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Do you think in words or pictures?

Absurdity

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Same - or at least I think in pictures to a greater degree than most people I know.

It's partly why I love cinema so much, and I think it's why I love comics even more. I remember the first graphic novels I read being a major revelation, as it felt like it mirrored my thinking processes really closely. Lots of ideas followed, as it's just a language I can work with.

I've been thinking about this a lot the past few days and realize my thoughts are similar to films in some ways. Perhaps dream sequences. There are images but sound also plays an important role, especially when I write. It's as if I'm transcribing an inner monologue that I "hear" more than consciously think out.

I haven't read many graphic novels besides Watchmen. Any suggestions?

I'm pretty sure I'm an Ni-dom, INFJ more than likely.

I could see it.
 

TimeAsylums

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http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/2009/06/creativity-for-non-visual-thinkers.html
Verbal thinkers tend to have less trouble than visual thinkers in conventional K-12 school tasks... but if visual perceptual and organization problems also exist (e.g. nonverbal learning disabilities), more struggles await them in their adult years, driving and reading maps, reading the emotions of their co-workers, bosses, and family members, and keeping their home and work life organized.

The two most important factors we have seen in these individuals' success relate to metacognitive ability -an ability to reflect about their own thinking processes, recognizing their strengths and weaknesses (build on strengths, accommodate weaknesses) and external supports (helps when needed from loved ones - parents, siblings, spouses, professionals, business partners) if and when needed.

We know and have learned of many highly (and sometimes exclusively) verbal thinkers working in various diverse occupations - academia / research, law, business, education, writing, science, math, and computers and engineering. Many of the most successful verbal thinkers capitalize on their strong memories, pattern recognition, reasoning and analytical abilities, and eye for detail.

Verbal thinkers tend to wrestle with ideas through talk, debate, or writing. Brainstorming may take place through conscious chains of deductive thinking, word play or conscious manipulation of words (e.g. drawing verbal analogies),or even verbal brainstorms (e.g. freewriting)in which loosely associated words, digressions, phrases, etc. are written down to open ideas up about a problem or question. impression.

How common is it to not be able to make images? A number is hard to generate as a continuum seems to exist in individuals' image-making ability. At least when we have asked, there always seem to be at least a few people who report that they are unable to make images in non-selected groups of 100.

Some people who don't have pictoral visual images also tell us that although they never get "snapshot" pictures, they do have non-visual imagery (auditory, somatic/ kinesthetic) or strong associations (e.g. feelings emotions, spatial / symbolic representations)that are integral to their thinking style.

Interesting, there was once intense debate over whether visual imagery exists and has a functional importance in the brain(for more, see this). Presumably one the most strident advocates of the anti-imagery position, cognitive psychologist Zenon Pylyshyn, did not have pictoral imagery:

"It is argued that an adequate characterization of "what one knows" requires the use of abstract mental structures to which there is no conscious access and which are essentially conceptual and propositional, rather than sensory or pictorial, in nature. Such representations are more accurately referred to as symbolic descriptions than as images in the usual sense. Implications of using an imagery vocabulary are examined, and it is argued that the picture metaphor underlying recent theoretical discussions is seriously misleading, especially as it suggests that the image is an entity to be perceived."

better clarification for non-pictorial/verbal vs picture/images thinkers.

I am of the former, it takes a massive amount of thought for me to create an image...idk.
 

kvothe27

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It depends on what I'm doing, but it's primarily visual. I'm very bad at remembering terms and definitions, but I'm fantastic at remembering faces and concepts (I come up with visualizations for math and programming concepts, and it's actually a lot of fun to do so). According to my functions test, I have a well-developed Ni (behind Ne and Ti).
 

Hadoblado

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I find it very difficult to visualise anything for more than about a tenth of a second. Funnily enough, I still do very well at spatial reasoning tasks, but the emphasis is on the reasoning; I approach it by applying rules rather than manipulating an object in my head.

As for thinking in words, I do it a lot more than I do visualisation, but I'm not sure whether it's my natural state of thought. I monitor my thoughts for inconsistencies using words, but I think I process most things without them. It's only if I'm proof-reading my thoughts that I bother symbolising, though admittedly I do this a lot.
 

