Female INTPs

[Riiscup]

So, what kind of music do you ladies listen to. Many of the guys seem to be into heavy metal, what about us?

 

[UptownHarmlessPantyHose]

I like almost everything, really. I tend to get obsessed with a particular genre for awhile and then move on but i'd have to say I've always been split pretty equally between 90s Rap and Alternative.

I LOVE Motown, can't even believe how much good music came out of Detroit during those years. I love classical when I'm trying to get my head straightened out.

I really don't like MOST R&B or Jazz. Other than that I can get into almost anything.

 

[veronica]

I like almost everything, really. I tend to get obsessed with a particular genre for awhile and then move on ...

That's somewhat the same for me. I'm not in much of a music phase at all right now ... I am valuing silence when I'm able to be alone (12 and 15 yo children, husband whose office was moved into our house a couple of years ago). But there is very little music I don't like, save for popular R&B and KennyG type jazz. And pop country. But the "real" versions of those genres, I do like. Oh, not heavy metal, either. But otherwise, anything from gangster rap to Bach. I've been through bluegrass, Zeppelin, 80s alternative, baroque, Hank Williams, Delta blues, southern gospel, John Cage ... yeah, fairly varied (but not terribly deep) interests.

I'll tell you who I can't stand ... besides obvious Mariah Carey/Celine Dion type stuff, I cannot stomach Dave Matthews Band, John Mayer, Coldplay ... gag. Or any screamers. Too old for that.

 

[veronica]

I'm 26 now so I've accepted a lot of things about myself. I don't relate to most women, when I do find a woman that I truly understand we can click instantly and are pretty much inseperable from that point on. What I struggle with most is loneliness because this rarely happens.

I have a much easier time forming friendships with men. This is nice but it's also a downfall because I've gotten romantically involved in varying degrees with most of them men I've gotten very close to, and when the sexual relationship is over (none of them have ended well) I'm not even left with a friend, and I'm back at square one.

I don't have a terrible time making friends and being sociable once I get past the initial anxiety but I do have an awful time finding people that I find truly interesting and as arrogant as that sounds, it's only becoming more true as I get older.

My interests are neither feminine nor masculine, for the most part. I'm interested in thought and ideas, theories and gaining knowledge. I spend much of my time alone but I'm definitely being truthful when I say that I prefer to do that and gain knowledge as opposed to hanging around with people I find vacuous.

Here's my INTP secret: I started university at a school in Texas, and I actually pledged a sorority there. You know how you're supposed to expand your horizons in college, ha ha! Well, it didn't work out so great. I was pretty much on probation for all the social events, too. I eventually transferred away from that school, back to Colorado.

So, it turns out I was definitely not cut out for Texas sorority life. But I met some great individuals there ... only a few, but who woulda thought it? Smart, interesting, all that. (Some more cut out for the collective environment of a sorority than I, though.)

Anyway, not sure what I'm trying to say here. I guess I've lowered my standards at times just to get through certain experiences. It hasn't been all bad, and it doesn't mean they are always lowered -- or maybe I'm just a sellout -- but in some ways, people can surprise you. I like that kind of friend the best, you know? Not always the one who you bond with on first impression (those have always been guys, for me, anyway), but the ones who reveal things over time, underneath whatever exterior they show. And it may not be that they mind-meld with you; one of my favorite discoveries is that people very different from me still can kind of get me ... or at least notice and appreciate the fact that I am who I am without judging. They even find it interesting, or use me as a resource. If they need to cry on someone's shoulder, no, I'm not the one, but if they want a clear eye on something, they'll lay it out for me to analyze. That's affirming. But if I restricted myself to people who were just like me, it wouldn't happen.

The problem I've had recently is that it's hard to fit everything in: doing my parenting and household roles as well as getting enough alone time, plus seeing those valued friends. I don't even have a job (and that's pretty much why ... a job would have to be alone time, for me, right now, as all the stimulation of other activities makes me want to retreat when I'm not doing them).

(On a side note, that's kind of why I've been on this self-evaluation kick recently, because I see when my youngest graduates high school in 5-ish years, I need to have some groundwork laid for a job or something. Or running off to the mountains by myself. Maybe it's the same thing...)

Again, though, it can be tiring sometimes. And at times I do crave my old geeky philosophy major friends, and the engineers and editors at the research board where I worked...

 

[vavel7]

I just googled "INTP female" because recently I've been having trouble making sense of being analytical, logical, introverted - and female. Yes, we are very rare. Right now my main struggle is trying to relate to other women, and deal with ego-centric men. I'm extremely stubborn; if I know that I'm right, I'm right. I'm also extremely messy - I constantly annoy my detail oriented and very extroverted room mates. I HATE sappy chick flicks. I HATE gossip. I HATE drama. I find that men are intimidated by me - I come across as pretty serious and intense, and so they generally ditch me for the bubbly chicks. Pretty much, being an INTP girl sucks.

