Famous Serial Killers

[Saeros]

I was just wodering how mbti fits in with psycopathy and sociopathy What is your assessment of them in regards to Personality Type ?

- Jack the Ripper
- The Zodiac Killer
- Charles Manson
- Ted Bundy
- Mary Ann Cotton
- Belle Gunness
- Aileen Wuornos
- Dorothea Puente

and of course, fictional killers:

- Dexter Morgan
- Hannibal Lector
- Jigsaw

This should be interesting let the discussion ensue

 

[Words]

Hannibal - INTJ
Dexter - INTJ
Jigsaw - INFJ


...could there be a trend for Ni doms?

 

[ckm]

Fictional Ni-dominant serial killers are common; they can fit the stereotype best. I doubt it applies in real life, but to an extent perhaps.

I'm thinking Hannibal might be INFJ. His intense interest in Clarice's life and his ability to read and manipulate her could be Fe.

 

[Words]

I guess Fiction makes it more dramatic.

Aileen Wournos- ESFP?

 

[Anthile]

ITT: How typology should not be used.

 

[ashitaria]

Why don't we just label of all of them INFJs and get it over with?

 

[ckm]

ITT: How typology should not be used.

What's the difference between trying to type serial killers and non-serial killers? Wondering what their types are is a justifiable muse.

 

[Words]

What's the difference between trying to type serial killers and non-serial killers? Wondering what their types are is a justifiable muse.

It leads to unwanted unreliable bias, if coincidentally a small pattern(from a small sample) was seen.

 

[ckm]

It leads to unwanted unreliable bias, if coincidentally a small pattern(from a small sample) was seen.

Like your "Ni-dominant" speculation? Well, that's an understandable concern. However that was inevitable from the word go, serial killers or no serial killers.

 

[samloseness]

Who is the craziest serial killer in American history? Not some war leader, rather a single person that did an immense amount of destruction. I personally think it is Bundy, the guy was a nut and had no soul. But, I have this complete american serial killers list that I find tragic. How can there be so many murderers in just the U.S.?
http://www.ranker.com/list/famous-american-serial-killers/web-infoguy

 

[SQ_Minion]

Who is the craziest serial killer in American history? Not some war leader, rather a single person that did an immense amount of destruction. I personally think it is Bundy, the guy was a nut and had no soul. But, I have this complete american serial killers list that I find tragic. How can there be so many murderers in just the U.S.?
http://www.ranker.com/list/famous-american-serial-killers/web-infoguy

Bundy doesn't seem that bad to me, as far as serial rapists and murderers go. I can understand him pretty easily. There are much crazier serial killers out there. I would vote for John Wayne Gacy.

 

[IfloatTHRUlife]

I just say its too hard to generalize such a thing, mostly because anyone can be crazy. You could probably try to individually type each person based on their immediate behavior, but its not reliable because people like that just dont think the same way as others.

If i had to generalize i would probably say that the more ritualistic killers who try to repeat and relive situations to get some high, feeling of power etc. are probably S types who had experienced something that they obsess over. And the random killing, paranoid, schizophrenic type of killer is probably an N type whos intuition has taken control over them and they have lost track of reality.

I am probably wrong of course, but you never know.

 

[snafupants]

John Wayne Gacy and Ted Kaczynski are both Chicago boys.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

John Wayne Gacy and Ted Kaczynski are both Chicago boys.

So all serial killers are from Chicago!

Ahhhh, I love it when a thread comes to a logical conclusion.

 

[IfloatTHRUlife]

Agreed.

It does intrigue me that Jack the Ripper was from chicago though.

Time to move to europe to hide from the crazy folk.

Or move to Chicago to become one.

 

[snafupants]

Any time jounalists, aka fake statisticians (no offense editorone), use words like "therefore" or "proves" or "caused", you know you are in for a bumpy ride.

 

[DarkGreen]

Ooh, what about Casanova or the Gentlemen Caller in 'Kiss the Girls'? I think the movie was better than the book and that the Gentleman Caller was the crazier out of the two. I wouldn't know where to start to begin typing them though.

 

[KevinBoulder]

I have seen a really interesting new documentary about the serial killers Burke and Hare, and would recommend it for anyone interested in serial killers and true crime in general –http://www.burkeandharedvd.com.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

There may certainly be an IJ connection. Serial killing seems like it would be the preferred method of homocide for the reserved, planning type.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

WHY IS EVERYONE STARING AT ME!?!? I DIDN'T KILL THAT MANY PEOPLE!

