Do this apply to you?

[Perseus]

Extreme N’s (especially extreme NP combination) are by nature rebellious, and unconventional. If they are in a class with a structured SJ teacher than interprets their resistance to "coloring between the lines" as disobedience, both teacher and student are in for a long year.

(IT) Introverted/Thinkers – (especially females) struggle socially. They are more self-contained, join less, show less affect, appear cool and less approachable, date less, desire less affiliation, and do not mind isolation as much as other types. The "oddness", apparent disinterest, and ultimate marginalization of these types.

Do this aplly to you?

The NP applies now. IT has applied, but I have had more trouble with ET, which can get me isolated.

http://www.oswego.edu/plsi/counsel.htm

 

[didyouknow]

Sounds like me...but I act. I've always had a strange affiliation with acting. I was the best in my class in year 10 (after that I stopped acting classes). I act like an ENFP when I'm around people. For their benefit. Not with the people I know the best though. My best friend is one of the few who knows my dark side (apart from my family) because I try to hide it.

 

[Perseus]

Sounds like me...but I act. I've always had a strange affiliation with acting. I was the best in my class in year 10 (after that I stopped acting classes). I act like an ENFP when I'm around people. For their benefit. Not with the people I know the best though. My best friend is one of the few who knows my dark side (apart from my family) because I try to hide it.

ENFP the Ferret is my preferred role as Colombo the Detective at Fancy Dress parties.

 

[NoID10ts]

Extreme N’s (especially extreme NP combination) are by nature rebellious, and unconventional. If they are in a class with a structured SJ teacher than interprets their resistance to "coloring between the lines" as disobedience, both teacher and student are in for a long year.

(IT) Introverted/Thinkers – (especially females) struggle socially. They are more self-contained, join less, show less affect, appear cool and less approachable, date less, desire less affiliation, and do not mind isolation as much as other types. The "oddness", apparent disinterest, and ultimate marginalization of these types.

Do this aplly to you?

My biography!

 

[nooli4]

Yes! They most certainly apply to me. I can't bear teachers who constantly have to abide to a structured lesson plan but because I'm usually subtle with my annoyance they don't usually notice. Especially hate it when they teach you something which they don't agree with just because it's on the Curriculum or when you question them on something different and they won't answer because it's not something you need to know.

 

[FusionKnight]

If I could attend a fancy dress party dressed as anything I wanted, I'd go as the Tom Baker Dr. Who.

Viva la Scarf!

 

[NoID10ts]

If I could attend a fancy dress party dressed as anything I wanted, I'd go as the Tom Baker Dr. Who.

Viva la Scarf!

But Tom Baker shows up at the party and just stands there looking at you like this:

 

[FusionKnight]

I'd probably stare right back...

 

[sagewolf]

Extreme N’s (especially extreme NP combination) are by nature rebellious, and unconventional. If they are in a class with a structured SJ teacher than interprets their resistance to "coloring between the lines" as disobedience, both teacher and student are in for a long year.

Strangely enough, the subject where I have the most difficulty of this type is Art. My Art teacher annoys the hell out of me with that stuff--not during history classes but during the practical classes. She wants to teach us the right way to draw and make art. I don't think there is a right way. She has yet to notice. Indeed, she thinks I'm wonderful, apparently, from what I gathered of what went on at the PTM on Thursday. *eyetwitch* My artistic inclinations must be content to wait until I get to college.

A lot of things are currently content to wait until i get to college, actually.

 

[Fedayeen]

Time to put the quote in my sig to good use.

Because I don't want to bother elaborating further right now, I'll just say:

Me too!

 

[Perseus]

Strangely enough, the subject where I have the most difficulty of this type is Art. My Art teacher annoys the hell out of me with that stuff--not during history classes but during the practical classes. She wants to teach us the right way to draw and make art. I don't think there is a right way. She has yet to notice. Indeed, she thinks I'm wonderful, apparently, from what I gathered of what went on at the PTM on Thursday. *eyetwitch* My artistic inclinations must be content to wait until I get to college.

A lot of things are currently content to wait until i get to college, actually.

I had most trouble with the English teacher. Now I am a writer!

No trouble with the Geography teachers.

 

[Kianara]

Extreme N’s (especially extreme NP combination) are by nature rebellious, and unconventional.

