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Faking ADHD gets you into Harvard. This really annoys me.

deadpixel

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There are people out there who really struggle in their daily lives due to this neurological disorder, And it really bothers me that people who don't truly need it are essentially exploiting those who suffer from it.

How is this any different than a normal person faking mental retardation to compete in the special Olympics for a cash prize? Pathetic.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/01/25/faking-adhd-gets-you-into-harvard.html
 
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Every system will eventually be exploited by the people who deem it neccessary to exploit.
 

Cherry Cola

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Well if you know that you will use your education for the greater good why not?
 

deadpixel

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Well if you know that you will use your education for the greater good why not?

I would say its more self interest than greater good.
 

Ex-User (9062)

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interesting ethical question.
i'd say, let the right people get into the right positions at the right time.
 

NormannTheDoorman

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I have had a similar idea.

It was originally planned so I can get off this hell hole that I sort of got myself into.

Now that I think of it there is no reason too unless I get very desperate.



But if I decided to follow similar path to this I would fake ADHD and get a degree in Social Engineering.
 

deadpixel

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I know, my response to the "if" was that there are probably more people doing it for self interest, than there are people saying "well if...."

I get what you're saying though.
 

NormannTheDoorman

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Well if you know that you will use your education for the greater good why not?

What sort of greater good would that be?


I'm not going against this idea but I want to expand on it. We all have potential to do things for the greater good so why don't we all go with this ADHD plan? What if a man has wonderful invention ideas that could change the world but lacks the proper resources to do so, should he go forward with this idea and ideas similar to it?
 

deadpixel

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What sort of greater good would that be?


I'm not going against this idea but I want to expand on it. We all have potential to do things for the greater good so why don't we all go with this ADHD plan? What if a man has wonderful invention ideas that could change the world but lacks the proper resources to do so, should he go forward with this idea and ideas similar to it?

Good question, I guess it depends on what the idea is but that still doesn't change the fact that you are exploiting a neurological disorder that you don't actually have. Lets face it though, most great inventions and discoveries have been made by introverted thinkers. When introverted thinkers make these discoveries they usually don't have any bad intentions, they are just doing what they enjoy doing...thinking...inventing....discovering. Leave it up to the extroverts to take the work of the introvert and use it for the unintended purpose of destruction and self gratification at the cost of others.
 

NormannTheDoorman

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Good question, I guess it depends on what the idea is but that still doesn't change the fact that you are exploiting a neurological disorder that you don't actually have. Lets face it though, most great inventions and discoveries have been made by introverted thinkers. When introverted thinkers make these discoveries they usually don't have any bad intentions, they are just doing what they enjoy doing...thinking...inventing....discovering. Leave it up to the extroverts to take the work of the introvert and use it for the unintended purpose of destruction and self gratification at the cost of others.

I've come to accept the fact that I may come up with some wonderful invention and die without anyone finding out I came up with the idea.


http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=13590

This was my first thread on this forum.

I just recently discovered somewhere in Saudi Arabia they have a similar system working on a smaller scale.
 

deadpixel

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I've come to accept the fact that I may come up with some wonderful invention and die without anyone finding out I came up with the idea.


http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=13590

This was my first thread on this forum.

I just recently discovered somewhere in Saudi Arabia they have a similar system working on a smaller scale.

Yeah I know how you feel, I had a similar idea but it already got stolen and put into production.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tieA5wfcgH4
 

Anktark

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I would be rather surprised if things like that didn't happen. With the current system we are using now, it's only natural. What is here to be annoyed about? Subjective injustice?
 

deadpixel

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I would be rather surprised if things like that didn't happen. With the current system we are using now, it's only natural. What is here to be annoyed about? Subjective injustice?

True, but it needs to be marketed and restricted differently if its going to be available to anybody who wants it. Its not that people want to use it to help them study or work harder that bothers me(essentially that's why I take it but to a lesser degree).
Its people LYING about having a MENTAL disorder that bothers me.
 

crippli

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The article seems humbug. Who is "Steven"?. Most likely a hypothesis - that it could be done. I suppose it depends how robust the psychiatric system is.

