ENTJ's make all the money

[Architect]

Proved ...

Your personality type determines your paycheck

You don't usually see MBTI make it into a popular article like this.

 

[TimeAsylums]

Spoiler

lmao:

Spoiler

[bIMGx=250]http://www.intpforum.com/picture.php?albumid=337&pictureid=2138[/bIMGx]

dat last place ENTP

...and second to last INTP

dafuq

[bIMGx=250]http://www.intpforum.com/picture.php?albumid=337&pictureid=2139[/bIMGx]

If I could bring myself to care about such things, I would be pissed

All too satisfied with simple understanding of the world, determined to stay out of it[rat race], ahahah.

I need Anna Moss here right now to decipher and determine this data.


any personal thoughts on this Architect? (Not on ENTJ stuff, that's really no surprise)

_____________________________________________________

I don't think this study is accurate, look at the "average education level achieved" histogram... How can this be true?

I am extremely suspicious of the average edu level achieved as well. Average...associates lol wtf. I demand to know what range of the economy they reached, the whole majority? O_o

I've just seen this, but it's no great news.
The study just confirms what we all knew and suspected:

^^^ very unsurprising indeed

_____________________________________________________


Also:

"those not as concerned with education and income, thrive in social situations"

I find this statement highly contradictory with the results of the surveys.

...seeing as NTP have lowest educations and almost lowest income, they should be the ones "thriving in social situations" according to this statement...and we all know how true that is...lel

who the fuck are these people

Anna Moss, you have some research/explaining to do:

http://oddlydevelopedtypes.com/ENTP :

ENTPs are life's pioneering entrepreneurs. This was confirmed by a study which found that ENTPs were the type that most liked the work environment characteristic "independence and achievements" and "Opportunities for advancement and high pay but not job security" (Myers et al., 1998). A study of 341 software technical professionals found that ENTPs and INTPs were the types most likely to choose to start their own business (Garden, 1997). The #1 adjective that non-type-saavy observers used to described female ENTPs was "enterprising" (Thorne & Gough, 1991).

And now, the bottom line. Yes, ENTPs are among the highest paid of all types (Myers et al., 1998). And they are still dissatisfied with their salaries. You whiners.

The pastime that ENTPs were most strongly overrepresented for was "Taking classes." This is not surprising, since all the Rationals except the ENTJs also tended to like taking classes. (None of the other temperaments even considered "taking classes" to be a leisure activity at all.)

http://oddlydevelopedtypes.com/content/intps-work :

It may be of interest to note that a study of 341 software technical professionals found that ENTPs and INTPs were the types most likely to choose the career path of owning their own business (Garden, 1997).

contrasted with ENTP literally lowest education O_o and ENTJ highest
and low incomes


I can buy that most/some NTPs will avoid the rat race, couldn't care less about Se things, and are content with living of themselves, thus not striving for those things necessarily...but I still find this to be flawed...

 

[WALKYRIA]

I've just seen this, but it's no great news.
The study just confirms what we all knew and suspected:

-INFP have notoriously low income.

-ENTP lol, they have one of the lowest education level and high ADD rate so they get lazy and speak too much.. so not surprizing they don't make much money.

-INTPs are lazy intellectuals and share with INFP's the highest rate of dissatisfaction in their jobs... So really not surprizing they don't make money.

-what surprised me was the high salary of ESFJ, like third highest salary?wtf?( And then everything became clear once I thought about all the high school teachers, social workers, nurses, prostitution*, porn actresses*, ...etc)
-ENTJ tend to be CEO's, surgeons,...Etc
-Society rewards with money, outgoing and hardworking and focused people.


The general message of this study was pretty clear: "Hey you little lazy and asocial INTP boy , you betta change and become a judger and an outgoing personality; thus work hard and be social if you wanna make some money. Because look, even the commonal ESFJ makes so much more money than you "

I don't think this study is very accurate anyways, just look at the "average education level achieved" histogram... How can this be true? Don't Americans achieve master degrees? Is the educational level in America that low? How come?


*** Am kiddin, ESFJ donot prostitute or porn more than anyother type.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

I need Anna Moss here right now to decipher and determine this data.

