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Feelings vs. Logical Decisions

ObliviousGenius

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Have any of you ever seen the show "American Idol" or any other audition type show? Every time I see some idiotic audition of a person that has NO talent whatsoever and their families back stage watching on, I think "Why won't the families say something?" The answer is because they think with feelings and emotions. Emotions say "Oh no I can't break his heart with the truth so I'll let him embarrass himself on national TV. I for one consider our lack of emotions to be a gift. Some of the greatest leaders and leaders who I consider credible are the ones who used logic over feelings. The person who uses feelings is the person that wins the lottery and gives money to every family member that asks for it. I fully understand that truth can hurt sometimes but imo, what's false/omitted can hurt even more. Please note that I am not a robot whatsoever and I also do not mean to offend any "F" types in this forum. What would you have done?
 

shoeless

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how about a combination of both? gentle critique? supportive, non-ego-crushing advice?
and what's wrong with giving money to your family if you just won the lottery? i really would think there'd be more than enough to go around. big difference between being logical and being kind of douchey. applies on both counts.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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Logic = Ego-centric/rational

Feeling = Agreeable/group-valuing
 

Minuend

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Sorry to burst your bubble there, sonny, but emotions influence everyone's actions. Even this thread of yours is driven by irritation.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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Sorry to burst your bubble there, sonny, but emotions influence everyone's actions. Even this thread of yours is driven by irritation.

No one implied that Feelers were more emotional (in essence), rather that they use emotional logic as a primary means of judgment, and only secondarily turn to consequential logic.

By the fundamentals of Type theory, a Feeler has conscious first level Feeling and unconscious first level Thinking. Thus on the first level of judgement, the Feeler only sees Feeling data which is a kind of group/universal check. Only on the second level of checking does it apply Thinking, but this must then be with respect to the Feeling data. So we see then that even the most logical of Feelers is very distinct from any Thinker, however at many high levels of functioning, Feeling data and Thinking data are able to converge.

On the third level, social data integration is performed, and on the fourth level, everything is drawn back to the level of the group (note the existence of two distinct groups).
 

Minuend

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I never implied that anyone implied that Feelers were more emotional. I don't really like that term because it's misleading. Not all "feelers" have Fi or Fe as their highest function. Calling them "feelers" is very inaccurate. If I remember correctly, Ted Bundy was an INFJ. Not someone you'd accuse of worrying about people's feelings.

It's very possible for the "feeler" to be more logic based than a "thinker". The INFJ a famous example of someone who can be very good with their Ti and thus be "logical". It's possible to recognize what's value based and disregard it because it's not the best thing to do in that situation. Not that "value based" is a good word either. As in the original example, many would have told this individual of their non talent because of their values. It's not about feeling vs thinking, it's about fear of hurting someone's feelings, or rather the consequences of it. Most are reluctant to put themselves in that position, most do not respond well to criticism. Even "thinkers".

There is no distinct line between logic and feeling. They are intertwined, some don't realize it, even though it's obvious. Just start to think about what and when one feel. Some can be higher prioritized or preferred, but in the end one is never really in control.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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T vs F is sort of like ego vs super-ego.

Everyone has second level and third level functioning of these, however only half have first level of each, and have only one of these.

Ultimately, Fs will flourish where the infomation given is F-like, Ts will flourish where the information is T-like. Information which is both is ideal.
 

SpaceYeti

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"Feelings vs Logic" is a fallacy. Yes, there are people who use their feelings too much, just as there are people who might be said to use logic too much (ignoring your feelings will, ultimately, lead to unhappiness). Logic is a method of fact-finding and decision making. Your emotions are facts, so if you refuse to include them in your logical decisions, you're making the same kind of mistake as the people who base their decisions on feelings. I know there are certain things I need in order to be happy, so I make my decisions with those emotions in mind. It took me a while to learn this, but it's important. Perfect logic does not exclude feelings, it simply keeps them in proportion.
 

