Engineering,Physics major or Architecture?

[WittyUsername]

Well my question is simple. Which is better?

I had decided to go for engineering first but now I realise I was following the flock. I mean its not that I wont be able to do it but I haven't really locked out my other options (which is usually the case here)

Physics Major ; Sounds interesting to me. I'm pretty good at it and have little difficulty understanding it. I really enjoy being enlightened by this beautiful subject. I wont say I'm brilliant at maths but I'm better than average. These are my queries-

1. Will I get time to surf the web, read the books I want to read (many)?

2. I dont see any great job prospects after I graduate so is it a good idea to pursue a management degree and get huge sums of money at some bank? Because I dont think investment banking will be boring and it involves a lot of information collecting too.( i dont know shit.just saying stuff i think)

Architecture: Putting it simply , I cant draw for shit. But I've known people who have survived it without any notable artistic skills. Same queries here too.

Engineering; Now I have no clue what exactly I'll be learning here but I think the fundamentals of our education system will remain here too. So basically more nights of rote learning and ass grinding. I dont mind it either since it gives me the leisure time I want and will provide me with a decent paying job after graduation.

Help this young warrior in choosing a path oh learned gurus!

 

[Cogwulf]

Architecture isn't highly technical. It requires low-level engineering knowledge, but nothing in depth.

Physics is highly mathematical and theoretical. Choose it if you are happy working all day with a sheet of numbers and no physcial objects.

Engineering is more like applied physics. Rather than rote memorisation of facts and figures, you are taught with reference to reality.
There are many different types of engineering too, like mechanical or automotive etc.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Applied physics is the shizzics. Do eeet!

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Well obviously Engineering and Physics go hand-in-hand. I say go for applied Physics that relates to engineering. You could also find a way to get all three in one profession or study.

There are many different types of engineering too, like mechanical or automotive etc.

And it goes even more into detail than that...

Architecture: Putting it simply , I cant draw for shit. But I've known people who have survived it without any notable artistic skills. Same queries here too.

Really? You don't need to have high dexterity and creativity? I always thought architecture was more aesthetics than it was practicality(well, besides being able to actually build the model).

 

[VroumVroum]

Here, engineering would be the best choice. They ask you to resolve problems and you can manage your time. We have extremely few homework and lectures aren’t mandatory.

We’re asked to know the theory with fewer details than physicians (understanding it is almost enough). And examinations are mainly about the way you can resolve new problems. We have the best paid off all and by far the widest variety of masters, options and possible jobs.
Heavy math, sciences and problem solving are required.
Ho, I wish I were a student one more time.

By our standards, Architects are to be laughed at.
Pure physics is fine but it would have eventually bored me.

On the other hand, I don’t live in the United States and my advices are probably irrelevant.

 

[Architect]

No offense, but not sure I'd say Physics & Engineering go hand in hand, in reality the majors are quite different, as are the careers and opportunities. I have degrees in physics, but worked my entire career as a software engineer.

I'd say unless you absolutely have to be a physicist (you love the field so much you wouldn't be happy doing anything else), then get the Engineering degree.

 

[WittyUsername]

Engineering it is.

 

[lafmeche]

While I agree with most of what's been said here, the decision to go into engineering is not something that should be taken lightly. A good engineering school will require you to work your butt off, and while I'm always happy to see another engineer (the meche in my name means Mechanical Engineer) join our ranks, a good engineer is much more than somebody that gets a degree and has a well-paying job. In fact, I know many so-called brilliant people who had 4.0 gpas and went on to get advanced engineering degrees. A lot of them cannot engineer their way out of a wet paper bag and have either priced themselves out of the market, or simply cannot perform well enough to compete for jobs.

Many parts of engineering jobs will not fit well with the stereotypical INTP. Engineers are often at least partially hands-on, and generally have quite a bit of routine/boring desk work. The exact ratio depends on where you are and what you do; some engineers may be fully devoted to one or the other. There's often quite a bit of human interaction: working with teams, dealing with suppliers and customers, etc. Some jobs do allow for interesting problem solving, but there's no guarantee.