Consider that the current study and the one cited in 1998 took place under very different economic circumstances.

 

[TimeAsylums]

Consider that the current study and the one cited in 1998 took place under very different economic circumstances.

I am not vereh economically savvy, please extrapolate? (srs) (also, see edits)
(I mean, I get the gist, but explain more?)

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

I am not vereh economically savvy, please extrapolate? (srs) (also, see edits)
(I mean, I get the gist, but explain more?)

Don't go living under the assumption that I actually have something to explain in depth here.

 

[Jennywocky]

Proved ...

Your personality type determines your paycheck

You don't usually see MBTI make it into a popular article like this.

I loved the salary chart: The ENTJ line is more than twice as big as the INTP line for salary, but the numbers don't match the size -- the average is about $55K vs $85K I think, where if it was actually drawn to scale the ENTJ should be making more like $125K.

Visual charts can be sneaky that way.

 

[TimeAsylums]

well, anyway, I suppose if we all wish to continue have intellectual stimulation (jk) we shall just remain uneducated (by the system), nonconforming, and of a low socioeconomic status. We shall live like Socrates.


...also, our love opposites to the NTPs, teh NFJs make more than us, and have more education. LOL xD

 

[Pyropyro]

ENTJ: That's actually expected, I think I should study them and adapt the things/attitudes that I can.
INTP: Again expected.
INFP: This actually quite plausible. I tend to picture them in volunteer or community development areas where the money is low but where their Dominant Fi can flourish
ENTP: I didn't expect this one. They should've been higher than INTP in terms of social networking skills which can propel them to get more decent jobs. Maybe their Inferior Si can't make them grounded to Earth enough to actually use their talents
Educational attainment: Wow, you can survive with just a High School diploma! We need to be at least at the college level (And have pleasing personality ) to land a service crew job at McDonalds.

 

[redbaron]

Actually, according to this chart if we combine all the average salaries we get $1,073,500/year* across all personality types. The chart lists ENTJ's as earning $83,000/year.

ENTJ earnings of $83,000 / $1,073,500 = 0.0773 x 100 = 7.73% of total income across all personality types. This is only 1.48% more than what the average income would be if all types earned equal amounts (100 / 16 = 6.25).

This means two things:

- the title is wrong, and should be more accurately named, 'ENTJ's make 7.73% of all the money'
- this is not unexpected given that ENTJ's are generally taken to be the most entrepreneurial of all the MBTI personalities

Please do not spread misinformation with poorly thought-out threads. Thanks.

*figures are accurate insofar as was able to ascertain through observation of the chart using the naked eye. Increased accuracy could be made possible through the usage of magnification tools, none of which were available at the time of publication of this study. As such, a small margin of error should be allowed for when noting the numerical values stated above - however it is surmised that this margin of error should not exceed a value of +/- 2%.

Spoiler

Satire. Calm down.

 

[Latte]

Does this indicate something about how our societal structure and at the centre of it, our economic system harvests the potential of some types much better than others?

Or is this not dependent on economic and social structure, or is it perhaps much more complex than that?

Do the cultural possibilities within the current systems allow for a culture that could better harvest the hypothetical potential of the seemingly high general intelligence segments of society that don't tend to come into a position to use their strengths for the economic benefit of the society as a whole?

If yes, then how. If no, then what societal parameters would be more conducive to harvesting their potential?

Note: It's ok to illustrate examples where that would be at the cost of harvesting the potential of others.

 

[pjoa09]

I guess I gotta act ENTJ.

Time to be a dick.

 

[Hadoblado]

What's wrong with ENTJs?

 

[Brontosaurie]

I guess I gotta act ENTJ.

Time to be a dick.

time for a lot of "don't be so close-minded" followed two minutes later by "don't be ridiculous"

trademark ENTJ

 

[Pyropyro]

I guess I gotta act ENTJ.

Time to be a dick.

I think it's ENTJ's get things done approach that should be emulated.

 

[WALKYRIA]

All I see in this study is the reflect of blackmailing used by society to make us kneel. They want to force us to act decisive, be serious, focused and competitive... all those things don't lead to personal happiness, harmony, better life or a meaningful/wise life. Some people just don't give a shi*t to know who they are and what they represent in this world. They don't care about the hows and the whys in this universe. They don't seek overall peace. Things are much more easier for them then.

