differentiating healthy from unhealthy INTPs

[Rudolph Mondal]

So here's a question: How do we distinguish healthy from unhealthy INTPs? In other words, what makes someone necessarily an INTP regardless of how mentally healthy that person is? In other other words, what remains invariant across any INTP one might encounter?

Of course, comparisons with other types are welcome as well.

EDIT: Another question popped in my mind: In what ways are healthy INTPs different from unhealthy ones?

 

[Yellow]

It's hard to say. I guess spending too much time mired in Ti would make an INTP unhealthy. He/she needs the Ne to instigate a system of checks and balances mitigating the narrowminded tendencies of the Ti.

But I am biased in this subject because I think the biggest waste of INTPness is when one is unwilling or unable to be brutally honest with him/herself. There is an essential need to conduct a searching and thorough inventory of one's foundation beliefs on a fairly regular basis, or risk an increasing corruption of thought.

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

It's hard to say. I guess spending too much time mired in Ti would make an INTP unhealthy. He/she needs the Ne to instigate a system of checks and balances mitigating the narrowminded tendencies of the Ti.

But I am biased in this subject because I think the biggest waste of INTPness is when one is unwilling or unable to be brutally honest with him/herself. There is an essential need to conduct a searching and thorough inventory of one's foundation beliefs on a fairly regular basis, or risk an increasing corruption of thought.

Thank you for your answer.

Would what you described be similar to what is known as a Ti-Si loop?

EDIT: A related question that I hope you or someone else can answer is what is Ti? Rather, what is Ti when left unbalanced by Ne?

 

[Sinny91]

What is Ti when left unbalanced by Ne?

What does this mean?

Apparently me and my cousin are both INTP. I was dubious of her self typing at first because I thought if my cousin was an INTP I would know immediately - I've known her all my life. Our interests and priorities are completely different too - But after some consideration, and further education (on MBTI) her typing did all begin to make sense.

She is just, from my POV, an 'unhealthy' INTP.
She's proper klepto, and manipulative - and rather immoral.

Apart from that I can recognise the cognitive functions at play.

I've been unhealthy like that in the past myself, have been manipulative (and stuff) - but I wouldn't commit some of the acts my cousin has - my crimes tend to be victimless.

I'm not the best when it comes to MBTI, but there's my 2 cents, towards something you can draw from.

I'm unsure if I'm interpreting the OP correctly, but would I be correct in assuming that it's the cognitive functions that are invariable across healthy and unhealthy INTP's - and in terms of differences, one might want to look at other models, such as the motivations provided by Enneagram?

 

[Jennywocky]

i.e., when you are overusing a Judging function without taking in / gathering information through a Perceiving function.

I mean, theoretically, it seems pretty simple to figure out what it might look like.

 

[Sinny91]

Ahh, gotcha. I think.

So in answer to the question posed.. 'What is Ti when left unbalanced by Ne' - would the answer be, short sightedness? Narrow mindedness?, close mindedness?

 

[Jennywocky]

Ahh, gotcha. I think.

So in answer to the question posed.. 'What is Ti when left unbalanced by Ne' - would the answer be, short sightedness? Narrow mindedness?, closeminded ness?

Generally, yeah.

Ti is trying to just build logical constructs, as expediently as possible, with blinders on, without exploring alternate possibilities and tangential lines of reasoning.

Compare it to a box of tinker toys. Ti without Ne has a box with five tinker toy pieces in it and will build the most efficient/rational model of something it can from those five pieces, but think how much more accurately and efficiently it can model something when Ne keeps shoveling pieces into it... Not the perfect example, but it's one aspect of it.

 

[Sinny91]

What would cause Ne to falter, or not do it's job correctly? Or not act as efficiently as usual?

The only thing that comes to mind so far, is like dogma/belief/stigma/denial

If you get what I mean?

 

[Jennywocky]

What would cause Ne to falter, or not do it's job correctly? Or not act as efficiently as usual?

The only thing that comes to mind so far, is like dogma/belief/stigma/denial

If you get what I mean?

sure -- some kind of restriction. Kind of like keeping your dog (Ne) on a short leash so it can't run around, find shit, and bring it back for study. This could be a product of dogma, or denial, or discomfort over the thought of entering ambiguous territory where things might not make sense right away if at all.