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Schadenfreude is pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others. i love your frustration. you're assuming the parents have feelings about their kids in the first place as opposed to thinking more about themselves being famous to get on tv. yeah, i'm pretty cynical.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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"Feelings vs Logic" is a fallacy. Yes, there are people who use their feelings too much, just as there are people who might be said to use logic too much (ignoring your feelings will, ultimately, lead to unhappiness). Logic is a method of fact-finding and decision making. Your emotions are facts, so if you refuse to include them in your logical decisions, you're making the same kind of mistake as the people who base their decisions on feelings. I know there are certain things I need in order to be happy, so I make my decisions with those emotions in mind. It took me a while to learn this, but it's important. Perfect logic does not exclude feelings, it simply keeps them in proportion.

It's not feeling vs logic per se, it's feelings embedded in a logical structure, or logic embedded in a feeling based structure.
 

digital angel

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Have any of you ever seen the show "American Idol" or any other audition type show? Every time I see some idiotic audition of a person that has NO talent whatsoever and their families back stage watching on, I think "Why won't the families say something?" The answer is because they think with feelings and emotions. Emotions say "Oh no I can't break his heart with the truth so I'll let him embarrass himself on national TV. I for one consider our lack of emotions to be a gift. Some of the greatest leaders and leaders who I consider credible are the ones who used logic over feelings. The person who uses feelings is the person that wins the lottery and gives money to every family member that asks for it. I fully understand that truth can hurt sometimes but imo, what's false/omitted can hurt even more. Please note that I am not a robot whatsoever and I also do not mean to offend any "F" types in this forum. What would you have done?

No, I don't watch American Idol. As a general matter, I don't watch TV and don't like it.

I understand what you're trying to say. However, your critique is the result of how you feel. Further, INTPs are not without emotion. Rather, emotion is our least developed function. As a result, we can over do it or under do it.

INTPs have a natural knack for certain things like logic, language and so on. In fact, you could say that we love engineering, arguing, math, science, philosophy and so on.
 

SpaceYeti

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It's not feeling vs logic per se, it's feelings embedded in a logical structure, or logic embedded in a feeling based structure.
Exactly.
 

ObliviousGenius

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I never implied that anyone implied that Feelers were more emotional. I don't really like that term because it's misleading. Not all "feelers" have Fi or Fe as their highest function. Calling them "feelers" is very inaccurate. If I remember correctly, Ted Bundy was an INFJ. Not someone you'd accuse of worrying about people's feelings.

It's very possible for the "feeler" to be more logic based than a "thinker". The INFJ a famous example of someone who can be very good with their Ti and thus be "logical". It's possible to recognize what's value based and disregard it because it's not the best thing to do in that situation. Not that "value based" is a good word either. As in the original example, many would have told this individual of their non talent because of their values. It's not about feeling vs thinking, it's about fear of hurting someone's feelings, or rather the consequences of it. Most are reluctant to put themselves in that position, most do not respond well to criticism. Even "thinkers".

There is no distinct line between logic and feeling. They are intertwined, some don't realize it, even though it's obvious. Just start to think about what and when one feel. Some can be higher prioritized or preferred, but in the end one is never really in control.

If the person truly feared hurting someone's feelings or the consequences of it, the parent would have to know what those consequences are. Well, let's review the two big consequences of not saying anything. The first one is total embarrassment for that individual. The second one is damaged feelings/ego etc. The point is, if the person doesn't realize himself (excluding the people in denial) then Simon Cowell will absolutely destroy their self-confidence by giving them the truth. Saying nothing or telling them the truth both leads to the same outcome when it comes to their feelings. Which is better, the parents or Simon Cowell telling you? My point of view is that you support them but love them enough to do what's best for them. This thread is about making DECISIONS. Maybe I worded the title wrong but I fully believe that both are necessary to make as close to the best decision as possible with regard to its effect on everyone.
 

Minuend

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What has that got to do with what I said?
 

A22

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One makes one's logical decisions based on what makes one feel better. I see no disconnection between feelings and logical decisions.
 