In this chart I find that INTJ and ENFJ are the most balanced overall , because they surely know how to live a good/ balanced life all in all.... So for me they are the big winners.

And another thing is that money doesn't make people happy; there are many other things to factor in , such as health( E*TJ tend to be stressed out and burned out, thus with increased overall cardio-vascular risk: heart strokes, migraines, chronic back pain, highly medicated, stress, gastric aches,..Etc!), free time( ENTJs don't have neither, they live for their jobs!), family time( ENTJ don't have neither!), hobby time, general knowledge,..Etc

So, what we should do next is to build a study about " the overall happiness/ life satisfaction per MBTI type". I'm sure INTPs would arrive higher(and INTJ even higher) ,...maybe!

 

[PmjPmj]

Interesting infographic... thing.

My ENFJ fiancee is a high earner, but yeah - the couple of ENTJs I know blow even her out of the water; they're ridiculously ahead of the game when it comes to careers.

As an INFJ, I'm more about the work-life balance. I hope to earn a decent wage one day, though I'm far more concerned with doing something in-line with my interests; I'd rather earn less and enjoy my work than earn wads and dislike it.

I often look at my stressed out ENFJ, running around like a daft fart, struggling to get some quality time for herself.

"Fuck that" is what always comes to mind

 

[Architect]

Please do not spread misinformation with poorly thought-out threads. Thanks.

lol ... I had hoped the sardonic "proved" at the beginning of the thread made the point clear.

Anyhow I expect this to be inaccurate, as people frequently mistype themselves. And of course you have to take an info graphic in context; I make a lot more than the average ENTJ for example. However as you'd expect ST types do pretty well, with the one exception of the ISFJ. This is extremely interesting because many ISFJs I've known - especially male - have had issues with their work situation.

 

[TimeAsylums]

607 rage comments left on that page down below

more mad than we is

 

[Cavallier]

I have always made as much if not more than my ENTJ. Interesting.

 

[NoID10ts]

Lets use these rational minds of ours to develop new and inventive ways to steal from them.

 

[Valentas]

Am I right to guess that ENTJs chart is much higher because a lot of Fortune 500 companies CEOs are ENTJs? It would explain massive difference between them and other types.

 

[redbaron]

lol ... I had hoped the sardonic "proved" at the beginning of the thread made the point clear.

I was kidding, it was satire

I wasn't about to take an infographic for cereal.

 

[Cavallier]

 

[redbaron]

You're such a Froot Loop Cav.

Spoiler

These jokes are bad and make me feel bad.

 

[Jennywocky]

Lets use these rational minds of ours to develop new and inventive ways to steal from them.

That is why the INTP will always win. (Or, rather, be able to think of a way to win that unfortunately will never be implemented because we are too damned lazy.)

We are smarter than the panther.

We do not have to generate the money, we merely need to be able to reallocate the ownership of the money once generated.

... or be able to hack Internet and phone, stream movies for free, dumpster-dive, and do whatever else we need to do that doesn't demand actually working harder for more taxable income.

 

[redbaron]

I'd say ESTJ's are the most likely to drink all the milk.

 

[Jennywocky]

Bastards.

(And then say they had a right to it based on precedent and hierarchical logistics... and then tell someone else to go buy more.)

 

[paradoxparadigm7]

If ENTJs are better suited for leadership positions such as CEO's, CFO's or Chief ___ of corporations then one of the reasons for high salary is the fact that leadership positions are just much better compensated especially in the US. If degree of compensation was based on societal impact (scientists, teachers, researchers, IT, child care workers, non-profits etc), I would suspect NTs and NFs might be the front runners. Yes, societal impact has to be defined but hey, I just wanted to stick up for the underdog (as my type is wont to do).

 

[~~~]

As the ENTJ evolves they'll realise that they'll need to seek out the INTP and move them up the food chain.

 

[Hadoblado]

ENTJs are really fucking good at doing stuff. Doing stuff is compensated with money. What was the question?