Physics is generally going to be more abstract and academic. This probably fits better with the stereotypical INTP, but I don't think I'd be happy doing that; it obviously depends on the person.

I don't know much about being an architect, but I imagine it leans more toward the form side of design, rather than function. Function, to me, is a much more interesting problem to solve.

I think you should do as much as possible to get a glimpse of what the various fields will offer you before you set yourself down a path. Get into the labs to see what upperclassmen are working on, and try to arrange visits to working offices, if you can. I would definitely talk to appropriate professors in each department. Say to them what you've said to us. Maybe even raise some of our points to get their perspectives.

Remember the old saying: Find a job you love and you'll never work a day in your life. There will always be unpleasant times at work, so it's not strictly true, but the reverse is. If you're in a job that doesn't suit you, you are going to be miserable.

Don't leave such a large decision to responses like this:

Applied physics is the shizzics. Do eeet!

(I mean no offense, but this IS a serious question that deserves serious responses)

Sorry to get all long-winded and serious but I've watched a number of friends and coachees (is that actually a word?) make uninformed choices at this stage. Years later, many are miserable and some are still not working steadily.

Edit: I also feel I should point out... Software Engineering is quite a bit different from the vast majority of engineering jobs, especially the more traditional, hands-on types, like Civil and Mechanical. Engineering is a very, very broad term/field. Look into more specific fields within engineering, as well.

Edit2: Is that Delhi, New York, Witty? I have relatives that passed through there, once upon a time. It's actually not ridiculously far from where I live, either.

 

[Glordag]

Physics is generally going to be more abstract and academic. This probably fits better with the stereotypical INTP, but I don't think I'd be happy doing that; it obviously depends on the person.

Remember the old saying: Find a job you love and you'll never work a day in your life. There will always be unpleasant times at work, so it's not strictly true, but the reverse is. If you're in a job that doesn't suit you, you are going to be miserable.

Totally agree with the above. I went into college as a physics major for no reason other than "it's interesting" and I could ace any math course through Calc 3 & Differential Equations with minimal effort. Long story short, I grew exceedingly bored with the reality of being a physics major, picked up a math double major, and graduated with a much lower GPA than I would have liked due to not being motivated by my field of choice. I attempted to go to grad school for Pure (Abstract) Math, and ended up just plain leaving in the middle of a semester because I completely lost track of who I was and what I was doing with my life. The work was very "doable", I just lacked any motivation to do it and became incredibly stressed.

I got a job out of college as a "software test engineer," and it's definitely not my ideal choice. If I had to go back and choose things again, I think I would do Biology with the idea of getting into Genetics or something similar. It turns out that I'm just plain more interested in the very deep, monotonous intricacies of that field.

The point is that you REALLY need to do this research yourself and ask people that actually make careers out of the fields. The idea of working on research projects at a notable particle accelerator in order to discover new and exciting particles or phenomena is awesome, but the reality is that you're going to be spending 99% of your time standing around watching electric cables or writing down the same symbol 100,000 times a day. You don't spend the majority of your work day in physics theorizing about some grand new idea, unfortunately.

Just be careful and get as much insight as you can . Good luck with everything!!

 

[Kuu]

Re: Engineering, Physics major or Architecture?

Well my question is simple. Which is better?

Well you are starting with the wrong question... I don't think it can be said that one is better than the other... they're all quite large fields, and there are many different ways in which one could practice them...

I'll talk about architecture since that is what I know of.

Architecture: Putting it simply, I can't draw for shit. But I've known people who have survived it without any notable artistic skills. Same queries here too.

*sigh* I have heard this so many times. It's so stupid and obnoxious for so many reasons:
a) You learn to draw by practice, and usually architecture schools provide you with classes so you can learn to draw...
b) Hand drawing in architecture is now mainly about quick diagramming, not the minutely detailed presentation drawings of ages past.
c) It is true that a lot of people can't draw for shit, even after classes, but still they can be good architects (and there are plenty of examples), because...
d) Nobody hand draws anymore anyway. Maybe a bit in the start, but the majority of work is done in computers. Nowadays you can be a completely digital architect and never have to draw at all, if you want...

