Fe inferior

[JASSY]

How do you fellow INTPs suppress the feeling function that totally betrays me every single time ?

 

[Absurdity]

Pretty much our M.O.

 

[JASSY]

great

 

[Hadoblado]

Are you looking at tips on how to suppress it? If you have difficulty with this you might need to second guess your type.

Fe is our weakness in that we're not good at it and don't rely on it for most things. By getting better at it and learning to use it you become a more developed INTP. I'm not entirely certain why you'd want to isolate and disregard an inferior function.

 

[JASSY]

well im NOT good at it , assuming INTPs want a certain level of acceptence with other people . I use to try to push myself to " feel " more but i cant . So my question is would i be better of accepting the fact that i dont DO emotions, or " cant rely on them " ?

 

[Hadoblado]

Accept that you're bad at it, then endeavor to improve.


Well... I guess if you actually want human interaction that is. It is entirely fine if you don't. I am a lot happier after developing my Fe to some degree. Most people don't speak fluent Ne or Ti.

 

[JASSY]

i dont think i want it . i think i just want to be understood . thanks hadoblado !

 

[Tony3d]

Don't surpress it, harness it. Use that raw, untamed, unpredictable power when the situation calls for it, and then stick it back in when it would be troublesome.

It is a wild beast, you can't just cage it up and expect it not to fight back. Take it for walks regularly.

 

[Montresor]

smash, kick, yell, red

 

[JASSY]

i feel like its my evil side or something, how funny . great advice , using it when the time calls for it , didnt see it that way tony3d .

 

[MissQuote]

Accept that you're bad at it, then endeavor to improve.

Seconded.

 

[Jennywocky]

well im NOT good at it , assuming INTPs want a certain level of acceptence with other people . I use to try to push myself to " feel " more but i cant . So my question is would i be better of accepting the fact that i dont DO emotions, or " cant rely on them " ?

I'm sure you "feel" things but you are so immersed in your thoughts and likely dismiss your emotions as irrelevant that you aren't even really aware they exist except in situations where you try to suppress them to avoid feeling angry or upset and you fail due to prolonged stress.

The thing is, instead of just logically thinking your way through a situation and making decisions in that one vein, give yourself some time to clear your head. Get rid of thoughts; focus on sensations; think about what you might be feeling. (Hungry? Tired? Happy? Sad? Disappointed? Lonely? Calm? Satisfied?) etc.

Also, if you do feel anger at times, don't try to repress it internally. (Keep disengaged externally momentarily, but dive into the mess on the inside.) Think about why you might feel anger. Is there some threat you are perceiving, that your emotions are trying to warn you about?

If you feel happy or are laughing, why are you laughing? Think about what is contributing to those positive feeligns. If you like spending time with someone, why? Would you miss them if they were gone from your life? Use your head to imagine possibilities and sift through them until you get a sense of how your feelings inform you about yourself and your needs in some way.

Once you understand your feelings enough to trust them, you can let them continue to exist instead of naturally suppressing them because they won't have the power to lead you astray or distort your vision per se, they'll just be additional source of input and also pleasure in your life.

 

[Ink]

I just see it as don't make any decision with Fe, just play with it... If that makes sense

 

[Tony3d]

i feel like its my evil side or something, how funny . great advice , using it when the time calls for it , didnt see it that way tony3d .

I invision my Fe side as a Lion. It isn't evil or good by nature, it is simply wild. It is immature and untamed by society and will react in extream ways. Wild and powerfull and unpredictable isn't bad as long as you put a leash on it.

I will harness that power and bring it up when I am walking around a new place I don't really feel comfortable in, or when I lock eye contact with a pretty girl, I will just pull up that wild, unpredictable strength of the lion and project that through my subconscious body language.

Logic should always control it, but if you hide it too deep inside its cage where it can't breath, it will sufocate and fight like hell to bite and claw its way out of you at any cost. If you let that happen, then you are screwed, because you won't be taking you nice friendly beast on a walk as your pet, but you will be chaseing a desperate and angry and wild creature.