But srsly, ENTJs are like the peak of goal directed behaviour. They are very well adapted, I don't see the need to begrudge them that.

 

[Pyropyro]

ENTJs are really fucking good at doing stuff. Doing stuff is compensated with money. What was the question?

But srsly, ENTJs are like the peak of goal directed behaviour. They are very well adapted, I don't see the need to begrudge them that.

I agree, Ti-Si whining won't get us anywhere.

 

[paradoxparadigm7]

ENTJs are really fucking good at doing stuff. Doing stuff is compensated with money. What was the question?

But srsly, ENTJs are like the peak of goal directed behaviour. They are very well adapted, I don't see the need to begrudge them that.

I'd say they are better at orchestrating and structuring how things get done through management of people who do the work. It's not that ENTJs aren't doing work, they most certainly are. It's just they excel at pushing other's to get shit done. I've only known one ENTJ in a dating situation and I felt compelled, pushed and directed. Of course, pushing back at him was lots of fun too.

I don't begrudge them as a group in any way.

 

[sushi]

strong Js, especially, ENTJ can't deal with risk, pain anf failure, the eseential prerequiste to any journey towards success. Thats why they suck at dealing with uncertainty, have a compulsion to plan things to precision, and work their ass off to avoid thinking and introspection (so they don't have to deal with their inner demons). This only to perpetuate more workaholism in the end. They work hard because they fear failure more than any other rational types
.
When their plans crash down like a house of cards and they lose their fortune overnight, watch them go to steriod rage and cry like a baby. (like Light Yagami at the end of death note). Without a thorough understanding of how things work and just planning and working compulsively is not a healthy approach to life Some of them go on a 90 hr work week mode like Marrisa Mayer.

Every business or endeavor is a trial or fail process. Js apparently trouble understanidng this concept, believing that the magic of planning can make everything work flawlessly and efficiently.

 

[sushi]

Does this indicate something about how our societal structure and at the centre of it, our economic system harvests the potential of some types much better than others?

Or is this not dependent on economic and social structure, or is it perhaps much more complex than that?

Do the cultural possibilities within the current systems allow for a culture that could better harvest the hypothetical potential of the seemingly high general intelligence segments of society that don't tend to come into a position to use their strengths for the economic benefit of the society as a whole?

If yes, then how. If no, then what societal parameters would be more conducive to harvesting their potential?

Note: It's ok to illustrate examples where that would be at the cost of harvesting the potential of others.

society favors people who can use capitaliize strengths, believe in themselves and can bounce back from setbacks. George soros is an INTP and he never lets his Introversion get in the way. The stock market requires rigorous analysis and understanding which is fitting to the nature of Ti.
Generally doing what the majority of the herd is doing is not going to lead to success, only to mediocrity. However the cost of failure is also very high if you endeavor something that few has done before.

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

strong Js, especially, ENTJ can't deal with risk, pain anf failure, the eseential prerequiste to any journey towards success. Thats why they suck at dealing with uncertainty, have a compulsion to plan things to precision, and work their ass off to avoid thinking and introspection (so they don't have to deal with their inner demons). This only to perpetuate more workaholism in the end. They work hard because they fear failure more than any other rational types
.
When their plans crash down like a house of cards and they lose their fortune overnight, watch them go to steriod rage and cry like a baby. (like Light Yagami at the end of death note). Without a thorough understanding of how things work and just planning and working compulsively is not a healthy approach to life Some of them go on a 90 hr work week mode like Marrisa Mayer.

Every business or endeavor is a trial or fail process. Js apparently trouble understanidng this concept, believing that the magic of planning can make everything work flawlessly and efficiently.

I don't know that I disagree or agree but I think this is very well written. Enjoyed this post.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Well inferior Fi does correspond pretty well to "steriod rage and cry like a baby"

 

[sushi]

Most ENTJs I observe suffer from some symptoms of OCPD, and they seemed to be proud of this trait. Not saying extreme chaos and Pness is a good thing, but the other extreme is not exactly as healthy.

 

[pjoa09]

I think it's ENTJ's get things done approach that should be emulated.

If you try to get things done you are a dick.