ObliviousGenius

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In regard to what you said about values instead of the situation being about feelings. I was saying that those were feelings being used. If you need an example some parents don't physically spank their kids, THAT is a "value". It's not a value to not want to hurt your kid's feelings, anyone would feel that way.
 

Minuend

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You are probably misunderstanding me in some way, or you just contradicted the very thing you complained about in the OP. You said feelers wouldn't tell their children because they were feelers. I explained how feelers could be as inclined to being honest as thinkers. Now you're saying that no feeler would hurt their child/ send them to the audition anyway?

Not everybody has values where they don't hurt their children tho. I don't really understand what you are talking about.
 

ObliviousGenius

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I think there's some major confusion going on here. I never made the argument that logic is dom over feelings. I only wanted you all's opinion because you are thinking types. I never said that feelings did not have merit, I just think that in that particular situation no thinking was used and emotions/thinking need to be hand in hand, they don't necessarily NEED to be equal. I think it should be logic with heed to emotions not emotions over logic. I don't think all "F" types are like this, but I threw out a disclaimer as not to offend anyone just in case. I understand your need to nick pick but there's really no need to. This is not a debate of feelers vs. thinkers (which you turned it into) Do you understand now?
 

EditorOne

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People who make decisions based on feelings don't necessarily have the best interests of others in mind. While I think it's cruelty to let a family member you know is off key perform for XFactor auditions or whatever, it might not rise to that level to avoid pointing it out to them if they're just singing while mowing the lawn or whatever.

Katie Couric, CBS anchor and Today show host, once practiced singing in preparation for a skit she was doing with some diva or another on the Today show. It was dreadful, and she pointed out, when someone aired that prep session, that it sounded to her like she was exactly on key. And others had to tell her, no, you're not. And the duet or whatever never happened, just the playful viewing of her blithely singing off tune. That's what's missing with friends and family of blatantly awful XFactor auditionists, someone to tell them the truth. Unless, of course, we have a tone-challenged gene distributed through the family. But I don't think that's even the case, because I have no trouble telling when others are off key. Only myself.

So we are left to conclude whatever we want to conclude from this. My conclusion is that some people really are mean enough to let someone's talent delusions turn them into fools on national television.
 

ObliviousGenius

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People who make decisions based on feelings don't necessarily have the best interests of others in mind. While I think it's cruelty to let a family member you know is off key perform for XFactor auditions or whatever, it might not rise to that level to avoid pointing it out to them if they're just singing while mowing the lawn or whatever.

Katie Couric, CBS anchor and Today show host, once practiced singing in preparation for a skit she was doing with some diva or another on the Today show. It was dreadful, and she pointed out, when someone aired that prep session, that it sounded to her like she was exactly on key. And others had to tell her, no, you're not. And the duet or whatever never happened, just the playful viewing of her blithely singing off tune. That's what's missing with friends and family of blatantly awful XFactor auditionists, someone to tell them the truth. Unless, of course, we have a tone-challenged gene distributed through the family. But I don't think that's even the case, because I have no trouble telling when others are off key. Only myself.

So we are left to conclude whatever we want to conclude from this. My conclusion is that some people really are mean enough to let someone's talent delusions turn them into fools on national television.

Lol, I specifically think of the one kid with the 17 year old kid with the pink shirt and Justin Bieber hair that got up there. He's going to be the joke of his high school.
 

SpaceYeti

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I think there's some major confusion going on here. I never made the argument that logic is dom over feelings. I only wanted you all's opinion because you are thinking types. I never said that feelings did not have merit, I just think that in that particular situation no thinking was used and emotions/thinking need to be hand in hand, they don't necessarily NEED to be equal. I think it should be logic with heed to emotions not emotions over logic. I don't think all "F" types are like this, but I threw out a disclaimer as not to offend anyone just in case. I understand your need to nick pick but there's really no need to. This is not a debate of feelers vs. thinkers (which you turned it into) Do you understand now?
That's my fault. I merely wanted to point out what I pointed out. I never meant to imply that's what the thread was about. Essentially, I was agreeing with the OP, but in a way that it seemed I was arguing or trying to elucidate something that didn't need it. I should have been more specific. It was a similar but not directly applicable rant.
 