TimeAsylums

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http://www.bfskinner.org/bfskinner/PDFBooks_files/William James Lectures.pdf

Table of Contents prior to page 1


page 147: Thinking in Words


Okay read, very quick

Addresses subvocalization (subaudible verbal behavior) etc

p.150 Skinner:
"It is a great mistake, therefore, to argue that thinking is
The hypothesis that thinking is subaudible talking is only half
right. It correctly identifies a covert activity as a species of, or
a special magnitude of, behavior, but in using it to replace a mental
process it confuses an effect with a cause. Mental processes are
replaced in a science of behavior by the independent variables, by the
relations in which they stand to behavior, and by the processes
through which the relations are altered. If we were to build an
analysis of verbal behavior around these processes, we should have
special sections for the acquisition of speech, for the development of
fine discriminations, for the analogical extension to new stimuli, and
so on. In the present case we have appealed to these processes as fun-
damental principles in the science of human behavior as a whole. Our
classification has been based, instead, upon the types of variables.
These are the precursors of verbal behavior which account for the
final form which we observe. The idea expressed by a verbal response
is in this sense merely the set of its determining conditions. These
are not in themselves verbal at all.
Subaudible behavior is simply a kind of verbal behavior. Like
whispering, it is distinguished by the energy level or the extent of
execution of the response.
subaudible talking."
 

Paradox42

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I only just today learned that people could think purely in images/symbols. It was a bit shocking. I have lived 30+ years of life and never thought you could think without words.

For me most of my thinking is an internal audible monologue. I talk as if I am talking to someone else but also listen as if I am listening to someone else, but at the same time I refer to myself as i/me/my/etc.

Imagery is sort of hard and easy for me. Ask me to imaging something and my mind can create an image very fast but it is very hard to hold onto that image. It’s like it is moving and changing and becoming transparent or more defined as I try to hold the image in my mind. It is the same when trying to remember things I have seen; the remembered image is often blurry or knowingly wrong (like something is inconsistent with reality). This is why I am never certain about my visual recollection of thing more than a few minutes old.

I am able to replay audio (music) in my mind with full detail if I am very familiar with it, which can be nice if you are without music and have nothing to do (a passenger in a car for example). You can just play back the music and daydream. :)
 

Cavalli

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I nearly always think in words, also with the internal sort of monologue. I can visualise things if I concentrate, however I find that I get side tracked very easy when thinking visually. When I think in words, as I naturally do, I can do a range of other things at the same time.
 

DIALECTIC

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Prior to meditation (2 years ago), i used to think mainly in full sentences / words (hence countless monologue in my head) with some intuitions / emotions here and then. Nowadays (2 years later) i think mainly in images / intuitions / emotions and the odd words now and then.

I think i switched from being mainly left brain dominant to right brain dominant...

However when thinking in words / sentences i found myself a lot more productive / motivated / aggressive / driven towards absolute goals. When thinking in intuitions / emotions, it is more like a relative escape to reality...
 

PmjPmj

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I had an interesting conversation with my oldest friend (an ISTP) a year or so back; I think by way of images - my imagination is so vivid that I can literally project whatever is in my mind's eye over reality, giving the sense of being in multiple places (experiencing different things) within the same moment.

My ISTP friend, however, thinks entirely in words. He says it's impossible for him to conjure up mental images; at best, he can see an image of a word... but that's it.

Fascinating in my opinion.
 
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I only just today learned that people could think purely in images/symbols. It was a bit shocking. I have lived 30+ years of life and never thought you could think without words.

For me most of my thinking is an internal audible monologue. I talk as if I am talking to someone else but also listen as if I am listening to someone else, but at the same time I refer to myself as i/me/my/etc.

Imagery is sort of hard and easy for me. Ask me to imaging something and my mind can create an image very fast but it is very hard to hold onto that image. It’s like it is moving and changing and becoming transparent or more defined as I try to hold the image in my mind. It is the same when trying to remember things I have seen; the remembered image is often blurry or knowingly wrong (like something is inconsistent with reality). This is why I am never certain about my visual recollection of thing more than a few minutes old.

I am able to replay audio (music) in my mind with full detail if I am very familiar with it, which can be nice if you are without music and have nothing to do (a passenger in a car for example). You can just play back the music and daydream. :)

My experience almost exactly; just less adept at total musical recall. The vocals will be pretty clear (including chorus and back-up singers) but not the instrumentation. A cappella basically. If I try to focus on instrumentation, I lose the words (it's like my mind cannot process all track layers).
 