Regardless. An INTP should be able to hack about anything.
 

deadpixel

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The article seems humbug. Who is "Steven"?. Most likely a hypothesis - that it could be done. I suppose it depends how robust the psychiatric system is.

Regardless. An INTP should be able to hack about anything.

Faking ADHD is pretty easy, when you go to the doctor, after every question he asks you, simply say "Im sorry I wasnt paying attention, could you please repeat the question?"
 

Cherry Cola

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For instance I have genuine ADD (I think I really do fulfill the symptoms for it and I can easily relate to stories from others with it), I only get the basic meds for it, ie metylphenidate in the form of concerta with ritalin (same substance different release mechanism available) available as an alternative. It does help, but it gives everything a sense of urgency and there are physical drawbacks and a noticeable comedown even on my reasonably low daily dosage. I am 100% certain that a combination of modafinil+ small amount of metamina for daily routine dosage would allow me to focus better than concerta does, without the sense of urgency and with barely noticeable drawbacks compared to concerta. My doctor did not know what modafinil was however, and neither do I reckon I will get any metamina prescribed because it's "more addictive, more of a real drug".

And now I'm taking a big test soon and I need to study, if I use concerta I will suffer pain in the ass comedowns and physical symptoms such as sweating, heightened pulse, tremors, and headache. I am allowed to take concerta to help me focus on the test as well because of my ADD diagnosis, if I did that I would totally double my dose for maximum focus and efficiency and then just deal with the pain in the ass which will follow. But that's not what I'm doing, I got metamina illegally instead, and it really does work much better, makes me calmer but focused as opposed to inclined to act due to a sense of urgency resulting in a focus centered around the one thing I'm doing because it make me want to do stuff, I may still be oblivious about other things. I don't use them to get high because I really want to know that I would be right in pushing for my doctor to prescribe me the stuff because if I am going to be on medication long term its so worth it that it would be moronic not to push for it.

They don't know I use drugs recreationally sometimes, despite this the superior medication offered in the form of metamina is not available for me, even in a small amount unless I make one hell of a verbal case for it over time.

If I get the score I need on this test (something like a Swedish version of the SAT) I can start studying to become a psychologist, most psychologists are not very good, they lack even wikipedia level knowledge of basic stuff, many are terribly naive and easily manipulated meaning they dont help you so much as you help them to help you. Practically all of them ovverestimate the dangers of marijuana so that it becomes ridiculous, I go to a pre 25 young adolescent place for my treatment. Of course probably 40% of their patients have done or are smoking weed, because young adolescents with issues of a mental nature have a strong tendency to end up trying weed. Of course in the eyes of the doctors and psychologists what is happening is that every goddamn patient who smokes weed has been destroyed by the drug, it being the main cause of the patients problem. Immediate cessation of smoking is urged, the patient has to regularly come by and provide urine samples, any ongoing investigation into a possible formal diagnosis must be stopped and its conclusions discarded since the weed could've been the cause of it. OFC when you drink you do it cause you got the blues not the other way around, but when it comes to weed thats not how it works.

With weed it is assumed both that the young troubled adolescents make up the majority of weed smokers (no normal person ever would try it bo able to function in life or at work while using it in their spare time <- but in fact plenty do) that they got their troubles by smoking weed alone and that it is at the heart of any issue brought forth by any patient who happens to smoke.

Does a baker assume that because people come to him and buy bread that they are the only kind of people who buy bread? Does he also assume that because some people who buy his bread eat it in copious amounts with unhealthy spreads and toppings and random unhealthy stuff you can add to bread: peanut butter and jelly, mapple syryp; plus bacon and lots of butter.. end up in the local papers following their deaths caused by heart attacks, that his bread on its own is causing these heart attacks and that any of his customers might suffer a heart attack from it because of the cases in the newspapers?