 

[Brontosaurie]

Unhealthy ones try and fail to achieve popularity.

Healthy ones don't. They are fine with being misunderstood and disliked as long as they have some friends who get them, and if they don't - they will morph into a righteous bundle of unrelenting hatred. This isn't unhealthy in itself, but a healthy response to an unhealthy social environment. All TP types are a bit like cultural failsafes in this way, by virtue of Ti.

That is the core difference. Anything else is just fluttering about.

The commonality is a high capacity for analysis and a low capacity for communication. The difference lies in whether you resist this nature or deal with it. INTP's are capable of being ultimate vigilante badasses but most of them are stuck in sociophobic anxiety. You could be hacking the government or synthesizing LSD but what are you doing? Mostly trying to align your intellects with cultural marxism.

 

[Sinny91]

Unhealthy ones try and fail to achieve popularity.

Mm, from the two other INTP's I know, this has not been the case with them.
My cousin for one - she's a cunt and proud.

And then my best friend who has also typed at INTP. He's been on some sort of downward spiral of late. Withdrawn, and projecting his issue's onto others - passive aggresively.

He's not interested in being popular.
Although I do sense he's frustrated at not having found his social niche yet.

Dunno, I'm quite 'popular' - and quite oblivious/aloof to it - I can be socially awkward as fuck, but gaining friends and admirers has never been an issue for me.

In some ways I can relate, in others I can't.

 

[Brontosaurie]

Mm, from the two other INTP's I know, this has not been the case with them.
My cousin for one - she's a cunt and proud.

And then my best friend who has also typed at INTP. He's been on some sort of downward spiral of late. Withdrawn, and projecting his issue's onto others - passive aggresively.

He's not interested in being popular.
Although I do sense he's frustrated at not having found his social niche yet.

Dunno, I'm quite 'popular' - and quite oblivious/aloof to it - I can be socially awkward as fuck, but gaining friends and admirers has never been an issue for me.

In some ways I can relate, in others I can't.

Your cousin is likely ISFP and your friend is likely INTJ.

I've seen nothing so far indicating you are INTP.

Stop trusting the tests and learn the concepts.

 

[Sinny91]

Your cousin is likely ISFP and your friend is likely INTJ.

I've seen nothing so far indicating you are INTP.

I thought you might come out with such crap, aha.

I'm just relaying to you all what the test says - and I trust the test.

Personally, with the information I've provided, If you can't see that I'm an INTP, you are blind as a bat... But what do I know?

 

[Brontosaurie]

I trust the test.

My edit just got even more spot on.

Don't.

No more OT from me now.

 

[Sinny91]

Why make life hard - if walks like a duck and quacks like a duck,. it's probably a fooking duck.

But if you want to get technical, there's always empirical data, in the form of all the tests I've participated in and published here (and else where under my permanent user name) - who can fake consistant correlations (with other INTP's) like that.

And that is why I find your accusations petulant and inadequate.

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

Straying from the thread but I'd like to ask this question anyway:

Is it possible for an individual to not fall into any categories because he/she is too underdeveloped?

EDIT: Personally I consider myself an underdeveloped type but my own understanding of myself leans most closely to that of an INTP (but I could be wrong). Let's try not to make this about me though.

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

Unhealthy ones try and fail to achieve popularity.

Healthy ones don't.

Might this have something to do with the inferior Fe function being too overwhelming?

 

[WALKYRIA]

Being currently in an amazingly healthy period I can say that being healthy more or less comes down to two things: Feeling good about oneself( thus peace of mind; good self-esteem) + being functional( in whatever the things that you do; good ego !).

Of course there are many other things but If I had to sum up why I feel healthy comparatively to before, it would be these two things.
Also, in my case.. I've been borderline depressed these last years(Quartr life crisis) and tested INTP; these last days to be frank I feel more like an ENTP rather than an INTP( or an INTP with massive Ne). Or maybe I'm a lucky healthy INTP? Dunno..

In my case.
Unhealthy INTP(depressed INTP?):
- High internal tension, irritable, hostile, sarcastic and nihilistic.
- Unable to get women because of emiting bad energy/ restlessness--> relationships problems.
- Negativity, auto-sabotaging.
- Bad company, critical of others while sensitive to critics, withdrawn,..etc
- Lack of energy, lack of motivation
- socially awkward; paranoiac about people's feelings.

