Feminism

[DesertSmeagle]

Fuck. I have to write a paper for college english about an essay i read about feminism. The same thing happened last year in highschool, i had to write 800 papers on feminism. What is it with english teachers and feminism? I think its dumb. The essay i read is about this woman who went undercover into the maid business, in order to find out what working conditions were like, and they suck. she also found out that most people in the maid business are women, and says thats unfair.. Its so stupid, its not the businesses fault they have mostly women. The women dont have to apply for the job, and i doubt that many men do. Im all for equal rights shit, but theres a line thats being crossed. If you dont like to clean up dog semen dont apply for the job. Theres plenty of other jobs for illegal immigrants and women. I guess men could make the same argument for certain jobs, but they dont. Because they dont give a shit. Why do women give a shit?

Im not being sexist or anyting, but if you dont want the job, dont apply for it. And men dont want to apply for being a maid. Thats why the maid business is mostly women.There i just destroyed the essay that this bitch wrote.

What do you think about feminism. I think its dumb. We have these women bitching about being treated badly or different. Do they want men to treat them like men? Thatd be funny. I know sexism still exists and its horrible, but give the stupid shit a rest. Its not like the maid business is making women apply and then having them all raped and beaten.

 

[Wish]

http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=7025&highlight=feminism

and less importantly...

http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=7896&highlight=feminism

 

[DesertSmeagle]

oh

 

[EyeSeeCold]

There i just destroyed the essay that this bitch wrote.

Lol.

What do you think about feminism. I think its dumb. We have these women bitching about being treated badly or different. Do they want men to treat them like men? Thatd be funny. I know sexism still exists and its horrible, but give the stupid shit a rest. Its not like the maid business is making women apply and then having them all raped and beaten.

Hmm, I don't think I really have an authentic stance so I'll paraphrase what my teacher said:

I think Feminists have a good intention, but they are going about it the wrong way. For the last 200s years women have been trying to make themselves appear just as equal to men. Their goal has been to make a women appear as a man. And I think that's a bad idea. What they should have been doing is fighting for respect, not to be seen as men (probably a result of most of the early feminists being butch), but to be seen as an opposite force to be reckoned with. Instead of trying to integrate the workplace why not create a whole other work system for women?

The problem with current feminism is that it's a double-edged sword. Women want to be seen as equal as men, but still want to be treated like a woman (i.e. they still expect chivalry).

 

[DesertSmeagle]

Lol.



Hmm, I don't think I really have an authentic stance so I'll paraphrase what my teacher said:

I think Feminists have a good intention, but they are going about it the wrong way. For the last 200s years women have been trying to make themselves appear just as equal to men. Their goal has been to make a women appear as a man. And I think that's a bad idea. What they should have been doing is fighting for respect, not to be seen as men (probably a result of most of the early feminists being butch), but to be seen as an opposite force to be reckoned with. Instead of trying to integrate the workplace why not create a whole other work system for women?

The problem with current feminism is that it's a double-edged sword. Women want to be seen as equal as men, but still want to be treated like a woman (i.e. they still expect chivalry).

YES...thats exactly what i was trying to say. Woman should just try to gain respect, not become men. They should take advantage of their gender roles and do awsome shit with it and try to make men want to become women haa.

 

[Anthile]

Yeah, let's generalize 3.4 billion people!

 

[DesertSmeagle]

Yeah, let's generalize 3.4 billion people!

How am i generalizing? am i saying all women are stupid? Men have gender roles too. How many women do you see in the construction or carpentry business? It doesnt even matter, every good job has an equal amount of males and females. Who cares about the shitty jobs. A maid makes just as much as a construction worker, and its not bad pay for not having an education.

I have huge respect for people like my mom. She cleans the shit out of my house and is an awesome cook.

 

[SilentChaos]

I don’t get it, how does this have anything to do with intps? This tread is just requesting a discussion with intps, is that all that connection with the topic?

 

[Trebuchet]

Everyone gets crummy essay assignments; there is no getting around them. Feminism is a common topic for those, because it is easy to find something to say. But it isn't worth getting mad at all women or all feminists or the woman who went undercover because of it. Why not be mad at your professor instead?

