Empty words

[Fedayeen]

If someone is sick and someone says in response "I hope you get better" or someone has someone close to them and someone says in response "sorry for your loss" or someone is going to confront a bad situation and someone says "I hope everything turns out for the best" They are all things that I could never bring myself to say. They just seem so empty and meaningless. We are just saying them because we are supposed to not because we mean them.

Even here I notice people saying those things a lot. Am I alone in this?

 

[Marino]

I see what you mean, but the thing is... I think Fe types actually mean those words when they are talking with people they care for.

Being an Aspie & self-suspected Schizoid I am unable to feel sympathy or empathy so I cannot talk for other INTPs.

But yeah, I don't say those words for the same reason as you do: I would be lying.

 

[Fedayeen]

Actually I think it is more those with strong Fe

 

[Citizen X]

I only say those words when I really mean them, and I take special precautions to let the other party know I really mean them.

Not long ago I saw one of my few friends, who I haven't seen in a long time, he was in Italy studying. It was by mere chance I saw him on a book store and I told him "It's good to see you, and I really mean it"

If I don't mean anything, I don't say anything

 

[saffyangelis]

That's one of my problems with trying to explain that I really am sorry for someone, I'm always afraid that it'll come out sounding empty. I try to only say it when I really mean it, but I have had to say it just to get someone to stop talking about a really minor thing (for example, one girl I know who comes up with a new disaster every day, and I feel sorry for her, but I would be a lot more sympathetic if she didn't go on and on about it, and if it wasn't every single day something bad has happened to her).

I think people do say it a lot, but this is probably because it's not only the socially accepted thing to do, but most of the time, people do actually mean it, but the few times it's apparent they didn't mean it tend to stick in my (if not anyone elses) heads, so I don't know if this is just me, but it seems that people rarely mean it because I'm remembering the times they didn't better than the times they did.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

Yep and yep, Citizen and Saffy.

Just felt like agreeing. And I mean it.

 

[Fedayeen]

I have never actually felt any meaning in those words. Not even to my closest family/friends.

Though I am rather distant to even the closest people.....that is to say (I guess) that the closest people to me are still very distant.

Also "I love you" is another one. Though it does carry meaning the 1st time it is used in a relationship

 

[sagewolf]

If someone is sick and someone says in response "I hope you get better" or someone has someone close to them and someone says in response "sorry for your loss" or someone is going to confront a bad situation and someone says "I hope everything turns out for the best"

I don't think I use these in a hollow manner too often (although I probably do, sometimes, when I'm stuck talking to someone in real life). The people who would tell me about these kinds of situations are close enough to me that I do hope they'll get better, or feel sorry for them, or hope their lives will improve. Most people I deal with on a more superficial manner, and they just don't tell me these kinds of things. For the same reason I don't apologise to people very often: if I say "I'm sorry" then I actually am sorry-- if I'd joyfully do it again, I don't say anything, or I modify it to say "I'm sorry that I upset you," rather than that I did it at all. Usually when I have to feign empathy/sympathy, I say something along the lines of "wow" or "that must suck".

 

[Ermine]

When it comes to these cliche "empty" phrases, I usually use them for another person's benefit. While I don't necessarily mean them with every part of my being, I understand that many people would take an absence of an empty statement to mean the opposite, that I don't wish them well. This isn't true as I don't wish bad things on anyone. So using these empty phrases would be the nicest and most honest thing to do on my part.

On the other hand, this is one of the main reasons why I can't stand small talk. It's full of tons of empty phrases wishing me well, absentmindedly assessing my well being, asking about my life when they may or may not care. But perhaps that's just me assuming everyone thinks like me, when this is an unfair assumption.

 

[echoplex]

These phrases may not be very helpful, but they're not necessarily empty either. Whenever I say anything like that, I mean what I say. Like, I really do want them to get better. Still, I see what you mean. These phrases have become so automatic that they've lost any power they may have once had.

And I find that a better way to show someone you care is simply to help them whatever way you can, even if that means just listening to their complaints. This is usually the way I show compassion (if such a thing is even possible, heh). I may not have many sweet words to offer, but I'm always willing to listen and offer advice.

I think something that's at the heart of this topic is a real desire to revolutionize communication. I've been aware since I was little how fake so much of human interaction is. It's as if people are just trying to shove the right words into eachother's brains like workers trying to move the right units out of a factory. It's all very....industrial. Perhaps if people took a genuine interest in others this could be avoided. It seems that small talk is small because the degree of concern is small. And perhaps the relative nonexistence of the "small town" mentality contributes to this. We're simply aware of too many people to take an interest in most.