Yes, yes, yes!! As a teenager I remember that I used to have a problem with this but later I found SOOO MUCH PEACE whene i just said enough it enough and I stopped trying to "look like", "behave" as a woman...I'm 27 and what's important for me is to be myself not a "woman" ( or a "professional" or whatever role society and people need to create in order to feel that is everything is predictable). People talk on and on about gender roles and women etc but they all find weird for a straight woman in my case to not find any pleasure in caring for her partner or not show emotions, be cold, strong, staborn and messy (I couldn't care less by the way...)

I don't know if I ever have kids but this is definetely BY FAR NOT my purpose in life and will never be. If they come it's alright but there must be someone around to be the "woman-mother" and all that this role includes. I want to see things as they are. This role hasn't be engraved on me you know and I'm more than happy with it because otherwise I wouldn't be who I am.

 

[UptownHarmlessPantyHose]

Here's my INTP secret: I started university at a school in Texas, and I actually pledged a sorority there. You know how you're supposed to expand your horizons in college, ha ha! Well, it didn't work out so great. I was pretty much on probation for all the social events, too. I eventually transferred away from that school, back to Colorado.

So, it turns out I was definitely not cut out for Texas sorority life. But I met some great individuals there ... only a few, but who woulda thought it? Smart, interesting, all that. (Some more cut out for the collective environment of a sorority than I, though.)

Anyway, not sure what I'm trying to say here. I guess I've lowered my standards at times just to get through certain experiences. It hasn't been all bad, and it doesn't mean they are always lowered -- or maybe I'm just a sellout -- but in some ways, people can surprise you. I like that kind of friend the best, you know? Not always the one who you bond with on first impression (those have always been guys, for me, anyway), but the ones who reveal things over time, underneath whatever exterior they show. And it may not be that they mind-meld with you; one of my favorite discoveries is that people very different from me still can kind of get me ... or at least notice and appreciate the fact that I am who I am without judging. They even find it interesting, or use me as a resource. If they need to cry on someone's shoulder, no, I'm not the one, but if they want a clear eye on something, they'll lay it out for me to analyze. That's affirming. But if I restricted myself to people who were just like me, it wouldn't happen.

The problem I've had recently is that it's hard to fit everything in: doing my parenting and household roles as well as getting enough alone time, plus seeing those valued friends. I don't even have a job (and that's pretty much why ... a job would have to be alone time, for me, right now, as all the stimulation of other activities makes me want to retreat when I'm not doing them).

(On a side note, that's kind of why I've been on this self-evaluation kick recently, because I see when my youngest graduates high school in 5-ish years, I need to have some groundwork laid for a job or something. Or running off to the mountains by myself. Maybe it's the same thing...)

Again, though, it can be tiring sometimes. And at times I do crave my old geeky philosophy major friends, and the engineers and editors at the research board where I worked...

I have been chameleon like in the past and picked up all sorts of friends that weren't like myself, and I definitely grew as a person.

The trouble is that while i am naturally chameleon-like in some ways and especially when it comes to dealing with people, I always have to use a facade and sort of become the kind of person I'm dealing with or become what I think is the best thing to be depending on the situation. It isn't that I don't want to be myself, it's just that different qualities of "myself" come out around different crowds and I really struggle with depersonalization in a lot of areas of life. I can easily become someone that my close friends and family aren't used to seeing, and furthermore, NOT using the facades causes me severe social anxiety. If I just try to be "myself" around people, I become nothing.

I made the foolish decision of cutting most of the people I knew out of my life after a traumatic experience(losing someone very close in a very unexpected way) a few years ago. I was just unable to continue with perpetuating the facade at that point. I feel much better now and am very close to being what I was before the experience, although a bit wiser and a bit more understanding, I did gain that. I wish I could say that cutting all of those people out made me terribly sad but it really didn't, even now I don't miss them so much, but I do sometimes miss the superficial aspects.

As I'm coming out of my stagnation I'm starting to out on a limb again ad try to hang around types that aren't like myself if they seem to like me. It really isn't as satisfying as it used to be. I tend to get sucked in by my interests and avoid people completely much of the time. I have a difficult time knowing when others DO *get* me, if I don't feel that I get them. I think I just have to have a REALLY intense connection to know when I'm clicking with someone.

Nevertheless, I know it's worth it to put in the effort and I know that I 'll find some people that really get me eventually so I continue going through the motions. I do think it's great to be understood and liked by people who are the opposite of you or just different in many areas but sometimes I just wish they'd TELL me when they like me LOL. I do have somewhat of a big ego and I like it to be stroked once in awhile, but honestly I just have an awful time gauging how others feel about me.

 

[LabyrinthMind]

I don't know if I ever have kids but this is definetely BY FAR NOT my purpose in life and will never be. If they come it's alright but there must be someone around to be the "woman-mother" and all that this role includes. I want to see things as they are. This role hasn't be engraved on me you know and I'm more than happy with it because otherwise I wouldn't be who I am.

