. If you remember the tower scene with brad and ned, ned could hear bran shouting "father", but he couldn't see him.

Anyway, I think the author himself said this about Dany's

Spoiler

madness

Spoiler

She' wont turn mad. Personally I can see her become cynical, opinioated, stubborn, but I think mad is off the table.

Spoiler

I kinda liked the Jon 'leak' from Gilly. For everyone paying attention it had been obvious for ever, but for those taking it less seriously I'd expect it to sneak right past them.

Spoiler

I hated that actually. It felt like a cheap shot at the truth not being found out and told jon, when a lot of people are waiting and expecting that to happen

So yeah, I've been watching GoT and I don't even like it that much. Good TV when

 

[onesteptwostep]

Yeah overall that episode had a lot of problems, but who cares

Spoiler

MAGIC ICE BONE DRAGONS

It completley changes the dynamic of the war now, and this could mean that Ceresei might actually ally with Jon and Dany for a while. Season 8 is going to be one of those ally-then-backstab kind of types.

 

[Minuend]

Yeah overall that episode had a lot of problems, but who cares

Spoiler

MAGIC ICE BONE DRAGONS

It completley changes the dynamic of the war now, and this could mean that Ceresei might actually ally with Jon and Dany for a while. Season 8 is going to be one of those ally-then-backstab kind of types.

Spoiler

I think it's more likely cersei would ally with the white walkers, or pretend to ally with danny and then kill her while fighting the WW even though her men would die for it and it risked her entire empire

 

[Jennywocky]

I saw the leaked episode today, that was a doozy and a step up ... although this season is hell logistically. I think they said screw it and decides to shoot whatever scenes they thought would be cool regardless of who could actually be where and when.

Still, if you accept the premise of the episode as sensible (which I'm not sure I do -- why does this A-team quest matter?), then I'm glad they gave the characters room to just breathe and talk and interact with each other.

Of course there is the set piece. Kinda saw that bit coming.

Spoiler

Although again logistics... where the hell did they get four large chains long enough to anchor a warship?? In the middle of the barren wilderness? LOL. But hey "it looked cool." Whatever, I guess. See, though, this is the shit that GRRM would have figured out and why it's taking him so long to write the books -- he would have set it up for those chains to be there for some believable historical reason, lol.

There was a nice bit at Winterfell:

Spoiler

- Sansa sends Brienne away, rather roughly, because Littlefinger showed an interest in keeping her around. Which, okay, Sansa is countering Littlefinger, but there are more than just two options. Because now Brienne is gone and cannot defend Sansa either... which almost leads her into disaster when....
- ...Arya scared the shit out of Sansa and probably half the viewing audience with that little speech of hers about faces and the knife flipping. But it was pretty great.

Anyway, takeaway:

Spoiler

- At least Jon and Daenarys have chemistry.
- I like how she finally saw his mortal wounds as he was lying there. But he's alive, not an undead.
- I think it has given her a sense that, after so many seasons of her own personal narrative ("Take the kingdom back, get what's hers, break the wheel"), she is also realizing that other people have their own stories; it's not just about her. Jon has a story, and everyone else has a story. In fact, Jon is unselfish -- he has died, come back, and risks dying again to fight a war he doesn't want to fight, for a kingdom he doesn't want. It's a marked difference to her desire to rule, and it's making her reassess herself and get some perspective.
- Also, she now has a stake in the game; the Night King killed her baby.
- Jon is playing it right, plus I think he feels terrible about what happened and is grateful she came to save them at great cost to herself.

 

[Jennywocky]

I think Cersei will do whatever works for her in the moment.

She will ally with who she needs to ally with in the moment, and then turn right around and crush them as soon as it makes sense... which could be simply as soon as the Night King is taken out and her allies are badly hurt from that fight.

In fact, if she thinks she has the means to defeat the Night King on her own, she will pretend to ally, let her allies ride into war, and then basically block them / cut off their escape until they die.

She cannot be trusted.

 

[Reluctantly]

White-walkers have the dragonballz with an added bonus of mind-control. They should be nerfed imo.

 

[Jennywocky]

White-walkers have the dragonballz with an added bonus of mind-control. They should be nerfed imo.

No, we just need to up the power of the other side so that when shit goes down, the entire world will be cracked to pieces.

Cuz that's how humanity rolls. screw everyone!

 

[Reluctantly]

Haha. Here's hoping that Dany's dragons will let out a giant explosion of nuclear fire and set the stage for Cataclysm! All the Game of Thrones content we've come to love will be changed anew. Grinding cap raised to season 20 and all!