Healthy INTP:
- The major change was having more energy, feeling more worthy and powerful.
- Ease with women.
- less critical of people(more accepting)
- more natural interaction and connecting with the world and people.
- Socially more comfortable and normal.
- Also I feel great about myself, I look good, I smell good, I talk smart, I'm positive about myself and the world, I feel able to go for the things I want,.... Waouw.(Lol, Looks like an ENTP persona)
- I feel in control of the whole range of my personality and skills.
- life is considerably easier.

The only paranoia/ obsession I get when I'm healthy is the fear of being too succesful, popular or too powerful for my own sake compared to people around me.( Which ENTP don't have since they are more okay with the dark side/manipulation and influencing people/...etc because they ThInk less about al the consequences lol)

But then was I unhealthy or just depressed because both seem to overlap. Or did i just switched momentaly to an easier type to have( ENTP) in society, once I developped Ne good enough?! Like said in most INTP profiles, things began to be more or less good around mid twenties... before that it was hell man ! The people, I swear... lol
Now I feel like my life is more or less figured out and that all I have to do is to go and get it.( Which is a Ne dominant way of approaching thing no?).

good luck to all the people still searching for themselves...

 

[WALKYRIA]

The other thing that makes being healthy and intp hard in my opinion is that for an intp, health is a dynamic process. By that I mean, if the situation you're in makes you healthy, it will soon or later become boring and old if you don't keep things exciting by learning, constant stimulation, new challenges etc... That's I guess one of the main pet peeves of being INTP. Familliarity and Becoming bored with one's environement.
Go INTPs !

 

[Haim]

I have only my own experience to respond,my own weakness.
To summarize over using your strength where it does not belong.
Not realizing your own weakness,ignoring feelings instead of using them as other input.
Holding down feelings based actions even when it is the batter solution.
I should have used my intuition more,earlier in life.
The army,was like a huge vaccine shot.

 

[Intolerable]

It really isn't a subjective state of being. Meaning if you are unhealthy emotionally you are most likely unhealthy physically.

An INTP is perfectly healthy so long as you don't allow your obsessions to control every single hour of the day. Exercise is boring as ever but you still need to do it every day for at least 30 minutes.

It boils down to one of those things that don't make you feel better instantly but gradually life improves. My own emotional swings end when I stick to a sound diet, don't indulge, exercise every day, sleep appropriately ( which is reasonable if you do everything else ).

A good indicator is to look at yourself in a mirror. Are your eyes clear? Is your skin clear? If not, these are pretty solid indicators your lifestyle is killing you.

 

[WALKYRIA]

Is it possible for an individual to not fall into any categories because he/she is too underdeveloped?

I see development and health as two different things, I could be wrong though.
WIth that In mind, you can get many combinations. Young and immature INTP growing up in a nurturing family vs growing up in a shitty social environement; or Old, wealthy and mature INTP professor or creator or business man VS old and grumpy broke and divorced INTP. Not to say that age is synonymous with dvlpment but it seem to be so in mbti theories(while health is not).

Devlopment
x I x
I
I
-----------I-----------Health
I
I
x I x
Dvpmt

 

[Hadoblado]

Not in this thread bronto. Take it to witch-hunt (assuming Sinny's signed up), or don't do it at all.

As for the topic at hand:

I think JellowYockey has the right of it with lack of Ne. INTP is all about being creative and critical, and if you end up with only half the package you're either not INTP, or one that for whatever reason has failed to develop one of their primary functions.

From a societal perspective, an unhealthy INTP is one that doesn't learn passing peoplish. If you don't learn to get by in small talk etc. people are going to label you autistic and dismiss you.

As Walkyria says too, energy is an enormous deal. Without energy I find myself trapped in a shitcycle. With energy I'm able to choose the elements of my life I want around, which lays the foundation for progress in thoughts as well as well-being.

 

[Happy]

Being currently in an amazingly healthy period I can say that being healthy more or less comes down to two things: Feeling good about oneself( thus peace of mind; good self-esteem) + being functional( in whatever the things that you do; good ego !).