Suicicidad

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I don't usually post, but here's my two cents if anyone is interested. I'm just back from continental Europe, and as a result I can say with confidence I definitely think in words due to the plethora of languages I encountered. I have some broken French, some German from school et.c, but English is so darn simple it would be inconceivable not to be able to get what you need. Anyhoo, now you can see why I don't post :)
 
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Can one who is heavily audio (word / self-talk) dominant learn to switch to visual; or balance it out? One post mentioned meditation which, for me (when I did it), did cause vivid auto-generated images but nothing I could control (just random aesthetic imagery and colors). Also people I know, when reading, actually see the events play out like a movie. Has anyone "learned" to do this?
 

Ex-User (9062)

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Prior to meditation (2 years ago), i used to think mainly in full sentences / words (hence countless monologue in my head) with some intuitions / emotions here and then. Nowadays (2 years later) i think mainly in images / intuitions / emotions and the odd words now and then.

I think i switched from being mainly left brain dominant to right brain dominant...

However when thinking in words / sentences i found myself a lot more productive / motivated / aggressive / driven towards absolute goals. When thinking in intuitions / emotions, it is more like a relative escape to reality...

I definitely agree.
I may have been more successful with the word-based thought
(which i regard as a way of thinking forced upon me via the school system), but the big problem for me was,
that very often i would lay in bed, following trains of thought, sentences rushing, dragging my attention along for hours and hours
without any way of shutting myself up and get some sleep.
Since i have shifted back to visual thinking, i can get sleep more easily and have vastly more vivid dreams,
which is perhaps the most precious thing to me at this point in time.
 

TBerg

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I have difficulty believing that some people lack thoughts in a specific medium of perception or cognition. Our brains carry entire gargantuan constellations of associations with certain concepts. I don't think whole sections of our brain are dead. Certain functions might be more involved in certain brain processes, but we all experience all of the functions in different relative magnitudes.
 
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I definitely think in words. As others have mentioned, I can picture things quite easily should I desire to (I daydream - in picture of course - on daily basis), but words are dominant.
 

The Void

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I think in both pictures (animated) and words. :D
 

Latte

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Heavily word-including or word-centric thought seems to bottleneck me enormously and make my cognition inefficient compared to intuitive thought with quasiphysical experential and working and long term memory aids (quasiphysical inside mind, that is). Conscious manipulation of the quasiphysical being willfully directed / planned cognition.
 

Anktark

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I would say I have different modes for different problems/areas. But overall I estimate myself to be around 35% words, 20% visual and 45% unsymbolized. And it's true that an unsymbolized thought is hard to express, because I have to rethink it differently in another way. Might also be one of reasons why I keep forgetting words.
 

The Void

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In think silly things in audio or by visualizing words or just with intuitive feelings,
When I get too serious, I think in video format.
 

Grayman

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Almost exclusively pictures. It's difficult for me to imagine what thinking in words would be like.

This (among other things) has led me to wonder if I'm Ni-dom.

Maybe I'm Ni-Dom???

Spatial is important for trying to understand a complex problem. Words are too linear to capture most concepts. I do convert concepts to words to also understand it better that way but it is not the method of creation but instead validation.

I would think all intuition would be images of sorts and all thinking would be words. As far as how I understand the parts fo the brain the subconscious or the brain that does the thinking subconsciously is the same part that does the spatial processing.
 

Cherry Cola

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thinking about this more I've concluded that I typically start thinking in words and then gradually go over to think in images if I stick to the subject I'm thinking about for a while
 

TimeAsylums

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I would like to clarify, for those of you not reading the rest of the posts after the OP

as I have reiterated, by words vs pictures I meant

unsymbolized/categorical/non-pictoral (words) vs pictures/images/

some people might actually SEE words, or only focus on words, and obviously these two categories are not enough to contain all the types that could possibly exist so I furthered it to all the types listed on wikipedia.

Also, for further clarification, AFAIK, I can find no correlation of type and thinking YET. My data size is incredibly small, as is some people's and my own capacity to explain the types of thinking.

