Friend committed suicide

[Dimensional Transition]

He wasn't a friend irl, but a friend I met online. I hadn't spoken to him in months and I found out just recently, but I felt like we could talk about a lot of things, share a lot of thoughts. I knew he was suicidal, but now I feel really bad and afraid. Just before he died he told everybody everything was going well. What do I do now? I'm really confused and afraid I'll become suicidal as well or something. I know it might sound silly, but it's a real dark feeling. Is there anybody else who experienced something like this?

 

[Moocow]

Well, everyone has the choice and who is anyone else to stop them? If you ask me, actually dying is unnecessary when you can just demolish your ego and renew your spirits.

You don't need to be afraid of your own thoughts. Everyone should think about and confront death occasionally- it's healthy. If anything, you should look at the freedom to take your own life as an indication that you don't have to take shit from yourself while you're alive. If you can die freely, why not live freely?

The only way you're going to lose control is if you decide to. I can't really put it more simply than that.

 

[Jesse]

The only time I felt suicidal I felt it for months and couldn't shake the feeling. I'm not sure what to say, if your feeling this low talk to someone and try not to dwell on the idea to much. Sorry I can't help you more.

 

[snafupants]

Suicide is not something you catch like the flu, nor is it typically an action taken on impulse. His elevated mood - saying that everything was okay - may have been his way of displaying satisfaction with a decision, one he knew would solve his problems. Is there some underlying reason why you should fear suicide in yourself?

 

[MatthewSawyer]

Suicide is not something you catch like the flu, nor is it typically an action taken on impulse.

While I agree that this is true, there have been studies that prove there is an increase in suicide rates and single vehicle accidents directly (within 2 weeks) after a suicide story is made public in the news.

Essentially, someone sees someone else to whom they can relate commit suicide and the individual now sees suicide as a more realistic option because one of their peers just did it.

It may not be rational, but it may be natural.

To DT: my condolences for losing a friend. I have thought of suicide in the past. Everytime I thought about it, I concluded I would rather try and solve my issues without killing myself. It usually had to do with coping with whatever initiated the "emptiness" or the depression.

I hope this helps. If not, seek council.

Good Luck.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Don't be afraid, speak about it if you need to. It's not something to fear as it is merely a choice, one that is not forced upon you.

Life is full of ups and downs and it's best to keep irrational decisions from being made during those unstable periods.

 

[snafupants]

While I agree that this is true, there have been studies that prove there is an increase in suicide rates and single vehicle accidents directly (within 2 weeks) after a suicide story is made public in the news.

Essentially, someone sees someone else to whom they can relate commit suicide and the individual now sees suicide as a more realistic option because one of their peers just did it.

It may not be rational, but it may be natural.

To DT: my condolences for losing a friend. I have thought of suicide in the past. Everytime I thought about it, I concluded I would rather try and solve my issues without killing myself. It usually had to do with coping with whatever initiated the "emptiness" or the depression.

I hope this helps. If not, seek council.

Good Luck.

This happened with Kurt Cobain. However, perhaps those people who emulated Kurt were unstable before the suicide and the suicide was premeditated in some ways.

 

[Taniwha]

Suicide is a terrible thing to go through, several of my family friends took their lives last year in 2009. So my sympathies are with you.

Everybody fears death, and even more so when it happens to someone they know. Its not something you generally get used to. Even if you don't know the person who died, just being around the people who are mourning is emotionally disturbing. Its not a bad thing if you fear for your own death after the loss of another, its natural.
I would be more concerned If you wanted to join your friend six feet under.

As MatthewSawyer pointed out, when people realize that it is possible to do and they feel so close to pushing themselves to doing it, their fantasy becomes real right in front of them. All it takes is that last emotional shove, the loss of a loved one or something else that is just as daunting.

I've been down that road, it takes allot to get there.

Is it logical?

It is to the person who is going through the trials of their own world, who wish to end their suffering, or feel that they have to martyr themsevles for the good of others. Being suicidal is like a bad dream unfolding in front of you, the solution to waking up is to end it and to many people, death is that answer.

Is it logical to people that are watching from the outside?

No. Its an individuals distorted logic fueled by emotion.
Its only logical to the person who is going through it. To understand their pain and emotions you need to enter into their world. Its not something that you can *snap* someone out of. It manifests and grows, it disguises the root cause as it grows over time, so even the sufferer's themselves don't recognize it. Its an internal darkness that covers everything. Suicide is the soul's last cry for help. Even though on the outside it may seem bright, inside the individuals heart is a dark abyss.