Of course there are many other things but If I had to sum up why I feel healthy comparatively to before, it would be these two things.
Also, in my case.. I've been borderline depressed these last years(Quartr life crisis) and tested INTP; these last days to be frank I feel more like an ENTP rather than an INTP( or an INTP with massive Ne). Or maybe I'm a lucky healthy INTP? Dunno..

In my case.
Unhealthy INTP(depressed INTP?):
- High internal tension, irritable, hostile, sarcastic and nihilistic.
- Unable to get women because of emiting bad energy/ restlessness--> relationships problems.
- Negativity, auto-sabotaging.
- Bad company, critical of others while sensitive to critics, withdrawn,..etc
- Lack of energy, lack of motivation
- socially awkward; paranoiac about people's feelings.

Healthy INTP:
- The major change was having more energy, feeling more worthy and powerful.
- Ease with women.
- less critical of people(more accepting)
- more natural interaction and connecting with the world and people.
- Socially more comfortable and normal.
- Also I feel great about myself, I look good, I smell good, I talk smart, I'm positive about myself and the world, I feel able to go for the things I want,.... Waouw.(Lol, Looks like an ENTP persona)
- I feel in control of the whole range of my personality and skills.
- life is considerably easier.

The only paranoia/ obsession I get when I'm healthy is the fear of being too succesful, popular or too powerful for my own sake compared to people around me.( Which ENTP don't have since they are more okay with the dark side/manipulation and influencing people/...etc because they ThInk less about al the consequences lol)

But then was I unhealthy or just depressed because both seem to overlap. Or did i just switched momentaly to an easier type to have( ENTP) in society, once I developped Ne good enough?! Like said in most INTP profiles, things began to be more or less good around mid twenties... before that it was hell man ! The people, I swear... lol
Now I feel like my life is more or less figured out and that all I have to do is to go and get it.( Which is a Ne dominant way of approaching thing no?).

good luck to all the people still searching for themselves...

I like this post.

I relate very much to your definitions of healthy and unhealthy INTP behaviour. I've been having difficulty in the recent months, jumping between your definitions of healthy and unhealthy, and I think this has helped me clarify things.

I've been jumping between these 'healthy' and 'unhealthy' expressions on a regular basis, particularly affecting my dating life. For instance, I've tended to ride the 'healthy' expression and easily charm people (women) and things will be going well, but then I'll have an 'unhealthy' day and just be an absolute asshole without any sense of control over it. Then it's just a matter of counting down the days before they tell me they'd rather not see me again

In other areas, most people I interact with on a regular basis know I swing between different personalities, and it doesn't really bother them. A common joke between them is something along the lines of "Which [Happy] do you think we're going to get today?" - which I find quite amusing.

I think it's something to do with the Ti-Ne balance. I think on my unhealthy days, I'm locked onto Ti, but when I'm healthy, Ti and Ne work harmoniously. Another healthy expression is when I'm just completely bonkers, which I suppose is Ne taking over, and it's generally when I'm at my most likeable.

May I ask, how do you (or anyone else who sees themselves as 'healthy') think you've managed to reside on the 'healthy' end of the spectrum?

EDIT: The unhealthy expression I describe has been only a recent thing, past few months or so. As if I've reverted to stage 1 for a day or something, and it doesn't happen often.

 

[Pizzabeak]

Being currently in an amazingly healthy period I can say that being healthy more or less comes down to two things: Feeling good about oneself( thus peace of mind; good self-esteem) + being functional( in whatever the things that you do; good ego !).

Of course there are many other things but If I had to sum up why I feel healthy comparatively to before, it would be these two things.
Also, in my case.. I've been borderline depressed these last years(Quartr life crisis) and tested INTP; these last days to be frank I feel more like an ENTP rather than an INTP( or an INTP with massive Ne). Or maybe I'm a lucky healthy INTP? Dunno..

In my case.
Unhealthy INTP(depressed INTP?):
- High internal tension, irritable, hostile, sarcastic and nihilistic.
- Unable to get women because of emiting bad energy/ restlessness--> relationships problems.
- Negativity, auto-sabotaging.
- Bad company, critical of others while sensitive to critics, withdrawn,..etc
- Lack of energy, lack of motivation
- socially awkward; paranoiac about people's feelings.

