ENFP mistyping as INFJ? Looks like I'm yet ANOTHER INFJ attracted to the INTPforum.

[kibou]

I've considered myself to be an ENFP for a couple years now, and really got into MBTI for a while now. Recently it was suggested I am an INFJ, and the more I think about it the more I'm believing it to be true.

I used to think that I was just an ENFP who had a lot of admiration for some reason of Ni and INFJ qualities, but I thought I used Fi over Fe. I emphasized my own personal values so much, that I thought it was a sign of Fi; but I'm starting to think that this is really Ni stubbornness (and my beliefs consistently center around Ni-esque paradigm shifting; change the essence by changing the perspective, but not the content). I've felt awkward pressure from a lot of SFJs, and felt resistant inside to their games of social reciprocation, so I thought I rejected Fe; but now I think my real problem was with the traditionalism of Si, and that I navigate the waters of rapport-building in my own way. I don't like conservative social rules, but I create my own social rules based on my perceptions of the natural law of human dynamics, and use a plethora of social cues to keep external harmony.

I used to think I was too tactless to be an Fe user; I think now, this has to do with my overuse of Ni, as well as the social isolation I've had when I was younger that forced me to play a "catch-up game" to socially interact in a way where I wouldn't be overwhelmed by the unaffirming energy I'd perceive from people around me. The loneliness I felt when I was alone also made me believe that I was really an extrovert; I would have a hard time being alone. But when I think about it, I get lost in my thoughts for hours and hours; if I am in the world of information and thoughts, I'm gladly alone for long periods of time, it's interacting with purely physical things (like cleaning up my room) that makes me feel lonely. When it comes down to it, when I'm on my own, I have a hard time initiating NOT being alone; my speculations go out of control and even if I have an optimistic reading of what would happen in the next situation, I have the hardest time initiating myself to that next situation. I thought I was a perceiver because once I'm in that moment and place, I'm perfectly happy to go with the flow of things and shift it toward the way I want. But the entire time I'm in the moment, I can feel myself both being present and acting; my form of social expression is pre-planned and is closer to method acting than genuine self-expression.

and Ne? I synthesize complicated viewpoints on the spot, so I thought this was Ne; but I think I really am pre-gaming with Ni (making the view while other people are talking, or from a similar conversation in the past), and then presenting it in a way that looks initially like an off-hand derivation of someone else's idea. My points seem to float up on the spot, but they always have an end destination based on the "greater idea", and I often am concerned with reaching this destination. It doesn't look this way, because I prefer to send my point in person through metaphor and other indirect methods; I feel the destination being met when the other person seems to have experienced the greater idea's thought. I may have fooled myself into thinking my Ni and/or Ti is Ne.

I have a lot of the stereotypical INFJ qualities & abilities: Ti precision with word for Fe tactfulness, psychic intuition & people-reading, Ni worldview stubbornness, knowing how other people feel more than how I feel myself). However, BEHAVIORALLY, I look, especially to others, like an ENFP. There's a lot of descriptive factors that sound similar on paper between ENFP and INFJ because of the NF priority, but the cognitive processes makes it look different. Most of my friends would read typical ENFP description and say that's definitely the one I am, because I like to inspire, because I like to look open, look free, go with my heart, etc. But I think this is more of an ideal image I picked up and designated as the "real me" - the "me" persona that I felt most comfortable expressing myself in with friends.

It's no surprise that many great actors/actresses are INFJs; Ni will internalize an entire persona down to the details and then actualize it in an internally consistent manner. But it sometimes makes me wonder, who am I, really? Who am I, beyond these dark paradigm-shifting thoughts and successful rapport-building with people I find as charming and authentic as they find my persona? Do INTPs pull this kind of thing as well??

I thought I might've been the unique, only ENFP that would bother venturing into an INTPforum...now I see I'm yet another INFJ who finds Ti very sexy. Damnit!

 

[Cognisant]

Commence the reprogramming!