 

[ZenRaiden]

strong Js, especially, ENTJ can't deal with risk, pain anf failure, the eseential prerequiste to any journey towards success. Thats why they suck at dealing with uncertainty, have a compulsion to plan things to precision, and work their ass off to avoid thinking and introspection (so they don't have to deal with their inner demons). This only to perpetuate more workaholism in the end. They work hard because they fear failure more than any other rational types
.
When their plans crash down like a house of cards and they lose their fortune overnight, watch them go to steriod rage and cry like a baby. (like Light Yagami at the end of death note). Without a thorough understanding of how things work and just planning and working compulsively is not a healthy approach to life Some of them go on a 90 hr work week mode like Marrisa Mayer.

Every business or endeavor is a trial or fail process. Js apparently trouble understanidng this concept, believing that the magic of planning can make everything work flawlessly and efficiently.

This absolutely true. I hate ENTJ trait of workaholism.

 

[Hadoblado]

I hate to be this guys since Bront totally called it...

strong Js, especially, ENTJ can't deal with risk, pain anf failure, the eseential prerequiste to any journey towards success. Thats why they suck at dealing with uncertainty, have a compulsion to plan things to precision, and work their ass off to avoid thinking and introspection (so they don't have to deal with their inner demons). This only to perpetuate more workaholism in the end. They work hard because they fear failure more than any other rational types
.
When their plans crash down like a house of cards and they lose their fortune overnight, watch them go to steriod rage and cry like a baby. (like Light Yagami at the end of death note). Without a thorough understanding of how things work and just planning and working compulsively is not a healthy approach to life Some of them go on a 90 hr work week mode like Marrisa Mayer.

Every business or endeavor is a trial or fail process. Js apparently trouble understanidng this concept, believing that the magic of planning can make everything work flawlessly and efficiently.

They can deal with risk. I don't know where you got this from. Being efficient means dealing with risk in many situations.

They can deal with pain of failure. They're generally more motivated to seek reward than avoid failure. Hence the risk thing. They don't like failure (nobody does), but they don't define their behaviour by their avoidance of failure.

They don't work hard to avoid introspection, they avoid introspection to work hard. That's extroversion bud. You're generalising your own state of mind beyond where it's useful to do so. They have different values that are not defined entirely by their difference with your own.

Workoholism is such a dirty word. It's not workoholism to work harder than you do.

society favors people who can use capitaliize strengths, believe in themselves and can bounce back from setbacks. George soros is an INTP and he never lets his Introversion get in the way. The stock market requires rigorous analysis and understanding which is fitting to the nature of Ti.
Generally doing what the majority of the herd is doing is not going to lead to success, only to mediocrity. However the cost of failure is also very high if you endeavor something that few has done before.

Doing what the rest of the herd are doing better than the rest of the herd is a pretty sure path to success. Those that are intrinsically motivated to enjoy their work are more likely put more effort and time in, eventually achieve a greater level of competence, and experience success as a result.

Did you read the material this thread is based on? They are the most successful type... Your idealistic notion that anything you prefer should be preferred and rewarded by others is silly.

Most ENTJs I observe suffer from some symptoms of OCPD, and they seemed to be proud of this trait. Not saying extreme chaos and Pness is a good thing, but the other extreme is not exactly as healthy.

Are you sure you're looking at ENTJs, and... you know... not just people with OCPD?

I don't know that I disagree or agree but I think this is very well written. Enjoyed this post.

You write with the same style. If I had read what he wrote without knowing who's it was, I would have guessed yours.

 

[Analyzer]

Doing what the rest of the herd are doing better than the rest of the herd is a pretty sure path to success. Those that are intrinsically motivated to enjoy their work are more likely put more effort and time in, eventually achieve a greater level of competence, and experience success as a result.

Pretty much. This is the strength of the cognitive potentials of the ENTJ.

It is interesting as both the ENTJ and INTP share the same functional stack, just inverse. What does this mean for the INTP? Are they most in inner focused(Ti/Si) as opposed to outer(working/extrinsic rewards)Te/Se?

ENFJs and INFPs are similar in this regard but more based on value preferences, Fe/Fi.