When it comes to reading books and internet... I think that you can do that in any field of study. Procrastination is omnipresent.

I do think that finding satisfaction in this field is highly dependent on where one studies and where one practices; the quality and focus of education is extremely different from university to university...

Also I find it profoundly vexing that you do not further elaborate of why you even consider architecture and limit yourself to say "I can't draw"... So pray tell, why?


And now some comments on what other people have said, which inevitably turned into ranting since people shouldn't really talk about what they don't know...

Spoiler

Architecture isn't highly technical. It requires low-level engineering knowledge, but nothing in depth.

What exactly do you mean by 'technical'? The field of architecture is so large, there are many parts of it that in my opinion are highly technical... indeed it keeps becoming more and more technical, complex, and multidisciplinary over time...

Really? You don't need to have high dexterity and creativity? I always thought architecture was more aesthetics than it was practicality(well, besides being able to actually build the model).

I don't know much about being an architect, but I imagine it leans more toward the form side of design, rather than function

To make what could be a very long winded comment short: You two are so, so wrong.

I understand where the misconception arises, and even accept that there is a lot of rhetoric and debate and questionable work spewed by a lot of high-profile architects present and past that have let to this general disdain for the field architecture as a frivolous, pedantic, purely aesthetic pursuit... but that is not all that there is to it.

The question of form vs function is old, and also misguided. It's a false dichotomy. In any field of science you delve into, be it biology, particle physics, chemistry, nanoengineering or astronomy... you will find that the geometric nature of reality permeates everything and is inseparable from a things' working / function / effect. Change the arrangement of molecules and you end up with a material with completely different properties... The division is an entirely man-made concept and has been used to push diverse ideological agendas over history... Just because one person chooses to focus to some degree or another on the "form" or the "function" does not mean that the things are irrevocably separate...

I thoroughly dislike the lumping and dismissal of architectural design by many in the engineering professions as "art" (how I loathe that word). It is a conception born out of ignorance that reveals a fundamental misunderstanding, if not a deliberate attempt to not understand.

Architecture is an extremely complex analytical and synthesizing discipline dedicated to the manipulation of space-time-matter in order to provide an adequate vessel for the many diverse needs and desires of human civilization. The multiplicity of needs, techniques, systems, processes, materials and people one has to consider when creating architecture are so numerous, and the temporal and economic pressures so large, that truly exceptional architecture is few and hard to make. To dismiss it so easily is a slap in the face to a noble, hard working profession that is essential to society and yet so terribly undervalued.

 

[WittyUsername]

Let me clarify first that my high school education doesn't give any glimpse of what any of the courses will be like. So I can't tell you why I'm interested in any of these courses apart from the fact that since they involve logical thinking, I'm fine with that.

Let me also tell you how things work here. Its nothing like SATs. We have to sit for a 6 hour examination solving undergraduate level problems (phy,chem,maths).
Out of 400,000 students giving the test if you get in the top 5000 you get a seat at any of the top colleges. Your branch depends on your rank. Say I get a rank of 2345 I'm not getting Computer Science at any of the best colleges. I'll have to go for Civil or Electrical Engineering if I want a great college. But I can still opt for Computer Science but will have to settle for an inferior college. So it depends less on the choice and more on your performance on the exam which happens once in a year and can only be at most twice.

Many parts of engineering jobs will not fit well with the stereotypical INTP. Engineers are often at least partially hands-on, and generally have quite a bit of routine/boring desk work. The exact ratio depends on where you are and what you do; some engineers may be fully devoted to one or the other. There's often quite a bit of human interaction: working with teams, dealing with suppliers and customers, etc. Some jobs do allow for interesting problem solving, but there's no guarantee.

