does INTP can really make a c hange of himself for such a great challenge like lossing weight?

[lifeann]

I met this this INTP guy when I was in my second year college... He was my laboratory partner in Biochemistry class, we got along well. He became one of my close circle of friends, we hang out often with each other. I kind of like him before, but I had a boyfriend at that time. So I kind of cherish him as a platonic friend whom I can discuss wide variety of topics.... He's a very intelligent person. That was almost 9 years ago, we connected again at Facebook 8 months ago. We started chatting online and spent hours of conversation... It was really great to connect with him for many years... We were both single and looking for a serious relationship, and so the spark started with us, it's a mutual that we really liked each other... After those months, I feel so close to him, that if I almost wanna jump with total abandon with my feelings... We decided to meet each other for our first date... and it went finally two weeks ago... ..........I am not a shallow person, and I know how to see the intangible things a person posses. He has a great personality.... but somehow I was really shock to see him with a big difference of what he was before. Physically he is overweight now, it think he gained almost 50 kilos the last time I saw him 9 years ago, a very huge difference. We had a great time spending the date, but at the end, he ask me if I was frustrated. I answered him truthfully that indeed I am frustrated. I value so much physical fitness, and I told him that that size of him would get into trouble when he become older. He told me that he is bothered of it too, and that he is currently on a fitness program, he goes to the gym 4 times a week. And that 5 months of exercise would make a difference on his weight. I didn't had a comment on it. I do not know if he just said it because he was hurt, or in denial. I do not know also if he is telling me the truth since I we live almost 5 hours drive, and I do not know if he really does it. ( It shows that I don't have trust with him in this regard) He is really a special guy, and indeed I connect with him deeply... I do not want also to mention to him again about his situation (being obese) has made me re-think again as to become our relationship to the next level in the future. As I am not the kind to let a person change for me, and I do not want to offend him, as I already hold special feelings for him....... I do not really know whatt to do... as in I am stuck..... What if he isn't really going to the gym, or when he does go, sometime in the future. he would go lazy on it.... If our relationship goes on in the future, I don't want to be a bugger of him in going to the gym and take care of his physicality, that would be an emotional expenditure for the possibility that he might be offended.

I would love to hear advices from you INTPs.. thanks very much

 

[Taniwha]

May I ask what your MBTI type is please?

In the mean while, relationships that are based on physical features and status over personality and connection is doomed for failure, and is not the foundation of a mature relationship.
If fitness is a passion, then find something that you both enjoy doing together, but don't expect that him losing weight will be the ticket for a long term realtionship. One of the things that an INTP hates is being manipulated, especially emotionally.

I am currently studying towards becoming a nutritionist.
Diet roughly makes up about 70% of weight loss and weight gain, 30% is in the actual exercise itself. For a male, a daily calorie intake of between 2500 - 3000 calories (depending on his output) would be about right for weight loss, providing that he is eating a diet consisting of a healthy balance of proteins, fats and carbohydrates.

The best website by far on health and fitness is http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/index.html.

 

[lifeann]

INFP. although slight difference on F and T.
How can I let him pursue fitness?

 

[EvilScientist Trainee]

To be honest, you should ask if the weight is a problem for himself or for yourself?

Perhaps, he didn't even cared about being fat before. Of course, obese people are incredibly liable to a number of diseases, but you can get the point.

I think you should discuss at lenght about what made him develop a weight problem and how he feels about it. If you really like him, you should help motivate him and be there for him as well. Try making he understand what it means for you, as well.

It seems that he likes you, and vice versa. Calling him fat, even if only implicitly, may cause strong effects in his self-steem. No one becomes obese because they want to - This is often coupled with some emotional/social damage.

Also, keep in mind that gaining weight is really easy, while losing it is a arduous task. Also, being an INTP, he may be prone to leave things unfinished, so your support may be more important than you think.

All the best.

 

[Taniwha]

INFP?...

Well, this is interesting. I honestly thought for a second that you were an ESFX.

 

[Taniwha]

How can I let him pursue fitness?

Give him a logical enough reason.
Saying that he's fat and that he's not good enough because of it, isn't going to do it.

 

[pjoa09]

Provide evidence that sex will be frequent if he loses weight?

Or maybe just keep him occupied in something and he won't eat because he's too busy with it. I forget to eat sometimes.

Maybe you can get him to work out for a day and then hes going to get overly paranoid about his food consumption and end up consuming 500 calories a day because he knows his body burns too little.