Hell, it seems that many care more about Jon and Kate than the people they actually come in contact with everyday. lol

/semi-rant

 

[snowqueen]

Like Echo, I only use these words when I mean them - I 'appear' to be remarkably empathetic for an INTP! But I think that comes from talking to a lot of people with mental distress - the 'mirroring' aspect of INTP has helped me understand how horrible it is for people to be ill or confused.

However, I have also found that despite behaving in a concerned and caring way, with some people if I don't say 'the words' they don't think I care. So with people it matters with I will say the words just to reassure them. But I'm also maybe different from other INTPs in that I do care a lot about the quality of human relationships even if I don't have such available feelings. But it's an intellectual concern - I really think the world would be a better place if people got on with each other better so I am constantly looking at ways to make that happen - starting with myself of course.

 

[Fedayeen]

When it comes to these cliche "empty" phrases, I usually use them for another person's benefit. While I don't necessarily mean them with every part of my being, I understand that many people would take an absence of an empty statement to mean the opposite, that I don't wish them well. This isn't true as I don't wish bad things on anyone. So using these empty phrases would be the nicest and most honest thing to do on my part.

On the other hand, this is one of the main reasons why I can't stand small talk. It's full of tons of empty phrases wishing me well, absentmindedly assessing my well being, asking about my life when they may or may not care. But perhaps that's just me assuming everyone thinks like me, when this is an unfair assumption.

The people around me know I don't say it because that is just the way I am.

 

[Citizen X]

I've been aware since I was little how fake so much of human interaction is.

I think this is a byproduct of living in a highly technological global society where people are clustered inside gigantic cities made of concrete and bullet proof glazing, where people know more about Britney Spears or the latest derivative bullshit from Britain's got Talent, than what they know about their neighbors.

Think about it, we live in a modern world connected via computers, cellphones, "tweeter", facebook and internet forums, we live in densely packed layers of housing, and yet, this is the only age where more people are feeling alone or disconnected, and I include myself in that category.

The way I see it, we have been pushed into a complex civilization that we are not designed to fully cope with, and it happened overnight. Not long ago most people's worries had to do with keeping food on the table and a place to sleep and the occasional revolt, but at least you had some time for yourself. Today we've got to worry about keeping our jobs, finding "success" (because it has been sociall agreed that's the only thing you need to do), getting on with the latest trends, mass social unrest, workers' strikes, terrorism, biological weapons, human trafficking, overcrowded cities, shopping malls, school shootings, information overload (with plenty of Spam) rape drugs slipped on your daughter's drink, hero worship, long winded work, pandemic unemployment, stock market crash, a crazy North Korean threatening to blow everyone up, teenagers on prescription drugs, child prostitution, nuclear weaponry, assisted suicides, work related insomnia, etc.

Gee, no wonder we have difficulties feeling empathic towards other people and bonding with them.

Not long ago the idea of death was terrifying, today it looks like a pleasurable retreat to many people. How can we feel empathic towards somebody who just lost his wife and children when many people are willingly looking for death itself?

I have a house in a small farming community, a couple of hours drive from my home. It's a small community and everyone there knows each other, everyone is on perfect terms with everybody and they don't seem to have problems communicating... you don't see that in big cities, in part because of the size and number of people, and secondly because, well, city life is just different.

 

[Kuu]

^ hear, hear.

Recently there has been a series of deaths for several of my acquaintances. I've never been able to say "I feel sorry for your loss" honestly, so I just don't say anything. Once, I was being pressured to say something and "everybody dies. accept that and move on" came out. People think I'm a monster.

I think that I shall never be able to say "I love you". Not only do I disagree with the whole concept, but in Spanish the phrase sounds utterly ridiculous to me.

The one hollow phrase that gets to me the most is the routine "how are you" greeting. It's such a stupid and empty formality, to pretend like you care. And people always say, "fine, and you?". If you ever actually start talking about stuff from your life, they never really care about it and just hold on until they can find an excuse to politely get the fuck away from you. Why can't we just get by with "hi" and/or silent nods, gazes of recognition? Why must we waste our breath on such hypocritical acts?

 

[snowqueen]

Not long ago the idea of death was terrifying, today it looks like a pleasurable retreat to many people.

that is a fantastic insight. My friend has just written a book about suicide - I will forward your post to him as he will really value it.

 

[Citizen X]

I think that I shall never be able to say "I love you". Not only do I disagree with the whole concept, but in Spanish the phrase sounds utterly ridiculous to me.

"Te amo" no suena tan mal

I use to say that to my ex, and I meant it before everything came down, but that's a topic for another thread.