Not saying Weed is harmless. But the enourmous stigma against it completely overshadows what are typically the dangers involved with it, that it makes you lazy but comfortable which combined with it necessitating some degree of social isolation in order for you not to get caught by the cops or others you dont want to know. People are not at risk of going psychotic following weed intake, those that do are very rare exceptions. But a lot more people can end up losing their direction in life sitting in a room smoking weed all day with the same people who also smoke weed everyday. Lose a couple of years of learning about life and finding a direction and you will be behind everyone else if you break that habit you've got a big gap in your curriculum vitae where you've done nothing at all. That's the real friggin danger.

But the psychologists.. the ones who prescribe medication, they dont even know the basics of either except in rare cases. They don't know so they can't act rationally. ADHD, ADD and Aspergers are the holy trinity of disorders, these are the ones the psychs know how to treat and the ones they something about. The effect? Blame as much as possible on ADHD, ADD and Aspergers because how the fuck do you treat... say... schizophrenic symptoms for instance! Man that shit is complicated.. lets just give this schizo dude aspergers syndrome then at least he can get some monthly welfare checks and we have cured his mental illness... sort of! I also forgot about borderline and the bipolar versions, borderline is diagnosed like ADHD except for girls, it isn't used as a cover up disorder apart from that I think. When it comes to those who suffer bipolarity there are meds and support available too. But apart from those, nah, hope, you better pray to god or hope you get lucky with your appointed doctor or psych, damn lucky.

Now I want to be a psychologist because I think I am a lot more insightful than most out there, that with training I would easily be able to offer the right help to the right patients rather than some forms of help to all patients? That the job would be perfect for me because I find it easy to remain calm and invite trust; I'm interested in people, troubled ones in particular, I would not be satisfied with not knowing my own field properly, because my goal is to help as much as possible.

But to become one I must pass dat there test. I done it once before, got a decent but not good enough score. I was crap at the math subsection, ie one which has 0 relevance in the field I aim to pursue. Is it then wrong of me to get all jacked up on Metamina to study hard and then use that when taking the test itself instead of Concerta in order to give myself enough of an unfair advantage to nullify the math dragging me down?

I think not, I think the system is stupid and everyone suck and I'm gonna get to where I want however I want so that I can start doing something meaningful.

Any other student reasoning like this is exempt from critique by me. If its a known issue and psychologist still can't get their diagnoses done right then that is what the newspaper article should be about. It's easy to fake it for a little while with the help of some people close to you, but as a psychologist you really should be able to spot a genuine from a faker with ease assuming the investigation preceding diagnosis is fully done and the psychologist makes the right inquiries.
 

deadpixel

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For instance I have genuine ADD (I think I really do fulfill the symptoms for it and I can easily relate to stories from others with it), I only get the basic meds for it, ie metylphenidate in the form of concerta with ritalin (same substance different release mechanism available). It does help, but it gives everything a sense of urgency and there are physical drawbacks and a noticeable comedown even on my reasonably low daily dosage. I am 100% certain that a combination of modafinil+ small amount of metamina for daily routine dosage would allow me to focus better than concerta does, without the sense of urgency and with barely noticeable drawbacks compared to concerta. My doctor did not know what modafinil was however, and neither do I reckon I will get any metamina prescribed because it's "more addictive, more of a real drug".

And now I'm taking a big test soon and I need to study, if I use concerta I will suffer pain in the ass comedowns and physical symptoms such as sweating, heightened pulse, tremors, and headache. I am allowed to take concerta to help me focus on the test as well because of my ADD diagnosis, if I did that I would totally double my dose for maximum focus and efficiency and then just deal with the pain in the ass which will follow. But that's not what I'm doing, I got metamina illegally instead, and it really does work much better, makes me calmer but focused as opposed to inclined to act due to a sense of urgency resulting in a focus centered around the one thing I'm doing because it make me want to do stuff, I may still be oblivious about other things. I don't use them to get high because I really want to know that I would be right in pushing for my doctor to prescribe me the stuff because if I am going to be on medication long term its so worth it that it would be moronic not to push for it.

They don't know I use drugs recreationally sometimes, despite this the superior medication offered in the form of metamina is not available for me, even in a small amount unless I make one hell of a verbal case for it over time.