Somebody tie him down

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I'll get the eyedrops and Beethoven .

 

[Adymus]

Kibou, even if you were an ENFP, you would not even have been close to being the only ENFP on this forum.

 

[GarmGarf]

Name and shame, I say (j/k, as I can act as a magnet).

 

[Zeldon]

Yeah... You sound like a genuine INFJ. I haven't seen them around the forums until recent... I was looking all over the place for them when I was having some mental issues, and now they start to pop up? Sheesh...

 

[Stoic Beverage]

Good to know that my brain is thought of as "sexy".

 

[kibou]

@Adymus Can we please make a list of the ENFPs? =D Where are they? I love chillin with INTP-loving ENFPs.

Do you believe I'm not Sparrow yet, BTW? :P I don't know if he ever showed his(her?) face, but didn't Pod'Lair type him/her as something other than INFJ?

 

[Adymus]

@Adymus Can we please make a list of the ENFPs? =D Where are they? I love chillin with INTP-loving ENFPs.

No I'd rather not.

Do you believe I'm not Sparrow yet, BTW? :P I don't know if he ever showed his(her?) face, but didn't Pod'Lair type him/her as something other than INFJ?

Actually that is precisely what we read him as, so you're not exactly saving your case.

 

[Zigomanis]

No I'd rather not.


Actually that is precisely what we read him as, so you're not exactly saving your case.

Addy, he's not Anamalech/Sparrow. I am. They can ban me to confirm this. .

Also, you're still full of shit. Thomas can go fuck himself .

It's clear that his worldview has taken over your teeny weeny worldview.

So promote your crap to your death like you said you would.

 

[JarNew]

Commence the reprogramming!

Somebody tie him down

you little alex dog you

 

[Nysamis]

Where are they? I love chillin with INTP-loving ENFPs.

Present. Longtime lurker here. (You'll have to play detective to find the rest of us, but that should be fun, shouldn't it?) Look, I even came out of Lurk Mode to say hi. We exist. Probably most of the ENFPs on this forum self-identify as INTP, some other type, or Type Agnostic. I did type as INTP for a season, actually. Not only INFJs mistype themselves as INTP, that's for sure. (This is probably why there are quite a couple ENFPs on this forum.) Ne is quite the cerebral process, so it can be mistaken for thinking. ENFPs with well-developed Te (or perhaps ones that overmodulate with Te) can mistake Te for Ti, especially if the external environment isn't too condusive to the articulation of Ne observations, which can seem non-sequitur to most. The "WTF" responses/head scratching ENFPs usually get from those is quite the buzz kill, so lots of ENFPs learn to keep their thoughts to themselves. This leads some to mistakenly think they are some sort of introverted type, just like you thought you were an extravert. I used to think I was an INFP, and then once I noticed I wasn't totally floored by anything remotely approaching pure logic, I thought I was an INTP. Once again, it's not just you. Type descriptions are mega-suck.

Actually, the INFJ-ENFP mistype is probably more common that you think. Not all the "experts" agree on former president Bill Clinton's type, but most of them think he is ENFP. Actually, he is INFJ. I haven't investigated too many politicians, but the vast majority of the ones I have seen video of are directive (aka J of some flavor). I find politics interesting in some sort of fetishy way, but I wouldn't run for any sort of political office if I lived for 80 million years. Someone who I could see being interested in that sort of thing if he didn't already have another forum to push his ideas would be Julian Assange, founder of WikiLeaks. A while back, someone found his OK Cupid profile (registered under a pseudonym). He took that really popular MBTI/Keirsey test there, and he got ENFP. Perhaps it's because they call ENFP the "Champion," or perhaps it's because both INFJ and ENFP both emphasize intuition over feeling.