So anyways, just picture your Fe as whatever animal or beast or whatever would bring you power, and then learn to harness that. Being able to picture it in your head makes it sooooooo much easier to put back away and pull out at will.

 

[Duxwing]

@Jennywocky
@Tony3d

Great advice, thanks. I especially like the idea of analyzing feelings and abstracting them. I already do that to an extent (I imagine them as big clouds of semi-translucent color inside my torso) and can sometimes translate them into physical sensations, which lets me control them even better.

-Duxwing

 

[Jennywocky]

Great advice, thanks. I especially like the idea of analyzing feelings and abstracting them. I already do that to an extent (I imagine them as big clouds of semi-translucent color inside my torso) and can sometimes translate them into physical sensations, which lets me control them even better.

-Duxwing

Pretty soon you'll need a cape and tights to accompany your amazing superpowerzez!!

I just see it as don't make any decision with Fe, just play with it... If that makes sense

"JOHNNY! STOP PLAYING WITH YOUR Fe RIGHT THIS INSTANT -- ESPECIALLY IN PUBLIC!"

 

[Montresor]

3 weeks on this forum and I already have a deeper understanding of myself.

Plus I am beginning to have a very fine appreciation for Fe and how it is truly a blessing.

Now if only I could harness it for good instead of RAGE.

I mean when I smile, it's big. Eyes light up. Dimples and the works.
And when I'm angry, it's psycho. Eyes turn steel. Same with jaw. Some days I could stare down a cop.

My gf tells me over and over that I can not hide how I am feeling. It's always written all over my face.

These are things that other people have told me my whole life I'm not just making it up to sound cool.

Because it does make me sound cool, right???

 

[JASSY]

Montesour I'm in the same boat as you . I feel through mbti and these amazing people I have a way better understanding of myself w/ out walking around alone , angry as hell on one side and logical on the other . I would see it as a lion too or "my dark side" . Thank you all, guess I have taming to do . How exactly do you "take it for a walk" ? Any ideas I can bounce off of ?

 

[Duxwing]

Montesour I'm in the same boat as you . I feel through mbti and these amazing people I have a way better understanding of myself w/ out walking around alone , angry as hell on one side and logical on the other . I would see it as a lion too or "my dark side" . Thank you all, guess I have taming to do . How exactly do you "take it for a walk" ? Any ideas I can bounce off of ?

One way to integrate your inferior Fe is to find someone who is sad and then make them feel a bit better. For example, if you were to happen upon a little boy who is crying and apparently alone, then you'd react to your Fe's urge to help him by using your Ti, Ne, and Si to find a solution to his jam. By letting your Fe guide you, you integrate it and feel whole. Of course, an even better example would be to develop a logical construct that would prevent all further such little boys from encountering the general case of the problem that the kid had faced during your particular encounter and then handing your ideas off to someone else for implementation.

-Duxwing

 

[Tony3d]

@Jennywocky
@Tony3d

Great advice, thanks.
-Duxwing

I don't need validation from someone who gives it away as easily as you.





But anyways, if you want to take your Fe for a walk, don't do the whole touchy feely thing, that is too out of character and akward. What you want is to harness the strength of your Fe. Go out in public and just let that pure wild and powerful lion pride take over, just walk like you are the most badass dangerous lion in the place, because you will probably be the only lion in the place.

Then go and tell people some weird thing that your Fe desires and tell them that you are going to fucking get it, because you are a badass lion and no one is going to stop you.

Just be who you feel like you want to be every once in a while, in an environment where your logic is still in control and will keep it out of trouble.

Don't just randomly let it out and wreck things, chose certain times when you are going to let it out in a controled environment. Schedule the time or something, I don't know what works for you, just brainstorming...

 

[snafupants]

What is the worst inferior function to have? Worst seventh and eight functions? Why?

Edit: By worst I mean hardest to cope with in today's world. Basically, the most disruptive.

 

[Tony3d]

What is the worst inferior function to have? Worst seventh and eight functions? Why?

Edit: By worst I mean hardest to cope with in today's world. Basically, the most disruptive.

