Everything is broken

[Black Rose]

Science can fix people to some extent.

But then why is society broken?

People cannot take care of themselves because there is no one to take care of them.

People just do whatever works short term in the moment.

They cannot plan, keep clean, or make the right decisions.

They buy credit cards lottery tickets and get shark loans to buy cheeseburgers. Lose their car and homes.

 

[Cognisant]

The system isn't broken, it's working perfectly as designed, you only think it's broken because somehow you got this notion the system was made for you.

The rich have never been richer.

 

[Black Rose]

The rich have never been richer.

The rich can afford to cure whomever they want, physical or mental illness.

That does not mean the government does its job.

The government allows corporations to poison the food and water supplies.

And poor people's services are run by the least qualified people to help them.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

How do you want to compartementalize is the question. Suppose the follow up question being how invested are you in that framework?

We can approach it from a perspective that you don't actually need that much in this world, if you are the average person. We live in a life of luxury compared to most of our ancestors.

But of course, money makes the world go round. So unless youre willing to be homeless you have to work or live by someone else's standards who is providing for you.

We can include and exclude anything we want and you could be right or wrong, but the statement 'everything is broken' is a very bold one.

I would say in general there is a tendency for a specific type of "valuable" to exchange fewer and fewer hands. Even with fiat money, which its value is imaginary, this is the case.

This can be good, but also bad. is that broken in every context, or is there just something about right now in X context that it is bad? Taxes aren't always bad for an example, yet it money being centralized for presumably everyone's benefit.

Rich can afford to do a lot of things, but they can't create doctors out of thin air. Doctors obviously, are valuable, and hence my generalization about value applies by proxy of money.

But we can only trade in as much money as there is genuine value to exchange.

I think doctors should be abundant. I also think they shouldn't cost that much money. Then again just about every medical personel I hear from talks about how overworked they are. There are simply so many people who need medical relief and so few medical personel that can take them. Who gets priority? People with money.

Is that what is broken? That money is prioritized? I think that is one of those things that we never really like questioning ourselves about.



There is a class system.

 

[Black Rose]

There is a class system.

ok, but why?

Is it because people steal the money?

Then why not have things as they were in 1500?

Technology drives wealth creation, but then who gets to create it holds it to an extent.

People have said: where is all this tech if things have been the same forever?

People have said: we do not understand the brain.

People have said: computers are as fast now as they were in 1980.

People have said: diabetes and mental illnesses have no cures.

All bullshit.

The information exists, but who gets this information? the people who research it.

Those who research it do not buy lottery tickets or get shark lones to buy cheeseburgers.

If class exists then the reason is intelligence.

My mother is intellectually disabled and had kids with a mentally ill man.

My brother has the same problem as my father. cigarettes 2 feet deep in his apartment.

My aunt won't listen to us so she cannot get out of the nursing home. She says "Help me" but then spends all the money needed to be saved to get an apartment and caregiver on church magazines.

Class exists because people have mental handicaps preventing them from long-term thinking. Poverty is caused by short-term gratification due to brain dysfunction.

Soon brain dysfunction will happen to have a cure that is widely available to everyone. Because of medical science and A.I. - People will have A.I. tell them what to do all the time which benefits them because they do not have people helping them regulate their dysfunction.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

There is a class system.

ok, but why?

There is a class system because people are treated differently by how much money they have. I already said how things that are valuable have tendency to circulate in smaller and smaller circles.

The first is antrhopological reality, the second seems to have some sort of natural mathematical/economic explanation that doesn't necessarily invoke people.

People have said: where is all this tech if things have been the same forever?

People have said: we do not understand the brain.

People have said: computers are as fast now as they were in 1980.

People have said: diabetes and mental illnesses have no cures.

All bullshit.

Loaded assumptions sure.

The information exists, but who gets this information? the people who research it.

Those who research it do not buy lottery tickets or get shark lones to buy cheeseburgers.

If class exists then the reason is intelligence.

There isn't a singular reason for anything. Case an point there are plenty of dumb people who inherited their wealth or a business that they don't have to operate themselves and all of the above.

Being intelligent doesn't mean you are rich and the opposite is also not the case.

My mother is intellectually disabled and had kids with a mentally ill man.

My brother has the same problem as my father. cigarettes 2 feet deep in his apartment.

My aunt won't listen to us so she cannot get out of the nursing home. She says "Help me" but then spends all the money needed to be saved to get an apartment and caregiver on church magazines.

Class exists because people have mental handicaps preventing them from long-term thinking. Poverty is caused by short-term gratification due to brain dysfunction.

Soon brain dysfunction will happen to have a cure that is widely available to everyone. Because of medical science and A.I. - People will have A.I. tell them what to do all the time which benefits them because they do not have people helping them regulate their dysfunction.