Healthy INTP:
- The major change was having more energy, feeling more worthy and powerful.
- Ease with women.
- less critical of people(more accepting)
- more natural interaction and connecting with the world and people.
- Socially more comfortable and normal.
- Also I feel great about myself, I look good, I smell good, I talk smart, I'm positive about myself and the world, I feel able to go for the things I want,.... Waouw.(Lol, Looks like an ENTP persona)
- I feel in control of the whole range of my personality and skills.
- life is considerably easier.

The only paranoia/ obsession I get when I'm healthy is the fear of being too succesful, popular or too powerful for my own sake compared to people around me.( Which ENTP don't have since they are more okay with the dark side/manipulation and influencing people/...etc because they ThInk less about al the consequences lol)

But then was I unhealthy or just depressed because both seem to overlap. Or did i just switched momentaly to an easier type to have( ENTP) in society, once I developped Ne good enough?! Like said in most INTP profiles, things began to be more or less good around mid twenties... before that it was hell man ! The people, I swear... lol
Now I feel like my life is more or less figured out and that all I have to do is to go and get it.( Which is a Ne dominant way of approaching thing no?).

good luck to all the people still searching for themselves...

All you did was list dark sounding character traits and then list the exact opposite descriptions in the next paragraph. But it looks like healthy is defined as being a balanced human being, with considerable faculties in the work/social sphere. In that case, I'm not sure if a healthy INTP (and do feel free to correct me on this) is just one with, irrespective of other qualities or traits for the time being, a decent amount of time being spent around groups of people, and so has gained more general comfort with being his or herself. I would assume that this person, after required social immersion, on free time heads right back out to seek more social immersion - although not necessarily required. If this person were truly INTP then they would suffer, sooner than later, and I don't see how that would be in accordance with an healthy INTP. If anything, maybe a balanced one but healthy, I'm not so sure.
So what you did was basically describe a balanced person of virtually any type, not necessarily just a 'healthy INTP'. I say balanced because incorporation of all functions, more so than usual, can bring about a similar 'healthy' state in an individual. I would then go on to say that an 'unhealthy' person could just as well have 'ease with women' or 'less critical of people'. Similarly, however, that feeling functional thus having more energy, could be a sign of healthy but chances are that person could be functioning even more efficiently in a different niche which, I suppose, could just end up making them super healthier? It really just amounts to someone not having his or her coffee that morning.
Unfortunately, I think Bronto said it best when he said, "Unhealthy ones try and fail to achieve popularity.

Healthy ones don't. They are fine with being misunderstood and disliked as long as they have some friends who get them, and if they don't - they will morph into a righteous bundle of unrelenting hatred. This isn't unhealthy in itself, but a healthy response to an unhealthy social environment." As an aside I might also add that a healthy any-type probably appears like what a normal human being should be. To ES's, a healthy INTP probably looks unhealthy.

 

[Larah]

I think its simple....unhealthy intps struggle with depression anxiety.... likany types do..... everything seems so dark and gloomy... I remember struggling through depression years ago, I myself from everyone... Didnt talk to anyone..... when people that cared about me asked me if I was okey or whats wrong I acted cool, like nothings wrong.... didnt want anyone in.my business, although I was going through a tough time. But when I compare now to then I am more social and enthusiastic and I always have something intersting on my mind....Ya like I need me time on a daily basis, but not ALL day.... and me time isnt as gloomy as it used to be... but as for me the difference is mostly in the inside.... maybe its not as noticable from the outside compared to other types... or maybe that was just me

 

[WALKYRIA]

LArah, I love your way of thinking.... can we marry now?
Thanx

 

[Tannhauser]

LArah, I love your way of thinking.... can we marry now?
Thanx

lol forum-based cold approaching?

 

[Larah]

great minds
Think alike WALKYRIA lol

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Generally, yeah.

Ti is trying to just build logical constructs, as expediently as possible, with blinders on, without exploring alternate possibilities and tangential lines of reasoning.

Compare it to a box of tinker toys. Ti without Ne has a box with five tinker toy pieces in it and will build the most efficient/rational model of something it can from those five pieces, but think how much more accurately and efficiently it can model something when Ne keeps shoveling pieces into it... Not the perfect example, but it's one aspect of it.

Agreed.