 

[Rixus]

When you think you're winning, and suddenly he plays the best card in the deck:

Spoiler

[BIMG]//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170822/fd1dfbae8d9130845da0ea6c4a728ffa.jpg[/bIMG]

I like that we're getting good battle scenes, and I actually like having to look closely for the major drops. But they are starting to get exceedingly Hollywood in this series (think - he should have frozen to death, Jaime should have drowned in the massive trench that he fell into in full armour, I'm starting to wonder if there are any fighting age men left in Westeros and the open world RPG fast travel system that everyone is using is kind of ruining this season for me.

Plus, is anyone else wondering if the ending is gonna be that everyone starves to death because they're so busy fighting that no one prepared for winter properly?

 

[Jennywocky]

I like that we're getting good battle scenes, and I actually like having to look closely for the major drops. But they are starting to get exceedingly Hollywood in this series (think - he should have frozen to death, Jaime should have drowned in the massive trench that he fell into in full armour, I'm starting to wonder if there are any fighting age men left in Westeros and the open world RPG fast travel system that everyone is using is kind of ruining this season for me.

Like noted, once they went off-book, all the stuff Martin usually took care of is being ignored completely.

I heard they are spending $10 million an episode this season? I don't know if that's true, but their dragon special effects are pretty great -- I mean, it looks good even in HD. But unfortunately it seems like they are spending less time on plotting and dialogue, and that stuff is relatively free... the cost of a good screenwriter.

Plus, is anyone else wondering if the ending is gonna be that everyone starves to death because they're so busy fighting that no one prepared for winter properly?

Slushies, snowballs, and popscicles for all!

 

[Hadoblado]

Spoiler

Oh... there goes the Tyrion being the third head theory... I guess ice and fire implies a dyad?

So were the scorpions just foreshadowing for the ice spears? I didn't really like those... makes no sense that the ice men are that strong (not sure how the books would have handled it either though). Everything seems like manufactured drama resolved by deus ex machina.

- They shouldn't have been beyond the wall, capturing a zombie won't convince Cersei who has no stake in the outcome, and who already has a zombie bodyguard. #fetchquest
- The zombie they captured didn't collapse when its handler was killed. Why?
- How did they get a zombie back over the wall when it's all magic and shit (come to think of it, how did that other one get summoned in the nightwatch?)
- Benjen Stark didn't help with his horse when they needed to send a message (also he's kind of a zombie right? Mission accomplished?)
- So they split the party in such a way that they would get a messenger back, but the entire rest of the party would be sacrificed. I can't believe they thought they had a snowball's chance in hell of getting a messenger back to the wall, who would send a raven, who would summon Dany, who would set out immediately in time to save the party.
- The zombies can't swim or go underwater? I guess that resolves some issues with why they can't go around the wall, but makes little sense in itself.
- It was silly that Jon relied on it happening, but it actually happening was silly in itself.
- Jon stays unnecessarily to fight an unwinnable fight a little longer. He's just been fighting for hours, but he wants to get additional licks in? The plan should have been to get off the ground, and then win by burning those assholes to the ground.
- The wight army had no answer to dragons, then they have an extreme answer to dragons that makes little sense. Did they even know the dragons were a thing? Why do wights suddenly have super human strength? Why has this not been represented when Jon fought them before?
- Jon survives being under water, which is fine kinda, but then survives the arctic tempratures while soaking wet with no source of heat?
- The wights presumably have some sort of life sense, since their zombies function without necessarily having eyes. Yet don't realise he's under there.
- Benjen, who was apparently here the whole time waiting (?) chooses now to help? The wights let him.
- The zombies now can swim in order to hook chains (where did the chains come from?) to the dragon. They then pull in four different directions to pull it out. The super strong wight doesn't help.

I guess I'm still watching though... I think you're right Jenny, with their budget they could afford to get more consistent writing done, even if they are strapped for time. It's not necessarily that any of this stuff is completely unacceptable. It could have been written in a manner that made it feel consistent. But the writer is leaving it up to the audience to fill try to justify the inconsistencies, and this isn't intentional on their part: it's just bad writing.

 

[Jennywocky]

Spoiler

Oh... there goes the Tyrion being the third head theory... I guess ice and fire implies a dyad?

So were the scorpions just foreshadowing for the ice spears? I didn't really like those... makes no sense that the ice men are that strong (not sure how the books would have handled it either though). Everything seems like manufactured drama resolved by deus ex machina.