Minuend

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I think there's some major confusion going on here. I never made the argument that logic is dom over feelings. I only wanted you all's opinion because you are thinking types. I never said that feelings did not have merit, I just think that in that particular situation no thinking was used and emotions/thinking need to be hand in hand, they don't necessarily NEED to be equal. I think it should be logic with heed to emotions not emotions over logic. I don't think all "F" types are like this, but I threw out a disclaimer as not to offend anyone just in case. I understand your need to nick pick but there's really no need to. This is not a debate of feelers vs. thinkers (which you turned it into) Do you understand now?

I was only disagreeing to the naive traits you applied to feelers in the OP, and the overconfidence in "logic".

Now for what is topic or not, I am too much of a rebel to care about such things as rules. Intpforum isn't exactly famous for staying on topic, tho.
 

Zionoxis

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When will this glorification of INTP-dom stop? :rolleyes:

Just accept it, we are the superior race. No one needs to socialize, nor do we need feelings. All we need are mad scientists trying to move the world forward. Who needs happiness when we could have truth and efficiency? :beatyou:
 

Tudordee

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emotion and logic are intertwined.

you feel a certain way for a reason.
And your reason is shadowed by the way you feel towards something.

Feelings/Emotions always get such a bad rap when they are valued part to decision making.
People in history have tried to conquer their emotions by suppressing them leading to disaster. The solution is to integrate your emotions into your life.

:elephant:
 

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I read your question and only skimmed/glanced at some of the responses. Here is my take:

As you can see from my sig, I am capable of 27% feeling (heh). And I'm not sure you meant this exactly: "I for one consider our lack of emotions to be a gift." Or did you?

I wonder if you mean more that we have the propensity to override our needs to feel something with the practical usefulness of telling the truth. I can see down the road that my family member will be even more traumatized by a horrific national audition so I have the logical intestinal fortitude to suck it up and do the horrible deed by setting them straight before things get worse.

When I was younger, I was a bit cowardly in telling the horrible truth, only because I didn't like being the recipient of over-emotional blame like it was my fault. I've since gotten more confidence (maturity) in myself to not let misplaced emotional blame and "HOW DARE YOU?!"s embarrass and fluster me.
 

ObliviousGenius

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I read your question and only skimmed/glanced at some of the responses. Here is my take:

As you can see from my sig, I am capable of 27% feeling (heh). And I'm not sure you meant this exactly: "I for one consider our lack of emotions to be a gift." Or did you?

I wonder if you mean more that we have the propensity to override our needs to feel something with the practical usefulness of telling the truth. I can see down the road that my family member will be even more traumatized by a horrific national audition so I have the logical intestinal fortitude to suck it up and do the horrible deed by setting them straight before things get worse.

When I was younger, I was a bit cowardly in telling the horrible truth, only because I didn't like being the recipient of over-emotional blame like it was my fault. I've since gotten more confidence (maturity) in myself to not let misplaced emotional blame and "HOW DARE YOU?!"s embarrass and fluster me.

Yes, this is exactly what I'm saying. I say it's a gift because it allows us to see the unclouded truth. I do feel the feeling side when I make T vs. F decisions.
 

GYX_Kid

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Are all INTP's decisions (repeat: decisions) technically feeling ones, because the extroverted judging function is Fe?
 

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Are all INTP's decisions (repeat: decisions) technically feeling ones, because the extroverted judging function is Fe?

Nope, I judge on what I see. Se

INTJs judge on what they feel. Fe
 

GYX_Kid

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Nope, I judge on what I see. Se

INTJs judge on what they feel. Fe

We'll all just have to remember what your own personal definition of an INTJ is, and denial of your dad or whatever's going on
 

Mello

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We'll all just have to remember what your own personal definition of an INTJ is, and denial of your dad or whatever's going on

Whatever that is going on is none of your business.

My definitions make more sense than the MBTIs definitions.
 