But it still doesn't necessarily make for an 'unhealthy' INTP. And I would think that 'erring' on the side of introversion actually makes for the most healthy and productive INTP possible, since our preferred state is introversion.

I am sure that most of the inventions created by INTPs have been born of introverted loops, for example.

I am quite content spending large amounts of time in Ni/Ti world, and actually do my best and most supernatural meditating there.


I think any type becomes unhealthy when fear, abuse, neglect, or laid-in false beliefs are allowed to predominate and guide one into a forced state of being that is not ideal for the moment. If I'm needing to get me some Ne/Se/Fe/Te to feed my Ti/Ni and I am not able to do it for whatever reason, then over time, I might manifest atypical and unhealthy behaviors.

The typical ones for INTPs being suspicion, distrust, and paranoia, because we stop gathering data prematurely. Another area of problem is when we stubbornly refuse to use Fe when we should, making us appear unusually cold, aloof, or stubborn to a fault. (i have been guilty of this of late).

Of course, it depends on what your definition of 'unhealthy' is, OP.

 

[Brontosaurie]

great minds
Think alike WALKYRIA lol

Great minds miss the point and write about "unhealthy person" instead of "unhealthy INTP person".

 

[Yellow]

I am quite content spending large amounts of time in Ni/Ti world, and actually do my best and most supernatural meditating there.


I think any type becomes unhealthy when fear, abuse, neglect, or laid-in false beliefs are allowed to predominate and guide one into a forced state of being that is not ideal for the moment. If I'm needing to get me some Ne/Se/Fe/Te to feed my Ti/Ni and I am not able to do it for whatever reason, then over time, I might manifest atypical and unhealthy behaviors.

Can you elaborate on how this Ti/Ni and Ne/Se/Fe/Te works in a healthy INTP?

 

[WALKYRIA]

Great minds miss the point and write about "unhealthy person" instead of "unhealthy INTP person".

Lol, great minds don't care about single dots. They care about the globality of points.
INTP Unhealthy person? May I remind you that INTP is also a person?
Or maybe being that logical machine that you are, you need a demonstration?
Right:
- Everyone is a person.
- Therefore an INTP person is a person.
- Therefore an "unhealthy intp person"= "unhealthy person".

Elementary my dear Bronto !

great minds
Think alike WALKYRIA lol

Thanks Larah, that was exactly my point...
Anyway, Welcome to the forum. Hope you'll enjoy yourself.
Also curious to know about your intp experience, so I will be looking forward to hear from you on the introit section of the forum.

 

[Sinny91]

The typical ones for INTPs being suspicion, distrust, and paranoia, because we stop gathering data prematurely. Another area of problem is when we stubbornly refuse to use Fe when we should, making us appear unusually cold, aloof, or stubborn to a fault. (i have been guilty of this of late).

Yea, and when I'm in an unhealthy mind set, I generally just make a whole bunch of self destructive decisions, knowing full well - spiting myself. Drawing on nihilistic philosophies to justify my self destruction.

 

[Haim]

Lol, great minds don't care about single dots. They care about the globality of points.
INTP Unhealthy person? May I remind you that INTP is also a person?
Or maybe being that logical machine that you are, you need a demonstration?
Right:
- Everyone is a person.
- Therefore an INTP person is a person.
- Therefore an "unhealthy intp person"= "unhealthy person".

Elementary my dear Bronto !

Language isn't linear,english language is not math language(formal logic)
By saying unhealthy intp person, the meaning is an intp person the fell for his intp related weakness or don't use his intp related strength well.
He might be "healthy" but not using his full potential.
By the way your post is a perfect example for intp weakness, using logic where it does not belong.

Elementary my dear WALKYRIA !

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Can you elaborate on how this Ti/Ni and Ne/Se/Fe/Te works in a healthy INTP?

Oh, well I am sure others have done it better than I could. This is my favorite current article on INTPs:

http://www.intp.org/intprofile.html

As for how Ni works with Ti (in long doses because that is what I am most familiar with: tight introversion), it is similar to how an INFJ zones out and ideas just come to them. Ni is such a subconscious process, like Si, that is just always running in the background, seeking out intrinsic patterns to come to some meaning or truth, depending on what thought or feeling is forefront in the life of the person at the time. It's a strong introversion that really gets a lot done psychically. I imagine its extraverted analogy is something like Ne/Te that never lets up until the person is literally worn out (and everyone else around them). But it can get a lot done!

