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do you know what you want?

shoeless

I AM A WIZARD
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because i don't. at all. i'm an IDIOT and i don't know what i want and now i'm having second thoughts about everything. i want to stay. i already decided to go, i already made my life hell, i already made everyone else's life hell, and like an IDIOT i'm thinking of fucking everything up once again because i'm selfish and stupid and I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WANT.

it's got me thinking, you know. is it an INTP thing? this is beyond indecisiveness -- this is something way more fundamental.

do you know what's important for you?
do you know what you need?
do you know what will make you happy?


yes? no? how do you know?

yeah. ugh. need a serious face-punting right now.
 

Latro

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Other than a pretty good idea of the career I want, no, I don't. I have been blessed with knowing more or less what I want to do for a career since I was about 6, though.
 

Felan

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do you know what's important for you?
What is important changes. One gaurantee is that whatever is important at the time will occupy you more than not. I don't really think it matters whether it will be important in a year, just that it is now.

This realization I think helped me in some tangible ways. First that whatever is important now won't likely be forever so if it doesn't quite go as planned, its not the end of the world. Second, that while something might seem trivial to you it might be important at the moment for someone else; provided this thing isn't outright unhealthy (like suicide or crack cocaine) it is best to respect the person and encourage a positive view of this important-eventually-not-to-be-so-important thing.

do you know what you need?
Really if you look at this you need to survive and occupy yourself. Beyond that there really isn't anything you need. In it's most distilled form it is pretty easy to satisfy what you need.

do you know what will make you happy?
Nothing can make you happy. Looking for something to make you happy is an endless and fruitless pursuit. For myself, happiness has come from within. That phrase is wildly unhelpful though.

I think the easiest way to find happiness is have a mixed perspective of questioning and accepting. I think it is important to ask yourself if you are enjoying what you are doing, where you are, who you are with, and so on. Equally important is to have a reasonable acceptance that it is never always going to be a postive answer. If the answer is consistently negative though than that seems a strong indicator that something isn't quite right. If things are not quite right then there are three approaches: dump it, stop questioning it, or explore/change it.

I have a hard time dumping things but some people can do it, since I suck at it I can't really speak well to its effectiveness.

I have stopped questioning it, though that only lasts for a bit and the questioning comes back. I believe this is the worst strategy by far and I have yet to have anything good come of it. Knowing that it is the worst strategy and that nothing good comes of it doesn't prevent me from using it though, in fact it is probably the default.

For me exploring and changing it has been the most successful. If something is making you really unhappy then it seems that eventually some action will be taken for you if you don't take it yourself. I you enjoy something then it is less likely that undesired action will be forced on you. If you aren't happy with who you are with, most likely they will eventually move on themself. If you hate your job and aren't searching for change to improve your lot, you will not likely go anywhere except possibly the unemployment line (which if you are in the default mode is the only way out of a crappy job).

Exploring/changing doesn't mean you have to find something else and get rid of the old (which tends more toward the dump it approach). I think of it as more about looking at unexplored territory in whatever it is. In a work or school environment it can be asking questions or reading up on stuff that relates to the environment and particularly engaging others. It could be taking a different route home to find a new way to appreciate where you live, or to provide further impetus to move.

I might be unique but a lot of unhappiness for me seems to stem from a staleness or unwillingness to explore and play. This is true for me of relationships, work, games, and ... well I can't think of an exception to be honest. So if I start to feel in a rut I just actively look for a way to do something a bit different.
 

Ermine

is watching and taking notes
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because i don't. at all. i'm an IDIOT and i don't know what i want and now i'm having second thoughts about everything. i want to stay. i already decided to go, i already made my life hell, i already made everyone else's life hell, and like an IDIOT i'm thinking of fucking everything up once again because i'm selfish and stupid and I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WANT.

it's got me thinking, you know. is it an INTP thing? this is beyond indecisiveness -- this is something way more fundamental.

do you know what's important for you?
do you know what you need?
do you know what will make you happy?


yes? no? how do you know?

yeah. ugh. need a serious face-punting right now.