Including links I've already posted:

creativity for non visual thinkers

thinking without words

visual thinking - wikipedia


Thus far I've had INTPs on both sides, obviously including other categories, A shit load of Ni doms on the visual side, an ENTP (habitat) on the visual side, me on the non-visual/verbal/categorical/unsymbolized side. The wikipedia link seems to give somewhat-idk-if-reliable statistics, but there you go.

wiki said:
Visual thinking is the phenomenon of thinking through visual processing.[1] Visual thinking has been described as seeing words as a series of pictures.[citation needed] Visual thinking is common in approximately 60%–65% of the general population.[1]

"Real picture thinkers", those persons who use visual thinking almost to the exclusion of other kinds of thinking, make up a smaller percentage of the population. Research by child development theorist Linda Kreger Silverman suggests that less than 30% of the population strongly uses visual/spatial thinking, another 45% uses both visual/spatial thinking and thinking in the form of words, and 25% thinks exclusively in words. According to Kreger Silverman, of the 30% of the general population who use visual/spatial thinking, only a small percentage would use this style over and above all other forms of thinking, and can be said to be 'true' "picture thinkers".

Gardner's multiple intelligences theory recognises various forms of intelligence, namely spatial, linguistic, logical-mathematical, bodily-kinesthetic, musical, interpersonal, intrapersonal, naturalistic.[citation needed] Areas of competence may be reinforcing, but also mutually exclusive. In today's society the link between IQ and education has weakened, but the idea of educated and intelligent has become synonymous, interchangeable; reinforced by verbalizers being better able to internalize information, advocate systems and design jobs that monetarily reward strengths, a cycle that is self-perpetuating


From my encounters both IRL and here, a good majority seem to be visual (sample size too small obviously, just my encounters).

Also, for Absurdity, the ISTPs I've asked to describe their visual thinking describe it exactly like you do, "movie like."


Understandably, many people, at first seem to reject that there could even exist other ways, simply because they are used to/know whatever the method they are capable of thinking in. The visual thinkers not seeing pictures when they think, or the verbalizers always seeing pictures, etc. It is a fun idea to play around with because most of you are familiar with typology anyway, we are all aware of our different experiences in this life and the way that they are perceived and experienced, but throwing this into the mix also makes it even more different.
 

Grayman

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I am a picture thinker. It is more like video.
EXAMPLE:
When learning the ohms law I did not really pay attention to the symbols or the verbal lecture. I instead pictured the wire with electrons going through it and the process of a one side of the wire feeling intense possibly it would be red or feel larger or more dense and full. The other side feels empty and void and the electrons want to get to one side from the other because they feel crowded. The wire feels restrictive to the electrons like and they are forced to float in a line and as the wire gets small the electrons have to float slower and closer in a line. The number of electrons that get through the wire at a given time is the flow of electrons. The restrictive walls in the wire is the resistance. The rubbing of the electrons on the wall creates heat. The intensity on one side vs the other is the potential.
Most people would memorize this formula as I = E/R of course I can never remember this very simple formula except if I picture the image from a page in a book nor do I ever use it unless it am doing mathematical substitution. I very much dislike memorizing all these formulas anyways. I know that the resistance, smaller space for travel for the electrons to flow, shrinking would cause the electrons to slow down as they have to line up like traffic on a highway. Since I picture or see that as the devisor shrinks on the equation making the total larger. It would seem that the resistance would fit best as the devisor and the current the total. So I come up with I = E/R.

Now your thinking that it is way to overly complicated to do all this as apposed to simply recalling I = V/R. I would almost agree with you but then I would be stating that your is mind is more efficient than mine and since no one else will defend me from these accusations I am left to defend the undependable.

Defense:

Now I don't do a lot of memorizing except for what I call core elements. I simply create a world in my head add in teh physics and then play the video. Sprinkle a little deductive reasoning in and walla! I build the formula from scratch...for the 100th time. Think of all the room in my head I am saving though! Then consider that I can use this to discover new things and do all the time and it more than makes up for it.