That is easily Fe, by far.

I don't care one bit about 5-8, so I won't answer that one.

 

[Duxwing]

I don't need validation from someone who gives it away as easily as you.

I know that you're all emotionally screwed up because life didn't treat you well, but your past suffering does not justify taking your insecurities out on others.

But anyways, if you want to take your Fe for a walk, don't do the whole touchy feely thing, that is too out of character and akward. What you want is to harness the strength of your Fe. Go out in public and just let that pure wild and powerful lion pride take over, just walk like you are the most badass dangerous lion in the place, because you will probably be the only lion in the place.

Then go and tell people some weird thing that your Fe desires and tell them that you are going to fucking get it, because you are a badass lion and no one is going to stop you.

Just be who you feel like you want to be every once in a while, in an environment where your logic is still in control and will keep it out of trouble.

Don't just randomly let it out and wreck things, chose certain times when you are going to let it out in a controled environment. Schedule the time or something, I don't know what works for you, just brainstorming...

If I ever held any doubts regarding my suspicion that you are overcompensating for prior feelings of powerlessness, then the above rant has dispelled them. Go get a therapist before your delusions of power become maladaptive.

-Duxwing

 

[snafupants]

That is easily Fe, by far.

I don't care one bit about 5-8, so I won't answer that one.

Fair enough, but have you considered Te, as an inferior function, for an IXFP?

Does the type of society affect which inferior function is worst or least advantageous?

 

[Montresor]

That is easily Fe, by far.

I don't care one bit about 5-8, so I won't answer that one.

Translation: I don't understand the role 5-8 play so I won't bother acknowledging them.

 

[Harmony]

I never bothered registering here because reading is usually great and inspiring, but now I just HAD to.

Am I the only one here thinking Fe is like the only thing making us a bit human-like?

I don't know, why anyone would like to get rid of it? Ok sometimes I feel like it is making me weak, but the point is: Without it I'd be a total asshole. (even more than I already am) If I understood it right, Fe is the function, that calls for harmony in society, wants you not to get into a conflict, but do the discussions our main functions like so much in a peaceful way. It is, what gives you the ability to trust people (sometimes not so great) and give yourself a kind of purpose.

Also Tony3d stated, that he sometimes lets his Fe out in some kind of pride act and I am pretty sure either him or me got something wrong there. I think it is more Ti giving us some sense of superiority we sometimes just want to let out, because seriously: Our logic is awesome! Fe is more what holds us back.

Though I think Fe is kinda important for us, I still think it fits with position 4 because I don't say, we're good at it. And because humans always want what they dont have/are bad at I think Fe carries that much importance for me and maybe other INTP's.

In case you're wondering, if I am really INTP, I'm around 80% sure.

Hope I could bring some new factor in here.

 

[Tony3d]

Am I the only one here thinking Fe is like the only thing making us a bit human-like?

Also Tony3d stated, that he sometimes lets his Fe out in some kind of pride act and I am pretty sure either him or me got something wrong there. I think it is more Ti giving us some sense of superiority we sometimes just want to let out, because seriously: Our logic is awesome! Fe is more what holds us back.

Though I think Fe is kinda important for us, I still think it fits with position 4 because I don't say, we're good at it. And because humans always want what they dont have/are bad at I think Fe carries that much importance for me and maybe other INTP's.

Ne is the thing that makes us appear human and makes humans appreciate us. It can function as a false extroversion if you so choose, just read the patterns and social interaction becomes easy for Ne. But it isn't real.

But you couldn't be more wrong on the pride thing. Since when has Ti had any desire to show off? I can easily amaze people with what my Ti/Ne combo can do for them, but that means nothing to me, because I am an independent thinker and don't need their validation on something I already know I am good at.

The idea is to just let your brain know that your Fe is still there and it is still a source of strength.

When I use my intuitive logic to go pull off something that an average person would consider to be a miracle, I am not looking for them to validate my skills or praise my logical abilities. That means nothing to me. Fe wants validation, not Ti. I want them to appreciate the Fe motive behind why I came over and worked my logical magic. I want validation for the act of choosing that I wanted to help out this person who was in need.