I'm mother of a nine-year-old girl. It wasn't something I wanted or planned, but it happened and I was deeply in love with her father and decided to give it a try. However, I often find parenting tiresome and boring and feel much happier reading a book or surfing the net than playing with my daughter. It's easier now that she's older and we can talk and have fun together, and I suppose it can only get better with time.
I never for one second considered giving up paid work and staying at home, I know too well I would go crazy that way.
All this may sound selfish but that's just the way I am. What is particularly annoying for me is people urging me to have more children and even openly expressing pity for my daughter as the only child. I don't feel like I should apologize to anybody for wanting to do other things with my life than raising kids and respect anybody's choice to be or not be a parent.

 

[Ermine]

So, what kind of music do you ladies listen to. Many of the guys seem to be into heavy metal, what about us?

Also into metal, particularly Metallica, progressive metal, and industrial/experimental metal. Not too into screaming vocals, though there are exceptions.

But that's one facet of many. I also like classical (particularly romantic and modern), indie pop (the likes of Regina Spector, Imogen Heap, etc), classic rock, experimental, some ethnic music (middle eastern and celtic particularly), alternative rock when I'm in the right mood, vocal and piano jazz... I'm all over the place.

 

[Jennywocky]

Also into metal, particularly Metallica, progressive metal, and industrial/experimental metal. Not too into screaming vocals, though there are exceptions. ... I also like classical (particularly romantic and modern), indie pop (the likes of Regina Spector, Imogen Heap, etc), classic rock, experimental, some ethnic music (middle eastern and celtic particularly), alternative rock when I'm in the right mood, vocal and piano jazz... I'm all over the place.

That's pretty much where I'm at too. The only thing I don't like is sloppy or talentless music. I even hung out at a club the other weekend and the groups there were bluegrass. I can't say that's one of my "favorite" genres... but the one group was boring, and the other one very talented musically.

I do find that with my music I'm less about the purely intellectual aspect of the lyrics and more about the evocative elements of the music and the intuitive leanings of the lyrics. I want to be moved in some way by music and have it resonate in me on an "ambiance" level.

Jenny, yes it is freeing in a way when you stop thinking things to death and just dive in. It is scary too. I also wish I didn't waste so many years holding myself back. I still have a ways to go, but I am really proud of myself thus far.

I remember in my teens years how hard I was on myself for all my perceived failures to rise above my humanity and my feelings and be perfect.

Nowadays I have a similar feeling to what you have described. I can be sad that it took me so long to get to where I have (and have so far to go sometimes) but realistically I know I could not have gotten here quicker, and I see how many other people never challenge themselves outside their comfort zone, and I know how hard it was... so I try to allow myself to feel pride over what I have accomplished. Sometimes it feels weird or self-indulgent, even if I know it is not.

I'm glad you said that you feel sadness for your kids growing up. It reminds me to enjoy my kids while they are young. Secretly, I thought I couldn't wait for them to become teenagers so they would have their own lives and I could get back to mine. But you are right, I should relish this because it doesn't last long. I think the 2 year old is the one. By us being the only girls in the house, she thinks I'm her playmate and should engage her 100% of the time. It's exhausting, but it is fun.

I still remember when my fourteen-year-old used to run across the backyard when he was 3-4 years old screaming "COME 'ERE LI'L BIRDIE!" trying to get all the birds to play with him and of course they would all freak out and fly off in a big crowd and he would run after them.

Now he wants to be out with his friends and talk on the phone/iPod all the time. He's still cool... but different.

Except for the cake in the hair thing. I have pictures of him when he was two with icing all over his body at his birthday meal, and this past year at his party with his friends, they got into a cupcake war and he came out of it with icing all over his face and hair.

Some things change; other things do not.

I think at 26, I probably sounded alot like you do, but I was lonely and didn't like lonely so resolved to change. All that being said, I prefer to be alone. But I would like to have people that I enjoy to turn to when I want company. I don't have much of a problem being sociable enough these days, but I certainly continue to find it hard to make real friends.

I find I have their weird push-pull with other people. I love and hate being alone; I hate and love being around others. Sometimes life gets me down and I just want out. Last week I was obsessing longingly about just disappearing to a cabin in the northern woods, where I could live by myself, with a nice fire in the fireplace, writing and reading and doing chores to take care of myself, and not have to be bothered with human culture and modern pressures at all. Just getting back to living simply and without having to navigate all these crazy relational waters anymore. But I know I'd also eventually feel alone, even if I enjoy it in a lot of ways. There's always been this intense desire to find at least one person who truly understands and who I could be with without things being so difficult.