- They shouldn't have been beyond the wall, capturing a zombie won't convince Cersei who has no stake in the outcome, and who already has a zombie bodyguard. #fetchquest
- The zombie they captured didn't collapse when its handler was killed. Why?
- How did they get a zombie back over the wall when it's all magic and shit (come to think of it, how did that other one get summoned in the nightwatch?)
- Benjen Stark didn't help with his horse when they needed to send a message (also he's kind of a zombie right? Mission accomplished?)
- So they split the party in such a way that they would get a messenger back, but the entire rest of the party would be sacrificed. I can't believe they thought they had a snowball's chance in hell of getting a messenger back to the wall, who would send a raven, who would summon Dany, who would set out immediately in time to save the party.
- The zombies can't swim or go underwater? I guess that resolves some issues with why they can't go around the wall, but makes little sense in itself.
- It was silly that Jon relied on it happening, but it actually happening was silly in itself.
- Jon stays unnecessarily to fight an unwinnable fight a little longer. He's just been fighting for hours, but he wants to get additional licks in? The plan should have been to get off the ground, and then win by burning those assholes to the ground.
- The wight army had no answer to dragons, then they have an extreme answer to dragons that makes little sense. Did they even know the dragons were a thing? Why do wights suddenly have super human strength? Why has this not been represented when Jon fought them before?
- Jon survives being under water, which is fine kinda, but then survives the arctic tempratures while soaking wet with no source of heat?
- The wights presumably have some sort of life sense, since their zombies function without necessarily having eyes. Yet don't realise he's under there.
- Benjen, who was apparently here the whole time waiting (?) chooses now to help? The wights let him.
- The zombies now can swim in order to hook chains (where did the chains come from?) to the dragon. They then pull in four different directions to pull it out. The super strong wight doesn't help.

I guess I'm still watching though... I think you're right Jenny, with their budget they could afford to get more consistent writing done, even if they are strapped for time. It's not necessarily that any of this stuff is completely unacceptable. It could have been written in a manner that made it feel consistent. But the writer is leaving it up to the audience to fill try to justify the inconsistencies, and this isn't intentional on their part: it's just bad writing.

Spoiler

- They shouldn't have been beyond the wall, capturing a zombie won't convince Cersei who has no stake in the outcome, and who already has a zombie bodyguard. #fetchquest

Yes, it's enough to give any past MMO grinders the shakes.

- The zombie they captured didn't collapse when its handler was killed. Why?

Because apparently it had been raised by a different White Walker. Which is convenient, since all but one were raised by the one Jon killed, and they just needed one, and wow, what fortune! ... who was this guy? Chad, the zombie whose original handler no longer wanted him, so he had to hook up at the tail end of another zombie chain gang?

Some people are trying to say the Night King was setting a trap so he could get a dragon, but that is just hindsight at work at best... and if it's not, unless the Night King is actually some iteration of Bran (another crazy tinfoil theory), well, that's just ridiculous. It's gotta make sense in the writing, and they have offered no allusions to those kinds of abilities before.

- How did they get a zombie back over the wall when it's all magic and shit (come to think of it, how did that other one get summoned in the nightwatch?)
- Benjen Stark didn't help with his horse when they needed to send a message (also he's kind of a zombie right? Mission accomplished?)

No idea.

Benjen is/was kind of half-dead, half-alive. The Children created the original Night King by shoving a shard of Dragonglass directly through his heart, to use him and the undead as a way to drive off the First Men... of course, now it backfired, and the undead might destroy everyone. They killed the Children. Meanwhile, they did something similar (but undetailed) with Benjen, before he turned... so he was in some kind of twilight state.

- Jon stays unnecessarily to fight an unwinnable fight a little longer. He's just been fighting for hours, but he wants to get additional licks in? The plan should have been to get off the ground, and then win by burning those assholes to the ground.

Jon. Always a hacker. He actually was considered the best fighter of the Stark family back in s01e01. At best, maybe he thought the hoard was coming too fast, or he thought maybe he could take out the Night King himself and end everything? Don't ask me. It was all rather convenient to Split the Party... which everyone knows you never never do. Except here. Because it worked. Again.

Why didn't the dragons just fry the Night King on their first pass? They were all visible up there on the hill. That was a major oversight... although we know normal fire does not affect the White Walkers, so maybe the Night King can take a fireblast without sweating it.

- The wight army had no answer to dragons, then they have an extreme answer to dragons that makes little sense. Did they even know the dragons were a thing? Why do wights suddenly have super human strength? Why has this not been represented when Jon fought them before?

The White Walkers have seemed to be stronger/hardier than men, although it was hard to tell when your weapons shatter on their skin unless you have valyrian steel. Of course, this guy is the Night King, so you might as well be questioning whether Sauron has superhuman strength... he's the Big Bad, so pretty much I guess he can be whatever they want.

- Jon survives being under water, which is fine kinda, but then survives the arctic tempratures while soaking wet with no source of heat?

He's Jon Snow dammit! Powered by Lord of Light (TM)!!
I did like how the skins crunches when they tried to peel them off him back on the boat. Which is... why the boat? Confused.

- The wights presumably have some sort of life sense, since their zombies function without necessarily having eyes. Yet don't realise he's under there.

Don't ask me how he killed the ones under the water either, without a weapon. Or swinging a weapon under water. But he's Jon Snow dammit! The Prince that was Promised!