 

[Tony3d]

I know that you're all emotionally screwed up because life didn't treat you well, but your past suffering does not justify taking your insecurities out on others.

I am not taking anything out on anyone. I am just saying, for validation or approval to be worth anything it has to be something that is earned and not just something someone gives away because they think they are being nice.

If I ever held any doubts regarding my suspicion that you are overcompensating for prior feelings of powerlessness, then the above rant has dispelled them. Go get a therapist before your delusions of power become maladaptive.

-Duxwing

It is never about overcompensating, it is just letting my feeling side out to have a little fun. It is coming outside of my isolated world of thinking and working hard on little project and letting that more primal side to my brain get some fresh air.

Therapists are of zero use to me, I would just be wasting money to make my mental state even worse.

Fair enough, but have you considered Te, as an inferior function, for an IXFP?

Does the type of society affect which inferior function is worst or least advantageous?

Well, I guess that depends on whether you are good looking or not... Thinking isn't that immportant in a lot of things in our society, and the downsides of having your inferior trait come out is pretty much harmless when it is Thinking.

I don't think it is even close when you consider that inferior traits are primal and wild by nature. If you have an inferior Fe and it is strong, it has the capacity to bring much pain and confusion both to you and those around you.

I don't think the type of society or even where in society you are even matters, even someplace like a college, where people are there paying to get smart, being a pleasant person who can make connections with people is valued over being a thinker.

Translation: I don't understand the role 5-8 play so I won't bother acknowledging them.

Not worth my time trying to understand them, the whole concept is silly to me.

 

[Duxwing]

I am not taking anything out on anyone. I am just saying, for validation or approval to be worth anything it has to be something that is earned and not just something someone gives away because they think they are being nice.

Uh-huh, and what does that have to do with me thanking you for advice? I complimented your advice, and you suddenly flipped into "I don't need your validation" mode; this sort of behavior (not saying that it's good or bad, it's just a term) is called a Freudian Slip. In a Freudian Slip, someone with a neurosis-- in your case, a need to be "independent" that makes you unable to accept a simple compliment, the origins of which I'll explore later-- causes the person to make an otherwise irrelevant statement about a topic. For example, look at this conversation between Alice and Bob (Bob was bullied in Atlanta and now feels nervous whenever the subject comes up).

Alice: "Hi Bob, I just bought a new car in Atlanta. I love the leather seats, the side airbags, and the six cylinder transmission. What kind of car do you drive?"
Bob: "Atlanta is the worst city that you can ever live in!"

As you can see, Alice's mention of Atlanta is an inconsequential detail, but Bob makes it the focus of the conversation because he feels nervous, whether consciously or unconsciously, about her mentioning the city in which he'd been bullied. What you did with my appreciation of your advice was largely the same thing: I said that your advice was great (I still think that it is, in the context of the post in which it came) and you snapped back with how you didn't need my compliment:

@Jennywocky
@Tony3d

Great advice, thanks. -snip-

-Duxwing

I don't need validation from someone who gives it away as easily as you.

It is never about overcompensating, it is just letting my feeling side out to have a little fun. It is coming outside of my isolated world of thinking and working hard on little project and letting that more primal side to my brain get some fresh air.

Au contraire, letting your "primal side," especially the part regarding being powerful, is almost the definition of overcompensating, especially when you consider this nugget:

Hugs are for the weak, those that want acceptance for being too weak.

I will not be weak, I will not forsake my logic and fall into a pit of Fe pitty and look to others for comfort. If the logic I have presented thus far in my life is not good enough, then I shall simply become stronger, I shall simply provide better logic unitl my existance is undeniable.

Let's dissect this. Complaining that hugs are "for the weak" indicates that those who do not accept hugs are stronger, and you certainly have quite the will to power: "If the logic I have presented thus far in my life is not good enough, then I shall simply become stronger, I shall simply provide better logic unitl my existance is undeniable". Excluding those who want power in order to effect change on a greater scale than themselves, someone who feels that he or she is powerful enough, or, more psychologically, safe and secure enough, would, by definition, not feel the need for more power. Since you feel the need for more power, and have not yet argued that you want to change something greater than yourself-- indeed, you have, by your own words, stated that you are very much focused on making your existence "undeniable"-- you do not feel sufficiently safe and secure.