Extreme N's? *looks up* That's me! I'm not an NP, but I'm unconventional.

(IT) Introverted/Thinkers – (especially females) struggle socially. They are more self-contained, join less, show less affect, appear cool and less approachable, date less, desire less affiliation, and do not mind isolation as much as other types. The "oddness", apparent disinterest, and ultimate marginalization of these types.

As a young, female INTJ I will admit to most of these. I have (and do) struggle socially. I tend to be self-contained to the point of self-imposed isolation. I've had to train myself to show the emotions and affection that I feel but didn't see the need to express. I'm that girl that (in a crowded lunch room) is just instinctivly given a space buffer. I don't date (because I'm waiting for an INTP to get his act together, which is probably the problem XD), and don't see the need for affiliating with people in general.

I honestly am content in my isolation, though to keep my extroverted mother from being concerned I keep up the facade of a pseudo-social life.

 

[Fukyo]

Applies to me.I had a big problem in school because of one teacher.It caused me a lot of hurt.

To sum it up I was accused of copying mu essay on Hamlet.The teacher was convinced of it because the vocabulary used in the essay apparently isn't commonly used by kids my age.(18)Also my failing to participate and be active during her class had something to do with it.At that point I was so mad that I started to argue with her in the middle of the class,albeit in a polite and civil way.The standing point of my teacher on the whole matter was-If you don't express it verbally,you don't know it.I ended up getting a C instead of an A on my paper and was told by my teacher that "I can't compete with her".

I wanted to laugh at the realization that her attempt to humiliate me actually humiliates her,a 40-something year old woman with a degree in her subject and more knowledge than me who gets satisfaction from "defeating" her 18 year old student.

 

[boku]

Extreme N’s (especially extreme NP combination) are by nature rebellious, and unconventional. If they are in a class with a structured SJ teacher than interprets their resistance to "coloring between the lines" as disobedience, both teacher and student are in for a long year.

(IT) Introverted/Thinkers – (especially females) struggle socially. They are more self-contained, join less, show less affect, appear cool and less approachable, date less, desire less affiliation, and do not mind isolation as much as other types. The "oddness", apparent disinterest, and ultimate marginalization of these types.

Do this aplly to you?

The NP applies now. IT has applied, but I have had more trouble with ET, which can get me isolated.

http://www.oswego.edu/plsi/counsel.htm

Bolded text pretty much sums up the problems I have.
I used to sleep through History and Geography unintentionally. Failed and got the second worst grade for History for prelims (E8) with only 1 or 2 months left before O levels and my History teacher forced me to plan out a timetable on how I intend to study for it. I ended up not following it at all and surprisingly got B4 (jump of 4 grades) when the results were released.

 

[Snail]

Applies to me.I had a big problem in school because of one teacher.It caused me a lot of hurt.

To sum it up I was accused of copying mu essay on Hamlet.The teacher was convinced of it because the vocabulary used in the essay apparently isn't commonly used by kids my age.(18)Also my failing to participate and be active during her class had something to do with it.At that point I was so mad that I started to argue with her in the middle of the class,albeit in a polite and civil way.The standing point of my teacher on the whole matter was-If you don't express it verbally,you don't know it.I ended up getting a C instead of an A on my paper and was told by my teacher that "I can't compete with her".

I wanted to laugh at the realization that her attempt to humiliate me actually humiliates her,a 40-something year old woman with a degree in her subject and more knowledge than me who gets satisfaction from "defeating" her 18 year old student.

That sounds exactly like what my 5th grade teacher was like. I went home almost every day crying, I suffered from horrible stress headaches, my handwriting got so small it became almost illegible, and all because my teacher wanted total control and didn't respect creativity or intelligence. I wasn't allowed to do anything unique or artistic on projects, which made it hard for me to retain an interest. I got accused of cheating on writing projects because someone my age "couldn't possibly know those words." If I got a perfect score on an assignment, she assumed I must have been cheating, and when I corrected her mistakes during lectures, she considered me disrespectful even though I did so as politely as possible. She eventually stopped calling on me because I asked questions she couldn't answer and brought out problems with what she was saying. She required that the students organize the contents of their desks every week, which involved her opening them to check whether we had done a good job. Mine was never good enough to please her, and I felt violated by the entire process. If an anonymous student did something wrong and she didn't know who it was, she automatically assumed it was me and punished me for it. When other students picked on me, even violently, she watched it happen and did nothing to rescue me. In fact, she seemed to enjoy it. Without the support of my very loving, nurturing parents who would never hurt me in any way, I probably would have comitted suicide that year.