- Benjen, who was apparently here the whole time waiting (?) chooses now to help? The wights let him.

It's a trick! A nasty dirty trick!

- The zombies now can swim in order to hook chains (where did the chains come from?) to the dragon. They then pull in four different directions to pull it out. The super strong wight doesn't help.

He's the Night King, dammit. He sullies his hands for no wraith.

I am still watching too because I want to see how it ties up, but basically for some of its early run, this was a show where I could rewatch episodes and still enjoy them. There's very little in the later seasons I want to rewatch, I've found. The writing w/ its inconsistencies has mostly become too ludicrous for me to enjoy multiple times.

 

[Rixus]

Spoiler

Some people are trying to say the Night King was setting a trap so he could get a dragon, but that is just hindsight at work at best... and if it's not, unless the Night King is actually some iteration of Bran (another crazy tinfoil theory), well, that's just ridiculous. It's gotta make sense in the writing, and they have offered no allusions to those kinds of abilities before.

Spoiler

I'm disagreeing with you on this point - when Bran has viewed the past, the Night King has had the ability to see him clearly and grab him. We also saw the Night King able to see that Bran had warged into a bird and interrupted it. I think it's entirely possible the whole thing was a trap. When Bran was doing said warging, you would notice that the area the army was in was the same lake of the battle, when they could have planted the chains ready. How the hell else was there chains there? I want to believe it was, because it's the only way it makes sense.

We also know that the Hound was given the vision of the mountain, and Melisande has alluded to visions before now also (though she obviously isn't very good at interpreting them), so foresight does have some precedence.

I'm not defending the shoddy direction the writing has taken, though. The was it feels is that they have a set of bullet points from Martin and now they're just using those and forgetting that there should be some bits in the middle getting there. It's hard to tie up the myriad of plots in a few episodes, but abandoning the rules we've established and relying on Holywoodness to tell it instead is killing it. It almost seems like watching someone play and RPG at this point.

And if they do end it with the most predicable ending, I'm not going to be happy. I want to see something unexpected, but at the moment I'm not getting that.

 

[Jennywocky]

I'm disagreeing with you on this point - when Bran has viewed the past, the Night King has had the ability to see him clearly and grab him. We also saw the Night King able to see that Bran had warged into a bird and interrupted it. I think it's entirely possible the whole thing was a trap. When Bran was doing said warging, you would notice that the area the army was in was the same lake of the battle, when they could have planted the chains ready. How the hell else was there chains there? I want to believe it was, because it's the only way it makes sense.

We also know that the Hound was given the vision of the mountain, and Melisande has alluded to visions before now also (though she obviously isn't very good at interpreting them), so foresight does have some precedence.

I'm not defending the shoddy direction the writing has taken, though. The was it feels is that they have a set of bullet points from Martin and now they're just using those and forgetting that there should be some bits in the middle getting there. It's hard to tie up the myriad of plots in a few episodes, but abandoning the rules we've established and relying on Holywoodness to tell it instead is killing it. It almost seems like watching someone play and RPG at this point.

And if they do end it with the most predicable ending, I'm not going to be happy. I want to see something unexpected, but at the moment I'm not getting that.
[/spoiler]

Well, I referred to it as shoddy tinfoil because there really is no real setup for it. Decent writing would be putting more solid allusions into it; the story is not being told in a way that it's really coherent, these things should not feel like they are coming out of left field because then they feel like cheats, not authentic plot points. It would be a justifiable plot move if the writing actually was setting it up more skillfully.

(It doesn't help too that there's just way too much GoT hype and chatter and speculation nowadays. It got old fast. everyone's got ideas, but not a lot of them seem to be justified or make much sense sometimes...)

There's a ton of real examples of decent twists / exposures in cinema and TV. I mean, The Sixth Sense is a great example because the twist is set up throughout the movie as part of its framework, and when you know it, the movie still works on both levels at once, and you feel like "damn, I should have figured that out."

The issue of Jon's parentage has actually been set up decently in the show long before the writing got clumsy -- you can find allusions to it just by the acting and writing in the very first episode. So that one is actually a mystery you can figure out as you go, even before the reveal. (I figured it out myself when I binge watched the series through Season 3... I brought I up and book readers were like, "yup, that's one of the major theories.") Or maybe the Hodor reveal... that was properly set up as a fair reveal. A reveal isn't very great if afterwards everyone's like, "Well... I guess. Maybe."

 

[Hadoblado]

It's similar to what happened with Sherlock, where the show became more about showing the character than having coherent plots that the audience could 'interact' with. Cinema is a medium of communication, and when fans have to argue incessantly in order to make it appear coherent, it is at the very least a failure of communication, if not an actual inconsistency.

So the dude with the strength was the nightking? Thought it was just some wight. Yeah I guess I can give that a passing grade XD. mb.