The only way I can explain it, is through emotional and figurative writing. Because that's what suicide essentially is, an action powered by emotion which has been built up over time.
The bigger the problems are, the harder they fall and that's what tends to happen when you bottle up your emotions. It takes a strong and disciplined person to empty their bottles as soon as they appear. Most people would rather turn their back on them, pretend they don't exist and refuse to acknowledge them. But every person has a stash bottles waiting to be emptied. Counseling and therapy is an ideal way to empty them. Its not easy, but it needs to be done. Its the only way you can move forward in life after receiving the hard knocks.

 

[EditorOne]

What Matthew said. What Taniwha said.

I had blind, stupid luck preventing two suicides when I was much, much younger, a teenager. It was with friends who were something close, at least, to what we now call INTP. I told one he if killed himself he wouldn't be around to see how it all turned out. That rang a chime. The other one, I pointed out that if he now felt bad enough to kill himself, the odds were good he'd feel better tomorrow, because killing yourself seemed like a natural low benchmark. That, also, rang a bell. 40 or so years later, they're still around, and naturally we never talk about that dark moment. But I got very lucky. Had they been some other personality type, I could have pushed a button that told them I had no idea what they were going through and moved them closer to the decision to jump off the ship.

Remember, we had virtually nothing in the way of useful counseling when I was younger. It never occurred to me to get adult help because I was convinced anyone authorized to dispense it would just hand out platitudes that would probably make me suicidal even if I wasn't to start with. So I didn't take my friends to get help. When someone else overdosed on alcohol, we took them to the hospital, that was a viable solution. But this was the dark ages, if you let it out you were suicidal you got a truckload of guff and were essentially told to "man up" or something, and got a lot of judgmental crap poured on your already weakened psyche.
NOW, I think things are radically different, a lot of people recognize this is a real problem with identifiable causes and workable solutions, so if you are glumming out big time, GET COUNSELING! You're not going to be treated like a freak. You will be taken seriously and treated with compassion and empath, which could make you feel awkward and spotlighted, but I say that's better than dead. You probably need to lay out the INTP thing for whoever you reach out to, so they don't shoot at the wrong target, but intelligent, practical, useful people are out there ready and willing to HELP you. And since you are an INTP, and not good with dealing with feelings, and feelings are what's on the table, yeah, find someone who can relate and put them to work bolstering your weakest aspect, feelings. Accept help. There aren't enough INTPs in the world, we can't afford to lose any or the forum will shrivel.

I was never suicidal, but I freely admit I'd have had a better life and be happier right now had there been anyone at all available to normalize some of the crap we INTPs go through before we find out we aren't broken, we're actually pretty damned special.

I must be serious because I'm using capital letters, plus I'm an old guy, so please take this seriously. I don't buy the "Well, if you think it through logically, sometimes some people are so miserable being dead is good." For an INTP, it's just a total waste of the kind of potential that could make the world a more interesting place.

Besides, do you really want others to go through what you're going through, trying to come to grips with YOUR death?

 

[The Gopher]

Besides, do you really want others to go through what you're going through, trying to come to grips with YOUR death?

Yeah we aren't the most compassionate people but imagine that fact that you could feel bad without ever meeting the guy and what people would think who know you.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

Is there some underlying reason why you should fear suicide in yourself?

Depression runs in the family, nobody has ever committed suicide though. But I have already been in a bit of an emotional low for a few months now. Occasionally the thought would go through my mind for a second but I quickly realized that's not a smart solution since you'll never be able to live again anyways, it'd be a shame to waste that minute chance you have of recieving a consciousness.

But yeah, today I have been fairly relaxed, I've just kind of accepted it as his choice, probably the wrong one, but not something I'd suddenly do too. Talking about it still makes me shake a little, and the idea that he's gone forever is weird, it'll probably be in my head for a few days, imagining what he must've felt like and such, wishing somebody could've changed his mind even though that'd be hard. But it'll most likely pass because I've never met him in the flesh anyways... The pain his family and friends must feel must be awful though... I actually found out his mother was a junkie, and that he was grounded for months, and attempted suicide a few times at a young age as well, so the whole thing didn't come out of nowhere.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I actually found out his mother was a junkie, and that he was grounded for months, and attempted suicide a few times at a young age as well, so the whole thing didn't come out of nowhere.

It never does. Regardless of whether parents are feelers, thinkers or balanced, they need to be aware of the development of their children. Even just recognition and acknowledgement can disperse those negative sentiments.

 

[JarNew]

How did you find out, did you have mutual online friends?