 

[MissQuote]

I've been Facinated by Zodiac since I was about nine. I am pretty sure no one is really looking at her codes properly at all.

 

[pjoa09]

Zodiac is clear cut INTJ. Jack the Ripper could be a sensory type but very clear sociopath.

Ted Bundy ENTJ?

 

[MissQuote]

Zodiac could be an INTP, if you consider his/her lack of follow through... Never being caught, or figured out, yet just sort of dalying off, not continuing.

It is as though Zodiac went far enough to know s/he could be the best then couldn't be bothered to really prove it.

Consider as well, they really say there is no real connection between the kinds of victims Zodiac chose, as opposed to other serial killers that chose victims with definite similarities, but the no connection is assuming a typical serial killer mind frame connection pattern. It is possible Zodiac chose her/his victims based on a very logical, yet obscure, criteria (one that included opportunity as well as provided a sense of knowing the connection couldn't be made by the typical investigator)

Anyway, MBTI aside, I am fairy positive Zodiac was a female. Perhaps a large one, or even a transgender (perhaps) but I believe female is most likely.

 

[Reluctantly]

I guess I have to first ask the question: What are the major characteristics of all serial killers?

 

[Purg3]

Bumping this thread because of my interest in real crimes and also to follow up the question

"What are the major characteristics of all serial killers?"

I would rather make an inference (and maybe a logical answer) that most serial killers are (Ti)s and (Ni)s

 

[Jennywocky]

Zodiac could be an INTP, if you consider his/her lack of follow through... Never being caught, or figured out, yet just sort of dalying off, not continuing.

Is that your only proof?

I don't think IxTx would be a bad guess, but beyond that....?

Anyway, MBTI aside, I am fairy positive Zodiac was a female. Perhaps a large one, or even a transgender (perhaps) but I believe female is most likely.

Any proof for that either? Even statistically, it sounds like a shot in the dark. The type of hands on murders that occurred (with gun, knife, binding, and whatever else, and then toying with the police through a code) are far more typical of male killers, not female. I have no idea about the basis on which you have decided this.

 

[Architect]

Is that your only proof?

I don't think IxTx would be a bad guess, but beyond that....?



Any proof for that either? Even statistically, it sounds like a shot in the dark. The type of hands on murders that occurred (with gun, knife, binding, and whatever else, and then toying with the police through a code) are far more typical of male killers, not female. I have no idea about the basis on which you have decided this.

Thank you.

 

[pjoa09]

I think Edward Kemper is INTP. I can relate to him a lot.

Edward Kemper

 

[Jennywocky]

Yeah, I mentioned Kemper in the other Shooter thread. I own a book about the guy and the details of his crimes based on police reports and interviews with him, including his childhood bio, etc.

I can't say definitely he is N, but he came off definitely as ITP to me and leaning toward the N. He just didn't really get involved in the more esoteric pursuits that INTPs are typically credited with. I think one of the most "prominent" big-picture, T-dominated things he did was figure out he was killing people because he hated his mother... so he went home, butchered his mother, and then calmly turned himself in so he could spend the rest of his life in jail. Talk about self-therapy, yeeesh.

It would almost be funny in the nonchalance of it, aside from the seriousness of his crimes and what he did to some coeds.

Can't see the vid until I get home, but I remember John Douglas writing about the time(s) he interviewed Kemper, and it scared him in the sense that Kemper was such a big guy, and so intelligent and matter of fact (like telling Douglas that, well, if he really did want to hurt him there in the room, there was no way anyone could stop him before he did it... but Kemper didn't really seem to be trying to be a jerk about it, he was just acknowledging the reality of the situation).

 

[amazingdatagirl]

Edmund Kemper is a fascinating guy. He is an INTP poster child for Fe fetish out of control.

I saw a documentary about him recently (can't remember which channel). Kemper was an orderly in a psychiatric prison when he was a teenager serving time for killing his grandparents. A psychiatrist who worked in the facility admitted that Kemper had access to clinical records (this was during 60's). The doctor speculated that these files served as a "how to" guide for the young sociopath.

 

[intpz]

Well the movie serial killers are more SJ types. At least the movies I've watched - they seem to follow rules, some sort of codex, often have very strict movements and are very tidy, love order...

 

[Jennywocky]

Edmund Kemper is a fascinating guy. He is an INTP poster child for Fe fetish out of control.