The end result of what I am trying to say is that I do not think in words verbally at all or even memorize them. The words simply come out from the pictures and I am not usually paying a lot of attention to them. Often while doing some deep thinking while it is quiet I notice I am talking in my head but usually I am not sure what I am saying.... I do talk mostly when I have created a picture of an individual and then the individual is interacting with me or someone else. The speech then occurs as a result. I don't memorize symbols either. It's mostly functional videos showing cause and effects, emotions and feeling.
One problem with my way of thought is it is very difficult to spell and pronounce and do music because I have no auditory skills. I cannot recall the words to a single song. Remember the words spoken in an argument. I can only recall written words and only by reading off a book in my head or a piece of paper.
To remember or even to “understand” what someone says verbally I have to picture it and turn on the mental video. Can you imagine getting verbal instructions and you never can remember what any person says? Someone says do the dishes tonight what do you do? How do you remember? Do you write down everything everyone says? I simply picture doing the dishes in my head and when I see the dishes I recall the image of doing the dishes and I go aha! I was supposed to do the dishes. The problem is when someone is telling me to do something I cannot picture. A new place or an item that they are trying to describe. They say oh you will recognize it when you see it. The problem is that when I see it, I don’t remember what the person said as the description of the object. …
Yah all too much TMI, but hey you can skip over it. I would love to see what it like to get into someone else’s head and see how it functions so here is an opportunity for someone who feels the same way.
 

TimeAsylums

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Thanks, Grayman. I think this might the first post of yours I really appreciate. In depth concentrations on how a person thinks is extremely helpful in understanding, so thanks.
 

Grayman

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Thanks, Grayman. I think this might the first post of yours I really appreciate. In depth concentrations on how a person thinks is extremely helpful in understanding, so thanks.

I like the format of the compliment. It is 780 insult to 1 compliment. ;)

Regardless, I am glad we are on teh same page.
 

Black Rose

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Microtonalist

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Words. Emphatically in words. I am intensely verbally-focused. I suppose that might be a little unusual for an INTP, although I see from this thread that I'm not the only one.
In my case, an IQ test I took once showed such a wide spread between my verbal and non-verbal capacities that it led the administering psychologist to remark that I probably regularly use the "verbal" side of my brain to solve tasks that most people solve through other means. This is confirmed by the fact that I had to learn mathematics by reasoning out the process in words.
In my case, I don't even really like charts and graphs. I would almost always read a paragraph or two of dense, technical prose than try to get the information from a graph or picture. Needless to say, I find Ikea instruction booklets extremely frustrating!
 

Microtonalist

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Spatial is important for trying to understand a complex problem. Words are too linear to capture most concepts. I do convert concepts to words to also understand it better that way but it is not the method of creation but instead validation.

I would think all intuition would be images of sorts and all thinking would be words. As far as how I understand the parts fo the brain the subconscious or the brain that does the thinking subconsciously is the same part that does the spatial processing.

Wow, Grayman. You and I are basically polar opposites. Fascinating. I have almost no depth perception whatsoever, so spatial metaphors are basically lost on me. (In fact, my spatial faculties are so bad that I had to quit gaming in the early 90s when games started to go 3D!) I think and intuit almost entirely through verbal and auditory means - which are not necessarily linear in my case. My visual memory is also extremely poor.
On the other hand, I have an extremely well-developed auditory memory, and my main interests are languages and music.

I think it is very interesting that two individuals with such radically different ways of thinking and reasoning could end up with a similar personality profile.
 

TimeAsylums

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Most of you will be familiar with this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baddeley's_model_of_working_memory

Working-memory-en.svg


In accordance with psychology and neuropsychology etc all the connections fit in with visual/nonvisual thinking. Correlational either to multiple intelligences or function usages yet unsure; also fits with type/system 1/2 theory of thinking...all fits together, just level of depth isn't really there...yet.
 

QuickTwist

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Great informational post TA!

When I think I usually think in abstract non-visual components. Perhaps this is really just being a visual thinker. The reason I say that is because it is not as strong as a dream in terms of visual intensity, but isn't really associated with words either. I guess the best way to describe it is that it manifests itself like a spider web that pulls different concepts together. Where the spider is, is where or what is focused on and the connections that most closely associate with the subject is felt most strongly with where the concepts meet and exponentially gets weaker the further away from the subject it is.

There is also a sort of flow that occurs. It may start out as one thing and as I think, it becomes more and more developed the longer and/or more intense the idea becomes. Think of it like a thing floating in the water. The waves move fast across and beneath the thing floating and it gradually finds its way in one direction or another.
 

praisetehsun

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I definitely think in "unsymbolizised" thoughts, and I can think through images fairly easily, but thinking with just pure words is do-able but certainly not natural for me.