Yea, and when I'm in an unhealthy mind set, I generally just make a whole bunch of self destructive decisions, knowing full well - spiting myself. Drawing on nihilistic philosophies to justify my self destruction.

I think we are all prone to self-destructive thoughts. I am sorry you have them as well. My pastor spoke about this this weekend: http://freshlifechurch.com/series/teaching.php?id=2010&tm=2015

 

[Yellow]

Oh, well I am sure others have done it better than I could. This is my favorite current article on INTPs:

http://www.intp.org/intprofile.html

As for how Ni works with Ti (in long doses because that is what I am most familiar with: tight introversion), it is similar to how an INFJ zones out and ideas just come to them. Ni is such a subconscious process, like Si, that is just always running in the background, seeking out intrinsic patterns to come to some meaning or truth, depending on what thought or feeling is forefront in the life of the person at the time. It's a strong introversion that really gets a lot done psychically. I imagine its extraverted analogy is something like Ne/Te that never lets up until the person is literally worn out (and everyone else around them). But it can get a lot done!

This is a very interesting take, but I should mention that the link you provided contradicts your statement.

To the point, Ti and Ni are in the ISTP stack (and could possibly result in something analogous to the INTP Ti-Si loop), but INTPs don't have Ni in their stack, nor Te and Se for that matter. So, I could see your argument about a Ti-Ni loop affecting an ISTP, but I still don't understand how this would be the case for INTPs (who are Ti>Ne>Si>Fe).

 

[Larah]

Great minds miss the point and write about "unhealthy person" instead of "unhealthy INTP person".

I didn't miss the point, we were talking about healthy / unhealthy intps.... Aren't we all human beings ? Some things all human beings have in common... We get gloomy, depressed, feel lost, feel hopeless etc. By the way I have a B.A in psychology... healthy / unhealthy is basically my specialty

 

[WALKYRIA]

By the way your post is a perfect example for intp weakness, using logic where it does not belong.
Elementary my dear WALKYRIA !

By the way your post is a perfect example of aspies weakness, using erroneous rhetorics where it does not belong and failing to recognize subtle sarcasm when u see it.

Not so elementary for you it seem so, my dear Haim.

Anyway, I get that OP wanted us to speak about the specifics of INTP (mental) health; but get overyouself people and let me tell you something... INTP ARE NOT ROBOTS and they have exactly the same needs as any other human being. Sex? yeah. Food? yeah. Shelter? Yeah. Social bonds? Also yeah... same goes for health you pricks !!
That was my point guys, but you obviously missed it..

 

[Brontosaurie]

I didn't miss the point, we were talking about healthy / unhealthy intps.... Aren't we all human beings ? Some things all human beings have in common... We get gloomy, depressed, feel lost, feel hopeless etc. By the way I have a B.A in psychology... healthy / unhealthy is basically my specialty

Yes, we are all human beings. We also are all organisms. So let's talk about carbohydrates and minerals instead of specifically human concerns. That is the same logic.

Every young "intuitive" fellow must learn that further abstraction isn't always the wise move.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

This is a very interesting take, but I should mention that the link you provided contradicts your statement.

To the point, Ti and Ni are in the ISTP stack (and could possibly result in something analogous to the INTP Ti-Si loop), but INTPs don't have Ni in their stack, nor Te and Se for that matter. So, I could see your argument about a Ti-Ni loop affecting an ISTP, but I still don't understand how this would be the case for INTPs (who are Ti>Ne>Si>Fe).

I was not saying the link was an exhaustive account of function interaction. Indeed, it is more an overview of what is considered 'typical' in the first 4 preferred functions of an INTP.

My discussion of Ni/Ti and etcetera is a jumping off of that into the realm of what happens when some of us do not manifest with the 'accepted' or 'typical' functions of an INTP. After all, it's ALL just thoery.

And if an INTP cannot discuss different hypotheses, and instead adheres to the proposed hypotheses of those published, is that not more of a Te mindset?

I am an INTP and I assure you I use Ni often. Most think I am dominant Ni, but if I am not dominate Ni, then I am aux Ni.