 

[veronica]

I find I have their weird push-pull with other people. I love and hate being alone; I hate and love being around others. Sometimes life gets me down and I just want out. Last week I was obsessing longingly about just disappearing to a cabin in the northern woods, where I could live by myself, with a nice fire in the fireplace, writing and reading and doing chores to take care of myself, and not have to be bothered with human culture and modern pressures at all. Just getting back to living simply and without having to navigate all these crazy relational waters anymore. But I know I'd also eventually feel alone, even if I enjoy it in a lot of ways. There's always been this intense desire to find at least one person who truly understands and who I could be with without things being so difficult.

I know INTPs have been described as chameleon-like, and I think some of us in this thread have indicated that this is so ... It's somewhat natural, I guess, according to typology, but all of us have stated that it's tiring, as well. I wonder, do INTP guys feel this same pressure, or maybe fatigue, or is it more pronounced for INTP women, due to societal expectations?

 

[Jennywocky]

I don't know.

I think women are naturally more relational by nature AND nurture in Western culture. I mean, like it or not, bio-females run on a hormonal and physical makeup designed to nurture offspring, even if there is a wide variation in personality among all females (where some might not nearly be as nurturing as others in the overt senses).

I think it's why we see those older, single "cat ladies" and "dog ladies" too. There's this desire that seems to be in women to have a companion to connect with or dote on, and if they can't find a human to share their lives with, they'll get an animal to fill that role; single guys are far more likely to live alone, from observation, I think.

I do see a bunch of younger INTP males over at INTPc complain about being alone in the world, but I can't tell if it is the same. They badly just want a girlfriend, and that's something a lot of guys complain about it regardless of type. I mean, I'm fully capable of living alone... but it would just be really nice to have someone there who I could depend on and relate too... if it was someone I could trust to be myself around rather than just playing more roles.

 

[UptownHarmlessPantyHose]

I don't know.

I think women are naturally more relational by nature AND nurture in Western culture. I mean, like it or not, bio-females run on a hormonal and physical makeup designed to nurture offspring, even if there is a wide variation in personality among all females (where some might not nearly be as nurturing as others in the overt senses).

I think it's why we see those older, single "cat ladies" and "dog ladies" too. There's this desire that seems to be in women to have a companion to connect with or dote on, and if they can't find a human to share their lives with, they'll get an animal to fill that role; single guys are far more likely to live alone, from observation, I think.

I do see a bunch of younger INTP males over at INTPc complain about being alone in the world, but I can't tell if it is the same. They badly just want a girlfriend, and that's something a lot of guys complain about it regardless of type. I mean, I'm fully capable of living alone... but it would just be really nice to have someone there who I could depend on and relate too... if it was someone I could trust to be myself around rather than just playing more roles.

I think that I am truly like a man, then.

I honestly don't crave companionship. I go selectively mute at times when I want to focus on my interests and I actually enjoy not speaking and feeling no real emotions, just taking in a constant flow of information.

The only time I start to feel like I really SHOULD talk to people is when I know that I need them around for affection/sex, but I just don't want a relationship, I can't pay that much attention to people.

I know that sounds incredibly arrogant but I really do wonder how many other women feel this way.

 

[Causeless]

After reading this thread, it no longer seems strange that I'm unbearably attracted to females that look like 14 year old boys.

 

[Jennywocky]

I think that I am truly like a man, then.

Like I said, the range is very broad.

If you're XX genetically and have female biology and you identify as female, then you can call yourself a woman by any reasonable standard, can't you?

I honestly don't crave companionship. I go selectively mute at times when I want to focus on my interests and I actually enjoy not speaking and feeling no real emotions, just taking in a constant flow of information.

The only time I start to feel like I really SHOULD talk to people is when I know that I need them around for affection/sex, but I just don't want a relationship, I can't pay that much attention to people.

I know that sounds incredibly arrogant but I really do wonder how many other women feel this way.

No idea.

But it's not a situation I really tie to gender. You just sound like you're at one end of the full range of the human spectrum in terms of what desire you have to actually make a certain level of personal connection with others. Like an extreme self-preservationist (from Enneagram instinctive subtypes/variants) or an extreme Solitary type from Oldham's personality categories.

 

[veronica]

I don't know.

I think women are naturally more relational by nature AND nurture in Western culture. I mean, like it or not, bio-females run on a hormonal and physical makeup designed to nurture offspring, even if there is a wide variation in personality among all females (where some might not nearly be as nurturing as others in the overt senses).

Definitely there are hormonal differences. I am thankful for them, because without the hormones, I'm not sure I could have been a mother at all. And I can tell you the only time in my life that I felt any sort of "oneness" with women in the world (as opposed to feeling out of the loop): it was the day after I got home from having my first baby, after 28 hr of labor and a million stitches in my butt, and I was in my sitz bath. I felt this overwhelming feeling of female/motherhood unity, shared experience, girl power, whatever. It lasted about 4 minutes. Never came back.

