Forcing yourself to be who you want to be

[Redfire]

I don't know where else to start this thread. Please move it if it's necessary.

I've found that I'm happier when I force myself to do certain things. Let me explain. There are three kinds of activities I do:

1 - Activities I don't want to do. e.g: cleaning, cooking, doing my laundry, buying groceries, shaving. Why do I do them? Because I respect myself enough not to live like a slob.
2 - High-effort activities that I do want to do. e.g: reading, studying.
3 - Low-effort activities that I do want to do. e.g: web surfing, watching movies.

When I force myself to do more of the third kind of activities, I'm happier. So why am I not always like that? Well, in the short run, the second kind of activities give me more pleasure and cause me less pain. Watching a movie or reading an article in Wikipedia or TVTropes is very easy. However: in the long run I'm more satisfied by high-effort activities.

So, knowing this, the conclusion is that with more effort I can be happier. But I only do it to a certain extent (more than before, but not enough). Why? The only posible answer is laziness. Not wanting to suffer the pain that comes from high-effort activities. And that is so disgusting. Suffering and happiness are two sides of the same coin. Choosing comfort instead of happiness is just not right.

My question: do you identify at all with this? Because sometimes it seems to me that those of you who are succesful, and who I view as role-models, are just comfortable with what you are doing; it feels natural to you. It just isn't that way at all with me, I feel tense. I force myself to be a better person (not in a moral way, more in a Nietzschean way if you want: a higher form of man).
I do remember Architect saying he had to force himself to study in college, but nowadays he doesn't feel that way anymore.

 

[Architect]

Good post. I've talked about this recently from a different angle ("A proposal for the problem of INTP laziness"), I like your take on it. Breaking it into high & low effort activities, and ones you don't like to do.

In the other thread I identified it as a struggle between our exploratory nature (Ne - Perceiving) and analytical (Ti - Judging). All IN's have this dichotomy; which is a dominant judging/perceiving function opposite the one they extravert. For the intP we extravert perception but our dominant Ti is judging. I think this is why IN's have trouble acting in the world, I see a similar struggle in INFJ's.

I do remember Architect saying he had to force himself to study in college, but nowadays he doesn't feel that way anymore.

Yes I had to push myself back then, now it's more of a luxury so I have little trouble doing it, when I have the time! Which is very little, I keep dropping classes left and right.

Anyhow it seems to be a continuous struggle. Here's an example you might find useful. I worked pretty hard last week and this weekend it seemed like I needed a break. So I worked on projects around the house and goofed off - played computer games for the most part. I enjoyed it, it seemed to rejuvenate me so I felt "whole" or repaired from the week, however by Sunday evening I also felt a little empty. It seemed that I should have gotten some work done. What I realized is that I should have put in at least an hour or two to my projects, in addition to the goofing off.

Which comes to one thing I've discovered that does work, sometimes called "snoflaking". In our Ti-Ne struggle it comes off sometimes as an "all or nothing", but better is to give both their time. However you want to manage this, some ideas ...

• I tend to do my "Hard but I want to do" stuff first in the day. Do it early, then save the evening for goofing off. Easier to motivate yourself that way (I've been doing this since I was 20 in college, I took all my math classes early before 9AM).
• You can try Pomodero or a varient. I haven't had a lot of luck with this but it's worth looking into.
• Simply psyching yourself up for it if all else fails. Give yourself an hour and say "I'll do it for this hour".

Over time it'll get easier as you develop habits.

 

[Ex-User (8886)]

I do not agree with forcing to do anything. Most things, which we force to do, are created by other people and limit our freedom. Because freedom is one of the most important thing in INTps life and the most important for me, I would suggest to do only things that you want to do. But there is one trick in it. You really must know what you want. It's trivial, but most people don't know what they want, and especially Fe people, so INTps too.