 

[Perseus]

Applies to me.I had a big problem in school because of one teacher.It caused me a lot of hurt.

To sum it up I was accused of copying mu essay on Hamlet.The teacher was convinced of it because the vocabulary used in the essay apparently isn't commonly used by kids my age.(18)Also my failing to participate and be active during her class had something to do with it.At that point I was so mad that I started to argue with her in the middle of the class,albeit in a polite and civil way.The standing point of my teacher on the whole matter was-If you don't express it verbally,you don't know it.I ended up getting a C instead of an A on my paper and was told by my teacher that "I can't compete with her".

I wanted to laugh at the realization that her attempt to humiliate me actually humiliates her,a 40-something year old woman with a degree in her subject and more knowledge than me who gets satisfaction from "defeating" her 18 year old student.

This sort of thing happened to me at school virtually every day and in the end I gave up going to school. It still happens in real life all the time. I get used of lying about things I have done, or the Others will simply not believe me. Furthermore, they make up things I have done which I have not and pass on Chinese Whispers.

If you don't believe me, examine the reaction to my animal creations of types. This came about intuitively and almost automatically.

 

[Fukyo]

This sort of thing happened to me at school virtually every day and in the end I gave up going to school. It still happens in real life all the time. I get used of lying about things I have done, or the Others will simply not believe me. Furthermore, they make up things I have done which I have not and pass on Chinese Whispers.

If you don't believe me, examine the reaction to my animal creations of types. This came about intuitively and almost automatically.

I know what you mean,for example whenever we have to read some book for school I pick it up one day before the deadline and finish it during that day.Everyone says I'm making it up.

 

[Fukyo]

That sounds exactly like what my 5th grade teacher was like. I went home almost every day crying, I suffered from horrible stress headaches, my handwriting got so small it became almost illegible, and all because my teacher wanted total control and didn't respect creativity or intelligence. I wasn't allowed to do anything unique or artistic on projects, which made it hard for me to retain an interest. I got accused of cheating on writing projects because someone my age "couldn't possibly know those words." If I got a perfect score on an assignment, she assumed I must have been cheating, and when I corrected her mistakes during lectures, she considered me disrespectful even though I did so as politely as possible. She eventually stopped calling on me because I asked questions she couldn't answer and brought out problems with what she was saying. She required that the students organize the contents of their desks every week, which involved her opening them to check whether we had done a good job. Mine was never good enough to please her, and I felt violated by the entire process. If an anonymous student did something wrong and she didn't know who it was, she automatically assumed it was me and punished me for it. When other students picked on me, even violently, she watched it happen and did nothing to rescue me. In fact, she seemed to enjoy it. Without the support of my very loving, nurturing parents who would never hurt me in any way, I probably would have comitted suicide that year.

After that incident the teacher was constantly verbally abusing me and humiliating me in front of everyone.It was also hard for me to cope with this,I cried often when I got home from school and even had nightmares.

 

[shalom]

I feel so bad for you guys!

I've never had to deal with teachers like that. But when there was a custody battle over me and I wrote a letter to the court they claimed that I hadn't written it. My court-appointed lawyer was a bastard who didn't even consider what I said because he believed the lie that everything I said came from some of the adults involved. I was so frustrated! ...It still gets at me whenever I think about it...

 

[Kianara]

I was lucky enough to never have been under a teacher like that, but I do have amusing stories of using vocabulary 'above my age level,'

In forth grade, we all took a reading comprehension test that would show what grade level we read at. I was graded as having a reading level of 12.6 (twelfth grade, six months in) and they made me take it again. I got 12.9 the second time.

Then, when I was in Kindergarten my mother was called in for a parent-teacher conference (I went to a private Kindergarten, so it wasn’t too out of the normal). She didn’t tell my mother what it was about, but started off by asking her what my father did for a living. My mom said that she was divorced, but that my dad was an architect. Then the teacher asked what we talked about at home and my mom replied that we talked about anything really. Then my mom asked why the teacher wanted to know these things.