However I do have a friend who says he thinks through things using only words all the time.
But I can't imagine doing that, it seems far to limiting to me. Like the knowledge learned that way would be fragile.
Like learning things rote
 

TimeAsylums

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This just came up in my Psych 3130 Cognition class

thought I'd share

Probably because I had just lectured on some studies about images that suggest we store them in a way that is analagous to perception, coupled with the fact that you had not yet been assigned the reading on imagery, several people asked to hear more about imagery. So here is a little bit more about that:

There is reason to believe that we use/manipulate images in much the same way that we perceive things. Manipulation of images is very similar to perception of the items we are imaging. However, there is debate about whether representations of objects are stored in our minds as analogs of images or as propositions that we can call up and use to form the image. The analog code means that the representations are similar to the perceived item, and the propositional code means that the representations are language-like descriptions. There is evidence that people seem to use both of these, just in different circumstances.

To relate the codes to the use of imagery mnemonics: When I had you use "1 is a bun, 2 is a shoe..." to memorize a list, I told you to imagine each list item interacting with the object linked to the number. If you used analog code, you formed a picture in your head and "looked" at it. If you had used propositional code, you formed a description of the list item interacting with the object linked to the number, and then you may or may not have actually felt like you were looking at the items interacting, but you definitely had a verbal description in mind.

To relate imagery to one other part of the class: Mental images are what would be held for further processing in the visuo-spatial sketchpad of Baddeley's working memory model.
 

corprtdrpout

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I think 100% in words. The first time someone caught me narrating my life was in 2nd grade. It was a teacher watching me awkwardly maneuver myself downward on a set of gymnastics bars. I was saying something like "And then you do this, and then all you have to do is this, and then that..." Suddenly, someone said, "And then what?" It was the teacher. I felt and I guess still feel somewhat ashamed by it.

I have trouble recalling things visually with any sort of detail... My memories of experiences tend more to be involved with my impressions of it and the "feeling" of it (and hopefully, what generally happened) than any sort of detail. I rarely remember visual details, and only partially remember verbal ones. But, my memory has always been especially sharp for any kind of patterns, whether in languages, math, or, oddly enough: choreographed dance...

Microtonalist mentioned having to put math into words to understand it. I definitely identify with this, in that I have to be able to understand things logically and intuitively to accept them. Thank God I memorized all my arithmetic for fun in the bathtub before I was so persistently skeptical. My experiences with abstract math at its most abstract verged at times on philosophical struggles for me which I had to win by understanding.
 

Anktark

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I would say I have different modes for different problems/areas. But overall I estimate myself to be around 35% words, 20% visual and 45% unsymbolized. And it's true that an unsymbolized thought is hard to express, because I have to rethink it differently in another way. Might also be one of reasons why I keep forgetting words.


That post is stupid, please forgive my ignorance. Those 20% "images" are more of "essence, pattern and abstraction"; they have very few details. My confusion arouse from the idea that those thoughts are visual.
 

nexion

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Image and archetype is the root from which everything else flows.
 

TimeAsylums

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I recently obtained a copy of Neuroscience of Personality: Brain Savvy Insights for All Types of People: Dario Nardi: 9780979868474: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51X3Jtq16ZL.@@AMEPARAM@@51X3Jtq16ZL

Thus far, when Jung said Ni's tendencies to be visual and Ne verbal (linguistic) in manners of "thinking" (of which RK has asserted is merely "referencing" not thinking, which makes a LOT more sense syntactically and actually speaking),

INTJs and INFJs are strongly visual in their thinking

This obviously doesn't mean that you ARE one type because of your method of reference ("thinking") but it is an interesting trend


will post further updates in actual Nardi thread, but this seemed relevant to this thread


A summary thread for types in the book: http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/128709-nueroscience-personality-dario-nardi.html
 

Grayman

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Im curious if the mind is only capable of handling only one visual and auditory system at any given time. For example:

I cannot play something in my head with great detail audioand visual, without losing focus on my surroundings.

Is this just me, or a common thing?
 