I think it's why we see those older, single "cat ladies" and "dog ladies" too. There's this desire that seems to be in women to have a companion to connect with or dote on, and if they can't find a human to share their lives with, they'll get an animal to fill that role; single guys are far more likely to live alone, from observation, I think.

Hmmm, I don't see this, in my experience ... but because I've been in the married world since I was 24, I realize my experiences are narrowed. But many women I know who have either divorced or been widowed do continue to live alone (by choice), whereas it seems the men can't bear to be alone and will remarry (or find some sort of companionship) immediately. Maybe an older generation of men just wasn't accustomed to having to take care of themselves, whereas today's more equitable distribution of work makes it easier for the younger generation of guys to survive on their own. But so many women ... they've done it already -- raised the family, taken care of the guy -- and they are ready to be alone.

But who knows.

I do see a bunch of younger INTP males over at INTPc complain about being alone in the world, but I can't tell if it is the same. They badly just want a girlfriend, and that's something a lot of guys complain about it regardless of type. I mean, I'm fully capable of living alone... but it would just be really nice to have someone there who I could depend on and relate too... if it was someone I could trust to be myself around rather than just playing more roles.

Yeah, and that's the key. I can pretty much be myself, but I still feel guilty about it at times.

 

[Jennywocky]

Hmmm, I don't see this, in my experience ... but because I've been in the married world since I was 24, I realize my experiences are narrowed. But many women I know who have either divorced or been widowed do continue to live alone (by choice), whereas it seems the men can't bear to be alone and will remarry (or find some sort of companionship) immediately. Maybe an older generation of men just wasn't accustomed to having to take care of themselves, whereas today's more equitable distribution of work makes it easier for the younger generation of guys to survive on their own. But so many women ... they've done it already -- raised the family, taken care of the guy -- and they are ready to be alone.

Yeah. I haven't run across those yet. I knew a lot of animal ladies though.

But I just switched jobs a few months ago, into a very technical environment, and over half the staff are women. (yee-haw!)

So I'm betting it will help me get views of other types of people in the world. Although most of the younger gals are either single or building a family (with kids) right now. I'm enjoying getting to know some of the older women, since they're pretty tough-minded and rational types.

 

[Riiscup]

I honestly don't crave companionship. I go selectively mute at times when I want to focus on my interests and I actually enjoy not speaking and feeling no real emotions, just taking in a constant flow of information.

The only time I start to feel like I really SHOULD talk to people is when I know that I need them around for affection/sex, but I just don't want a relationship, I can't pay that much attention to people.

I know that sounds incredibly arrogant but I really do wonder how many other women feel this way.

You know Uptown, I have to say that I actually feel this same way sometimes. It sounds so bad the way you say it, but I feel like this sometimes. I don't get the feeling that I should talk to people though, I find that I actually want to talk to people more and more these days. Other people and the way they view the world is quite interesting actually and as you grow to know someone, it is kind of like reading a good book that keeps going and going. I have alot of interest in others and how they get through this life. I think I was lucky to find my SO. He let me be me, however crazy that was, without any hassle. He taught me how to be more social and the benefits of being more social simply by allowing me to observe him and how he does things without making me feel bad for who I was. Even though he makes me sick, we have been together a long time and because I am the way I am, it feels like we are still learning each other and it keeps me interested. I like it. Besides, it takes care of the affection/sex thing without an incredible amount of spent energy on my part.

I actually started working in a new area about 4 years ago that is all women, all of which are older than me. I have never placed myself in a position where I was constantly in the company of women, but this job forces this situation upon me and I have to say, I like it. Surprisingly we get along and, boy, do they have some great stories to tell. Granted, none of these women are super feminine, bubble gummy types. I get them and am finding that some other women aren't so bad after all.

I think I could be extremely solitary if allowed to because I enjoy me. People can never understand this about me. But having children and a partner forces me not to indulge in this feeling and I am not totally unhappy about this. I feel like I am living -for real. Not just sitting back observing and being selfishly consumed with me and my wants.

I don't know.

I once was chameleon like, but I am learning this is a waste of time and energy. I try to be me all the time now. If folks like me then good, if not, whatever -next. It is extremely satisfying to live this way. Every one won't like you and that is okay. I have learned that some "friends are for seasons, and others (few) are for lifetimes and I continue on not looking for either and just letting them present themselves however they may.

I am rambling here. Sorry I have been gone so long. I have it bad where I jump from interest to interest and kind of neglect somethings for awhile, even when I enjoy them, to briefly pursue something else. I am glad to see that the female INTP thread is still going though. Quite glad, in fact, and I am constantly popping in and out just not always feeling like writing anything.

As far as music. I like many different genres, including some popular music, reggae and world music. The R&B music I listen to is called Neo Soul I think, but that is just another genre they made up because they didn't know what else to call it. I love alternative music because it usually includes alot of different original stuff that people don't know how to categorize. I love hearing real instruments in music and thus love some jazz and classical music. Once I get past the instruments, I love good lyrics that have a thought provoking message or a tale that I can relate to. My favorite artist for the last decade and a half has been Meshell N'degeocello. I love her and I don't know what her genre is supposed to be. Mostly I like originality.