 

[lifeann]

<a href="http://popie.mypersonality.info" target="_top"><img src="http://badges.mypersonality.info/badge/0/22/224321.png" alt="Click to view my Personality Profile page" border="0" /></a>


Here's my profile Taniwha... Well my primary concern of course is on health issues... I am in the field of Healhcare. To be honest, obese people can be most likely in and out from the hospital starting from middle to geriatric... I really value fitness, to the point of being so meticulous on what I eat. And even if I get very lazy on doing other things, I make sure not to set aside exercise. It has become a lifestyle. So definitely our values with regards to this is very opposing.

 

[lifeann]

INFP?...

Well, this is interesting. I honestly thought for a second that you were an ESFX.

My primary concern is the health issue. I am in the field of healthcare, I've seen lot of cases like that being in and out from the hospital at middle age and geriatric. I think just put so much value on fitness myself, I am very meticulous with regards to what I eat, and even if I get lazy on others things to do, I would not set aside exercise.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

I know this question has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

What did it mean when I lost 25 kg in mass when I stopped exercising?

 

[Taniwha]

My primary concern is the health issue. I am in the field of healthcare, I've seen lot of cases like that being in and out from the hospital at middle age and geriatric. I think just put so much value on fitness myself, I am very meticulous with regards to what I eat, and even if I get lazy on others things to do, I would not set aside exercise.

Ok,

I understand your concerns. I have had family relatives pass away from the onset health problems of obesity, and I struggled with childhood obesity myself. The problem with weight loss is that there is a large pyschological element to it.

20 minutes of cardiovascular exercise (which is hardly anything) and replacing fats, proteins and carbohydrates in reality is an easy thing to do. However, psychologically is a completely different story.

Monosaccharides (fructose) and disaccharides (sucrose) alongside with monoglyceride's (saturated fats) and MSG are highly addictive substances and can take a while to wean off, sometimes taking up to months.

You might be familiar with high fructose corn syrup, especially if you live in the states. Its practically in everything processed, its one of the sweetest things out there and its been considered to be as addictive as heroin. Its appalling how the FDA allows it to even be in food to begin with.
(I could go on forever on this subject...)

I think the worst thing that can be done to those that are over weight and suffering with weight problems is to villainize their problem. They get a hard enough time as it is. That's why I recommended that you needed to find something that you both enjoy doing together.

Whats the first thing that comes to mind when you think exercise?

For many its;
Sweat, tiredness, short of breath, sore muscles etc.
Everything negative.

How about diet?

However when you do something that you enjoy, such as Boxing (I do Boxing) for an example I think;

Fun, exciting, learning, freedom, fighting, winning, getting stronger and fitter, hanging out with my buddies etc.

Because I enjoy doing it, everything starts to revolve around it, that includes my diet. Because I know with a lousy diet my training is going to suffer and I won't be able to enjoy the sport as much as I should. As a result of that, everything else benefits such as my mental health and my ability to study better, thanks to my diet.

Regardless of personality, health and fitness needs to be viewed as a positive release, not as a chore as its currently being made out to be.

 

[Jennywocky]

I do not want also to mention to him again about his situation (being obese) has made me re-think again as to become our relationship to the next level in the future. As I am not the kind to let a person change for me, and I do not want to offend him, as I already hold special feelings for him....... I do not really know whatt to do... as in I am stuck..... What if he isn't really going to the gym, or when he does go, sometime in the future. he would go lazy on it.... If our relationship goes on in the future, I don't want to be a bugger of him in going to the gym and take care of his physicality, that would be an emotional expenditure for the possibility that he might be offended.

I would love to hear advices from you INTPs.. thanks very much

Yes, people can lose weight and keep it off. It depends more on the specific individual.

However, as well you seem to realize, you can't base a relationship on the assumption someone might do something. Their choices are always in their hands. The question more is, can you love him regardless of whether he is skinny or fat, and to what degree... and how does your answer mesh with your life goals?

If the relationship is going to hinge on him staying skinny, it probably would be a bad idea to pursue things further unless you'd be willing to potentially be unhappy or else end the relationship when it goes somewhere you don't want to go.

INFP.

Yeah, I was seeing some of that in your post.

If you're a typical INFP, I would really advise you not to fall into that pattern of being unhappy with something but being kind of vague and positive about it externally in your normal bent of trying to be encouraging. He probably won't be able to see through that and will be misled about the depth of your discomfort with his weight issues.

 

[Nibbler]

I don't think he's serious about losing weight and is in denial for one glaring reason:

He failed to warn you.

Keep him as a close friend. Do not go any further with him or you will lose this rare life connection.

Good luck.

 

[Bird]

Here I come with all my feelings; if he were
that special, you wouldn't want to change
him.


No one keeps their looks forever.

 

[cheese]

^No one looks exactly the same forever.

I've seen some pretty good-looking octogenarians. Not to be creepy, at least not intentionally, but some people still look attractive, or at least good, when old. Bone structure and bearing play a large role.