Not feeling safe and secure in what I presume to be a safe and secure environment (i.e., you are not currently being bullied, threatened, or otherwise endangered) is a neurosis. It's not rational, you just feel threatened by some internal, possibly unconscious, thought or memory. And you're not a bad or weak person for feeling that way, you're just emotionally unhealthy, and you need to let your guard down so that we (even @Scorned Relfex agrees, see the thread of the post that I'd quoted) can help you find and better cope with your inner demons. And if you're worried that we'll be ineffective in that endeavor, then, as I've mentioned earlier enlist the help of a professional.

Therapists are of zero use to me, I would just be wasting money to make my mental state even worse.

They're not helping because you won't let yourself be helped: you see being helped as an admission of weakness, and until you have the strength to admit that something is wrong with you (everyone, even Jenny, BAP, and Architect likely have or had one issue or another, it's almost an inevitable part of the human condition) then you will remain as you are: insecure in your position, lashing out at those who try to help you, and fueled by "deep rooted shame":

-snip-
Deep rooted shame basically guides every emotion I have, but not the kind of short tern humiliation that you have mentioned.

You've never been quite clear about why that shame is there, and what can be done to get it off your back; letting those feelings out can let you better analyze them. Indeed, acknowledging and accepting your problems is my thesis in this post.

-Duxwing

 

[Tony3d]

Dux, you have too much time on your hands...

You worry about me more that I worry about me, and that is just weird. You overthink this stuff...

My situation can be explained in a lot less sentences than your previous post. I get an overabundance of validation from all sorts of sources on a daily basis. I don't have any need for it because it is easy. The validation I want, however, I can't figure out how to get, so when people give me this silly easy validation it annoys me.

If you want to be the "nice guy" stop trying to fix my problem and just respect the fact that I don't want your validation.

But anyways, I have a problem, but it is the kind of thing that I simply need to keep trying things until I find something that works, and once it is solved, I will be fine. It is not the kind of problem that I need to take to a therapist and learn to cope with it, because I don't want to cope with it or get over it or learn to be happy living with it. I want to solve my problem.

No covering it up, no hiding it behind hugs and warm feelings and validation from all the wrong people for all the wrong things.

It is a problem, I will solve it, and then things will be good for me, and you will still be a feely little girl who keeps putting your nose into places it doesn't belong.

 

[Duxwing]

Dux, you have too much time on your hands...

And here begins the ad hominem *sigh* *facepalm*

You worry about me more that I worry about me, and that is just weird. You overthink this stuff...

I'm an INTP on a forum. What did you expect?

My situation can be explained in a lot less sentences than your previous post. I get an overabundance of validation from all sorts of sources on a daily basis. I don't have any need for it because it is easy. The validation I want, however, I can't figure out how to get, so when people give me this silly easy validation it annoys me.

Red herring. I gave you a compliment, and you re-interpreted it as "validation" that you needed to ignore in order to focus on the more important kind. It was a compliment, and nothing more. You need to let go of this validation fixation: it's consuming you.

If you want to be the "nice guy" stop trying to fix my problem and just respect the fact that I don't want your validation.

Nice implied threat. Again, I repeat my thesis: understand the difference between validation and compliments. Why do you feel the need to lash out against the kind of validation that you don't want? It's like spitting in the face of someone who offers you candy that you don't like. And furthermore, why do you need this special validation so badly? Given that you were hurt in the past, I suspect that you are rationalizing your pain by creating an unachievable goal (the special validation) and then temporarily releasing it by lashing out at anyone who gives you anything less (as you did to me).

But anyways, I have a problem, but it is the kind of thing that I simply need to keep trying things until I find something that works, and once it is solved, I will be fine. It is not the kind of problem that I need to take to a therapist and learn to cope with it, because I don't want to cope with it or get over it or learn to be happy living with it. I want to solve my problem.

