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Feelers aren't better at relating to other people because they're feelers

k9b4

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We understand how other people will react by imagining ourselves in their position. Feelers aren't better at relating to other people because they're feelers, they're better at relating to other people because the majority of people are feelers. Thinkers can relate better to other thinkers because they process information in the same way. Thinkers have a hard time relating to feelers because they process information in a different way.
 

ddspada

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If you care about dichotomies at all, about 50-55% of the population has a Feeling preference, so it's probably not enough of a majority to make that point stand.
 

k9b4

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What is feeling even good for seriously. It's the most useless function.
 

ddspada

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http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/my-mbti-results/how-frequent-is-my-type.htm

For some reason I remember this page saying 50-55, not 50-60. My bad, but I think even a ratio of 3:2 is not too overwhelming.

If you add up the percentages A. J. Drenth suggests in Personality Junkie, the figure is similar. He does not specify the frequency of ESFJs, but all other Feeling types together add up to 41-45%. ESFJs are 9-13% of the population, so Drenth says Feelers are 49% (minimum) to 58% (maximum) of the population.

http://personalityjunkie.com/more-type-profiles/
 

k9b4

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http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/my-mbti-results/how-frequent-is-my-type.htm

For some reason I remember this page saying 50-55, not 50-60. My bad, but I think even a ratio of 3:2 is not too overwhelming.

If you add up the percentages A. J. Drenth suggests in Personality Junkie, the figure is similar. He does not specify the frequency of ESFJs, but all other Feeling types together add up to 41-45%. ESFJs are 9-13% of the population, so Drenth says Feelers are 49% (minimum) to 58% (maximum) of the population.

http://personalityjunkie.com/more-type-profiles/
You're right that ratio doesn't look like it supports my theory. I can't get the idea out of my head though I like it too much.
 

kora

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Society breaks down if we are unable to empathize with each other.
 

RaBind

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Law, order and liberty vs empathy, harmony and forgiveness.
 

k9b4

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Society breaks down if we are unable to empathize with each other.
Empathy? Isn't empathy just understanding how another person thinks? Why do we need feeling to do this?
 

kora

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No empathy is not just understanding, empathy is projecting yourself as that person in that particular situation, basically it's the reason you care about anything at all, subjective value, importance, passion is feelings driven. The T F dichotomy is reductive because humans are neither completely rational nor completely affect driven, and T in the mbti does not mean there is no emotion, t's feel too ya know :'(
 

redbaron

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Feeling is more important than thinking. Fact of life.

Time for everyone to get mad about it.
 

ddspada

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Boy oh boy. You've much to learn.

I wish to apologize for this post, and somewhat take back my words.

It was 2:30 AM when I wrote that, and it sounded fine, but now reading it, it sounds haughty, pretentious, and very condescending. I'm sorry.

However, I am not sorry for being in total disagreement with k9b4's statement to which I responded the above. Without the presence of Fi or Fe (within this model) human life completely breaks down, probably to the point of not being really able to call it human anymore. Look at people with Asperger's -- most of them can "feel" fully well in this sense, but have significant trouble expressing feelings. They might not be able to figure out you're sad about something right off the bat, but when they do, they will most often feel sad for you, and may even wish to say as much, but have serious difficulty doing so.

From wikipedia:

The cognitive ability of children with AS often allows them to articulate social norms in a laboratory context, where they may be able to show a theoretical understanding of other people's emotions; however, they typically have difficulty acting on this knowledge in fluid, real-life situations. People with AS may analyze and distill their observations of social interaction into rigid behavioral guidelines, and apply these rules in awkward ways, such as forced eye contact, resulting in a demeanor that appears rigid or socially naive. Childhood desire for companionship can become numbed through a history of failed social encounters.

Aspies have it bad enough as it is, and they (most often) have trouble acting on their empathy and understanding others' feelings, not with being empathic or recognizing the existence of feelings. People with a full disregard for feelings and emotions are often schizophrenic -- even some schizophrenics have strong emotional responses, but are not willing to admit it.

Your original post, dismissing Feeling as unimportant, by the way, was fueled by an emotional response.

For many ITPs and ETJs, finding a correct place from which to consider feelings and emotions healthily is a significant problem to overcome. Too bad. That's our burden to bear; the solution is not to blot out what we don't like, but to acknowledge it, understand it, and incorporate it into our lives.
 

Grayman

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Feeling is more important than thinking. Fact of life.

Time for everyone to get mad about it.

I cannot because anger is feeling and feeling would get in the way of my higher values that my reason maintains. The morality of reason.
 