Physics is generally going to be more abstract and academic. This probably fits better with the stereotypical INTP, but I don't think I'd be happy doing that; it obviously depends on the person.

I'm generally fine with team work and handling people. I don't really see that as a problem. But right now I'm think I'll shift to management if I don't find jobs offered by Civil or Mechanical engineering fitting in my groove.

I know what engineering has to offer and what kind of a course it is. My family comprises engineers only. I'll be a third generation engineer if become one.
But I wanted to know if INTP's are comfortable working as one and I see they are.
I don't want to miss out on something which can been better for me as a person.

Edit: I also feel I should point out... Software Engineering is quite a bit different from the vast majority of engineering jobs, especially the more traditional, hands-on types, like Civil and Mechanical. Engineering is a very, very broad term/field. Look into more specific fields within engineering, as well.

Edit2: Is that Delhi, New York, Witty? I have relatives that passed through there, once upon a time. It's actually not ridiculously far from where I live, either.

1. Software Engineering is exactly what i have my eye on. But it depends upon my rank in the entrance exams. Computer Science is usually given to the best performing ones. I might opt for Electronics and Communications too. Also I was browsing through a college site and found "Information Technology" as a separate branch. Are you familiar with it?

2. No, this is the one in South Asia.

Well you are starting with the wrong question... I don't think it can be said that one is better than the other... they're all quite large fields, and there are many different ways in which one could practice them...

I'll talk about architecture since that is what I know of.



*sigh* I have heard this so many times. It's so stupid and obnoxious for so many reasons:
a) You learn to draw by practice, and usually architecture schools provide you with classes so you can learn to draw...
b) Hand drawing in architecture is now mainly about quick diagramming, not the minutely detailed presentation drawings of ages past.
c) It is true that a lot of people can't draw for shit, even after classes, but still they can be good architects (and there are plenty of examples), because...
d) Nobody hand draws anymore anyway. Maybe a bit in the start, but the majority of work is done in computers. Nowadays you can be a completely digital architect and never have to draw at all, if you want...

When it comes to reading books and internet... I think that you can do that in any field of study. Procrastination is omnipresent.

I do think that finding satisfaction in this field is highly dependent on where one studies and where one practices; the quality and focus of education is extremely different from university to university...

Also I find it profoundly vexing that you do not further elaborate of why you even consider architecture and limit yourself to say "I can't draw"... So pray tell, why?

Well I meant what is better for 'us'. Sorry for my vagueness.

Please be assured that I don't consider architecture as some lowly profession. I know how important a job of an architect really is. I see it everyday when my father is looking at residential plans and showing me how essential it is for an architect to know about the purpose and utility of any component of the plan.

Like I said I started preparing for my engineering exams which basically is physics , chemistry and maths. Now I don't know at what level my course corresponds to the one in USA but it's a bit higher than what I saw in some AP prep books.

So here, the syllabus for the architecture and the pure physics course is the same. My preparation will suffice for gaining an entry to these colleges.

I said I cant draw because I always saw architects having amazing drawing talent in movies.

I can't really tell you if I'm interested in it or not because I haven't experienced it and I don't know what kind of dynamics I will face. Not that I haven't asked people about it but it always leaves me more confused because I always get generic answers and not personalized ones. Hence, I ask here.

 

[Glordag]

Software engineering is boring, in my opinion. I took a couple of classes in college for it, and my current profession is very much in that general area.

I would urge you to keep exploring other options - lots of great areas for INTPs out there. I'd look into biophysics, genetics, pure & applied math, chemistry/chemical engineering, etc. I also wouldn't dismiss the humanities/arts right away, either. I never even considered those fields in high school, but I honestly think I would enjoy my life much more if I had at least considered those options, even if it meant a considerable decrease in income.

 

[lafmeche]

Let me clarify first that my high school education doesn't give any glimpse of what any of the courses will be like. So I can't tell you why I'm interested in any of these courses apart from the fact that since they involve logical thinking, I'm fine with that.