She told my mom that my class had been discussing stuffed animals the other day and I had brought up the subject of taxidermy. The teacher was concerned and wanted to know if my father was a taxidermist or if it was a frequent subject in my house.

This is the childhood of an INTJ

 

[Anthile]

This totally applies to me.
Kindergarten and Primary School were okay, I had nice teachers there.
But Grammar School[?] was just horrible. My class teacher had a Doctor in Pedagogy. Till this day I´m not sure if she just didn´t understood me or if she really hated me. And the other teachers weren´t much better. I learned absolutely nothing there and was completely isolated, even at home, because my father didn´t care about me. Well, he is INTJ and I wouldn´t say he´s a bad person, but I just think he didn´t knew what to do with me. Maybe it´s because his father, my grandfather, died when he - my father - was just two years old and he raised without a father figure.
I always wanted to work alone and I often criticized my teachers. Well, they payed it back with bad marks.
Anyway, soon I began to skip school and went surreptitiously to the local library to read and learn there for myself.
Of course the school didn´t accept this and I had to change the school.
Then the impossible happened: It got worse. I was bullied there all day just because I´m not German.
I used every opportunity to visit my beloved library. Mostly no one cared if I was at school or not, but it was the worst time in my life. I thought the whole world would just hate me and I often thought of suicide, just to end the suffering.
I felt absolutely worthless, without a future.
This went on for nearly four years and my frame was almost broken.
Then my father committed me to a mental institute [this sentence sounds wrong]. After some weeks of restoration I felt better and soon I moved to another town, without my father, where I went to school again.
This time it was okay, nice teachers there and now I have a decent graduation.

Well, of course I feel much better now, but the scars are this there.
Gratuitous English applied

 

[Sylzarra]

Are my eyes the only ones who are going *twitch twitch* at the title? Please for the love of grammar, change it.

And I don't understand why an Intp would get in trouble discipline wise. We are so quiet that we could never be trouble makers. I do understand that if a teacher expects an intp to finish homework or a project that the intp just isn't into we won't do it.

But this is the American style of teaching. In other countries I think the story is different. I remember in India as a child, I refused to write a word in class even though at home I knew everything they asked us to memorize and could finish assignments while my mom watched. Some thing about the school system just didn't entice me to write. There was only one teacher in whose class (geography) I did well and I remember her being the only nice one. I actually have a memory of when I was 6 of my English teacher walking into my geography class and insulting me in front of my geography teacher, and fellow students, and her defending me. I think the only reason I memorized those useless facts (who cares what the main exports of Nepal are?) were because she was a caring nice teacher.

 

[Sylzarra]

Kinara that was hilarious by the way.

And I think it would be clearer if people included where they went to school (western teaching or eastern) it makes a big difference.

 

[lucazin]

The only problem I always had with teachers as the fact that all them seemed wait a lot about me through the year. That I'd be the "perfect student". Seems that something in being quiet and give the impression of taking attention in the classroom is a deadline.

They all had already lost their hopes at January, because one thing I hate is homework and group works. I hate people saying what is and isn't important to learn but I don't fell so piss out in classroom because I know if get anything about what is being said in classroom I'll do fine in exams. I didn't enjoy group works because I wait until the last moment to do a work and rarely finish it before what makes another "exemplar" students get angry with me.

 

[Perseus]

Pass. I didn't go to school after the age of 14. England 1960s. This was illegal but they didn't want me there disrupting the classes, so they turned a blind eye. Popped in to do a few exams which I passed if they did not require rote learning, or actually reading the set books.

 

[Kianara]

I just sit here in the failed American educational system and bide my time. I take easy classes and use the spare time I have to read and teach myself subjects of my own choosing.

 

[Sylzarra]

Well the American system looks for consistent low quality work over time, but the eastern system evaluates based on a few pivotal tests. If an Intp slacks off for a few years its ok because what matters are the big tests every few years. So if one got serious like 2 months before one of these tests they will pass.

 

[Sylzarra]

How ever in the eastern system especially in places like China, Japan, and India, social acceptance is based on being a good student in school. So if one wasn’t consistent with their studying and suddenly did really well on these tests, this would breed hostility and subject the person to bullying and social stigma.
In addition teachers are very biased towards ‘good students’ so its likely that the bullying will go unchecked making life a living hell for the person.