ENTPs and INTJs seem more balanced when it comes to output as their primary functions are perceiving functions.

**From experience I have noticed a lot of ENFJs on the same level as ENTJs when it comes to working and external focus.

 

[Pyropyro]

If you try to get things done you are a dick.

Nah, the only guys that will think that you're a dick are the "couldas, wouldas and shouldas" of the world.

Anyways, I can handle their seething yet passive hatred quite well.

 

[Skinart]

Nah, the only guys that will think that you're a dick are the "couldas, wouldas and shouldas" of the world.

I love bad things. I love to rip them apart, because at the end of poking fun at them, I finish with the reminder that the person or persons responsible for producing that trash...finished.

It reminds me to push myself.

 

[sushi]

I hate to be this guys since Bront totally called it...



They can deal with risk. I don't know where you got this from. Being efficient means dealing with risk in many situations.

They can deal with pain of failure. They're generally more motivated to seek reward than avoid failure. Hence the risk thing. They don't like failure (nobody does), but they don't define their behaviour by their avoidance of failure.

They don't work hard to avoid introspection, they avoid introspection to work hard. That's extroversion bud. You're generalising your own state of mind beyond where it's useful to do so. They have different values that are not defined entirely by their difference with your own.

Workoholism is such a dirty word. It's not workoholism to work harder than you do.



Doing what the rest of the herd are doing better than the rest of the herd is a pretty sure path to success. Those that are intrinsically motivated to enjoy their work are more likely put more effort and time in, eventually achieve a greater level of competence, and experience success as a result.

Did you read the material this thread is based on? They are the most successful type... Your idealistic notion that anything you prefer should be preferred and rewarded by others is silly.



Are you sure you're looking at ENTJs, and... you know... not just people with OCPD?



You write with the same style. If I had read what he wrote without knowing who's it was, I would have guessed yours.

No I don't think so. You refute what I said without adding any value.

introspection=thinking, working is not spending time thinking, working is a way of distraction from dealing with your thoughts. Some people go party hard and do drugs to avoid their thoughts, other work relentlessly to avoid it. Overworking=avoid thinking about things you don't want to think about , avoid using intelligence to figure out the mechanicism behiind how things work(ti) and use work as a distraction.

They define their behavior exactly by avoidance of failure, since working hard without critical analysis to exactly to avoid failure, only to be pushed to an extreme in their case. How else to avoid fear of failure, by not working?
(the very defintion in this productive society is to use work to avoid failure, and Te pushes this to the extreme as a contrast to Ps).
They think every second not spend on work and spend on something else is wasted, hence their defintion of efficiency.

OCPD is an extreme J trait, ENTJ or not. My prove that the article is BS.

 

[Hadoblado]

I can't take this seriously without feeling like a jerk. You win.

 

[Cherry Cola]

They can deal with risk. I don't know where you got this from. Being efficient means dealing with risk in many situations.

They can deal with pain of failure. They're generally more motivated to seek reward than avoid failure. Hence the risk thing. They don't like failure (nobody does), but they don't define their behaviour by their avoidance of failure.

They don't work hard to avoid introspection, they avoid introspection to work hard. That's extroversion bud. You're generalising your own state of mind beyond where it's useful to do so. They have different values that are not defined entirely by their difference with your own.

Workoholism is such a dirty word. It's not workoholism to work harder than you do.



Doing what the rest of the herd are doing better than the rest of the herd is a pretty sure path to success. Those that are intrinsically motivated to enjoy their work are more likely put more effort and time in, eventually achieve a greater level of competence, and experience success as a result.

Did you read the material this thread is based on? They are the most successful type... Your idealistic notion that anything you prefer should be preferred and rewarded by others is silly.

Great post :O

 

[Brontosaurie]

strength of the cognitive potentials of the ENTJ.

imagine if they sang that in this song's chorus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx8lldqj6GU

what would the world be like?

strength = curse

cognitive potentials = legions

ENTJ = death

what does it mean?

 

[redbaron]

Post.

This is the product of your own faulty interpretations and hasty generalizations, more than it's actual insight about ENTJ's.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

If you're hard working, dedicated and choose the right field (being entrepreneurial), you're most likely going to be successful.