BigApplePi

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Do you think in words(objects/non-visual) or pictures(visual)?
What do you mean by "objects/non-visual"? (I haven't read this thread if this is already answered).

No reason if asked to choose between A and B, I wouldn't choose A or B but maybe C or AB instead. I approach the Q as being, how do I think?

Answer: via lots of connections. I can start with a motivational frame which can take any form: visual, sensory, positional, words, an object or an idea. This radiates outward to the same and is guided by motivation or and successful or failed associations all the time looking for balance and focus. Words are only symbols which make the connections. Visuals do the same. So does sense. Position means I take a thought here and compare it to another thought there. Then there could or would be a sensual "weighing" which guides the next direction to go into.

This means your original Q I render inoperative as if you had asked, what part of the baby supports life more: the right half or the left half. I use both A and B.
 

Grayman

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What do you mean by "objects/non-visual"? (I haven't read this thread if this is already answered).

No reason if asked to choose between A and B, I wouldn't choose A or B but maybe C or AB instead. I approach the Q as being, how do I think?

I am not familiar with the other fasion so I will leave Time Asylum to explain that side. For me...

Objects that exist seperately each having and understanding of its own. The world is my own physical reality with rules much like true physics. I am a god in this world. I feel and experience every thought and feeling and even the atoms as they move rubing against eachother to create heat. It is a spacial world. I am everything but everything is its own.

To me language has no meaning. To me there is no linear. There is no image for it is reality not a picture.

To understand I simply create people in this world and experience them. They live and they have their own understanding that is not mine. Their reactions are their own. I can experience this world differently each time by living through each person. Real people and objects are complex seperated and connected beings that can be used in this world for further understanding of the real world.

It is impossible to explain the complexity and the understanding of this world for language is linear and this world is a matrix of vast dimensions.
 

BigApplePi

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words/ picture maps

It is impossible to explain the complexity and the understanding of this world for language is linear and this world is a matrix of vast dimensions.
Could we say we construct an inner partial map of the outside world and keep it inside? Then we manipulate both actively and passively this inner world using positions on the map, ever changing as input arrives from the outside or even new from the inside world. For me this map is both visual and positional and is sensitive to qualitative content. This is a complex process in so far as the map is taken from a complex place. Sometimes actions are taken without much thought complexity if immediate action is required or desired.
 

Grayman

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Re: words/ picture maps

Could we say we construct an inner partial map of the outside world and keep it inside? Then we manipulate both actively and passively this inner world using positions on the map, ever changing as input arrives from the outside or even new from the inside world. For me this map is both visual and positional and is sensitive to qualitative content. This is a complex process in so far as the map is taken from a complex place. Sometimes actions are taken without much thought complexity if immediate action is required or desired.

That is how it functions on the surface level but my world feels much more deep and personal. My connection with each object is very important. I do not view it from the outside but from inside of each object.
 

BigApplePi

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Re: words/ picture maps

That is how it functions on the surface level but my world feels much more deep and personal. My connection with each object is very important. I do not view it from the outside but from inside of each object.
Once the inner map is constructed, we play with the map forgetting its origin and forgetting it is a map and it is there.
 

Grayman

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Re: words/ picture maps

Once the inner map is constructed, we play with the map forgetting its origin and forgetting it is a map and it is there.

True, like in a dream. The rock cannot know who its creator is nor can the man holding the rock. The creator cannot be known or the dream will end and the world be but memory.
 

BigApplePi

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Re: words/ picture maps

True, like in a dream. The rock cannot know who its creator is nor can the man holding the rock. The creator cannot be known or the dream will end and the world be but memory.
It that fair to the dream? We can wake and later return to the dream. It's an odd cycle. We need to dream; we need to wake.

There is more than one world. We cannot occupy both at the same time ... unless we stand outside. Before we can do that, we might need to build that place to stand.
 

Cesare

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My mind seems to have a strong preference for thinking in words, I have to really force myself to think in images.
 