Unless you're already suicidal and deeply traumatized by the death of someone you didn't even truly know, or a 12 year old goth conformist, why would you kill yourself?

Having suicidal thoughts does not mean you're going to just pick up a gun and shoot yourself like a robot..

YOU are in control of your choices and actions, you're not going to kill yourself unless you decide to.

Only cowards and the mentally ill commit suicide.

It doesn't sound silly, it sounds selfish. I suggest seeing a therapist and getting in touch with your feelings and realizing YOU ARE IN CONTROL OF YOUR ACTIONS

 

[Minuend]

You probably need to lay out the INTP thing for whoever you reach out to, so they don't shoot at the wrong target, but intelligent, practical, useful people are out there ready and willing to HELP you.

Why would they care?

I don't mean to sound rude, I'm actually curious. Why do they care whether a random induvidual ends it's futile existence or not? Why waste resources on people who contribute nothing, have no value..

I don't think that about suicidal people, I'm just curious why people care.

Do people care or are they just trying to feed their egos by being holier-than-thou? Even though they are not aware of them thinking so. Feel good about themselves for "helping" people. Does the human matter at all?

 

[Cognisant]

In the human condition suffering is inescapable, to be alive necessitates that you suffer in some way, although the extent and severity of this suffering can be changed.

In death there is no suffering, nor is there peace, there is simply nothing... I have been and to some extent I still am, a nihilist, and I admit there have been times when I've considered actualising my beliefs, to wilfully choose nothingness over life is imo the ultimate affirmation of free will, specifically a will free of the survival imperatives innate to the human condition.

I've looked into the void, it looked into me (in other words nihilism gave me a new perspective with which to see myself) and so the rules of the game changed, I'm quite satisfied with the fact that I could kill myself, it's an ever present option for me, but that would be easy and I already know the void, so I continue living, because it's the harder choice, because it hurts, because if nothing else I've got my masochistic pride.

No matter how bad life gets, I'm enjoying it.
If this is a kind of hell, then fine, I'm a demon, and this is my home.

 

[The Gopher]

Only cowards and the mentally ill commit suicide.

It doesn't sound silly, it sounds selfish. I suggest seeing a therapist and getting in touch with your feelings and realizing YOU ARE IN CONTROL OF YOUR ACTIONS

I hope your being sarcastic.

 

[onthewindowstand]

I hope your being sarcastic.

I dont think he is.

On a side not though, he claims that suicide is unique in how selfish it is. I would like him to point out one action that isn't performed because it fulfills some kind of a desire.

 

[JarNew]

@Groundhog - I'm not being sarcastic. In which part did you think there was sarcasm? Me saying it was selfish? Or that he should get in touch with his feelings?

@Bobglee - I wasn't saying suicide is selfish but yea I guess it is anyway. One action that isn't performed because it fulfills some type of desire is someone with tourettes slapping themself in the face? What is your point

Even if committing suicide fulfilled an immature, weak desire; there are still other, better ways of dealing with the cause of one's suicidal thoughts. Such as talking to a therapist, or joining a support group, or even shooting heroine to escape your problems can be considered better than killing yourself.

@ OP
Your post indicates that you're extremely out of touch with your feelings/ emotions, unsurprising since this is an INTP forum. You're probably feeling grief.

It's not your fault he killed himself. There was nothing you can do, there is nothing you can do -- but help yourself and get further in touch with your feelings.

 

[Taniwha]

Only cowards and the mentally ill commit suicide.

The mentally ill, troubled and disturbed? yes.
Cowards? generally not. Cowards run, hide, bury, turn their back against them and blame others for their problems.

People who commit suicide do so because they see it as a form of escape. To do something as drastic as suicide, they first have to admit their own problems and the problems around them. Instead of standing against them and accepting them for what they are, they become overpowered. Some people are too proud to seek or accept help, others scream for it but it lands on deaf ears.

I know last time I tried it, I attempted it because I saw myself as a failure with no future and that my family would be better off without me. I also thought that through suicide I was making way for the people that are being brought into the world and that I would be in peace with my deceased family members.

Many people have different reasons to commit suicide, some of them being myrtar cases. Its the inner strength within that has turned on against its provider which pushes people down the road to begin with. It takes a huge amount of will power and support to make the U-turn and exit the road. Its easy to judge from the outside, but people will generally not understand until they have walked down that road.

 

[The Gopher]

@Groundhog - I'm not being sarcastic. In which part did you think there was sarcasm? Me saying it was selfish? Or that he should get in touch with his feelings?