I saw a documentary about him recently (can't remember which channel). Kemper was an orderly in a psychiatric prison when he was a teenager serving time for killing his grandparents. A psychiatrist who worked in the facility admitted that Kemper had access to clinical records (this was during 60's). The doctor speculated that these files served as a "how to" guide for the young sociopath.

Totally forgot about him killing his grandparents!

Yeah, I think he was 15, and shot his grandmother with a hunting rifle, then shot his grandfather because he knew was in for it. Always had "mom/woman" issues that way, saw women as naggy and drama-creating and abusive and emasculating; his mother had locked him in the basement fearing he'd rape his sisters, when he was younger, and his father didn't really want him.

IQ in the 130-140 range.

 

[Ink]

After watching many interviews of Bundy I am convinced he is INTP. With a superiority complex (or some other similar psychological term/"disease").

 

[truecrimefanatic81]

[SIZE=-2][SIZE=-2][SIZE=-2][SIZE=-2][SIZE=-2][SIZE=-2][SIZE=-2][SIZE=-2][SIZE=-2][SIZE=-2]Personally, I think some of the most interesting cases involve those who have killed when the were not driven by a uncontrollable desire to kill as such but by other reasons that were under their control e.g. for financial gain. A case in point, is that of the serial killers Burke in Hare, who are little known outside of the UK but were actually the most prolific serial killers here until Dr. Harold Shipman starting bumping off his patients. Watched a very good documentary about them that I found out about from Youtube - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfiJWZuGAWQ. Interesting, not only for the Burke and Hare case but also for the information regarding practices that are still going on in terms of profiting from murder victims.[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]

 

[Paladin-X]

I've heard it said that Charles Manson is the poster child for ENFP gone wrong.

I would say that Dexter is an Fe/Ti axis user. Unsure of type though.

 

[pjoa09]

After watching many interviews of Bundy I am convinced he is INTP. With a superiority complex (or some other similar psychological term/"disease").

He's an ENTP. The only way you can actually be narcissistic and charming.

 

[Ink]

He's an ENTP. The only way you can actually be narcissistic and charming.

Ha, not really. Just be good-looking.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

ENTP serial killer? H. H. Holmes.

 

[Ink]

Ha, not really. Just think you're good-looking.

Edited! Anyways, I really find serial killers interesting and I feel I can identify strongly with all of them (on video), I guess this is the point of a documentary somewhat but it's still scary to see how easily things can go wrong

 

[ZenRaiden]

Only two questions. First why bother typing them. Second once they have been typed - how does it reflect on the crimes they commited. I mean the behaviour of MBTI is not explained in serial killers. I do not even know why they have to kill.

INTP - why even bother killing someone?

 

[Jennywocky]

Oh, point of interest here in regards to Lecter (a fictional killer, not a real case):

Played by Anthony Hopkins (who seems to do a lot of self-restrained ITJ portrayals of characters), he comes across as INTJ.

Played by Mads Mikkelsen on TV's "Hannibal" this past season, however, he seems far more INFJ. It's a really interesting comparison and contrast to make in portrayal.

INTP - why even bother killing someone?

I find INTPs are more in love with the idea of creating a machine that can kill in the most innovative and interesting of ways, along with all the other cause-effect machines we might imagine, some of which could be productive/wholesome.

Kind of like the Architect sketch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1bHBthJN9w


But not actually using it, and not really wanting to actually kill people. That's not just distasteful but completely superfluous. The idea is enough.

 

[TimeAsylums]

But not actually using it, and not really wanting to actually kill people. That's not just distasteful but completely superfluous. The idea is enough.

I second this (ENTP), but all the same. lol I make plans to to such grandeur/giant things, however I am fine with having the entire action plan and thought out plan in my head without actually doing it. I imagine an NTP in the inferior grip might actually want to live out the Fe/Si desires though.

"I could easily do X...If I wanted"

 

[Ink]

I guess theoretically ITJs would fit the serial killer type the most, I don't think there's such a pattern though if you actually look at real serial killers (i'm convinced ted bundy is an NTP for example), the pleasure of killing is the only goal I can see. Serial killers like Anders Breivik who have a more real grandiose goal are more rare (he's the only one I've heard of)

 

[Cherry Cola]

Fucking Breivik, he's a special case. An intelligent INTJ who's felt socially alienated all his life and is (perhaps because of the former.. but thats probably not all there is to it ) a pathological narcissist.

That they branded him a paranoid schizophrenic is such a joke, who are these psychologists? Where did they get their degree? In what universe? The stupidity of it baffles me.