Furthermore, most people do not understand the rather amorphous nature of the intuition functions. (One of my INFJ friends feels that no one truly understands him.) As mentioned before, these people will not validate Ne's possibilities or Ni's worldview. Your example is what usually happens when Ni doms articulate their visionary worldview to an Si user. They just don't speak the same language, which is only natural. I can only imagine the myriad of ways a society without Si doms could potentially implode/explode, or just 'plode.

Lots of the recent findings in science show how much humans are shaped by their environments. Subtle things such as smell, color, temperature, etc shape a person's mood, for example. Likewise, the way a person's cognitive functions develops is shaped by the environment said person grows up in. From what I've seen so far (which isn't much compared to the potentially infinite spectrum of how humans can develop), the Ne or Ni doms have the most developmental variation.

So this is why some INFJs mistype themselves as extraverts, sensors, thinkers, perceivers, or all of the above. The same goes for ENFPs.

Thomas can go fuck himself .

Now is time for a genuine non-sequitur. This expression has never made sense to me. Fucking yourself has another name: masturbation. Unless you're in some sort of repressive religious sect and/or you are one of those Victorian-style anti masturbation crusaders, you probably find masturbation is a very pleasurable activity. And if you are, you probably still find it pleasurable, but only before you need to say your Hail Marys. (Guilt's a bitch.) So "go fuck yourself" is basically a suggestion that the person you are talking to should go masturbate. This is not something you want to see your arch-nemesis doing. Plus, if your debate opponent removes hirself from the scene to take the suggestion, s/he will come back feeling quite refreshed and much readier for another round (of debate) than you, who have probably not relieved yourself in such a way. Really, this expression is secretly nice and considerate. Not a very good way to cuss someone out, if you're in to ad hominems. There are so many better ones out there! Go for the ones that are 100% malice-filled.

It's clear that his worldview has taken over your teeny weeny worldview.

Back to the actual topic. Reading into this perhaps more than you intended, it seems you are suggesting that it is somehow bad for someone's worldview to be influenced by and therefore changed by another person. This might not be what you meant, but you have to admit that people can read negative things into what you are saying.

Time for a thought exercise. Imagine a world in which no one is swayed by a person with a stronger worldview than their own. The Theory of Evolution would have died with Darwin. The American South and many other places in the world would be overrun with slaves, as no one would have listened to the first abolitionist to lend his voice and/or pen to the cause. All women would be in the kitchen making sammiches while lots of kids run underfoot. Or perhaps not, because no one would have listened to the guy who suggested that doctors should wash their hands before delivering a baby. Trepanation and other scary puke-inducing alternatives to modern surgery would be all the rage. People would still think demons are the nasty buggers behind all these illnesses, and shamans and other folk healers would be reaping the benefits while people of all stripes die at extremely young ages.

There are a lot of things about modern society that suck. But any sane person would have to admit that the alternative is worse. Modern industrial societies have lowered infant mortality to the extent that it is almost unheard of for a baby to die before they reach the age of 5. Most people get vaccinated, making it so modern societies as a whole are almost completely immune to diseases like smallpox and measles, which culled many children at a young age. Preemies used to have almost no chance at survival, and any sort of weird birth often led to the death of the mother, baby or both. Parents rarely have to deal with burying their child. The development of modern science had led to less human misery. And these are just the scientific examples. Very smart people have found working solutions to lessen the effects of racism, sexism, homophobia, religious intolerance, poverty, starvation, and other social ills. Are these still with us? Of course. But the cumulative effort made by people who saw a way to improve the destructive memes and societal ills of their culture was what got us the perks that us modern humans enjoy. This would not happen if we thought it was anathema to have our worldviews shaken up. The temporary chaos and cognitive dissonance that comes when your worldview encounters a way to expand can be painful, but it is much better than having the hubris and false sense of security that comes with thinking that everything you think is 100% true.

Look at Fred Phelps. Nothing will dissuade that man that America and the world at large is still OK even though gays can express their sexuality in public. He will not change his worldview, and his worldview is even weaker as a result. Even the most conservative Christians out there denounce that man and his corrosive worldview.