Spoiler

So now I leave topic and say about "wanting". I noticed, that most things I do, even thoose I like (playing games for example) I don't really want to do it. You Redfire said one importand thing, there are low-efforst activities and hight-effort activities. So why we choose low-effort activities? Because they cost few, and gives instant pleasure. To achive greater things, you need some effort without any pleasure for a long time. So the problem is in our mind, we need to think more abstract and more imaginary. This ability is also one of the most important thing in humans - to detach from the real "here and now" and look from the other perspective, more objective, less emotions. So I would say, that Ne and Ni can help us the most. Why not Ti? One person told me, that my best ability is my imagination. Why Einstein achived succes? He wasn't good at math, he wasn't the most intelligent person in his times, but he has the greatest imagination what possible could be. I think we already have too much Ti and overanalyzing withering our intuition. Also Ti isn't abstract. ISTPs aren't abstract (not much). If you want know how to develop your Ne I have very simple answer for all of you (INTps) - become more extroverted. It's also easy - develop your energetic and informational metabolism - start some kind of sport and read more, watch more movies, talk or write more etc. How this everything help us knowing what we want? First, with being more extroverted (using Ne) it's easier to put some effort (it's not importand what we do, with Ne starting is much much easier), Second thinking about something abstract lowers your pain in "here and now", how can you feel, when you're outside your body? Then you will find, what you want to do.

And don't look at ENTps - they have already too big Ne, and they need to develop Ti instead (because Ti help to achive everything what you want to).

[there is one more thing, I don't say that you should daydreaming or think for w whole day about something; I'm only saying about motivation, and about finding what you want to do]

in a big shortcut: just stop sometimes and imagine what you are doing, then start doing it;
and never force yourself to do something, because you think you should do this, or someone told you that your stiupid because you're different;
do what you want and when people interrupt your life, listen to them, smile, agree, and do what you had to do.

 

[Pyropyro]

Rather than looking at the problem itself. I instead try to train myself to crave flow which can only achieved by doing something awesomely. It's hard though but I'm already seeing results in my jogging routine.

As for OP's laziness, I doubt that it is laziness. I believe it is our innate Ti-derived fear. In our quest for perfection (not to mention being overly hard on ourselves), we get paralyzed before we can do things.

 

[J-man]

When I'm really clear on what I want and how to get it, I don't have to force myself to work toward my goals. But I think that because I've created such a complicated life for myself it's easy to lose clarity. Or maybe it's not so much that I'm complicated as it is that my mind is clingy and fearful.

Sometimes I'll lose touch with what I really want deep down, and I'll keep forcing myself to work toward it, but because I'm so afraid to face my true feelings I can't progress organically. I'm afraid of the possibility that I don't actually want it anymore. It's a downward spiral that leads nowhere. Does anyone else have this problem?

But yes, I can definitely relate to what you're saying, Redfire. I've lived a life trying to make NO effort and I was miserable. I've also lived the other extreme, holding to my ideal no matter what and being a workaholic. I was also miserable. There is a happy medium.

When I was a teenager, I forced myself to do all kinds of difficult things, but I did not think about it in terms of forcing or effort. I worked really hard because I was terrified of being a loser and of not achieving my goals. But now that I am more free of those demons, I have to make effort. It's two different ways of looking at the same thing. I think that one way or another, a successful person works really hard.

 

[Happy]

Which comes to one thing I've discovered that does work, sometimes called "snoflaking". In our Ti-Ne struggle it comes off sometimes as an "all or nothing", but better is to give both their time. However you want to manage this, some ideas ...

• I tend to do my "Hard but I want to do" stuff first in the day. Do it early, then save the evening for goofing off. Easier to motivate yourself that way (I've been doing this since I was 20 in college, I took all my math classes early before 9AM).
• You can try Pomodero or a varient. I haven't had a lot of luck with this but it's worth looking into.
• Simply psyching yourself up for it if all else fails. Give yourself an hour and say "I'll do it for this hour".

Over time it'll get easier as you develop habits.

I mostly agree with this. One bit of further input I have is that as the hardest part of doing anything is to start it, perhaps psyche yourself up by saying to yourself "I'll do this for 2 minutes. Then I'll re-evaluate after that". This is pretty much the only way I can get around to the most tedious of tasks.

Also, Getting Things Done (aka GTD) may be some useful reading. It's a lot easier to force yourself to do things that will make you who you want to be if those things are laid out in front of you with small actionable steps.

 

[yaleha]

It's normal to want to be lazy for every human being.

 

[Redfire]

I just want to report I did read everything, and also Architect's thread, but I haven't been able to draw conclusions yet. And I forgot to mention that when I'm at work, I usually have no trouble with what I have to do. So there's a silver lining to external pressure, it motivates me in a way I can't usually motivate myself.

I think that one way or another, a successful person works really hard.

This may do as a conclusion, to be honest. It usually doesn't help to overthink things.