Red myst

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I do both. It depends on what is going on, but there is a lot if internal dialog if I am talking to myself, but if I think about an object, I visualize it immediately. It doesn't last long though and it is usually unfocused. I envision the environment and objects when I read books. I make up visions to go along with songs I hear, or am replaying in my head. Kind of like a music video, and sometimes I just recall a visual of the artist or make one up. Memories are almost visual, videos or snapshots. i can't imagine any other way. Basically it seems very natural to visualize something where you would expect visuals to be, and words to be where words should be. I thought everybody did this.
I'm not thinking in pictures right now because I am composing text. But oops, I just has a random thought of a blue car I used to have pop into my head and it was not a word, it was a flash or snapshot. If I'm thinking about how some parts must fit together, I visualize the parts. If I'm trying to remember where I put my phone, I visualize the general area where I might of left it, and see if I can see it in that area. If I think I see it in the visualization, then I go check. I am usually surprised when it is not where I thought I saw it. More often than not it is right where I visualized it. I can't imagine trying to do the same task with words.
 

nexion

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For the record, when you (or maybe just Jung) say 'visually', I I take it that that term refers to ideas, or, as Jung states, archetypes. It is most definitely not referring to literal pictures, just as 'objects' is not referring to words. Such an interpretation is far too rudimentary, and I suspect the reason none of the people you have talked to stated that they think in words is because visual stimuli is so important to our perception of the world that of course would people would identify more with pictures rather than words. Maybe there was a disconnect between your own understanding of the question and how others looked at it?

I cannot really say much on the way Ne perceives and processes information, as I have not put much thought and study into that function, but I have read Jung's own descriptions of Ni multiple times and I think I understand it fairly well. A simple and concise description might be that Ni concerns itself with certain ideas, and how these ideas relate to consciousness. I (recently professed as being a very probable Ni-type, but regardless this remains true as it relates to Jung's descriptions of the functions) recognize this manner of thinking in almost every aspect of my life. Anything I find myself interested in, I find myself more invested in the ideas behind it, the different paradigms and modes of thought within it, the implications and connections it has with other ideas within that discipline and other unrelated ones.

Take three major branches of science: physics, chemistry, and biology (I have always hated chemistry and have developed a hatred of physics, but that is beside the point). Easily the most interesting thing about any of these subjects is how they relate to each other: how physical processes give rise to chemical systems, and how chemical systems and physical interactions develop and maintain 'life'. One can look not only at that, but bring in external and unrelated subjects. One can ponder and observe the philosophical ramifications of, say, a deterministic system giving rise to something that, by all accounts, seems non-deterministic, or similar things of that nature. As to how this mode of thinking correlates to Ni as opposed to Ne, however, I am not so sure. I have no doubt that intuition is a process of relation; that is, how ideas and objects interact with and relate to each other, but my problem is knowing where general intuition ends and where introverted vs extroverted intuition begins.

Obviously, both Ni and Ne deal with the same information, the difference is the libidinal flow of energy in how this information is dealt with. One popular example I have seen for Ne is a single idea which branches out as much as it can, connecting a multitude of ideas which have increasingly little relevance as one explores the novelties of the relations. I either have never seen or don't recall an equivalent for Ni-type thinking, but the implication seems to be that Ne is more expansive whereas Ni is more thorough. Or, to put it a different way, Ne is interested in the number of ideas it can relate to the original idea, and Ni is interested in how the ideas related to the original idea feed into and mold the original idea. For the latter proposition, one may find a decent parallel in quantum mechanics, where an attempt to measure certain properties of a particle change the properties of that particle (I have devoted almost no time into the study of quantum mechanics, and thus have no idea if this is anywhere close to being accurate, so don't quote me on it; it works well enough to illustrate what I am trying to say regardless of its factual accuracy anyway).

I was just telling someone the other day that the primary reason for my interest in history is to observe the ideas and customs adhered to by a particular society in a particular age, but also to see how they have changed over the centuries, and furthermore to be able to apply those ideas into my own mode of thinking, for the sake of having a more complete and balanced holistic picture of humanity and consciousness. Also worth noting, one of the lesser ideas which I have become fixated upon is that of a paradigm of thought or consciousness made up of untold numbers of variables. But I don't care about the paradigm or the values of the variables themselves, I care about how changing any given variable affects the entirety of the paradigm, how one change cascades and affects every other variable in the paradigm, making one small change potentially very effective. There is always this interplay, the idea that everything is connected and everything affects everything else (this is why so much of my thought in recent times focuses on altering perception and patterns of thought). I have come to view this idea as quintessential Ni, or at least NiJe in action.
 
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