Fukyo

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What is a Feeler anyway? Feelers don't exist.

you-cant-explain-that.jpg
 

Grayman

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No empathy is not just understanding, empathy is projecting yourself as that person in that particular situation, basically it's the reason you care about anything at all, subjective value, importance, passion is feelings driven. The T F dichotomy is reductive because humans are neither completely rational nor completely affect driven, and T in the mbti does not mean there is no emotion, t's feel too ya know :'(

Emapthizing also requires thinking. You have consider what they value, how they think, etc and tie that into a package of how they are percieving a situation. Percieving the situation from your own way using what you value and place importance in but in their shoes is sympathizing and it is lacking in real understanding.
 

Grayman

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What is a Feeler anyway? Feelers don't exist.

you-cant-explain-that.jpg

The tentacles on an octopus. They can be unpleasant to experience especially if they start digging into places you dont want them to go.
 

Architect

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Generally F dominants would be better at relating to people, just as T dominants are generally better at problem solving. It's simply a matter of practice, T/F, or any other preference, is just an unconscious motivation. Therefore those with that motivation will 'use' it on a more frequent basis, and thus become better over time.

Observationally I see that F types are phenomenally better at relating to others. There are subtleties however, for example Fe types which is a judging function. Being judging, you can see Fe dominants or auxiliaries judging others more. For example, INFJ's will be far more critical of others than say an INTP is. You might view that as relating worse with others, but I see somewhat equal parts positive judging (appreciation) and negative (criticizing) judging.
 

OrLevitate

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Grayman

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Being able to percieve and understand emotions on such a level is not necessarily indicative of being a feeler.

In MBTI a feeler is someone who's feelings play a dominate role in their decision-making.

I am very perceptive of others emotions, while my own are invisible if existent. I understand what is important to me and I use thinking to obtain it. I cannot define my favorite color or how a painting makes me feel. I describe feelings like, "He tried to insult me." Indicating what happened as if you should gather frommthat how I feel. When someone else is insulted, I can say "He looks hurt and broken." Indicating their emotions.

I can empathize better that many and am very perceptive of when a person is hurt even when others who are feelers seem unaware. In fact it seems the emotions of feelers seem to get in the way of seeing outside their own chaotic insides. They are still able to express that empathy better than I can as I feel awkward expressing these emotions I am recieving from others around me. I rarely even express my own if I recognize them.
 

Cherry Cola

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No empathy is not just understanding, empathy is projecting yourself as that person in that particular situation, basically it's the reason you care about anything at all, subjective value, importance, passion is feelings driven. The T F dichotomy is reductive because humans are neither completely rational nor completely affect driven, and T in the mbti does not mean there is no emotion, t's feel too ya know :'(

Dunno, psychopaths can be emphatic in that they understand how other people feel and think, they just don't care. Empathy doesn't necessarily involve sharing the feelings of other people, it is enough to recognize them. What you're talking about sounds more like sympathy or compassion. I don't think you need empathy to have those either, though it's good for accuracy.
 

k9b4

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I wish to apologize for this post, and somewhat take back my words.

It was 2:30 AM when I wrote that, and it sounded fine, but now reading it, it sounds haughty, pretentious, and very condescending. I'm sorry.
That's okay I wasn't offended at all by your post. I just figured you knew something I didn't and didn't feel like telling me about it.
 

paradoxparadigm7

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Thinkers are less likely to relate to others via their own feelings (this forum is full of examples of Thinkers who can't 'fake' a feeling response if it's not there). Feelers relate to others THROUGH their feelings. That's the 'warmth' that is sensed and emanated. The warmth is the social lubricant that gives feelers the edge in relating.

As far as empathy goes, the more fundamental aspect and precursor is mind-mapping. This is the ability to read someone's mind by understanding his/her thoughts, feelings and motivations through studying reactions and behavior. Mind-mapping arises from awareness that other people have their own minds, with their own perceptions, beliefs and desires and that other people's behavior can be explained and predicted by deducing the content of their mind. This ability lies at the heart of all social interactions. Feelers and thinkers alike. The purpose of communication, in the social sense, isn't only about transferring information but it's about manipulation. Mind-mapping facilitates building alliances or 'salesmanship' and that is a key to success along with deceiving and detecting deception. As you can see, mind-mapping has nothing to do with empathizing, hence sociopaths and con artists. Empathy and compassion is when you can direct your mind-mapping efforts toward other's happiness and their desires. It's a function of your motivation or intent. The reason empathy can be difficult is that it may involve giving up something you want and it takes an ability to tolerate uncomfortable feelings. This however has more to do with self development.
 
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