 

[Duxwing]

Fucking Breivik, he's a special case. An intelligent INTJ who's felt socially alienated all his life and is (perhaps because of the former.. but thats probably not all there is to it ) a pathological narcissist.

That they branded him a paranoid schizophrenic is such a joke, who are these psychologists? Where did they get their degree? In what universe? The stupidity of it baffles me.

(forgive me if my writing sounds caustic)

Have you ever talked to him or been certified as a mental health worker? His psychologists did both while you armchair diagnosed him from thousands of miles away.

-Duxwing

 

[Jennywocky]

(forgive me if my writing sounds caustic)

Have you ever talked to him or been certified as a mental health worker? His psychologists did both while you armchair diagnosed him from thousands of miles away.

-Duxwing

Read the sidebar info, why dontcha?
It's only a few hundred miles for Cherry.
I could drive that distance in a long afternoon.

I suspect Stockholm had a much closer, more accurate handle on the case than we USA doobies did.

 

[Cherry Cola]

I don't need to do that to rule out his being a paranoid schizophrenic, because no way in hell would he have been able to do what he did if he was one, it was too difficult and too complex a plan.

I also live in Sweden, where his deeds were a HUGE thing (it was in all the newspapers for ages, and the articles pretty quickly started going in depth on him as a person, analyzing him closely. So yar I've seen and heard a lot about and by him. But I to be honest I'm not sure that really very relevant, you don't need to know a lot about him to rule out Paranoid Schizophrenia.

It's pretty apparent that he isn't one when you hear the man speak, his views are fucked up and paranoid yes, but he isn't in any way, he makes perfect sense from his own perspective and is very consistent in his reasoning.

What puzzles me is that if you read up on Schizophrenia and the paranoid subtype is that there really isn't anything that fits Breivik (and a ton that would have directly prevented him from doing what he did) except his notion of Muslims coming to take over. But he isn't alone in having that delusion, indeed he shares it with numerous other extremists, are they all paranoid schizophrenics? Hardly.

 

[Duxwing]

I don't need to do that to rule out his being a paranoid schizophrenic, because no way in hell would he have been able to do what he did if he was one, it was too difficult and too complex a plan.

Schizophrenics--even paranoid ones--needn't have debilitating psychotic breaks from reality because their hallucinations may cause delusions that only affect specific parts of their minds, e.g., their beliefs about a certain ethnic group.

I also live in Sweden, where his deeds were a HUGE thing (it was in all the newspapers for ages, and the articles pretty quickly started going in depth on him as a person, analyzing him closely. So yar I've seen and heard a lot about and by him. But I to be honest I'm not sure that really very relevant, you don't need to know a lot about him to rule out Paranoid Schizophrenia.

So you're discrediting your primary source, then? Alright--you're the one who lives in Sweden, after all.

It's pretty apparent that he isn't one when you hear the man speak, his views are fucked up and paranoid yes, but he isn't in any way, he makes perfect sense from his own perspective and is very consistent in his reasoning.

Schizophrenics can make perfect sense from their own perspectives: for example Nash, schizophrenic father of the eponymous equilibrium, hallucinated that he was a key member of a secret government program.

What puzzles me is that if you read up on Schizophrenia and the paranoid subtype is that there really isn't anything that fits Breivik (and a ton that would have directly prevented him from doing what he did) except his notion of Muslims coming to take over. But he isn't alone in having that delusion, indeed he shares it with numerous other extremists, are they all paranoid schizophrenics? Hardly.

Not all paranoid schizophrenics display all symptoms of the disorder. Nash, mentioned earlier, had a paranoid, hallucinatory delusion that his analysis of secret patterns in newspapers would save the United States. He nevertheless otherwise did excellent work and had to be talked out of his delusion.

-Duxwing

 

[Cherry Cola]

I'm not trying to put forward a waterproof case here, I'm not sure what you want from me. By not a lot, I don't mean you needn't know anything, but a quick glance at him as a person rules out paranoid Schizophrenia in my book.

I also believe the psychologists who did the second review of his mental health were quite puzzled as to what the former ones had been smoking.

And again, what you're writing applies to so many extremists. The reasoning doesn't hold up if you're gonna be consequent about it. Face it, when it comes to political views you don't need insanity to be all bollocks.

Edit: I don't mean to be grumpy, it's just that you're taking quite the Socratic approach here which I find a drag because it takes too long to get to the point of things.