My apologies. The way your first post was written, I thought you were a college freshman who had not yet settled on his major. Things obviously work a bit differently here in the states.

Let me also tell you how things work here. Its nothing like SATs. We have to sit for a 6 hour examination solving undergraduate level problems (phy,chem,maths).
Out of 400,000 students giving the test if you get in the top 5000 you get a seat at any of the top colleges. Your branch depends on your rank. Say I get a rank of 2345 I'm not getting Computer Science at any of the best colleges. I'll have to go for Civil or Electrical Engineering if I want a great college. But I can still opt for Computer Science but will have to settle for an inferior college. So it depends less on the choice and more on your performance on the exam which happens once in a year and can only be at most twice.

So you're saying you would actually prefer CS and are just covering your bases if you don't get it?

I'm generally fine with team work and handling people. I don't really see that as a problem. But right now I'm think I'll shift to management if I don't find jobs offered by Civil or Mechanical engineering fitting in my groove.

I know what engineering has to offer and what kind of a course it is. My family comprises engineers only. I'll be a third generation engineer if become one.
But I wanted to know if INTP's are comfortable working as one and I see they are.
I don't want to miss out on something which can been better for me as a person.

INTPs can be comfortable. There are aspects that I like, and at least as many aspects that I do not like. The subject matter is interesting to me and useful in my entire life, which helped with my decision. I'm only a second generation engineer, but my father and most of my uncles are engineers, so I feel like I'm surrounded . I 'knew' I was going to be an engineer at a very young age.

1. Software Engineering is exactly what i have my eye on. But it depends upon my rank in the entrance exams. Computer Science is usually given to the best performing ones. I might opt for Electronics and Communications too. Also I was browsing through a college site and found "Information Technology" as a separate branch. Are you familiar with it?

I've heard different definitions for each, depending on who I ask. Sometimes they overlap (or are the same job), and other times they are completely different. Kuu may jump down my throat again for speaking out of turn here, but my understanding is that IT is more the technical support side of the field, Software Engineering is primarily development and programming, and Computer Science studies all aspects of computers - from theory to software to hardware.

Like I said, though, those definitions vary depending on person, company, location, etc. I can't say if the words mean the same there as here.

2. No, this is the one in South Asia.

That's what I suspected, but I was hopeful

Well I meant what is better for 'us'.

Don't get too hung up on this MB stuff. It's really not meant to stick us all in a neat, tidy box. I like to think of it as a convenient jumping-off point for discussion about the differences in peoples' personalities, and a beginning to understanding other people. Don't let it influence your life TOO much

blah

You're not even worth responding to. Reread my post and then let's talk about who's ranting. Better yet, let's not.

 

[Architect]

Software engineering is boring, in my opinion

That's a broad statement, as is true for any field it really depends on exactly what you are doing and who you're working with. For example, I'm presently working for a boss who basically lets me work however the hell I want to. I get up early, work from home, come in for a few hours to the office and basically shoot the breeze with him and my coworkers, go home and I'm done in the very early afternoon.

In terms of the work, he just give me problem statements of one or two sentences. It's entirely up to me to find a solution. For example, my recent work entailed inventing a new programming language. Perfect INTP thing to do, systems thinking, analysis and programming in the large. I've had a blast, and got paid a ton of money to do it.

Of course many software engineers aren't happy banging out webpages or whatever, and I've had periods of my job where I was extremely unhappy, but presently have to say it's pretty damn fantastic.

What's probably more important than the specific field is the details of who you're working with and what exactly are doing. Given that, I would say that being a software engineer is pretty ideal.

 

[Glordag]

Fair enough, but it's hard for me to categorize something like "inventing a new programming language" as Software Engineering as I learned it.

Peculiars of the job always matter, but when you're trying to pick a field while you're still a student, it's hard to go off of anything "particular"when you're considering a major. So, that being said, I think you are sort of required to speak in generalizations with this sort of thing.