Groundhog oh very clever. But no it was the part that went like this

Only cowards and the mentally ill commit suicide.

However I don't think suicide is selfish either although everone that I have met who knows someone that has committed suicide seems to think that way.

And yes I know I haven't given any arguments why yet I might do that in the morning.

Edit: oh and I agree with Taniwha about "people will generally not understand until they have walked down that road"

 

[JarNew]

People who commit suicide do so because they see it as a form of escape.

[ Cowards run, hide, bury, turn their back against them and blame others for their problems. [/quote]

Those are all forms of escape. People who commit suicide are cowards. They fear other's perceptions of them, they fear the future, they fear themselves, they fear everything, they are afraid, and your right pride does have a big part of it but I think it's more of an egoic cowardly pride in that they think people aren't understanding. People who are proud usually think they're worthy to live

I have been down that road but due to a disagreement of opinion, (for whatever reasons) you've assumed and judged that I havn't been down that road. I actually just posted in your thread

I don't actually know anyone who's committed suicide, but suicides a common theme in my thoughts. But that's all it is, a thought. No different from thinking of fairies and happy bunnies. It's just a dark thought. You're right about feeling overpowered though. That's exaxtly what it is and because of that that makes me feel more that suicide is selfish. You're not considering the feelings of others when you kill yourself, you're only considering your own pain, your own feelings.

My judgements/opinions are based on my self.

Suicide is for weak, cowards who have given up hope. It's not their fault entirely, but that's what they are.

 

[Taniwha]

Suicide is for weak, cowards who have given up hope. It's not their fault entirely, but that's what they are.

You said that you based this on yourself.
I have had several family friends that have committed suicide and I have also attempted my own suicide more than once.

But Is escaping really an act of fear? or is it a release? Many people will hurt themsevles to escape their thoughts.
I agree that many people that contemplate suicide are making a selfish decision and not being considerate to others that care for them.

Hope? many people that are suicidal have lost the ability to hope. The word hope becomes a joke. In many ways, its hope that can make a person commit suicide, but its not the hope for their own life that drives them, its the hope for peace from the nightmare that the live does. The pain takes over the mind, the negative thoughts grow as they are being fueled by providers environment around them.

In this state it is extremely hard for the individual to make choices while considering others. In their mind they come first, even though It won't seem like that to them at the time. It depends on where you stand, some people are further down the road, while others are looking up at the sign post.

However, I can't call suicide a cowardly act. The individual is going against the biggest human fear (death) and instinct (survival).

 

[Dimensional Transition]

@ OP
Your post indicates that you're extremely out of touch with your feelings/ emotions, unsurprising since this is an INTP forum. You're probably feeling grief.

It's not your fault he killed himself. There was nothing you can do, there is nothing you can do -- but help yourself and get further in touch with your feelings.

Yeah, I think it's done now. Still feels a little uneasy, but yeah. For some reason (which also makes me feel pretty mean and heartless) I've managed to rationalize the thing, see that many people have committed suicide, and that for most of them it was not the right solution. But it has to be accepted I guess. It's still a sad idea someone is gone for eternity though, he must've sunken really far into depression and been unable to realize fully that it would be the end forever and ever and ever... I've stopped contacting our mutual online friend(his girlfriend) since I figured we'd only remind each other of the whole ordeal because he was the only connection we had. And she REALLY knew him, so I don't want to constantly remind her of it either. There's nothing more special we could talk about now, there is nothing more to be said. I explained it to her and she seemed rather cold about it.

Suicide is a semi-normal thought lots of people have, but they should be able to rationalize it?

 

[JarNew]

@Taniwha with the mindset:

However, I can't call suicide a cowardly act. The individual is going against the biggest human fear (death) and instinct (survival).

I wouldn't be surprised if you commit suicide in the future with that mindset(horrible thing to say), I HOPE you don't but you seem to be idealizing the suicidal "individual".

People who commit suicide are AFRAID TO LIVE. Your post only further makes me believe they're mentally ill, driven mad by the expectations of society or their life situation -- which is not their life.

@Dimsenional Transition you're not mean or heartless at all for rationalizing it. What else could you do? Good idea with burning the bridge (ending communication with mutual person)

If you don't rationalize suicide then all you can do is think about how it may affect "loved ones". You can rationalize why it affects them too, but that's not going to do anything.

Suicide doesn't solve anything, it ends everything -- and for all we know, upon what our feeble human minds perceive as the end -- could possibly be a new beginning or entry into something much worse.

"Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem"

 

[Minuend]

People who commit suicide are AFRAID TO LIVE. Your post only further makes me believe they're mentally ill, driven mad by the expectations of society or their life situation -- which is not their life.

Suicide doesn't solve anything, it ends everything -- and for all we know, upon what our feeble human minds perceive as the end -- could possibly be a new beginning or entry into something much worse.

"Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem"

I see no idealizing from Taniwha. And your statement about suicidal individuals being this and that is way too simple. And it sounds to me like you're more concerned with showing your distaste so that people would step away from it and aviod being associated with it.

You say X is stupid so that the other person will think of X as something stupid and stop it.

It's a very common "debate" technique. I use it myself at times as well. Nevertheless, it's invalid.

It's not fear that is the cause- it's darkness. Eternal void that make the individual unable to feel joy, happiness, hope. There's only pain and suffering. Agonizing feelings tearing at one's inner world. There's no room for rest or peace.

Not everybody has people close to them. Yes, they might have family and friends, but those are not always more than a shallow façade. No support, relation, identity, connection, purpose.

Though, in the end, the suicidal ones don't give a damn what the act is or is not. When you are that down, the only thing that matters is that you'll soon be free. Not existing is the preferred option.

If I were that depressed, I wouldn't even care about my close ones being left behind without me.

Even if committing suicide fulfilled an immature, weak desire; there are still other, better ways of dealing with the cause of one's suicidal thoughts. Such as talking to a therapist, or joining a support group, or even shooting heroine to escape your problems can be considered better than killing yourself.

Many people who are feeling low have no self-esteem and are certain they will be ridiculed if they ever were to seek help. Some even are. They believe resources are wasted on them, that most would actually prefer them to be gone. They feel despised, pathetic, worthless. There's no reason they should seek help, after all, they're only a bother nobody cares about.

In addition, they are often ashamed of themselves and their thoughts. Sometimes they are worried about the consequences of seeking help.

There's a "chemical" side to depression as well, but so far I'm not confident in my knowledge on the topic to write anything about it.

Sometimes, death is the only answer. Existing is overrated. Everybody can't be saved. You can't always just seek help and be all happy 5 years later. Sometimes life is crap and that's all it will ever be.

 

[EditorOne]

"Why would they care?'

Why do I have to explain them? They exist, they make it their living or vocation or calling to help others; some people do so occasionally, others do it full time, all of them attach some degree of importance to it. Simply because you don't understand it doesn't mean it isn't so. If I had to explain it I'd say it's a genetic inheritance leading to evolutionary success for the species: A certain number of people inherently interested in the well being of others.

 

[Minuend]

You don't have to do anything. I ask because I am curious as to how people work and because I have a hard time believng anyone genuinely cares. It would be nice if they did, but...

Have you read The Selfish Gene by R Dawkins? How all altruistic actions are in some way to preserve oneself? Altruistic behaviour is always a indirect way to achieve one's own goals.

I did read a study which indicated the sense of fariness was evolutionary developed in our brains, so I don't neccessarily have to believe in "the selfish gene theory". Nevertheless, I find it hard to belive that people care for others selflessly. I believe they do so because they benefit from having a relationship with them or, like I said, because it bosts their self esteem or the sort.

 

[onthewindowstand]

@Groundhog - I'm not being sarcastic. In which part did you think there was sarcasm? Me saying it was selfish? Or that he should get in touch with his feelings?

@Bobglee - I wasn't saying suicide is selfish but yea I guess it is anyway. One action that isn't performed because it fulfills some type of desire is someone with tourettes slapping themself in the face? What is your point

Even if committing suicide fulfilled an immature, weak desire; there are still other, better ways of dealing with the cause of one's suicidal thoughts. Such as talking to a therapist, or joining a support group, or even shooting heroine to escape your problems can be considered better than killing yourself.

@ OP
Your post indicates that you're extremely out of touch with your feelings/ emotions, unsurprising since this is an INTP forum. You're probably feeling grief.

It's not your fault he killed himself. There was nothing you can do, there is nothing you can do -- but help yourself and get further in touch with your feelings.

Your example is wrong.

And the point is that using a descriptive term that could be used for literally any anction is futile and has no purpose. If you are going to criticize something you should use descriptive terms that are unique to that subject.

 

[Taniwha]

@Taniwha with the mindset:

I wouldn't be surprised if you commit suicide in the future with that mindset(horrible thing to say), I HOPE you don't but you seem to be idealizing the suicidal "individual".

People who commit suicide are AFRAID TO LIVE. Your post only further makes me believe they're mentally ill, driven mad by the expectations of society or their life situation -- which is not their life.