Sure a subset of people in lower classes are handicapped.

Thinking in terms of intelligence for why the world is structured the way it is, is very limiting. If you say that intelligent people can procure power better than non-intelligent people, I guess that's true. But people dedicate themselves to different crafts and endevours. I could be a mathematician who is the smartest person in my medieval village, but if the less intelligent brutalizer in the next town over has decided to dedicate his life to recruiting warriors and campaigning escapades where he rapes and pilladges other village theres's not much intelligence has to say in why the mathametician is in a lower class.

Classes in general shouldn't be an apriori thing. They have to be defined. You can define a class for just about anything. Tech class, creative class, business class.

 

[ZenRaiden]

On a macro level Id say society is not broken.

I would say society on macro level is a huge system of interrelated beings, by affiliation of hierarchy, direction of goals, and values.

Society is broken exactly where it is broken, and good where it is good.

If we want to say something is broken it depends what framework of reference we are using. Poverty is broken people on the streets.
Destitute of some kind.
Then if we look at this its easy to say society is broken.

I would use a more tempered evaluation saying society does not work for everyone.

Society works great for some people, so so for others, and terrible for many.

It also depends what society.

Because we can go on micro level that is interpersonal relations and here it depends whom you are interacting right now, not whether x number of people are doing well or x number of people are suffering.

If we go by standard of 20th century Id say its globally improved world.
In 1924 the world has gone through WWI in Europe and numerous wars in the world.
In 2024 the worst we can say is we are having a slight recession probably verging on depression if we are unlucky.
The world has thus improved by a higher margin.


If we go by living standards, then in 20th century you might have been permanently hospitalized in an asylum and now days you are sitting at home working on AI stuff in your time. You even have a therapist albeit a horrible one, and you have a dog.

So it depends whether you want to see the glass half full, or half empty.

Does that alleviate anyone's current predicament of suffering though? Well not really, if you are suffering you are still suffering regardless of how well you are doing, whether you have money or not, whether you have a dog or not etc.

Is suffering of others the duty of society to alleviate it.
I should hope we live in society that can do that better, than now.
Will that ever happen due to technology, perhaps.
Will society ever evolve beyond its mere raw industrial foundation, ergo people walking through life cluelessly, I think so.

People just do whatever works short term in the moment.

We live in a world where short term thinkers are going to do worst by design, hence why we school kids, but at the same time, short term decisions can be good too, its just the skill to know where short term decisions matter and where long term decisions matter. My overall problem today is in that we live in a world where even long term strategies don't always work and short term ones sometimes provide for what long term ones don't.
Ergo stealing money vs making money.
If stealing is easier than making money then we have a problem. More people will tend towards crime.
So the job of politics and economy is to create a world where jobs and entry to jobs should be good enough reason so we don't have to deal with crime.
But since people cannot make money or they don't have societal support, they also opt out of having kids. And so its kind of a weird cycle.

So society is made of culture, economy, and knowledge.
You need culture ergo learning in order for people coexist happily. You need economy so people can have things that they need, and you need knowledge to achieve those goals.

Unfortunately today's world is full of people who do not know how to make society to function, but control the buttons that run the society.

 

[Black Rose]

If we go by living standards, then in 20th century you might have been permanently hospitalized in an asylum and now days you are sitting at home working on AI stuff in your time. You even have a therapist albeit a horrible one, and you have a dog.

So it depends whether you want to see the glass half full, or half empty.

Intelligence is a tool.

Some people are fine with what they have mostly so they only need the tools they have in the position they are at.

But then what if you have people who look at everything and can't fix anything even with good mental tools?

I might be good at some things but then what happens is that people like me find out that they cannot do certain other things.

I spent all my time alone because no one liked my ideas.

And I could not find information or have money to get information.

So what made me do everything wrong?

Lack of experience.

I did not know what to do even when smart.

Perseverance was all I had.

Not doing anything for hours at a time in a vegetative state.

I had no place in society.

It matters that people have a place.

Getting people where they need to be is what education tries to do.

However, some people are placed wrong because evaluations were designed before correct methods existed.

The math behind IQ tests as example is all wrong.

They never looked inside the brain.

It had to be measured from the outside in samples that were vague and small.

Same with MBTI and as such people confuse all of Carl Jung's ideas about type.

It makes more sense now to look at the billions of stuff we can collect on each individual not slow paper tests with subjective self-report bias. Then we can know exactly what each person can and cannot do and change what can be changed. When that happens money will be less of an issue for people as we move people where they can do the skill they are best at and get their needs met in accordance with what they actually do need not what we think they need.

 

[ZenRaiden]

I don't know if you don't have place in society.
Id rather say you never found people who make you feel the right way.
Maybe you find some of that on here.