No covering it up, no hiding it behind hugs and warm feelings and validation from all the wrong people for all the wrong things.

It is a problem, I will solve it, and then things will be good for me, and you will still be a feely little girl who keeps putting your nose into places it doesn't belong.

Strawman, ad hominem, red herring, and non-sequitur:

1.) I never suggested not solving the problem.
2.) My being "feely" or not has nothing to do with my argument regarding your mental health.
3.) Refocusing the argument on me is not only a psychological defense mechanism (projection: you see the worst of yourself in me), but irrelevant to the topic at hand; in addition, you started this discussion by lashing out at me for complimenting your advice, so don't try to claim that I'm not leaving you alone.
4.) Emotional openness is a necessary, if not vital, component of healing and keeping your problems locked up inside only causes the affected emotions to express themselves in other ways.

Finally, do respond and rebut my actual arguments rathe than trying to ignore them. Denial is an ego defense mechanism.

-Duxwing

 

[Tony3d]

That was just silly...

Stop wasting my time, if you want to talk about Fe then we can talk about Fe, my problem is none of your business.

 

[Duxwing]

That was just silly...

Why?

Stop wasting my time, if you want to talk about Fe then we can talk about Fe, my problem is none of your business.

By lashing out at me for giving you a simple compliment, you have made your problem my business. So, like I said before, either step up (and debate) or step off (stop lashing out).

-Duxwing

 

[SpaceYeti]

How do you fellow INTPs suppress the feeling function that totally betrays me every single time ?

On accident.

 

[Montresor]

That was just silly...

Stop wasting my time, if you want to talk about Fe then we can talk about Fe, my problem is none of your business.

The way I see it, you are wasting Duxwing's time.
You're the one who decided to make a big deal over nothing and argue about it.

You are the one who decided to continue the argument.

Things did get a little personal but there are strategies you could have used to dodge the subject.

You overthink this stuff...

HAHAHAHA

Why don't you do the man a favour and let him use his brain for more useful purposes than smashing into a wall?

Rest assured you will most likely not receive a positive comment from him again.

 

[SpaceYeti]

First rule of Ti club; Drop the drama. Drama sucks.

 

[Montresor]

I willfully admit, on my own accord, that I am guilty of the following:

1. Becoming a participant in an argument that was otherwise settled
2. Posting first and thinking later
3. Prodding into other people's business
4. Acting like I somehow speak for others* this is a big one - Dux may very well offer up positive comments as he pleases.
5. Taking sides

Furthermore, I acknowledge these are all forms of undesirable, nuisance behaviour, and I am remorseful for my last post.

 

[Duxwing]

I willfully admit, on my own accord, that I am guilty of the following:

1. Becoming a participant in an argument that was otherwise settled
2. Posting first and thinking later
3. Prodding into other people's business
4. Acting like I somehow speak for others* this is a big one - Dux may very well offer up positive comments as he pleases.
5. Taking sides

Furthermore, I acknowledge these are all forms of undesirable, nuisance behaviour, and I am remorseful for my last post.

*shrugs* Meh, the only untrue statement was (paraphrased) "No more positive comments;" everything else was pretty much spot on.

-Duxwing

 

[Nott]

Great thread, I was just talking about this earlier today with my ENTJ friend because we're both frustrated with never feeling things. What is Fe, exactly? Yes, I know it's the thing that makes my heart bleed when I see a kid getting bullied, but what does it mean for personal relationships? I've had several significant others become frustrated with me because they thought I was heartless. Is this an INTP (or inferior feeling function) thing or is it a personal problem?

 

[Montresor]

I was really glad this thread died.

 

[defghi]

I actually skipped that whole discussion the first time through, glad I read it this time. Good stuff duxwing. Not that you need my validation.

 

[Duxwing]

I actually skipped that whole discussion the first time through, glad I read it this time. Good stuff duxwing. Not that you need my validation.

Hahahaha! That's a good one. And thanks for the compliment, too.

-Duxwing