People who kill themselves tend to be more afraid of the pain that comes with life, not so much with life itself. Its more the fear of seeing the world they know crumble and collapse in front of them. Their aspirations, their dreams and even the ones around them that they love. These things are often the foundation of many people. To have them taken away from you is like having the rug swept out from under you.

If there is one thing that people fear more than death, its the fear of the unknown. People fear death because they are unsure of the fate that awaits them, it is the reverse for those that are suicidal, its the fear of living on without what they know. It takes allot for a person to commit suicide, and without a doubt many fight to find what is worth living on for. Some succeed, and others unfortunately fall. These people are the Atlases of their own inner worlds and eventually the weight of their bottled up emotions crushes them.

It is unfair to say that people who commit suicide are cowards and cast them out into the open as black sheep. All people are cowards, we all live with an inner fear of something. People who commit suicide are not bigger cowards than their counterparts that live on. But I will say that the bravest of people are the ones who speak out, have learnt to acknowledge and accept their own fears and search for help.

As for my own life, I have much to live on for.
I am speaking out, I am learning to accept my fears and I am getting the help I need through working with my therapist.

 

[Moocow]

How is suicide more selfish than living?

 

[Firehazard159]

How is suicide more selfish than living?

And along that line of thought, if it's selfish to commit suicide, is it not also selfish for others to expect you to live in pain when you do wish to end your life due to the struggles you face?

A bit of a double standard. Some of the views expressed in this thread rather shock me, and well, someone I know just died the day before thanksgiving, still pending investigation but I believe it likely to be a suicide, given the circumstances.

In my opinion, the choice to live or die is ones own, and everyone should respect that. I do think people who are suicidal should get help, but in the end, if one wishes to end their suffering, and cannot or will not choose to find their way back to the path of wanting to live - well, that's their inevitability/prerogative, and I won't think less of them for it. I won't consider them a coward; indeed, I would say it takes an immense amount of strength and courage to end ones own life - imagine holding a gun to your own head, would it really be so easy?

 

[Moocow]

And along that line of thought, if it's selfish to commit suicide, is it not also selfish for others to expect you to live in pain when you do wish to end your life due to the struggles you face?

A bit of a double standard. Some of the views expressed in this thread rather shock me, and well, someone I know just died the day before thanksgiving, still pending investigation but I believe it likely to be a suicide, given the circumstances.

In my opinion, the choice to live or die is ones own, and everyone should respect that. I do think people who are suicidal should get help, but in the end, if one wishes to end their suffering, and cannot or will not choose to find their way back to the path of wanting to live - well, that's their inevitability/prerogative, and I won't think less of them for it. I won't consider them a coward; indeed, I would say it takes an immense amount of strength and courage to end ones own life - imagine holding a gun to your own head, would it really be so easy?

If anything I see it as the most (and perhaps the only) literally selfless act one can possibly make. Think about it... you're completely removing your self from existence. Selfless.

Are the people condemning suicide just fearful of the reality of it? Do we really have to condemn such an act as morally wrong to prevent ourselves from ever considering it?

It's not like any of us made the choice to live in the first place. Is it quitting if you never joined?

 

[DarkGreen]

Cowards will never committ suicide but they often threaten it. My previous boyfriend drove me up a wall with this following stunt. He had a friend contact me online:
Him: "I'm sorry for your loss."
Me: "What?"
Him: "You didn't know?"
Me: "What the hell are you talking about?"
Him: "Your boyfriend called me and made me listen to his suicide."
Me: "What?! What?!"
My boyfriend had been talking about committing suicide because I wanted to get out of our relationship. He had been abusing me for months with talk of his death and him killing himself. He did it because he loved to hear my voice on the phone, sobbing and cajoling him to stay alive. I had been previously untouched by this much emotional disturbance.
Him: "Yeah, he called me and I was trying to talk him down from his attic window when I heard glass shattering..."
Me: "Oh god."
Him: "What? He was trash."
Me: "I'm --- going to go cry my eyes out."
I got off the computer and sobbed on my bed for 3 hours before calling his mom. I left a message saying I had been informed of his death and I wanted to confirm the reality.
A couple hours later my ex got on the phone, "I'm so angry someone said that to you."
That dumb man whore probably put his friend up to it. What I learned then is that cowards don't committ suicide. When my ex had confessed his fears to me the bitch listed, "Cellophane," as the top stressers in his life. I made comparisons childishly against him and Lord Voldemort when I finally read the Harry Potter books. Voldemort's greatest fear was death, so therefore it's not the evil people you need to fear suicide from. It's the happy ones who smile and never let on. Which is a really scary fact.