 

[Nibbler]

Here I come with all my feelings; if he were
that special, you wouldn't want to change
him.


No one keeps their looks forever.

I've seen this sentiment on this thread a time or two. My intuition tells me she's not concerned with his looks. I think she is crestfallen since she finds self-respect in personal health.

I have to admit, I can't be with someone who treats their one body for their one life like a dump*. "You have low expectations for yourself, and I must be part of those low expectations? Is this what we have to look forward to? No."

Except she can't just say no as an F because she is also trying to feel his potential pain by her stance. She's feeling the guilt as an F.

*edit: dump can also be drugs, alcoholism, junk-culture, etc.

edit2: OP you have a personal right to your need to be with someone of strong will and not have to fix him. He has his rights, too, but this thread is about you, not him. So don't feel guilty.

 

[EditorOne]

He'll respond to logical argument, but there's a problem. Since losing weight and keeping weight off are both long-term projects and boring as hell in many respects, he may not be capable of the prolonged focus needed to develop what I'll call good eating and exercise habits. This is especially true if eating, to him, is a way to mitigate boredom. Some INTPs get into alcohol in a way that superficially resembles alcoholism, but I'm told is actually more like an attractive escape from boredom and frustration, especially since it provides a cover for indulging our emotions or something. Really, I didn't get into it enough to do more than say INTPs have odd ways of dealing with life sometimes, but the point is: Whatever he's doing to add weight may be so easy and fun that turning it around could be very, very difficult. While the principle that seriously obese people (as opposed to carrying around an extra 10-20 pounds) face life-threatening consequences is true, and while he may acknowledge the truth of it, none of those consequences are immediate.

On the other hand, a physician may discover he's got some simple metabolic thing going on that can be adjusted.

What might work: Suggest he seek professional advice on what's going on with his body and what can be done about it. The hope is for a relatively simple fix that doesn't require hours of boring exercise every day. (Is it just me, or is this an INTP thing? I don't mind physical exertion at all, I quite enjoy it, but it needs to be part of something else worthwhile, not exertion for its own sake. That always seems to me to be a waste, some kind of perversion of the Puritan work ethic: Why am I lifting weights when I could be doing something useful like moving rocks to build a foundation for a new porch?)

 

[Nibbler]

(Is it just me, or is this an INTP thing? I don't mind physical exertion at all, I quite enjoy it, but it needs to be part of something else worthwhile, not exertion for its own sake. That always seems to me to be a waste, some kind of perversion of the Puritan work ethic: Why am I lifting weights when I could be doing something useful like moving rocks to build a foundation for a new porch?)

I guess it's all in how you perceive it. I see the strategy and system (INTP) of manipulating my body with exercise. I don't enjoy exertion for its own sake. But I like it knowing I just did something to my system.

And since I've had my own near-deadly health problem (from unrelated issue), I see even more usefulness in running until I want to puke.

I know if I'm lying on my early death-bed knowing I contributed to my shorter life (all available time to dent the world now over), I am going to be pissed.

 

[lifeann]

I've seen this sentiment on this thread a time or two. My intuition tells me she's not concerned with his looks. I think she is crestfallen since she finds self-respect in personal health.

I have to admit, I can't be with someone who treats their one body for their one life like a dump*. "You have low expectations for yourself, and I must be part of those low expectations? Is this what we have to look forward to? No."

Except she can't just say no as an F because she is also trying to feel his potential pain by her stance. She's feeling the guilt as an F.

You exactly draw this one from my mind Nibbler. Thanks.




I dated the "regular Joe" and some good looking guys before, but in the end they bore me a lot because there was no connection like I have with this INTP.... it's the thing that made him special.... This connection weigh more with that fitness issue or anything...

Obesity is a stigma in our society today... I am sure he already suffered a lot of blows from it... I do not want to add. If he goes to a fitness program, I would be the first to be highly supportive for him... The thing is how to be without sounding demanding, offending him. I am afraid he might be frustrated with me, and let acceptance an issue. How to make it appear subtly? specially to an INTP. Perhaps some good techniques... This fitness issue is terrible for me to experiment... ( I have always my feet on his shoes) But I am willing to try...

 

[lifeann]

Ok,

I think the worst thing that can be done to those that are over weight and suffering with weight problems is to villainize their problem. They get a hard enough time as it is. That's why I recommended that you needed to find something that you both enjoy doing together.

I think this is a very good recommendation.... I could do this perhaps when we decide to live closely to each other... Thanks

 

[lifeann]

If you're a typical INFP, I would really advise you not to fall into that pattern of being unhappy with something .