If I get the score I need on this test (something like a Swedish version of the SAT) I can start studying to become a psychologist, most psychologists are not very good, they lack even wikipedia level knowledge of basic stuff, many are terribly naive and easily manipulated meaning they dont help you so much as you help them to help you. Practically all of them ovverestimate the dangers of marijuana so that it becomes ridiculous, I go to a pre 25 young adolescent place for my treatment. Of course probably 40% of their patients have done or are smoking weed, because young adolescents with issues of a mental nature have a strong tendency to end up trying weed. Of course in the eyes of the doctors and psychologists what is happening is that every goddamn patient who smokes weed has been destroyed by the drug, it being the main cause of the patients problem. Immediate cessation of smoking is urged, the patient has to regularly come by and provide urine samples, any ongoing investigation into a possible formal diagnosis must be stopped and its conclusions discarded since the weed could've been the cause of it. OFC when you drink you do it cause you got the blues not the other way around, but when it comes to weed thats not how it works.

With weed it is assumed both that the young troubled adolescents make up the majority of weed smokers (no normal person ever would try it bo able to function in life or at work while using it in their spare time <- but in fact plenty do) that they got their troubles by smoking weed alone and that it is at the heart of any issue brought forth by any patient who happens to smoke.

Does a baker assume that because people come to him and buy bread that they are the only kind of people who buy bread? Does he also assume that because some people who buy his bread eat it in copious amounts with unhealthy spreads and toppings and random unhealthy stuff you can add to bread: peanut butter and jelly, mapple syryp; plus bacon and lots of butter.. end up in the local papers following their deaths caused by heart attacks, that his bread on its own is causing these heart attacks and that any of his customers might suffer a heart attack from it because of the cases in the newspapers?

Not saying Weed is harmless. But the enourmous stigma against it completely overshadows what are typically the dangers involved with it, that it makes you lazy but comfortable which combined with it necessitating some degree of social isolation in order for you not to get caught by the cops or others you dont want to know. People are not at risk of going psychotic following weed intake, those that do are very rare exceptions. But a lot more people can end up losing their direction in life sitting in a room smoking weed all day with the same people who also smoke weed everyday. Lose a couple of years of learning about life and finding a direction and you will be behind everyone else if you break that habit you've got a big gap in your curriculum vitae where you've done nothing at all. That's the real friggin danger.

But the psychologists.. the ones who prescribe medication, they dont even know the basics of either except in rare cases. They don't know so they can't act rationally. ADHD, ADD and Aspergers are the holy trinity of disorders, these are the ones the psychs know how to treat and the ones they something about. The effect? Blame as much as possible on ADHD, ADD and Aspergers because how the fuck do you treat... say... schizophrenic symptoms for instance! Man that shit is complicated.. lets just give this schizo dude aspergers syndrome then at least he can get some monthly welfare checks and we have cured his mental illness... sort of! I also forgot about borderline and the bipolar versions, borderline is diagnosed like ADHD except for girls, it isn't used as a cover up disorder apart from that I think. When it comes to those who suffer bipolarity there are meds and support available too. But apart from those, nah, hope, you better pray to god or hope you get lucky with your appointed doctor or psych, damn lucky.

Now I want to be a psychologist because I think I am a lot more insightful than most out there, that with training I would easily be able to offer the right help to the right patients rather than some forms of help to all patients? That the job would be perfect for me because I find it easy to remain calm and invite trust; I'm interested in people, troubled ones in particular, I would not be satisfied with not knowing my own field properly, because my goal is to help as much as possible.

But to become one I must pass dat there test. I done it once before, got a decent but not good enough score. I was crap at the math subsection, ie one which has 0 relevance in the field I aim to pursue. Is it then wrong of me to get all jacked up on Metamina to study hard and then use that when taking the test itself instead of Concerta in order to give myself enough of an unfair advantage to nullify the math dragging me down?

I think not, I think the system is stupid and everyone suck and I'm gonna get to where I want however I want so that I can start doing something meaningful.