 

[Moocow]

Cowards will never committ suicide but they often threaten it. My previous boyfriend drove me up a wall with this following stunt. He had a friend contact me online:
Him: "I'm sorry for your loss."
Me: "What?"
Him: "You didn't know?"
Me: "What the hell are you talking about?"
Him: "Your boyfriend called me and made me listen to his suicide."
Me: "What?! What?!"
My boyfriend had been talking about committing suicide because I wanted to get out of our relationship. He had been abusing me for months with talk of his death and him killing himself. He did it because he loved to hear my voice on the phone, sobbing and cajoling him to stay alive. I had been previously untouched by this much emotional disturbance.
Him: "Yeah, he called me and I was trying to talk him down from his attic window when I heard glass shattering..."
Me: "Oh god."
Him: "What? He was trash."
Me: "I'm --- going to go cry my eyes out."
I got off the computer and sobbed on my bed for 3 hours before calling his mom. I left a message saying I had been informed of his death and I wanted to confirm the reality.
A couple hours later my ex got on the phone, "I'm so angry someone said that to you."
That dumb man whore probably put his friend up to it. What I learned then is that cowards don't committ suicide. When my ex had confessed his fears to me the bitch listed, "Cellophane," as the top stressers in his life. I made comparisons childishly against him and Lord Voldemort when I finally read the Harry Potter books. Voldemort's greatest fear was death, so therefore it's not the evil people you need to fear suicide from. It's the happy ones who smile and never let on. Which is a really scary fact.

Well, the ones that just want attention and are willing to pull everyone else's emotional strings to get it are a different story. In my opinion and experience, those people are not worth caring for in the end because they refuse to establish care in a legitimate way.

 

[DarkGreen]

He inspired me to put the first proverb in my signature. I think that these types, like my ex, confuse the issue. My brother actually committed suicide but he was high on drugs. I can't say that suicide is selfish now and believe that my brother wanted to cause everyone pain. I think he had a verifiable need to be recognized by mom who had adopted him away and he had gone downhill from there. Suicidal people genuinely need help but hardly anyone who's untrained can interpret the smoke signals they try to communicate with. I have to say it's not Dimensional Transition's fault for not recognizing the subtle warnings. My other brother who was closest to the nowdisceased one didn't have a clue until the people who found my dead brother's body in the desert told him what had happened. He had shot himself in the head with meth in his system. I have to say that you shouldn't do drugs for this reason also. Even though this isn't a drug thread.

 

[The Gopher]

It's the happy ones who smile and never let on. Which is a really scary fact.

yeah and if they do let on it's only though dark humour so you can't tell if there are joking or not.

 

[JarNew]

@Moocow
I think it's selfish because they're inconsiderate of the feelings of others because they're so full of self loathing and self importance, it's almost paradoxical from the way I'm looking at it.

[my pain is so much worse than everyone elses, no one else is in pain. in stead of accepting that everyone is in pain and possibly helping other people to live better more fulfilling lives and in the process find purpose, i will instead end my own pain. i am not meant for this world, this world was not made for me. i will kill my self and prove to my self through causeing my own death through ending my own life that -- i am in control of my life and i am in control of my pain. my sins of the past are too great, people will not understand, people only care about themselves(projection).. ]

Again I personally don't know anyone who's committed suicide but I do know a few people who have attempted, and I know them very well. My argument is based off of my past cowardly mindset and mindsets of unhealthy emotionally dependent friends. I don't know other's mindsets before they commit suicide but it can't be much different. We're all humans with the same emotions.

I believe they are cowards because they're afraid to go to others for help and afraid to accept absolute responsibility (within the limits of their society) for their own life. There are sooooo many better options than suicide.

@Taniwha

People who kill themselves tend to be more afraid of the pain that comes with life

They're afraid of perceived pain (delusions/illusions) We're human beings, not fortune tellers. We don't know what the future's going to bring.
What it requires in order to see if those delusions come true or not.... is to actually live, and see tomorrow after tomorrow.. without fear -- They're afraid to live.

Its more the fear of seeing the world they know crumble and collapse in front of them. Their aspirations, their dreams and even the ones around them that they love. These things are often the foundation of many people. To have them taken away from you is like having the rug swept out from under you.

I Agree completely because that was a major cause of my suicidal thoughts along with intense shameful guilt.