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Mello, I sincerely doubt you're INTP. Information to you is fluid and personal and you put your identity into it (quick to be insulted). There is nothing wrong with that if that's your thing. But that's not INTP.
 

GYX_Kid

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I was also once confused about competition regarding who's elite and who's butthurt offended, a la INTP "ignore/brush off shoulder/tease sarcastically" vs INTJ "appear upset but possibly steal upper hand" or something like that. If Mello is having these issues with this that he's forced to live with, there may be this game projected onto him.
 

Mello

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Mello, I sincerely doubt you're INTP. Information to you is fluid and personal and you put your identity into it (quick to be insulted). There is nothing wrong with that if that's your thing. But that's not INTP.

You're quick to be insulted.

You act like you know me. You don't. You're assuming things.

If I'm not INTP, what am I? ;3

What's INTJ?
 

Mello

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I was also once confused about competition regarding who's elite and who's butthurt offended, a la INTP "ignore/brush off shoulder/tease sarcastically" vs INTJ "appear upset but possibly steal upper hand" or something like that. If Mello is having these issues with this that he's forced to live with, there may be this game projected onto him.

I don't understand what you're implying. I don't have any issues with anyone, currently.

You have issues with me.

What does it matter who's 'elite'? None of us are.
I never called anyone butthurt directly, so why even bring it up?

You're not asking questions. You're assuming things.
 

John_Mann

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Feelers always carry their worldview in every matter.

For instance, if you're talking about the beginning of universe, the first seconds of the universe, when was nothing around beyond the elementary forces separating from each other, the feelers will want to know where are god, the conscience, or they'll make jokes about politics, sex, or whatever.

They simply cannot imagine an event (even a mental experiment) without their feelings.

The thing can be worse if they're sensors too.
 

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What the OP describes are people who act on feelings, not think with feelings.

When making threads like this one you should take care to distinguish between rational feeling in the MBTI sense, and affections.

Else you end up with bigots such as John_Mann hijacking the thread to spew anti F bullshit in favor of T by equaling being a feeler with being biased and stuck in ones own perspective.

Funnily it's the F types who actually do good acting on feelings and are able to do it logically, whereas for instance INTP's tend to fail horribly in the domain.
 

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Well, it's not anti-F bullshit.

Feelers acts like that. I cannot do anything to change that fact.

Depending on the subject it's not a bad thing at all. I just used an example of bad use of feelings. But we can use a lot of good examples, most in the social realm.

BTW, feelings it's not equal to emotions. Every kind of thought or action a person does or experience is carried by a feeling of pleasure or pain. That's the heuristic definition of feeling. So the logic of a feeler is to keep attached to thoughts/actions that keep them in well-being, it's an obvious rational decision. But the pleasure/pain duality it's a very subjective thing, what's a pleasure for someone it's a pain for another one. So feelings sucks in objective issues.

Feelings are rational and emotions not. Emotions are too dynamic to someone rationally cope with.

Thinkers have feelings too, but they put logic above feeling and emotion.

Feelers can think logically if they want, but when they don't, they're biased.

Mature INTP's don't suck in feelings b/c Fe is part of our personality. We just don't let our emotions control us, instead we can use the raw energy from emotions to direct to something we think about.

I'm not a bigot, Cherry Cola. I'm just an indifferent observer. The facts it's the only thing I care. I don't give a shit if someone is hurt with a fact about a matter central to the very nature of this forum.

If all you have is ad hominem, further conversation with you about this issue serves no purpose.
 

Cherry Cola

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Well, it's not anti-F bullshit.

Feelers acts like that. I cannot do anything to change that fact.

Depending on the subject it's not a bad thing at all. I just used an example of bad use of feelings. But we can use a lot of good examples, most in the social realm.

BTW, feelings it's not equal to emotions. Every kind of thought or action a person does or experience is carried by a feeling of pleasure or pain. That's the heuristic definition of feeling. So the logic of a feeler is to keep attached to thoughts/actions that keep them in well-being, it's an obvious rational decision. But the pleasure/pain duality it's a very subjective thing, what's a pleasure for someone it's a pain for another one. So feelings sucks in objective issues.