That example can appear too simplistic, as almost no one likes Fred Phelps. So let's take Darwin as an example. There were many things the guy didn't know, as he was the trailblazer of the massive amount of evolutionary research that has since been conducted. To the best of everyone's knowledge, he did not know about Gregory Mendel's groundbreaking research in the nascent field of genetics. Now imagine someone makes a time machine and/or anti-zombification resurrection machine that can bring a live Darwin to modern times. He encounters all these studies that have been built on the cornerstone of his Theory of Evolution via Natural Selection. Given all the evidence and reasoning behind these conclusions, would he dismiss the results? Any rational person would change their worldview based on sufficient persuasive evidence on why their current worldview is mistaken. So I would think Darwin would have been delighted to see the myriad of interesting directions his theory has taken since his death.

Darwin said something that was very wise.

It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change."

Basically, this is why even the most directive of humans can and should be adaptive at times. Existing with half a brain would make a worldview tamper-proof. But Nature has seen to it that all humans have ways to change their worldviews, no matter if the change happens as a result of an encounter with another human or not. Nature is a giant game, and the players in it must change or die. What Adymus and Thomas are saying is that they think they have found a better framework to approach life from. Why wouldn't they try to spread that?

By itself, the drive to spread one's worldview is amoral: neither good nor bad. The message could be "kill all the Jews" or "people ≠ farm equipment," but the dissemination mechanism is the same. People have ways to discern whether the worldviews they encounter are morally and/or logically deficient. You don't have to worry that people will automatically suck up every idea they are exposed to, which is the incredibly flawed argument that some morality crusaders (such as "violent video games → violent people") use. Sure, people can be incredibly stupid at times. But we wouldn't have survived on this planet for this long if we didn't have ways to instinctually understand which ideas are better than the ones that currently exist. Why wouldn't a good idea be implemented? People naturally want credit for their ideas, and an idea is just intellectual masturbation if it can't be implemented to benefit the society or its systems at large.

In the end, people will decide whether Pod'Lair theory is good or bad. If the evidence is strong enough, they will be won over. I don't see you proffering an alternative. If you want to fight in that arena, find your own idea that you think is better and push it.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

@ Nysamis,

Nysamis, no matter what gender you are, I am in love with you.

 

[kibou]

Haha Adymus I wasn't being serious! I know there's ethics involved and stuff with revealing type, and I know there are ENFPs floating around, I just haven't seen any posters listed as such or coming out as one (on the other hand, I think I've seen 3something posters identify themselves as INFJs originally mistyping INTP?). I guess I shouldn't talk in that kind of way online, where there isn't tone of voice to show how a statement should be interpreted. I hope you weren't offended by my tactlessness (sorry if I'm overreacting because I can't tell your tone online either!).


Nysamis, I need more people like you in person to just listen to all the time…I hope to run into your posts more in the future!

Do you think Ne is easier to articulate than Ni? I find often the only way I find myself capable of articulating myself is through stories of some kind. I can articulate the parts of the vision, to try to get across what makes it come all together. But there must be a more concise, breve, mature way of getting Ni points across…I don't know how to, and in result I come across as verbose (maybe rightfully so).

The trouble Ni dominants can have getting along with each other makes me feel we definitely need someone to ground society!

Ns or NFs mistyping themselves? Maybe that's why so many of us are interested in personal growth, we realize somehow that we have trouble figuring ourselves out.

Fucing yourself could be masturbation, but probably moreso if you had a chance to use some kind of penetrative device.

SI've thought other Ni-dominants were too stubborn about their worldview in the past, it's funny to realize now that was such a projection!


I think we often don't implement the best ideas for the sake of mental self-preservation. I think this is also why we have trouble self-improving ourselves as quickly as we're intellectually capable of doing; it makes us face shaky self-definitions or worldview-definitions and gives us anxiety. It feels better to feel for certain what we're doing right now is truly effective. So if we aren't invested in any viewpoint, then I think it's easy to follow the best one (to the best of our knowledge), but I think it's much harder to switch to the best choice once we've started investing in a decision we made.