I only know the basics of what I want and need. The rest is very transient and is decided as I go. The only constants, so far as I know, are:

Creating. It's what I love to do, a constant impulse, and the thing that consumes my life the most. Therefore it's important. This can be in a variety of forms, from drawing to graphic design to music to cooking to just about anything.

I need to be challenged, intellectually and in other ways as well. It gives me a reason to set goals and complete them, and a sense of competition. I've also noticed that without this in place I'm not very productive and get depressed and angry, which isn't good.

I need food and shelter. Enough said.

I need a social support system. I may not talk to them all the time, but I need to know there are some people I can rely on.

I want/need to understand things, such as systems, people, classes, etc.

Yeah. That's basically what's important to me. I don't know about everything else, but so long as these need/wants are fulfilled, I can go with the flow on the rest. And I totally understand the constant flip flopping. For example, I'm currently a graphic design major, but I didn't even know I was interested in that until about a year ago. Before, I was dead set on being a fine artist. And before that, I was dead set on playing guitar in a rock band. Now we're getting into childish dreams here, but my interests definitely change a lot.
 

ckm

still swimming
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No. I really have no idea. Sometimes I'm sure it's okay: I don't want a life where everything is definite, after all. But others, it's frustrating and upsetting. I feel very lost a lot of the time.

I can't make up my mind on anything. I look at all the points of view, but never make an opinion of my own.
 

Jesin

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I think what I want most in life is to understand as much as possible, and I suppose also to help others towards the same goal. A lot of the rest sort of follows from that. :p

EDIT: I'd also just like to say that Felan's advice about exploring and changing seems like really good advice.
 
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KazeCraven

crazy raven
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Ever read The Paradox of Choice by Barry Schwartz? Essentially what I got from it is, if the choice isn't obvious, it's best to get "good enough" and forget about it. Easier said than done, I know, especially when it's a big choice.

I don't want/need a whole lot. Many times, when given a choice, I'll arbitrarily decide (which one starts with a letter closest to V?) just because it really doesn't matter that much for me. Most experiences I'll benefit from one way or another. And as for opinions, it's pretty common for me to want to say, "I don't have an opinion on the matter."
 

ktp

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Not knowing is a curse. I don't know what is important to me. People tell me what I should consider to be important. I listen to their advice and I am let down. I realize that they only told me what was important to them, and nothing more. Same thing with my needs. I am at a lost at what my needs are. I see other people's needs, so I try to match them, thinking that its what I need also. But again, this is not the case.

I do know what makes me happy, but happiness is only temporary. Once happiness stops, I go back to thinking about the first two questions and I am depressed again. This cycle of the unknown, then temporary happiness, then back to sadness is the extent of my life experience 21 years into it.
 

amorfati

Active Member
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As far as what is tangible, I have no fucking clue. External reality is a bitch for me, because it gets in the way of my internal drives. Take music for example. I love creating music, but I hate the musical instrument because to me the instrument is a "middle man" so to speak which I have to channel my inner composition through in order to actually make tangible music. I'd far prefer if I could just telepathically express my inner composition to other minds and be done with it. Sure, if I learned enough about music theory I could just write down my inner composition on paper and skip the instrument altogether, but the paper and pen is just merely a different form of an instrument, so that doesn't solve much.

So again, I can't think of any tangible thing that I want. I love creativity, passion, strategic thinking, comedy, cleverness, seduction, mystery, contemplation, reflection, willingness, victory, conflict, conversation, and just about everything else that can't be bought or sold.
 

cuterebra

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A few years ago, someone (I suspect him to be an INTJ) gave me a piece of advice that I found very helpful:

Choosing a career is a lot like choosing a mate. While there are a lot of people out there that you might like to spend time with, the important part is finding someone whose faults you can tolerate on a day-to-day basis.