 

[Jennywocky]

You know Uptown, I have to say that I actually feel this same way sometimes. It sounds so bad the way you say it, but I feel like this sometimes. I don't get the feeling that I should talk to people though, I find that I actually want to talk to people more and more these days. Other people and the way they view the world is quite interesting actually and as you grow to know someone, it is kind of like reading a good book that keeps going and going. I have alot of interest in others and how they get through this life....

... I have never placed myself in a position where I was constantly in the company of women, but this job forces this situation upon me and I have to say, I like it. Surprisingly we get along and, boy, do they have some great stories to tell. Granted, none of these women are super feminine, bubble gummy types. I get them and am finding that some other women aren't so bad after all.

I think I could be extremely solitary if allowed to because I enjoy me. People can never understand this about me. But having children and a partner forces me not to indulge in this feeling and I am not totally unhappy about this. I feel like I am living -for real. Not just sitting back observing and being selfishly consumed with me and my wants.

I once was chameleon like, but I am learning this is a waste of time and energy. I try to be me all the time now. If folks like me then good, if not, whatever -next. It is extremely satisfying to live this way. Every one won't like you and that is okay. I have learned that some "friends are for seasons, and others (few) are for lifetimes and I continue on not looking for either and just letting them present themselves however they may.

I am rambling here. Sorry I have been gone so long. I have it bad where I jump from interest to interest and kind of neglect somethings for awhile, even when I enjoy them, to briefly pursue something else.

Quoted all the parts I really identify with.

Yeah, I don't chameleon as much either. I do it well, but now it's a conscious thing when I do it; and I put myself out there. I was so worried about dealing with crap if I didn't blend before, or just being rejected out of hand; but at this point I have a lot of confidence in myself, and self-respect, and I accept that not everyone will like me... but not living as "me" isn't worth it.

It makes me appreciate the real friends I have even more.

I also actually enjoy people a lot more now too, but it was an acquired taste. I learn from them and become more well-rounded, and I love looking at people's personal narratives and life scripts. It teaches me about what it means to be human, of which my identity only comprises a piece of the pie.

And of course, I think it's a big deal for an INTP / enneagram Five to actually move out of the observer position and engage life directly. We might think detached theory is "truth" but there's a lot of stuff we can't truly understand (especially in the nuances) unless we're living it, and knowledge is also gained when we are giving rather than just taking/observing.

 

[Trebuchet]

I actually started working in a new area about 4 years ago that is all women, all of which are older than me. I have never placed myself in a position where I was constantly in the company of women, but this job forces this situation upon me and I have to say, I like it. Surprisingly we get along and, boy, do they have some great stories to tell. Granted, none of these women are super feminine, bubble gummy types. I get them and am finding that some other women aren't so bad after all.

That is neat. I have worked in an all-female environment, and I hated it. They all talked about how much they hated their boyfriends/husbands, talked forever about makeup and nails, gossiped all day, traded snide comments about how other people looked, and generally were mean. They treated me like a total outsider because I don't care for gossip. One man joined our group for a while, and it made a huge difference, though it was back to normal when he left.

I am glad you found such a congenial environment, though, and I am also delighted to know such exists.

 

[Kristi]

I never felt like I could truly relate to most females. Of the female friends I have made, most of them were very short-lived, almost superficial, relationships. In this way, most of my friends have been male. This I believe is (in part) due to harboring "so-called" daddy issues that quite recently surfaced in my conscious mind. However, I think being able to relate to men is MOSTLY due to being an INTP. This entry doesn't really have a purpose. I guess I just wanted to share my thoughts, arguments, annoyances, etc with my fellow personality types. Responses and feedback are warmly invited because most of this post will most likely come off as pretty cold :-p

I think being a female INTP gives you the greatest strength. A lot of you mentioned not taking kindly to people that entertain in mindless small talk and babble. That is at the top of my list of pet peeves. I can't stand when you start a new job or try to mind your own business while having a drink or eating a meal, and someone INSISTS on playing 20 questions and trying to get your life story. This is why I find this to be a problem and my thoughts go a little something like this: We are perfect strangers. I have no idea who the hell you are. So on what planet do you think I'm going to openly share my story and thoughts with you? Their use of small talk reveals to me that they are incapable of being able to sit comfortably in their own minds. I feel like a lot of people are leeches, incapable of creating their own energy so they have to feed off of others. I value silence.

To take an example from one of my favorite films, Pulp Fiction. I think Uma Thurman's character (Mia Wallace) is an INTP. When she and John Travolta are eating dinner, she looks at him after a long silence and says, "Don't you just love when two adults can comfortably share silence? People just don't know when to shut the f*&% up." That is very profound in my opinion. If you're going to talk, spew something out that isn't bullshit and actually worth my time. Because if you're not gonna have the audacity to say something interesting or thought-provoking, then I will not lend you my ears or attention. After all, what's the point in talking to someone that isn't listening?