Feelings are rational and emotions not. Emotions are too dynamic to someone rationally cope with.

Thinkers have feelings too, but they put logic above feeling and emotion.

Feelers can think logically if they want, but when they don't, they're biased.

Mature INTP's don't suck in feelings b/c Fe is part of our personality. We just don't let our emotions control us, instead we can use the raw energy from emotions to direct to something we think about.

I'm not a bigot, Cherry Cola. I'm just an indifferent observer. The facts it's the only thing I care. I don't give a shit if someone is hurt with a fact about a matter central to the very nature of this forum.

If all you have is ad hominem, further conversation with you about this issue serves no purpose.

Alright lets take this slowly then.

Feelers always carry their worldview in every matter.

For instance, if you're talking about the beginning of universe, the first seconds of the universe, when was nothing around beyond the elementary forces separating from each other, the feelers will want to know where are god, the conscience, or they'll make jokes about politics, sex, or whatever.
The first sentence is wrong. Feelers do not bring their worldview into matters any more than thinkers, I think you're just forgetting that thinking is just as subjective a way of reasoning as is feeling, and thus constitutes a way of viewing the world in just the same way.

Now what's this crap about feelers always bringing god, consciousness or topical jokes into discussions about serious stuff like the moments following big bang? Do you have any evidence for this sweeping generalization? Or is this (as I suspect), just like your first sentence about feelers being biased, just another case of anecdotal evidence elevated to general truth by means of hubris?

If you know feelers to be people who can't speculate over emotionally void subjects without bringing the fluff in then you don't know feelers, or you're generalizing based upon limited encounters with stupid people or down to earth S-type feelers.

Now I know feeling isn't synonymous to emotion. The first thing I did in my previous post was to make the same distinction but using the word "affection" instead, since it's an established term in the context of psychology.

So the logic of a feeler is to keep attached to thoughts/actions that keep them in well-being, it's an obvious rational decision. But the pleasure/pain duality it's a very subjective thing, what's a pleasure for someone it's a pain for another one. So feelings sucks in objective issues.

Feelings are rational and emotions not. Emotions are too dynamic to someone rationally cope with.

Thinkers have feelings too, but they put logic above feeling and emotion.

Feelers can think logically if they want, but when they don't, they're biased.
Right. The sum is basically that feelers are slaves under their affections whereas thinkers are not because they value logic more; and furthermore that affections wary from person to person while logic is the same for us all.

This is a total misinterpretation of MBTI. Feelers and Thinkers both make decisions based upon data, but while feelers prefer to make their decisions based upon data concerning how people feel about things, what is considered wrong and right etc, IE moral abstractions and qualic data, thinkers are more comfortable basing their deductions on upon what people think about things, what is considered true and false etc, IE ontological abstractions and physically manifested data.

Both are closed deductive systems, they just rely upon different axioms. Neither is more biased than the other, they both operate logically within different boundaries. And neither is immune to affective disruption of logic.

Finally your notion of logic automatically guaranteeing a lack of bias is painfully naive, where are all these unbiased "logical" thinkers? I dont see a lot of them, and how come they dont all agree with one another?

Speaking of ad hominems, I just have to mention how funny it is to see your attempts at degrading feelers for their lack of logical sense while your notion of "raw data" in the j/p is a classical example of Russel's paradox and you haven't realized it despite the fact that Bronto layed it all out.
 

Brontosaurie

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haha not a bigot just objectively right


whatever, mr john mann
 

John_Mann

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Everyone always carry feelings about anything.

Like I said every experience give us a feeling of well-being/pleasure or ill-being/pain in different degrees. Some experiences are almost neutral (like teeth brushing).

It's too much hard to a feeler be detached from feelings, that's why they're... feelers.

Well I said worldview, but it's not in the sense of a structured belief or reasoning. It's the worldview in the sense they can't naturally put their feelings aside or under pure logic.