Sounds obvious, right? For me, it was one of those things that probably should have been obvious, but wasn't. Since I'm a born dilettante who wants to do everything, thinking about it from this perspective helped me narrow the field quite a bit.
 

Ermine

is watching and taking notes
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Hmm. I never thought of it that way before, but I actually did end up choosing my major that way, even though there were several majors I could have liked.
 

gepcy loc

♪♪♪♈Mondayz, time for Alchemy♈♪♪♪
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Theirs a lot of Is up their, maybe you should calm down and fallow the lead of the people around you. Even if you don't like it, you'll always end up getting used to it. What do the people closest to you want? If there happiness makes you happy. Do it for them not for you.

That's all I know,
I also know that People are chaotic,
So making thim happy lessens the chaos,
But really only a little
 

Eef

Your Mom
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Well I am a human being in this world who can't seem to find what I'm looking for. Don't even know what the heck I'm looking for.

And that's what makes me wonder.

My mind will forever unstoppable wonder into the deep depths searching for meaning.
 

chloé

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You aren't supposed to know what's important to you yet. Life is about exploring that, and finding that out, and gaining experience and knowledge and greater comfort in the face of challenge.

Peronally I find indecisiveness to be one of the most intolerable states of mind to be in. If you're really second-guessing yourself, bail on the first decision and make plan B happen. But if that doesn't seem right, maybe you're just having pre-performance jitters, but your original judgment is still something you can trust. The worst that can happen is you go through with it, find you hate it, and quit and go for something new. Right? (I don't really know what you're even facing, but I assume it's something career related or similar.)
 

Polaris

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because i don't. at all. i'm an IDIOT and i don't know what i want and now i'm having second thoughts about everything. i want to stay. i already decided to go, i already made my life hell, i already made everyone else's life hell, and like an IDIOT i'm thinking of fucking everything up once again because i'm selfish and stupid and I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WANT.

it's got me thinking, you know. is it an INTP thing? this is beyond indecisiveness -- this is something way more fundamental.

Hey shoeless, it isn't your fault that you are being forced to choose between two countries. You are loading all this stuff onto yourself, and you are not an idiot for being indecisive. This situation has not been created by you, so don't blame yourself for other people's 'hell'. It is a hell of a situation you are in, and anyone would find this hard. How does one choose between parents? It is not an easy decision. Please don't beat yourself up over something that someone else created. This is not an INTP thing, it is an emotional dilemma no person would like to be in.

Do what is best for you. It sounds as if you are leaning towards going to Texas, my intuition has picked that up from what you said in a previous thread. It is more important that you are happy than going to whatever school. Education is important, but in this case it takes second place on the priority list.

do you know what's important for you?
do you know what you need?
do you know what will make you happy?

-Yes, I know what is important for me: having people I love close to me.
-I know what I need: people who care for me.
-Happiness is hard to define. I know that I'm happier when I have people who love me and care for me around. Friends make me happy.

All the other things you need grow from these things.
 

timmymayes

Redshirt
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Ever read The Paradox of Choice by Barry Schwartz? Essentially what I got from it is, if the choice isn't obvious, it's best to get "good enough" and forget about it. Easier said than done, I know, especially when it's a big choice.
...

I really want to read that but totally forgot about it. *Added to books to read list*

Now to address the question of want, need and everything in between.

This has been more than a question for me in my 26 years alive. Really more of a quest. I'm going to start at the end. Happiness is defined in lots of different ways. To me I think that the way to happiness is to identify your wants and needs then go about satisfying those as much as you can.

In my time spent contemplating and researching ideas like happiness I have come up with the following flow of logic;

Initially when younger I thought I wanted to be a musician, a pro video gamer, a pro skateboarder etc. Basically take pro and put it in front of one of my hobbies. Then the idea was born unto me that taking a hobby and turning it into a career does just that; it makes it work. This discouraged me greatly.

The second road block I came to face was the fact that I have a veritable laundry list of interests. Its great to have options but you can't really pursue 10 different careers simultaneously no matter how much you'd like to.