Since you clearly have some strong opinions, why don't you remove all the instances of the words "fuck" and "shit," and add in some commas, run the spell-checker, and there's your paper. You don't approve of feminism. Fine. Write that down and add some supporting arguments and turn it in.

Or you could look deeper for the answers to your questions. I thought it was an interesting question you raised of why people consider this an essay-worthy topic. The answer isn't a simple one-liner. Who are the people who consider it so? What are their backgrounds and agendas? Has anyone else written about the subject? (Studs Terkel) Who approves of feminism, and who disapproves? Is the life of a maid something that should be a concern of feminism? What are the analogues in the life of men? Any of these would turn into an interesting enough paper to get you an A, and maybe not even be a waste of your time.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Everyone gets crummy essay assignments; there is no getting around them. Feminism is a common topic for those, because it is easy to find something to say. But it isn't worth getting mad at all women or all feminists or the woman who went undercover because of it. Why not be mad at your professor instead?.

This post made a thought resurface. Anyone think that the writability of an essay can be dependent on its subject? And to go even further does being an INTP hinder one's ability to take a strong stance and write a good essay?

I have been having having problems ever since middle school, yet I have a profound understanding of writing techniques, grammar, vocabulary etc yet it is very troubling for me to write in a very passionate way on a topic that I really don't have a personal care for. If this is recurrent in INTPs, is it fair for us to have to write on topics that do not gauge our personal feelings?

 

[DesertSmeagle]

This post made a thought resurface. Anyone think that the writability of an essay can be dependent on its subject? And to go even further does being an INTP hinder one's ability to take a strong stance and write a good essay?

I have been having having problems ever since middle school, yet I have a profound understanding of writing techniques, grammar, vocabulary etc yet it is very troubling for me to write in a very passionate way on a topic that I really don't have a personal care for. If this is recurrent in INTPs, is it fair for us to have to write on topics that do not gauge our personal feelings?

Hmm good point. I got A's on the 2 papers i got to write while chosing the topic last year in highschool. The first one was a 10 page essay on parapsychology..sadly i found that there is no legit evidence for any parapsychological stuff. Then i wrote my last 13 page paper on life in the universe. I doubt my teacher even read them.

 

[Trebuchet]

This post made a thought resurface. Anyone think that the writability of an essay can be dependent on its subject? And to go even further does being an INTP hinder one's ability to take a strong stance and write a good essay?

I have been having having problems ever since middle school, yet I have a profound understanding of writing techniques, grammar, vocabulary etc yet it is very troubling for me to write in a very passionate way on a topic that I really don't have a personal care for. If this is recurrent in INTPs, is it fair for us to have to write on topics that do not gauge our personal feelings?

Yes, the topic makes a huge difference to the difficulty of the assignment. I don't think being an INTP makes this worse. I actually had it easier than my peers because, like you, I enjoyed language for its own sake.

What really helped was when I realized what my strength was in essay writing. I have a quirky take on basically everything, and frequently got back comments about how no one else had ever approached the paper from my point of view before. I never had any idea what the "normal" point of view was, so I can't say why mine came across that way.

Another help was when I started writing essays in order to get a particular response from the teacher. I would suck up shamelessly, or write exactly the opposite of what they wanted, or throw in some scientific papers I knew they wouldn't understand, or whatever I felt like doing. It was good training in how to gauge an audience, and manipulate a boss, in a safe environment where disagreeing wouldn't get me fired.

As for it being unfair to make INTPs write on boring topics, I would say no. Being able to crank out a bunch of legible text on whatever comes along is actually a useful skill. Any topic is fine for practice, even if it does make things dreary sometimes. The only thing to do is find some perspective that makes it slightly interesting and then get it done.

 

[DesertSmeagle]

Im a master essay writer as well. I owned my AP english class last year, well at least at essay writing. I only enjoyed and read one book the whole year. We "read" about 10 books the whole year, the only one i read was Anthem by Ayn Rand. The rest were shitty books about feminism in the early 1900s and i didnt read any of them. Oh ya, and 1984. I skimmed through that, it was good. But the only thing i dont like about essays is citing my sources. I know all this shit, but i dont remmeber where i learned it, so i dread geting all the information. its painstaking.

 

[typus]

Feminism is awesome, the dreadful post-feminism coming in from the left, and in some cases even the right, is horrible. Affirmative action, imposing how to split the parental leave, basing salaries not on individuals but on what identifiable social group you belong to... Brr!