Yeah, I recognize that pattern in me... Thanks for reminding me again to stay positive

 

[Dimensional Transition]

(Is it just me, or is this an INTP thing? I don't mind physical exertion at all, I quite enjoy it, but it needs to be part of something else worthwhile, not exertion for its own sake. That always seems to me to be a waste, some kind of perversion of the Puritan work ethic: Why am I lifting weights when I could be doing something useful like moving rocks to build a foundation for a new porch?)

I started exercising in a fitness-school thing today(they even had motivational posters saying cliché shit like 'PAIN IS BUT AN ILLUSION' haha), because I want to make my body a little stronger. All other guys my age seem to have (at least a little bit of) six packs, and are easily able to do 20 pushups. I'm formless and I can't do a single pushup, it pisses me off. I'm not even fat, I have normal weight and length, just no muscles, it feels weak.

That's enough motivation for me to keep exercising until I have achieved enough strength for my taste. Also, I detest shallow people, but I can't ignore the fact that women will more easily fall for guys with a better body, I mean, I'm also attracted by women with balanced, healthy bodies who don't look weak. Another motivation to keep exercising. AND the endorphin high you get from exercising is wonderful.

Sorry for being a little off-topic.

 

[Taniwha]

I started exercising in a fitness-school thing today(they even had motivational posters saying cliché shit like 'PAIN IS BUT AN ILLUSION' haha), because I want to make my body a little stronger. All other guys my age seem to have (at least a little bit of) six packs, and are easily able to do 20 pushups. I'm formless and I can't do a single pushup, it pisses me off. I'm not even fat, I have normal weight and length, just no muscles, it feels weak.

That's enough motivation for me to keep exercising until I have achieved enough strength for my taste. Also, I detest shallow people, but I can't ignore the fact that women will more easily fall for guys with a better body, I mean, I'm also attracted by women with balanced, healthy bodies who don't look weak. Another motivation to keep exercising. AND the endorphin high you get from exercising is wonderful.

Sorry for being a little off-topic.

I had the opposite problem, I was too fat. The main thing is to sitck at it and don't worry about what others think, when you are doing psychical exercise you need to put yourself first, you are doing it for you. I know I don't go off and Box or kick butt in the ring at Muay Thai to pick up blokes. I go there to beat up blokes .

As long as you enjoy it, everything else will take care of itself.

 

[a detached retina]

^No one looks exactly the same forever.

I've seen some pretty good-looking octogenarians. Not to be creepy, at least not intentionally, but some people still look attractive, or at least good, when old. Bone structure and bearing play a large role.

I've seen some pretty hot dodecogenarians, but then I'm a necrophile.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

I had the opposite problem, I was too fat. The main thing is to sitck at it and don't worry about what others think, when you are doing psychical exercise you need to put yourself first, you are doing it for you. I know I don't go off and Box or kick butt in the ring at Muay Thai to pick up blokes. I go there to beat up blokes .

As long as you enjoy it, everything else will take care of itself.

I'm doing it for myself. It's more of a self-confidence thing I guess, I'll just feel better about myself if I know I'm in good shape. I've been rotting away behind a computer for too long. It's good to start exercising BEFORE you become 'fat', too I think. Plus those exercise machines are fun, I don't even know why.

 

[Saeros]

Sure, he is more likely to get some diseases because he's fat. He could die of heart disease, or high blood pressure, or a stroke; or he could get hit by a bus, get into an aeroplane that crashes, he could eat something the wrong way and choke, or go to a bad restaurant and die of food poisoning, etc... I could keep going like that, but I'll keep this as brief as possible. We're all "ticking time bombs", so to speak. Being physically fit doesn't make you immortal, and it doesn't help at all when you're dead, and rotting under the ground. Also, if you only want someone when they're attractive, what will you do if he get maimed in an accident, or has a stroke and can't take care of himself anymore?

 

[Thoughtful]

For Workouts, make it interesting. I get most of my excessive from running around the foothills and mountains near my home and from a rock climbing wall downtown. I could never get into the whole "Exercise for the sake of fitness" thing, My mind needs stimulated.

For Diets: Has anything changed in what he eats since he saw you last?
As an INTP, I find that I can't be bothered to prepare meals, it takes too much time for too little reward. Instead I tend to snack a lot, and when I was working full time, I also started getting fast food out of convenience. I had the good fortune to be raised on healthy snacks parents are supposed to teach their kids to eat: Apples, bananas, milk, whole wheat crackers, etc. Those same snacks make up a large part of my adult diet. But if he's used to snacking on pop, potato chips, and fast food, I could see how it could quickly become a problem for him.

If you want to help him change, find out what his eating and snacking habits are.

 

[SkyWalker]

Just give him a few good books on bodybuilding? If he's really INTP he will love to explore new theories. He just needs the rational theories of how to do it, if you give it he will embrace it. In no time he will be a nutrition and training expert. And then the body will follow, just a matter of time