If there is one thing that people fear more than death, its the fear of the unknown. People fear death because they are unsure of the fate that awaits them, it is the reverse for those that are suicidal, its the fear of living on without what they know. It takes allot for a person to commit suicide, and without a doubt many fight to find what is worth living on for. Some succeed, and others unfortunately fall. These people are the Atlases of their own inner worlds and eventually the weight of their bottled up emotions crushes them.

People only fear the unknown when they think about it, that's anxiety. I don't fear death yet so idk, I'm too young.

When you're in a deep self-induced despressed suicidal state suicide is the only thing that is on your mind. It takes nothing but availability of chosen permanent escape imo.

All people are cowards, we all live with an inner fear of something.

We don't all allow it to control our fate though

But I will say that the bravest of people are the ones who speak out, have learnt to acknowledge and accept their own fears and search for help.

Agreed. Everyone has the ability also.

And along that line of thought, if it's selfish to commit suicide, is it not also selfish for others to expect you to live in pain when you do wish to end your life due to the struggles you face?

That's selfish too but how many people who commit suicide actually truly and fully talk to people about their problems?

Idk really. My argument is probably immature due to my little experience and knowledge of the subject. It's definitely a much more complex issue that's out of my understanding

 

[crippli]

I tried bungee jumping off a bridge once. As an experiment I decided to jump as high as I could. What I experienced was that my knees went weak. I just couldn't do it more then half hearted, even if I knew I was relatively secure. This leads me to be believe there are inborn mechanisms in all of us. Survival mechanisms. And to commit suicide these needs to be broken down. When this happens I'm not sure the suicidal person has many means of escape.

Naturally, I didn't do more then one jump. I'd like to have these protective mechanisms in place. The human mind is fragile enough as it is. At least in my case.

 

[Minuend]

Though, I suppose, at least if a friend is doing you a favour it means you are somewhat important to it's ego for it to invest anything in you

 

[Dimensional Transition]

I have to say that you shouldn't do drugs for this reason also. Even though this isn't a drug thread.

Any drugs? Not even alcohol or Cannabis?
Meth is quite a drastic drug compared to normal use of those two.

 

[Moocow]

@Moocow
I think it's selfish because they're inconsiderate of the feelings of others because they're so full of self loathing and self importance, it's almost paradoxical from the way I'm looking at it.

[my pain is so much worse than everyone elses, no one else is in pain. in stead of accepting that everyone is in pain and possibly helping other people to live better more fulfilling lives and in the process find purpose, i will instead end my own pain. i am not meant for this world, this world was not made for me. i will kill my self and prove to my self through causeing my own death through ending my own life that -- i am in control of my life and i am in control of my pain. my sins of the past are too great, people will not understand, people only care about themselves(projection).. ]

Again I personally don't know anyone who's committed suicide but I do know a few people who have attempted, and I know them very well. My argument is based off of my past cowardly mindset and mindsets of unhealthy emotionally dependent friends. I don't know other's mindsets before they commit suicide but it can't be much different. We're all humans with the same emotions.

I believe they are cowards because they're afraid to go to others for help and afraid to accept absolute responsibility (within the limits of their society) for their own life. There are sooooo many better options than suicide.

@Taniwha

They're afraid of perceived pain (delusions/illusions) We're human beings, not fortune tellers. We don't know what the future's going to bring.
What it requires in order to see if those delusions come true or not.... is to actually live, and see tomorrow after tomorrow.. without fear -- They're afraid to live.

I Agree completely because that was a major cause of my suicidal thoughts along with intense shameful guilt.


People only fear the unknown when they think about it, that's anxiety. I don't fear death yet so idk, I'm too young.

When you're in a deep self-induced despressed suicidal state suicide is the only thing that is on your mind. It takes nothing but availability of chosen permanent escape imo.


We don't all allow it to control our fate though


Agreed. Everyone has the ability also.


That's selfish too but how many people who commit suicide actually truly and fully talk to people about their problems?

Idk really. My argument is probably immature due to my little experience and knowledge of the subject. It's definitely a much more complex issue that's out of my understanding

I really do not think those are the only reasons people commit suicide.

Any drugs? Not even alcohol or Cannabis?
Meth is quite a drastic drug compared to normal use of those two.

I was going to say something but didn't to avoid derailing the thread but... "drugs" is a terrible outdated word. Does anyone else know any suicidal folk that have been saved from their own self-loathing by psychedelics? ie. LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, DMT, etc.

It should be easy to tell at this point that drugs like meth are not a great idea, but I think psychedelics deserve a bit more credit. Some people even use them to rapidly aid in quitting addictions.