 

[Da Blob]

After reading the above comments, I wonder how some of us would have turned out if we did not have access to a library/internet. I see insanity or anti-social behavior in the extreme possible outcomes.

 

[Kianara]

Hrm... I pretty much hid in the library during Elementary school years. I would finish my work first, then ask to go to the library while everyone else worked on what I'd finished for the next hour...

 

[Perseus]

After reading the above comments, I wonder how some of us would have turned out if we did not have access to a library/internet. I see insanity or anti-social behavior in the extreme possible outcomes.

I was a compulsive reader outside the curriculum, but I had to go to work (in a mundane job) to afford to buy the books.

 

[Da Blob]

I wonder if INTPians could organize and provide an educational structure for our younger 'siblings', ( a type of Home-schooling). If nothing else it could make the basis for a good conspiracy theory...

INPTians, Now is the Time to Unite!!

 

[Kianara]

Can INTJs join the revolution?

 

[Da Blob]

Can INTJs join the revolution?

I would think we would have to put that to a vote within the community
But as far as I'm concerned some of them would be welcome
(the above is a Selfishly motivated statement: I'm just barely an INTP, very close to being demoted to an INTJ)

 

[Kidege]

If Js join it might actually work. We'd just talk it to death.

 

[Kianara]

We can all talk about it together and work out what's best, then the Js will actually implement the plan while the Ps keep on improving the concept. Then we'll be constantly improving and constantly growing. It just might work

 

[Da Blob]

We can all talk about it together and work out what's best, then the Js will actually implement the plan while the Ps keep on improving the concept. Then we'll be constantly improving and constantly growing. It just might work

EEK! this could actually work. I have been dodging my destiny as a teacher for quite some time now, and I Imagine that if an effort was made to recruit INT_s as 'Instructors' we could quickly assemble a rather impressive faculty...

 

[Kidege]

EEK! this could actually work. I have been dodging my destiny as a teacher for quite some time now, and I Imagine that if an effort was made to recruit INT_s as 'Instructors' we could quickly assemble a rather impressive faculty...

*snorts* I've been dodging it for the last... 6 years, now? And I always end up teaching. Cease your struggles, Blob. Resistance is futile!

 

[Da Blob]

*snorts* I've been dodging it for the last... 6 years, now? And I always end up teaching. Cease your struggles, Blob. Resistance is futile!

Yeah! perhaps you are right! A few years back I realized that my Anti-establishment attitude formed during my Hippie phase of post-adolescent was becoming outdated.
Big Business had won and rapidly was evolving into Big Brother. This vague unease was validated by somehow reviewing Erikson's Lifetime Developmental model and I found myself squarely on the wrong side of the Stagnation versus Generation issue.
My area of expertise had been Child Psychology so I returned to college to become a teacher. However, in frustration,I started to pull my hair out shortly thereafter, educators are still totally ignoring the work of Child Psychologists in the Process of Education.
That is what I find so humorous (darkly so) about some of the ranting of the Logicists in this forum. There is very little evidence in the current social structures that human beings, by nature, are logical creatures...
At the same time, I am ranked in the top of the nation (on some scales) yet I am still stagnating...

 

[Kianara]

Hmmm.... so we've got Blob and Kidege as teachers... who else? I'll be an administrator-type person who will do the necessary things like fill out forms and set deadlines and -gasp- schedules.

Imagine a school taught by IN--s and managed by IN-Js. It would be an educational explosion. Maybe even kidnap a few ENTJs to deal with public relations. *considers*

 

[Da Blob]

Hmmm.... so we've got Blob and Kidege as teachers... who else? I'll be an administrator-type person who will do the necessary things like fill out forms and set deadlines and -gasp- schedules.

Imagine a school taught by IN--s and managed by IN-Js. It would be an educational explosion. Maybe even kidnap a few ENTJs to deal with public relations. *considers*

Well, if anyone is thinking ahead on this matter there is the Hurdle of Accreditation to take into account(?) I believe that there is an association of Home School/Internet Schools that offer Accreditation, but I do not know how that accreditation is viewed by entities of the larger education industry...