 

[Minuend]

What!? She's demanding that you should learn something that has been a crucial part of history, has drastically changed society and that is still a relevant topic today?!

That bitch! I say we hang her on cheese's sexual innuendos!

 

[Anthile]

That bitch! I say we hang her on cheese's sexual innuendos!

 

[DesertSmeagle]

No its not that, i get it sexism= bad.. Thats clear to me. But it is the year 2047, is it really that big of a deal anymore? i dont get feminism. it just has to do with being equal. I dont see men arguing that they have the right to wear skirts and dresses. i shold start a male feminist movement. I want the right that a woman has to wear make up and dresses and get cheaper car insurance at age 18

 

[Deleted member 1424]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_women_of_Asia

 

[Trebuchet]

No its not that, i get it sexism= bad.. Thats clear to me. But it is the year 2047, is it really that big of a deal anymore? i dont get feminism. it just has to do with being equal. I dont see men arguing that they have the right to wear skirts and dresses. i shold start a male feminist movement. I want the right that a woman has to wear make up and dresses and get cheaper car insurance at age 18

Actually, it isn't 2047 yet, so if you have a time machine, you might want to keep that quiet.

As for equality, it is clear you haven't seen inequality yet, indicating a sheltered life. There are all kinds of inequalities that favor men, and few that favor women. The studies about why are absolutely fascinating - here is just one.

To pretend to reduce feminism to how people dress, or insurance rates, is highly disingenuous, and I suspect you know better than that. There are definitely differences in the workplace, especially in managerial or technical jobs, where women are seen as less competent simply because of their gender. The studies controlled for other factors. And more beautiful women face more of the obstacles, because femininity is negatively correlated, in people's minds, with authority and intellect. Computer science is still nearly as male-dominated as it was in the 1970s.

These few examples are illustrations. The issue is much larger than that. And it is important to note how far things have changed. Women can vote, own property in their own names, sign contracts, and sue for being discriminated against or harassed. These things were not always true a hundred years ago in the USA. So the progress is good. But study after study shows that there is still gender inequality in terms of opportunity for equally qualified candidates, in income, in social standing, and on and on. Are you saying we should just leave it that way? If you aren't interested, don't make it your fight. But arguing against feminism because you find it tedious is a very strange and flawed argument.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

What really helped was when I realized what my strength was in essay writing. I have a quirky take on basically everything, and frequently got back comments about how no one else had ever approached the paper from my point of view before. I never had any idea what the "normal" point of view was, so I can't say why mine came across that way.

Interesting, I received a similar comment. I had to write an essay on what it meant to be a true friend. What I did was idealize friendship, expose how superficial most people are to each other and express that friendship develops from spending quality time together. The teacher just wanted basic aspects like loyalty, respect etc.

Another help was when I started writing essays in order to get a particular response from the teacher. I would suck up shamelessly, or write exactly the opposite of what they wanted, or throw in some scientific papers I knew they wouldn't understand, or whatever I felt like doing. It was good training in how to gauge an audience, and manipulate a boss, in a safe environment where disagreeing wouldn't get me fired.

As for it being unfair to make INTPs write on boring topics, I would say no. Being able to crank out a bunch of legible text on whatever comes along is actually a useful skill. Any topic is fine for practice, even if it does make things dreary sometimes. The only thing to do is find some perspective that makes it slightly interesting and then get it done.

Sounds like good advice, duly noted.

 

[Fukyo]

So, Smeagle, I couldn't help but notice how you said you 'owned AP English'. Any reason why you're withholding your master essay writing skills from the forum and substituting them for poorly punctuated, structureless incoherency?

 

[DesertSmeagle]

So, Smeagle, I couldn't help but notice how you said you 'owned AP English'. Any reason why you're withholding your master essay writing skills from the forum and substituting them for poorly punctuated, structureless incoherency?

Thats a good question. I really dont know why i type like a retard here. Maybe because its how i type on youtube, and used to type on WoW. Im actually getting better.

 

[Cullwch]

How about letting women just decide what they wish to do, rather than deciding which path is right for them? If a female person wants to become masculine then surely, she should have the right and the opportunity, rather than useless guidance.