As I said feelers are rational but not automatically logical.

They can put logic above feeling but it demands a lot of energy. Likewise a thinker needs a lot of energy to put feeling above logic.

I said feelers are biased only in the matter of their natural preference of feeling.

Ok I used more complex examples about entire worldviews (god, sex, politics,etc), but these memeplexes are just used by feelers as an expression of their feelings.

I know a lot of feelers (they're not a minority), and they show a obvious discomfort when they face matters where there's no "pleasure" feelings like the darwinian algorithm.

In this example, feelers always want to discover some reason behind pure blindness, they always want to search again and again b/c they want some teleology.

The darwinian algorithm does not make me feel good, but since I understand it I cannot logically try to find some reason behind it. But it would be very nice if someday someone discovered a kind of hidden intention behind evolution.

So I did not worry about feelers searching some kind of "intelligent design", b/c I can't do that but at the same time I appreciate someone (feeler) making the search.

BTW, I appreciate your dislike about my person, it's a sign you cares about me in some way.

But I can't say the same about you, I'm totally indifferent about your person, to me you're just a bunch of words in my screen.
 

redbaron

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John_Mann said:
It's too much hard to a feeler be detached from feelings, that's why they're... feelers.

I don't think you've logically considered the logical endpoint of applying concepts like this. You can just as easily say this:

It's too hard for a thinker to detach from thinking, that's why they're...thinkers.

Which isn't true. Thinkers can detach from thoughts and get lost in a feeling, just like feelers can detach from emotions and utilize logic. MBTI isn't about what people can or can't do...it's about natural preferences and psychic harmony.
 

John_Mann

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I don't think you've logically considered the logical endpoint of applying concepts like this. You can just as easily say this:



Which isn't true. Thinkers can detach from thoughts and get lost in a feeling, just like feelers can detach from emotions and utilize logic. MBTI isn't about what people can or can't do...it's about natural preferences and psychic harmony.

Nobody can be detached from thoughts, unless you use some anaesthesia or a bullet.

Thinkers are defined by using logic as a measure of judging.

Both feelers and thinkers have thoughts, even in sleep time.

What can be said is thinkers are attached to logic. And that's true, we experience nice feelings when we see some structure built with logical steps.
 

redbaron

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Nobody can be detached from thoughts, unless you use some anaesthesia or a bullet.

Nobody can be detached from feelings, unless you use some anaesthesia or a bullet.
 

John_Mann

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Nobody can be detached from feelings, unless you use some anaesthesia or a bullet.

Yeah, exactly what I said before. Read again the first sentence of my post #42.
 

redbaron

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Yeah, exactly what I said before. Read again the first sentence of my post #42.

So then, I wonder at what point you're going to realise that the things you're trying to accuse, 'feelers' of doing are actually things that, 'people' do - regardless of whether they're considered a feeler or a thinker under the imperfect scope of MBTI?
 

John_Mann

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I'm not accusing anything.

I'm just saying feelers have a very hard time to put aside their feelings in matters where feelings just are out of question.

I said feelers can put aside feelings if they want, but it's not a default.

I used particular examples where this behavior happens a lot: origin of universe theories and theory of evolution.

For some reason this statement hurt the feelings of some people here.
 

Cherry Cola

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You're forgetting the distinction between feeling (as per its MBTI meaning) and emotion/affection that was established or you're just not making sense :S

Like I said every experience give us a feeling of well-being/pleasure or ill-being/pain in different degrees. Some experiences are almost neutral (like teeth brushing).

It's too much hard to a feeler be detached from feelings, that's why they're... feelers.
No feelers aren't slaves under their emotions/affections any more than are thinkers.
 

John_Mann

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You're forgetting the distinction between feeling (as per its MBTI meaning) and emotion/affection that was established or you're just not making sense :S

Chewbacca Defense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clKi92j6eLE

No feelers aren't slaves under their emotions/affections any more than are thinkers.

It's not what I said.

But if you want to take MBTI in some level, you must define feelers as people who put feelings above logic most of the time.
 
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