Do you find that while the medication does help you to focus and be more productive, it makes you reclusive and anti-social? It puts my introverted thinking into overdrive, Im already pretty introverted but I cannot stand talking or listening to people talk when I take adderrall, including my girlfriend, unless I have to. She finds it to be quite offensive but I really cant help it, when she comes into the room and starts talking to me while im on adderrall it makes me want to hang myself.
 

Cherry Cola

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It does, but the negative effects, are noticeable as I said. Even on just 27mg daily as of now, which isn't my regular (thats a 27+ an 18mg concerta pill) I go through three hours of feeling worn out following the subsiding of the positive effects. I try to take a short nap to speed the process of coming down up, breathing slowly lying down in darkness try to think of nothing etc, this seems to help. The positive effect is unmistakable, more focus more energy more urgency take it in the morning it helps you get up and go to work and to not be a zombie upon arrival. I took 54mg's daily before (36+18) it gave me a resting heart-rate consistently above 100bpm, made me visibly sweaty following any form of physical exercise however brief. And the comedown sucked even more. Fuck dat shit. I like to take 18mg sometimes when I'm not working, at that level the negative effects are completely negligible. I never get anti-social (are you sure you're using the term correctly?) by my medicine but I need to rest in solitude during comedowns. While I'm experiencing its good effects I find it easier to notice social cues and carry conversations.

Adderall seems like a hit or miss medicine which is hardly optimal. What data exists for modafinil makes it look a superior alternative imo. Especially if combined with small doses of metamina, which also seems superior to Adderall albeit not if you have too little discipline and start abusing it. That's hard if its given in small amounts along with modafinil which isnt addictive but makes you feel awake and alert.

Adderall is better for your body and brain long term, less wear and tear. But I would suggest you try concerta or ritalin. Some people don't seem experience the same amount of drawbacks and can tolerate higher dosages. The benefits are there, clearly. It's just a matter of weighing them.

But man oh man modafinil kinda like doesn't exist in Sweden, it is possible to get it illegally but doing so long term reliably is not an option, but depending on where you are from it may be available, it seems like it could be viewed as a superior version of adderall to me, effect wise that is. If your doctor is a cool person metamina might be accessible following lots of convincing.

But concerta or ritalin should get easy as fuck to get a hold on.
 

deadpixel

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It does, but the negative effects, are noticeable as I said. Even on just 27mg daily as of now, which isn't my regular (thats a 27+ an 18mg concerta pill) I go through three hours of feeling worn out following the subsiding of the positive effects. I try to take a short nap to speed the process of coming down up, breathing slowly lying down in darkness try to think of nothing etc, this seems to help. The positive effect is unmistakable, more focus more energy more urgency take it in the morning it helps you get up and go to work and to not be a zombie upon arrival. I took 54mg's daily before (36+18) it gave me a resting heart-rate consistently above 100bpm, made me visibly sweaty following any form of physical exercise however brief. And the comedown sucked even more. Fuck dat shit. I like to take 18mg sometimes when I'm not working, at that level the negative effects are completely negligible. I never get anti-social (are you sure you're using the term correctly?) by my medicine but I need to rest in solitude during comedowns. While I'm experiencing its good effects I find it easier to notice social cues and carry conversations.

Adderall seems like a hit or miss medicine which is hardly optimal. What data exists for modafinil makes it look a superior alternative imo. Especially if combined with small doses of metamina, which also seems superior to Adderall albeit not if you have too little discipline and start abusing it. That's hard if its given in small amounts along with modafinil which isnt addictive but makes you feel awake and alert.

Adderall is better for your body and brain long term, less wear and tear. But I would suggest you try concerta or ritalin. Some people don't seem experience the same amount of drawbacks and can tolerate higher dosages. The benefits are there, clearly. It's just a matter of weighing them.

But man oh man modafinil kinda like doesn't exist in Sweden, it is possible to get it illegally but doing so long term reliably is not an option, but depending on where you are from it may be available, it seems like it could be viewed as a superior version of adderall to me, effect wise that is. If your doctor is a cool person metamina might be accessible following lots of convincing.