In my view feminists are hardly differ from their opposition, ie they are, generally, trying to render their views oppressive through various means, not unlike their opposition. Arbitrary nonsense is exactly that, irrespective of its origins.

I believe my statement above will be subjected to rigorous scrutiny, seeing how assertive I have been in wording it. Can't be helped, I suppose.

 

[Ver]

I agree, a boring subject, so as another poster said, consider spicing it up. How about doing research about how women in other cultures are treated, compare them to how western women were treated, and how feminism has catapulted western women way ahead. Also, compare "super" women. There's about to be a women as the new President of Brazil. The HuffPo states she will surpass Hillary Clinton as the most powerful woman on Earth. Why is that? Those are some ideas. I'm a woman, and the subject bores the crap out of me. Then again I'm thankful as heck I live in the West.

 

[DesertSmeagle]

How about letting women just decide what they wish to do, rather than deciding which path is right for them? If a female person wants to become masculine then surely, she should have the right and the opportunity, rather than useless guidance.

In my view feminists are hardly differ from their opposition, ie they are, generally, trying to render their views oppressive through various means, not unlike their opposition. Arbitrary nonsense is exactly that, irrespective of its origins.

I believe my statement above will be subjected to rigorous scrutiny, seeing how assertive I have been in wording it. Can't be helped, I suppose.

Ya i guess we can let woman act like men. I dont care. I just dont like being forced to write about it, because it is the least thing i am interested on this earth. I would rather write an essay about...rugs..than modern feminism..feminism was cool when woman were getting treated like dirt.

 

[Trebuchet]

Ya i guess we can let woman act like men. I dont care. I just dont like being forced to write about it, because it is the least thing i am interested on this earth. I would rather write an essay about...rugs..than modern feminism..feminism was cool when woman were getting treated like dirt.

Perfect. Plenty of women are still being treated like dirt, including those who weave rugs. Rugs and feminism. You can't get much more quirky as a topic, I suspect, and yet it fits very well.

Check out Muslim Feminism and the Feminist Movement, by Abida Samiuddin and Rashida Khanam. I haven't read it but an exerpt in Google Books says that rug weaving has been a way to get Kazak women working outside the home, causing additional changes and needs. Swept Under the Rug by Kathy M'Closkey is apparently about capitalist culture depriving women Navajo rug weavers of both money and cultural continuity. And here is an article about Berber women in Morocco who are no longer able to make a good living making those wonderful rugs. Daughters in weaving families are looking for other jobs, which seems like a feminist topic to me. And the thing you read about the undercover maid can surely be brought in if you want to talk about cleaning rugs.

There is a lot of your research begun - you are welcome. In two hours of research, you can probably come up with all kinds of stuff your professor doesn't know, and then write it down and decry something. You have your choice of:

1) decrying the evil practices that keep these poor women from reaching their full potential as human beings (a sure winner with a feminist prof), or

2) decrying the narrow-mindedness of people who see this as a gender issue rather than a human one, and call for more compassion based on our common humanity (more risky, but more in keeping with your actual views, so probably easier to write).

Decrying is required, on any social topic like this. Don't overthink it. Your professor probably assigns this every year and has seen it all a million times. Hit your word count, list at least 4 sources, including one that is not on the internet, and end with a passionate paragraph on your opinion. Total time, less than 10 hours.

 

[Amerally]

why you don't want to allow people choose way to express themselve. There always will be group of sweet cute women who Macho loves, big tits, matirnity instinct and purpose of life- make husband and children happy, proud of her life.
For some men strong women is fetish. Pretty in modest way, manipulative, manipulated, such indirect, gossip. Women sometimes mean pure sexuality. We use it and it use us.
There is debate about parity in Poland, in Seym equal amount of men and women. Hormons are great, PMS, we too has testosteron, but percentage changed. I am not strong women, but still looking for. Interested in life. But I don't start family right now. If I lived in Middle Ages I would be a witch, only interesting occupation for women.
I am not strong woment, but still looking for. In this time, in agral teritory I could only born next kid. Sex, sex, sex, sex maybe even without my pleasure.
Polish women won vote in 1918, after getting sovereign country(after 123 years of annexation by Russia, Austria, Prussia) they fight for freedom, they deserve it like everyone deserve for independence.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Down with feminism.

Yay, concise.