Another thing I hate is when people become obsessed with trying to squeeze (or even manipulate) a certain reaction out of you. It's like feeding off of other people's emotions or reactions gives them some sort of sick satisfaction. Does that resonate with any of you? Quick example, when people draw unnecessary attention to themselves or fish for compliments out of pure narcissism. And guys, you are JUST as guilty of doing this as girls are, just in a more subtle and masculine way :-p

So, I guess my biggest obstacle in dealing with my INTP nature is learning how to deal with people's bullshit in a more kind and productive way. Bleh. I guess when I see people reveling in the meaningless, I don't see them as supremely happy. And I believe just about everyone can be truly happy as long as you master your own mind.

Okay, enough smack talking. Now don't get me wrong, I am likely one of the most sarcastic people you will ever know, haha, and I take great joy in goofing around and being silly with people (usually those i'm close to, but also those I don't know very well). The key in my mind is to never take yourself too seriously. I can't relate to people that create their own drama because they have misconceived expectations of themselves and their surroundings.

 

[~~~]

I never felt like I could truly relate to most females. Of the female friends I have made, most of them were very short-lived, almost superficial, relationships. In this way, most of my friends have been male.

Some would say there is an upside to this though.

 

[ApostateAbe]

Spoiler

I never felt like I could truly relate to most females. Of the female friends I have made, most of them were very short-lived, almost superficial, relationships. In this way, most of my friends have been male. This I believe is (in part) due to harboring "so-called" daddy issues that quite recently surfaced in my conscious mind. However, I think being able to relate to men is MOSTLY due to being an INTP. This entry doesn't really have a purpose. I guess I just wanted to share my thoughts, arguments, annoyances, etc with my fellow personality types. Responses and feedback are warmly invited because most of this post will most likely come off as pretty cold :-p

I think being a female INTP gives you the greatest strength. A lot of you mentioned not taking kindly to people that entertain in mindless small talk and babble. That is at the top of my list of pet peeves. I can't stand when you start a new job or try to mind your own business while having a drink or eating a meal, and someone INSISTS on playing 20 questions and trying to get your life story. This is why I find this to be a problem and my thoughts go a little something like this: We are perfect strangers. I have no idea who the hell you are. So on what planet do you think I'm going to openly share my story and thoughts with you? Their use of small talk reveals to me that they are incapable of being able to sit comfortably in their own minds. I feel like a lot of people are leeches, incapable of creating their own energy so they have to feed off of others. I value silence.

To take an example from one of my favorite films, Pulp Fiction. I think Uma Thurman's character (Mia Wallace) is an INTP. When she and John Travolta are eating dinner, she looks at him after a long silence and says, "Don't you just love when two adults can comfortably share silence? People just don't know when to shut the f*&% up." That is very profound in my opinion. If you're going to talk, spew something out that isn't bullshit and actually worth my time. Because if you're not gonna have the audacity to say something interesting or thought-provoking, then I will not lend you my ears or attention. After all, what's the point in talking to someone that isn't listening?

Another thing I hate is when people become obsessed with trying to squeeze (or even manipulate) a certain reaction out of you. It's like feeding off of other people's emotions or reactions gives them some sort of sick satisfaction. Does that resonate with any of you? Quick example, when people draw unnecessary attention to themselves or fish for compliments out of pure narcissism. And guys, you are JUST as guilty of doing this as girls are, just in a more subtle and masculine way :-p

So, I guess my biggest obstacle in dealing with my INTP nature is learning how to deal with people's bullshit in a more kind and productive way. Bleh. I guess when I see people reveling in the meaningless, I don't see them as supremely happy. And I believe just about everyone can be truly happy as long as you master your own mind.

Okay, enough smack talking. Now don't get me wrong, I am likely one of the most sarcastic people you will ever know, haha, and I take great joy in goofing around and being silly with people (usually those i'm close to, but also those I don't know very well). The key in my mind is to never take yourself too seriously. I can't relate to people that create their own drama because they have misconceived expectations of themselves and their surroundings.

Welcome to the forum. Helluva first post. Do you think maybe people give you too much love, and you are spoiled by your beauty? Maybe you would be more appreciative of blunt straight talk?

 

[catatonic]

hello kristi, welcome.

i'm an emo female INTP.
ye, superficial flattery, superficial kindness, and anything that superficial is horrible and disgusting.
it's all kaput/kaputt!

but we have to deal with that to socialize with another human.
sigh

 

[Jennywocky]

I can't stand when you start a new job or try to mind your own business while having a drink or eating a meal, and someone INSISTS on playing 20 questions and trying to get your life story. This is why I find this to be a problem and my thoughts go a little something like this: We are perfect strangers. I have no idea who the hell you are. So on what planet do you think I'm going to openly share my story and thoughts with you? Their use of small talk reveals to me that they are incapable of being able to sit comfortably in their own minds. I feel like a lot of people are leeches, incapable of creating their own energy so they have to feed off of others. I value silence.