 

[Infinite Regress]

2. I dont see any great job prospects after I graduate so is it a good idea to pursue a management degree and get huge sums of money at some bank? Because I dont think investment banking will be boring and it involves a lot of information collecting too.( i dont know shit.just saying stuff i think)

Depends on the eye of the beholder, but investment banking is actually quite boring, long hours (which includes weekends as well), have to be available for their every summons and you'd have to play to the politics. The profile banks usually look for in this are class captain, all rounder types with majors in finance/accounting/law. Math is not particularly desired.

On the other hand, if you choose the trading side of the banks then this is quite interesting if you have a strong math/comp sci background. The hours are basically market hours and the pay is awesome. I know a lot of quants who were formerly physicists. Some stay as analysts, others go on towards trading.

 

[Cogwulf]

Depends on the eye of the beholder, but investment banking is actually quite boring, long hours (which includes weekends as well), have to be available for their every summons and you'd have to play to the politics. The profile banks usually look for in this are class captain, all rounder types with majors in finance/accounting/law. Math is not particularly desired.

On the other hand, if you choose the trading side of the banks then this is quite interesting if you have a strong math/comp sci background. The hours are basically market hours and the pay is awesome. I know a lot of quants who were formerly physicists. Some stay as analysts, others go on towards trading.

When looking for university places, I went for an interview at the Imperial College London, and apparently a significant proportion of the engineering graduates get jobs as traders.
In fact half of the other applicants I spoke to that day said they didn't want to become engineers, they were just doing it to get into banking.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Go with anything that involves mathematics, statistics and computer programming. Such skills make a brilliant career.

 

[Jackooboy]

I know multiple graduated and talented architects... They are struggling to survive right now... I would pick something else. The building industry is going to be in a depression for years to come.

 

[WittyUsername]

I know multiple graduated and talented architects... They are struggling to survive right now... I would pick something else. The building industry is going to be in a depression for years to come.

Well, not in my country. Its in the development stage and with the goverment restrictions loosening up, high quality projects are coming in.

I think I'll be sticking with engineering. Pure research might bore the hell out of me and I'll be keeping architecture as a backup option if things dont work out.

Thanks for all the input.

 

[Architectonic]

(note, my username is irrelevant to this discussion)

The problem with architecture is you spend years studying it and then all your qualified to do is monkey work. The field itself is potentially creative, but it is so competitive and difficult to get jobs to do innovative design work. The reality is that if you are passionate, you will be doing that stuff in your spare time until, if/when you get a decent break.

Engineering itself also has a lot of uncreative work, but it is a lot easier to find a suitable creative niche in engineering, than architecture.

 

[WittyUsername]

UPDATE ::

So nothing happened as I had envisioned. Got selected in great engineering, architecture and law colleges (I have no clue how I got law). Toured those colleges, talked to seniors and graduates. Somehow I didn't like the whole 'engineering' environment. I don't know how it works at your place but I found most of the people zombie-like. Architecture was an option I deleted because of the narrowness of the field. Plus I wasn't interested in it anyway. Physics was a bit too specialized also . Finally I settled for a general course in physics,chemistry and maths in an awesome college. Anybody who may want to enlighten me can please do.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Just do something that is somewhat interesting and will get you a job. Otherwise, if there is no possible financial return such as courses like philosophy, there is not point in going to uni.

 

[WittyUsername]

Just do something that is somewhat interesting and will get you a job. Otherwise, if there is no possible financial return such as courses like philosophy, there is not point in going to uni.

I know. Had the option of philosophy too but declined it for the same reason.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

I know. Had the option of philosophy too but declined it for the same reason.

One of my intelligent friends undertook a degree in philosophy. Got very high marks and can reduce any debate to ad absurdum and subsequently, destroys any meaningful discourse. He went on to do a masters and did quite well. Now he is working behind a counter in a store like walmart and hating it. It amuses in a sadistic sort of way. One must remember that one does not need to go to university to study the classics or anything else for that matter. Just better to get a piece of paper that will provide a return.