 

[JoeJoe]

The one hollow phrase that gets to me the most is the routine "how are you" greeting. It's such a stupid and empty formality, to pretend like you care. And people always say, "fine, and you?". If you ever actually start talking about stuff from your life, they never really care about it and just hold on until they can find an excuse to politely get the fuck away from you. Why can't we just get by with "hi" and/or silent nods, gazes of recognition? Why must we waste our breath on such hypocritical acts?

I'm not so sure if it's common in Germany or if it's just me, but I always say the truth about how I feel. If I'm sick I say something along the lines of "stuffed", if I feel great I say "very good", if I'm in a bad mood I say something along the lines of "not so well". The good thing is: Only if I say I don't feel so well the other may ask what's up but usually the conversation goes on normally.

However, there was an exception yesterday:
Because it's near the end of the year, we went to an ice cream parlor with our physics class. On the way there I was walking alone, but because I was so slow the small group that was behind me soon caught up. Then one very nice girl (probably ENFP) who I don't know very well went up to me and asked how I was. I said I wasn't so well upon which she asked what's up. So far this could just be the usual empty words. But then I said that I wasn't really sure why I don't feel so well, that I probably just didn't sleep enough the last days and that it would probably settle down soon again. And the girl just asked something along the lines of:"Why, tell me more, what's up?" So I told a bit more, but I didn't really open up and didn't say what I really thought what the cause was but rather looked for other possible reasons for my bad mood. People like her let me feel as if I'm a total asshole. I think I would fall in love with her if she didn't have a boyfriend already (probably ENTJ).

 

[ntfbfi]

I don't say these phrases unless I got 'reminded' by others, like my mother etc. Then I would have to fake it and say these things just to be 'normal'. I don't do these meaningless talk, I dislike it very much. Guess it is the reason why it is hard for me to meet new friends.

 

[Claverhouse]

Banal formalities are the very life-blood of civilisation. Without the artifice of ready-made agreeable phrases to connect with others we would be forced to communicate sincerely and utterly honestly, mainly in grunts.

Authenticity is absolute; but sincerity is much over-rated.


Claverhouse

 

[Veritas]

I don't say anything unless I'm either using it for information gathering or, if on that extremely rare occasion, i actually mean it. After i figured out how much words meant to me, and how disconnected I was to everyone, I promised myself i wouldn't say anything that had meaning unless I was one hundred percent sure that it had value. It's one of the few promises i have kept to myself thus far and i'm glad i have, because many seem to say such words as if they can be tossed away easily and without a price...I don't think people know how powerful words can be, or how strong the nature of love and truth are...

 

[Vrecknidj]

I have several approaches.

First, there are those who know me intimately and deeply. With these people, I will say what I say because it's authentically what I want to say.

Second, there are those who believe they know me better than they do, and whom I have some fondness for (such as in-laws, for instance, or people who are friends of the family but are really only "good acquaintances" to me). For most of these people, the person that I am, and the person that they believe that I am, are slightly different. I have no problem speaking and acting as they person they believe me to be. I know that I do what I do, I do it consciously and purposefully, and it doesn't cost me or tax me. I've learned to be rather fluid in this regard. And, thus, from a certain point of view, this is actually just another part of me. So, in this case, I say what I say because of what they want to hear me say.

There are acquaintances whom I don't really know, but with whom I have not-irrelevant relationships (co-workers, people I've gotten to know at local stores, people in the neighborhood, etc.). For these people, I have a rather generic social persona, and so such words are ultimately rather meaningless for me, but I'll use them anyway because I have no problem with social niceties. It takes very little out of me, and they can pretend to be pleased to hear what I say. So, in this case, I say what I say because it's polite.

Finally, there are complete strangers. What I say to them depends upon the circumstance. If I see a frightened child who needs my help, I am compassionate and friendly and helpful. If I see an elderly couple, one of whom has just slipped in the rain and the other cannot help his spouse adequately, I behave and speak in helpful and courteous ways. If someone is pissing me off, I ignore them. In this case, I am who I need myself to be.

Dave

 

[Da Blob]

During one of my infrequent times of employment I was working a job that a robot could have easily done. However, I was a lot cheaper than a robot or so my employer believed. Out of boredom, I started to make an inventory of my work vocabulary. I found that I could go for weeks using a set of 87 spoken words, whereas my reading vocabulary is probably close to a million words.

I think a lot of cliche and stock phrases are not meant for true communication. It seems as though they serve a purpose as some type of social lubricant that reduces friction between individuals and allows one to 'slip' out of awkward situations...