 

[Zeldon]

Haha Adymus I wasn't being serious! I know there's ethics involved and stuff with revealing type, and I know there are ENFPs floating around, I just haven't seen any posters listed as such or coming out as one (on the other hand, I think I've seen 3something posters identify themselves as INFJs originally mistyping INTP?). I guess I shouldn't talk in that kind of way online, where there isn't tone of voice to show how a statement should be interpreted. I hope you weren't offended by my tactlessness (sorry if I'm overreacting because I can't tell your tone online either!).


Nysamis, I need more people like you in person to just listen to all the time…I hope to run into your posts more in the future!

Do you think Ne is easier to articulate than Ni? I find often the only way I find myself capable of articulating myself is through stories of some kind. I can articulate the parts of the vision, to try to get across what makes it come all together. But there must be a more concise, breve, mature way of getting Ni points across…I don't know how to, and in result I come across as verbose (maybe rightfully so).

The trouble Ni dominants can have getting along with each other makes me feel we definitely need someone to ground society!

Ns or NFs mistyping themselves? Maybe that's why so many of us are interested in personal growth, we realize somehow that we have trouble figuring ourselves out.

Fucing yourself could be masturbation, but probably moreso if you had a chance to use some kind of penetrative device.

SI've thought other Ni-dominants were too stubborn about their worldview in the past, it's funny to realize now that was such a projection!


I think we often don't implement the best ideas for the sake of mental self-preservation. I think this is also why we have trouble self-improving ourselves as quickly as we're intellectually capable of doing; it makes us face shaky self-definitions or worldview-definitions and gives us anxiety. It feels better to feel for certain what we're doing right now is truly effective. So if we aren't invested in any viewpoint, then I think it's easy to follow the best one (to the best of our knowledge), but I think it's much harder to switch to the best choice once we've started investing in a decision we made.

That pretty much explains it. I have been trying to establish this proper grounding for my existence my entire life, and I have a habit of getting rigid on my approach, because I do not possess the sort of thought flexibility that is more common to INTPs, and INFJs. INFJs are naturally focused, but INTJs are strictly passive in their thought orientation. When I initially got into the MBTI, I mistyped myself as an INTP. Most people online are not even honest about their type, regardless of whether or not they could get it right. I determined my type based on my experience, and through analyzing the various functions. I like to create base theories with my experience, and then test them against reality. I am the idea man you could say...

 

[dark]

I can see how ENFPs and INFJs can get mistyped. Like ENTPs and INTJs you are complete opposites. Well not complete but the same functions and just flipped I and E.

@ Nysamis, such a lovely post. Reminds me a lot of my English teacher that I had typed as an ENFP.

I think I may be the dumbest ENTP because I seem to never know enough. I would find it exhilarating to talk to any one of you I am sure, I love talking to intelligent people. But from my observations/reading a good way to find out if you use Ne as a dominate function is to watch how you interact with others. Stereotypically you will perform the Ne bounce that I have read about here somewhere about typing in real time. I am personally not to familiar with ENFPs since you seem very mysterious yet attractive at the same time but like Nysamis mentioned we get the "WTF" reaction quite a bit as a younger child and it makes us fall back to thinking we are actually introverted. Quite unpleasant until we realize our selves.

Like others have mentioned about themselves here I initially mistyped as INTP because I had thought I was introverted, no way I could be shy, that just seemed absurd! But after I learned a little more, not as much as the nice posts here, I realized who I was and I started working on my shyness. Now to take my experience and flip it around to understand what it was you went through. Now that you have come to this realization that you may not be an ENFP and quite possibly an INFJ, what will you do to benefit from this? Was there a problem before that you didn't realize and now do?