In the end I decided on a much simpler way to deal with all of the above problems, decisiveness and flexibility. I know they are contradictory so let me explain. After reading that being decisive is one of the characteristics of almost all successful people I decided to adopt it. (pun intended) I've also picked up an interesting idea from personal development guru Steve Pavlina. (check out www.stevepavlina.com and read from the beginning he is quite insightful) In one of his articles on purpose he uses his own life as an example in which he defines his purpose and the medium of delivery separately.

So for example his purpose is to help teach people about personal development and to grow. But the medium of that has changed over the years. At first he just had his blog that he would post free articles on. Then he began giving talks and seminars. Later he compiled much of his knowledge into a book that he had published. In essence his job changed three times; Web Designer / Journalist, public speaker, author. He has a lot of possibilities moving forward including personal life coach etc.

Not all careers have that flexibility so I chose what i'm going into with that flexibility in mind. Personally I've decided my purpose in this life is to observe the world through my unique (intp-esque) lens and give everyone my take on the world. How I envision this playing out is multi-faceted. I have interests in stand up comedy, philosophy, writing (comedy, music, books, screenplays, etc), film making / directing. I personally feel this works well with my self appointed role as an observer.

Here is an AMAZING anecdote from Jerry Seinfeld about the happiness / success and how it is all relative
http://www.anecdote.com.au/archives/2008/08/dont_lecture_te.html

Another good insight can be found in Malcom Gladwell's book titled outliers.


"Those three things -- autonomy, complexity and a connection between effort and reward -- are, most people agree, the three qualities that work has to have if it is to be satisfying. It is not how much money we make that ultimately makes us happy between nine and five. Its whether our work fulfills us. If I offered youu a choice between being an architect for $75,000 a year and working in a tollbooth everyday for the rest of your life for a guaranteed 100k a year, which would you take?"

I mention all of these references because I found them comforting in living with the decisions I've forced myself into knowing that overall at the end of the day i'll have more happy days than unhappy ones.

Hope you gained something from my wall of text.

Cheers,

T
 

Rdiddy

Redshirt
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I can very much understand your indecision about what you want in life.

I spent the whole of my 20s "keeping my options open" in every single way. I could not commit to a women, the idea I'd be at a job longer then the next 2 months or that I'd even stay in the same state for the next 2 months. EVERYTHING I did in life was structured to allow that I could make a change as soon as I realized what it was I wanted in life. This even allowed me the 'freedom' to ignore my friends, as I'd be gone soon. And I absolutely intended to do something awesome (eventually).

Funny thing is: I spent 7 years on & off with the same women (a horrible relationship, in part because of my indecision), 4.5 with the same job (being very underpaid) and over 5.5 in the crappiest little apartment I could find.

I've recently decided it's time to 'shit or get off the pot'. It's cliche but it's true, life is what happens while your making other plans. I'm trying to let go of the worry for 'opportunity cost' in tomorrows happiness in order to focus on today's.

I think many have said this already, the you of today will want completely different things as the you of tommorow. You can only find today's happiness, if you do, tomorrows will take care of itself. (one day I hope I'll be able to take my own advice :p )

We can't do everything, we can't learn everything, we can only focus on the opportunities emediatly in front of us (and mistakes ARE acceptable).
 

Starfruit M.E.

Goes by M.E., NOT Star.
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do you know what's important for you? ...yes.
do you know what you need? absolutely.
do you know what will make you happy? yes.

You know, the problem is that I inevitably choose to do the opposite. I know what I should do, but I don't do it. That makes me an even worse IDIOT than you I'd say.
 

Geminii

Consultant, inventor, project innovator
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It took me several days of self-analysis and over fifteen years of adulthood to act as sufficient data points, but yes, I have a fairly good idea now.

And yes, for pretty much my entire life before then, I had NFI what I really wanted from life. I had to try a whole bunch of stuff to cast a wide enough net to spot the consistencies and patterns.
 
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