But concerta or ritalin should get easy as fuck to get a hold on.

I noticed that when I take adderrall, I feel so mentally and physically drained by the time that it wears off, it almost feels like I went on a 24 hour party binge. When in reality, I was only on my computer for few hours while my brain was busy being a sponge. Sleep is definitely also an issue, a moderate amount of xanax or any kind of benzo is very helpful when its time for sleep.
 

NormannTheDoorman

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I noticed that when I take adderrall, I feel so mentally and physically drained by the time that it wears off, it almost feels like I went on a 24 hour party binge. When in reality, I was only on my computer for few hours while my brain was busy being a sponge. Sleep is definitely also an issue, a moderate amount of xanax or any kind of benzo is very helpful when its time for sleep.

CHCl3 my friend...
 

Grayman

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How is this any different than a normal person faking mental retardation to compete in the special Olympics for a cash prize? Pathetic.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/01/25/faking-adhd-gets-you-into-harvard.html

You actually get a real benefit from Harvard as apposed to a pad on the back for winning the Olympics.

College should be available to those who perform best not to coddle those who struggle. There shouldn't be any benefit for the ADHD anyways.

Exploiting these things may be considered wrong or even not, but in the end it can only be expected.
 

crippli

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Should a wheelchair be allowed to enter the test location, if one have broken legs?

Should glasses be allowed so one can read the questions?

Why should one who have defect vision get benefits to be able to perform similarly to one with good vision. Or if one got hit by a truck and can no longer walk?

Or is it how well one can perform on the test that matters? If building a bridge, isn't what is important how good the bridge is. If someone with glasses build a better bridge, isn't that the bridge one would want?
 

Ex-User (9086)

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Why not? Exploit every system. Exploit everything that exploits you and your freedom.

It will make you evolve and will make these systems evolve to better exploit you.
 

deadpixel

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You actually get a real benefit from Harvard as apposed to a pad on the back for winning the Olympics.

College should be available to those who perform best not to coddle those who struggle. There shouldn't be any benefit for the ADHD anyways.

Exploiting these things may be considered wrong or even not, but in the end it can only be expected.

Well a lot of olympians make quite a bit of money from endorsements... but that's aside the point.

I was actually referring to the movie the ringer, where johnny Knoxville plays as a retarteded person to compete against real retards in an assortment of games for a cash prize, I just didn't want to use the analogy since some might find it offensive but now you have forced me to :(
 

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Why not? Exploit every system.

"Never fight fair with a stranger, boy. You'll never get out of the jungle that way."

Slightly more on-topic, perfect test scores certainly help one get into Harvard, but a perfect score on its own won't get you in. The school has an acceptance rate of under 6%, and the average self-reported GPA according to the Crimson is a 3.94 out of 4.00, never mind the insane extracurriculars that each applicant undoubtedly pads their application with.

If you really want to tip the odds in your favor, just give a bunch of money.
 

Grayman

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Should a wheelchair be allowed to enter the test location, if one have broken legs?

Should glasses be allowed so one can read the questions?

Why should one who have defect vision get benefits to be able to perform similarly to one with good vision. Or if one got hit by a truck and can no longer walk?

Or is it how well one can perform on the test that matters? If building a bridge, isn't what is important how good the bridge is. It someone with glasses build a better bridge, isn't that the bridge one would want?

I didn't say the ADHD couldn't have their pills or therapy or whatever. I am just saying the guy in the wheel chair shouldn't get a free car because he cannot walk, I never said we couldn't help his actual issue only that giving free unrelated things is just...stupid and not really that helpful for tackling real issue.
 

Pyropyro

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As much as this is upsetting, I think this should be seen as a challenge against the medical and educational establishment more than anything. You should either discard the systems in its entirerity or evolve measures to counteract the exploits.

Outside medically confirmed autism and ADHD, I really don't find treating your kids with substances that can lead to dependence and psychosis as humane.
 
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