It seems ridiculous, graduates of our school would probably test out in the top 1 or 2 percentiles on various and sundry standardized tests (if only because we could begin with the top 1 or 2 %), but that may not be enough...

 

[Kianara]

Okay, so we take your generally reclusive geniuses and teach them the way they want to be taught to help them realize their full potential and take their rightful place in the 98th and 99th percentile.

Then we organize our alumni and spread our influence until we have a good intelligence network.

Then we take over the world and institute these types of teaching facilities all over the world.

And attempt to isolate the stupidity gene and keep it's bearers from mating.

 

[Da Blob]

Okay, so we take your generally reclusive geniuses and teach them the way they want to be taught to help them realize their full potential and take their rightful place in the 98th and 99th percentile.

Then we organize our alumni and spread our influence until we have a good intelligence network.

Then we take over the world and institute these types of teaching facilities all over the world.

And attempt to isolate the stupidity gene and keep it's bearers from mating.

Well 3 of 4 are doable goals. But I was just thinking of adding some side rooms to this forum to be used as classrooms, utilizing a Blackboard application or something similar software such as those applications being used by the online Universities that are cropping up in America

We might already possess the infrastructure for a enviable "intelligence" network,
But I'll leave the "taking over the world " thing in the hands of our INTJ alumni

 

[Fukyo]

Okay, so we take your generally reclusive geniuses and teach them the way they want to be taught to help them realize their full potential and take their rightful place in the 98th and 99th percentile.

Then we organize our alumni and spread our influence until we have a good intelligence network.

Then we take over the world and institute these types of teaching facilities all over the world.

And attempt to isolate the stupidity gene and keep it's bearers from mating.

This is so INTJ...

 

[Anthile]

Okay, so we take your generally reclusive geniuses and teach them the way they want to be taught to help them realize their full potential and take their rightful place in the 98th and 99th percentile.

Then we organize our alumni and spread our influence until we have a good intelligence network.

Then we take over the world and institute these types of teaching facilities all over the world.

And attempt to isolate the stupidity gene and keep it's bearers from mating.

This is so hot...

 

[Fukyo]

It reminds me of that "ENTJ world domination" thing I saw somewhere on the web.

 

[hopefulmonster]

I think I'd be a terrible teacher in a public school setting unless it was for some kind of specialized learning/gate program. I'd hyperfocus on the 5 brightest kids in the class and leave the rest to rot. I suspect that most of us would do the same.

 

[Sylzarra]

Now now, I know an intp ruled world seems nice, but other types have other uses and needs. We need to accommodate them too. We shouldn't breed them out.

 

[Kianara]

Okay, so we take your generally reclusive geniuses and teach them the way they want to be taught to help them realize their full potential and take their rightful place in the 98th and 99th percentile.

Then we organize our alumni and spread our influence until we have a good intelligence network.

Then we take over the world and institute these types of teaching facilities all over the world.

And attempt to isolate the stupidity gene and keep it's bearers from mating.

This is so INTJ...

This is so hot...

hehe... yeah, I know. But someone has to do it.

Well 3 of 4 are doable goals. But I was just thinking of adding some side rooms to this forum to be used as classrooms, utilizing a Blackboard application or something similar software such as those applications being used by the online Universities that are cropping up in America

We might already possess the infrastructure for a enviable "intelligence" network,
But I'll leave the "taking over the world " thing in the hands of our INTJ alumni

That's a very interesting concept. Should we open a thread in the suggestions area? I'm not sure what we could do as far as a virtual blackboard, but we could use Skype or Gizmo to have live classroom chat with voice and the like.

You're probably right, I think this forum has informants in every 1st world country and quite a few 2nd world countries. We could launch a takeover right now.

I think I'd be a terrible teacher in a public school setting unless it was for some kind of specialized learning/gate program. I'd hyperfocus on the 5 brightest kids in the class and leave the rest to rot. I suspect that most of us would do the same.

Exactly. Our school would only accept the 5 brightest kids. The rest are doing fine in the existing public school system. It meets their needs well enough. What it isn't doing is challenging those '5 brightest.' We're gonna meet their needs.

Now now, I know an intp ruled world seems nice, but other types have other uses and needs. We need to accommodate them too. We shouldn't breed them out.

I wasn't suggesting killing off people. Just... oh nevermind. Anything I say at this point will just make me sound like a Nazi.