I have to agree with the point Nysamis made about being adaptive. I have wrote up a theory about how life formed, it is irrational I know but a nice idea (not the same as my mind/body theory). Life exists because it could harness the materials our world is created of and adapt a form that consisted of more complex forms, eventually becoming something in which we would consider to be "IT'S ALIVE!!!!" This adaptability is what eventually brought about all things. The very existence of our universe can be seen as such, change. Which is comparable to adaptability in a way. I think this is what truly keeps us from being capable of understanding how to create a true AI. The constraints of programming do not really allow for real adaptability, it can have the delusion-ed effect of change but it is restricted to the mathematics the programmer placed upon it.

Now that brings me back to my original idea of what life is. The adaptability of change. All things have this, so all things are capable of "life." We of course have discriminated against all other living things and have placed ourselves into a little box that we like to call "biological" life, but reactions of change exist everywhere, they adapt. Someday our star will not be so great anymore to sustain our form of "life." But it does adapt to still exist because it can not be removed, "matter can neither be created or destroyed."

For instance take the adapting climate changes and seasons. The earth at its 23.5 degree tilt gives it the seasons. The earth adapts year round unless you are amongst the middle between the tropics. Since most of the Earths population is part of the northern hemisphere I know most people where I live never think about how the rest of the world is adapting to the changes, in my winter, the south has summer, a very cool thing that would not be possible if not for the tilt, without a tilt, the earth would just have weather year round according to its position on Earth.

When in these drastic weather changes our bodies require a change, an adaptability. Elderly people are less capable of this so they either die or move to a more comfortable location, which is why I jokingly call Florida a retirement home, no offense to anyone living there, it is a beautiful place and I love the western ocean/sea from there. On a more serious note, people that live in climates of extreme cold have come to a better endurance of that particular weather condition via adaptability.

Albeit I have watched "Stan Lee's: Superhuman," television on the History Channel more than a few times and have seen some of possibilities of human adaptability and potential change.

@ Stoic Beverage, everyone's brain is sexy as long as it is being used.

I think I found a common misunderstanding with function labeling. Ti/Te is seen as thinking functions, but all functions deal with thinking, no? Ns have to do with thinking, Ss have to do with thinking, and so does Fs. T would be more of the rational. F the irrational human side (don't have a better description). S the view of the real. N the view of the what if. Or maybe I am the only one with the misunderstanding haha, always the possibilities.

The problem most people have with typology is reading the profiles and then finding the real them. The disclaimers do show a guided way of taking the tests. We can only find real truth by first understanding our true self. Without understanding that we could never have hopes in bettering ourselves, and it is well known that we all have flaws that can be overcome and strengths that we can make even stronger. I believe we had our functions, at least our dominate function at birth. I couldn't really figure out how we could exist without a function before we gained enough experience. It could be similar to how a child first gains the realization of self. Before it actually realizes that it has a body and that body was connected to its mind it would never before realize why that funny tentacle thing with five dangling items would sometimes appear when it felt an odd phenomenon somewhere. Then when it realizes that funny looking thing is actually its own self it starts to deduce other things about itself.

 

[Razare]

but I create my own social rules based on my perceptions of the natural law of human dynamics, and use a plethora of social cues to keep external harmony.

One point for INFJ right there.

Actually that is precisely what we read him (Sparrow) as, so you're not exactly saving your case.

That guy added me on MSN and would argue utter nonsense with me. First, he tried convincing me I was not an INFJ, which just further convinced me I was. Then he'd talk such crap about that system, even though I didn't really care. Then he'd make fun of me if I happened to help type someone on this forum (even though I don't use that system); I just had to ban him on MSN. If he's an INFJ, he needs to turn his third function on or re-evaluate his paradigm for viewing reality because its screwed up. If you're reading this Sparrow guy, view my statement not negatively but as a wake-up call, please. I'm an INFJ, and in the past I have had crazy views myself, it's part of the personality, but don't get so hung up on those ideas as to behave irrationally. It only does a disservice to yourself, especially on an INTP forum.