 

[Polaris]

You don't have to have a strong opinion or have a passionate view in order to write a good essay. The clue is balance. Get the facts. Discuss.

 

[SpaceYeti]

^True. I wrote an awesome essay about shaving.

 

[Amerally]

Yaeh
Feminists (women) should be cure by rape.
They deserve for something in life.
I love you all.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Well, if we must rape something, I guess I'll volunteer to be the raper. Nobody else is willing to get their hands dirty to get a job done, I find.

 

[Anthile]

Yaeh
Feminists (women) should be cure by rape.
They deserve for something in life.
I love you all.

Well, if we must rape something, I guess I'll volunteer to be the raper. Nobody else is willing to get their hands dirty to get a job done, I find.

I honestly can't tell if you two are joking or not.

 

[Tyria]

I honestly can't tell if you two are joking or not.

Would it really matter?

 

[loveofreason]

With apologies to Trebuchet, who made an effort to legitimise this thread, 'tis ~moved~ to a place that reflects the overall quality.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Why would I joke about rape? Rape is no laughing matter.

 

[DesertSmeagle]

Why would I joke about rape? Rape is no laughing matter.

Ya know, some girls like being raped......

 

[SpaceYeti]

Actually, some girls have rape fantasies, and they probably like playing them out. However, I've never known a girl to actually desire or enjoy real rape.

 

[Jesse]

You know those awkward jokes that go on way too far...

 

[Amerally]

I don't use any kind of joke. It never exist. I mean pure joke, without hurting, humiliating, unmasking, throw guilt, showing lacks, mistakes, showing naivety.
It's only cynical caltulated opinion. I don't need to dig in this taboo this way. Rape is the most humilliating thing. In some way related with women, less with men. Every war- brave man, killed or getting commandation, many women, left in villages, with old men and kids, unprotected, weapon taken by soldier, raped. Everyone is a victim of war, I couldn't deny.

 

[Melllvar]

Oh, so that's what Smeagle got banned for. Things make more sense now.

Actually, some girls have rape fantasies, and they probably like playing them out. However, I've never known a girl to actually desire or enjoy real rape.

Strangely enough, it's actually often cited as one of the top female fantasies by sexologists. If you really want to trust someone who has the job title of "sexologist." I'm pretty sure they're just psychologists who study sex (it's probably a good way to meet grad students). They also clarify that it isn't usually (ever?) violent rapes, but more of "the guy has control" type stuff.

Don't ban me for saying this, it's actually true. Why are you guys talking about rape in the feminism thread anyway?

 

[SpaceYeti]

Oh, so that's what Smeagle got banned for. Things make more sense now.



Strangely enough, it's actually often cited as one of the top female fantasies by sexologists. If you really want to trust someone who has the job title of "sexologist." I'm pretty sure they're just psychologists who study sex (it's probably a good way to meet grad students). They also clarify that it isn't usually (ever?) violent rapes, but more of "the guy has control" type stuff.

Don't ban me for saying this, it's actually true. Why are you guys talking about rape in the feminism thread anyway?

It's true, insofar as I can tell. Chicks dig when you toss them around and tell them what to do. Usually. Sometimes girls get offended when you try to tell them what to do when they're giving you head, saying it's when they have control... those chicks usually suck at giving head. Pun half intended.

I'm not really sure. Because it's funny?

 

[Amerally]

I'm not really sure. Because it's funny?[/QUOTE]
Funny- you are proud of yourself or everyone laught?

There is something in Edward that women want to make love with him...knife.

 

[SpaceYeti]

I'm not really sure. Because it's funny?

Funny- you are proud of yourself or everyone laught?

There is something in Edward that women want to make love with him...knife.

You're fun to talk to because I don't know what you mean. Can I get your phone number?

 

[Amerally]

I don't feel like speaking, I prefer writing, letters. Btw. excuse me my English, my teacher is an idiot.

 

[Amerally]

Could you imagine I haven't a mobile phone?

 

[SpaceYeti]

Are you a chick?

 

[Melllvar]

A little tip for online safety: It's generally considered a bad idea for girls to give their phone numbers to the random stranger they met in a rape conversation.

 

[SpaceYeti]

So she is a girl?!

I'd hit it.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Could you imagine I haven't a mobile phone?

If you are INTP - yes.