That's a variation of INTP. I think the variants from enneagram are actually more active here -- SeXual, Self-Preservation, Social. You sound very much like an Self-Preservationist INTP.

I actually LIKE it when someone wants to "get real" with me, I like sharing information back and forth, I don't need nor like to lock everyone out and am usually open... however, where I would align with you here is if the stuff being shared is (1) vapid or trivial and (2) does veer into areas they don't yet have the privilege to ask about. It's funny, I can be pretty open about some things that people consider "personal" but not others.

To take an example from one of my favorite films, Pulp Fiction. I think Uma Thurman's character (Mia Wallace) is an INTP. When she and John Travolta are eating dinner, she looks at him after a long silence and says, "Don't you just love when two adults can comfortably share silence? People just don't know when to shut the f*&% up." That is very profound in my opinion.

Great line. Nothing is more tedious to me than someone who has to say everything outside of their own brain, especially when 95% of it is white noise.

So, I guess my biggest obstacle in dealing with my INTP nature is learning how to deal with people's bullshit in a more kind and productive way. Bleh.

If you want it bad enough, you'll figure it out. I had no choice -- I was married to an ISFJ for years and had children, so I felt like I needed to stretch and make it work. (Much of my family were traditional S types as well.) I'm glad now I did; however, it hurt like hell, I'm glad I'm done with that type of stretching to that degree.

The key in my mind is to never take yourself too seriously. I can't relate to people that create their own drama because they have misconceived expectations of themselves and their surroundings.

I find I have a lot of seriousness in my humor, and a lot of humor in my seriousness -- I can laugh at the craziest, darkest things even while feeling profoundly impacted by them. of course, the perpetual thespians (AKA "drama creators") drive me batty; they need to get a real life.

 

[Riiscup]

I thought this thread was dead and gone. I haven't been to this forum in ages. But, I'm glad someone dug it up. I am mostly interested in the female INTP experience and had fun reading through the thread. Jenny, I wonder if I were to meet you, if we'd be friends or if we would repel because a lot of what you write is in line with how I think.

Kristi, just be you. If people try to get to know you and you are uncomfortable with it, don't engage, but don't be rude about it. Try not to knock them for being what you view as probably dumb or mindless and just accept them how they are and either become acquainted with them, or don't become acquainted. But let it be because you can't relate to them, not because they are mindless or, whatever. The way they are is not necessarily bad, it's just not engaging to you. A lot of times I don"t realize when I"m being rude because I just say what I think about a situation and its not to hurt anyone or make them feel less of a person, but its just my view on things- no emotion attached. But I have come to realize that everyone doesn't think the way that I do. They tend to perceive everything through an emotion filter all the time, I am able to perceive and process situations without emotion. I think I see things just the way they are, period. But I am sure I have some sort of filter too that I am not aware of.

I am working on my approach. I try not to be so serious all the time with every person I encounter. I wouldn't want anyone to make me feel like and idiot, so I try to see people for how they are and respond in a way they can understand taking into account they have emotion filters. If someone asks me questions about matters that I don't feel comfortable talking to them about, I blow over the question and give it right back to gauge their intent. I am good at picking people's brains without giving up too much of myself. I then determine if the person is someone I wouldn't mind getting to know or if they are someone that I want to keep at arms length and proceed from there. I find that many people are nervous about approaching me with the 20 questions routine anyway simply because of the way I am. In a situation like work though, it can be alienating not getting to REALLY know the people you work with because they are getting to know each other and there you are- the alien. Because I like observing, I want to be in the mix at least a little bit because for me its a learning experience. I think my biggest issue as an INTP, is being able to socialize properly without turning people off. If I care whether I turn a certain group of people off, like my family, or co-workers (co-workers because I HAVE to deal with them- family because I love them and want to deal with them) then I temper myself. If I don't care, then it goes back to gauging people"s intent and going from there.

Maybe those reveling people are happy. Did you ever consider that? Maybe that is happy by their definition. Above all else, i want people to be happy with themselves, so if that is happy for them, so be it. If their happy if forcefully disrupting my happy then we need to get it straight, but if it isn't, let them be and i will stay out of their way. I can't make them change. I can't make them see things the way I do, can I? Who's to say my happy would be happy for them.

I love the Pulp Fiction quote by the way. I used to love that movie too. The funny thing about the quote to me is that even if I am sharing silence with another adult, really for me, it is not silent because my mind is moving a thousand miles a minute. I enjoy the silence between us because I can fully listen and ponder what's going on in my mind better that way. Many times it more interesting anyway!