Come out of your box and bend your mind. It's fun out here.

 

[Larah]

Yes, we are all human beings. We also are all organisms. So let's talk about carbohydrates and minerals instead of specifically human concerns. That is the same logic.

Every young "intuitive" fellow must learn that further abstraction isn't always the wise move.

Hey take it easy and stop criticizing everything I say... if I wanted to talk about carbohydrates and minerals then thats my business !!!! Even if you dont like what I say !!! Who cares!! We dont have to agree on everything!!! Isnt that what forums are all about... why take it too seriously !!!! Im sorry if I offended you in anyway.... I didnt mean anything..... I was just being myself !!!! And hey im new here, just give me a break !!

 

[Jennywocky]

Hey take it easy and stop criticizing everything I say... if I wanted to talk about carbohydrates and minerals then thats my business !!!! Even if you dont like what I say !!! Who cares!! We dont have to agree on everything!!! Isnt that what forums are all about... why take it too seriously !!!! Im sorry if I offended you in anyway.... I didnt mean anything..... I was just being myself !!!! And hey im new here, just give me a break !!

Bronto criticizes everything whether or not he is correct.
(See this thread running simultaneously to this: http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?p=513913)

Don't take it personally. If he gets too annoying for you, there's always Ignore.

 

[Haim]

By the way your post is a perfect example of aspies weakness, using erroneous rhetorics where it does not belong and failing to recognize subtle sarcasm when u see it.

Not so elementary for you it seem so, my dear Haim.

Anyway, I get that OP wanted us to speak about the specifics of INTP (mental) health; but get overyouself people and let me tell you something... INTP ARE NOT ROBOTS and they have exactly the same needs as any other human being. Sex? yeah. Food? yeah. Shelter? Yeah. Social bonds? Also yeah... same goes for health you pricks !!
That was my point guys, but you obviously missed it..

I know how to read thank you, I do understand your view but you ignore what the op really wanted to ask by saying "unhealthy INTP".
The point of the op is to improve himself, by not falling to INTP specific weaknesses.
generalising it to all traits of people would make it pointless to discuss, who is not "unhealthy" human at some point of their life?, if you live you will have some obstacles.

 

[Yellow]

...And if an INTP cannot discuss different hypotheses, and instead adheres to the proposed hypotheses of those published, is that not more of a Te mindset?

I think that's more Si, but maybe this is another part of your personal system. I'd be interested to hear more about that idea too.

I am an INTP and I assure you I use Ni often. Most think I am dominant Ni, but if I am not dominate Ni, then I am aux Ni.

Come out of your box and bend your mind. It's fun out here.

I promise this will be my last attempt here, and so I hope I won't elicit such a defensive response this time.

I am looking for a more in-depth explanation of how your unique system works, and why you think non-INTP traits (Ni, for example) can still be INTP traits.

I'm always ready to prattle off the list of flaws with the MBTI/Jungian system. However, if you are going to work within a system, it is usually prudent to either work with the existing framework (as-is) or explain how your particular philosophy (or empirical evidence) deviates from the system.

In other words, if your goal is to successfully describe a new concept in personality theory or challenge MBTI/Jungian convention, simply saying "I'm Ni-dom or Ni-aux INTP" is insufficient.

 

[Brontosaurie]

Hey take it easy and stop criticizing everything I say... if I wanted to talk about carbohydrates and minerals then thats my business !!!! Even if you dont like what I say !!! Who cares!! We dont have to agree on everything!!! Isnt that what forums are all about... why take it too seriously !!!! Im sorry if I offended you in anyway.... I didnt mean anything..... I was just being myself !!!! And hey im new here, just give me a break !!

I'm sorry that you came to a forum designed to cater to critical, debate-minded, analytical people who don't care much about niceties...

Bronto criticizes everything whether or not he is correct.
(See this thread running simultaneously to this: http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?p=513913)

Don't take it personally. If he gets too annoying for you, there's always Ignore.

Was there ever any reason to take it personally?

And am i not right in this case?

I readily admitted i was wrong in that other thread. Also you are being unfair because i'm actually right in the overwhelming majority of cases.

 

[Jennywocky]

Was there ever any reason to take it personally?

Yeah, your persistence, the context of your interactions, and the things you say can easily come off as you being argumentative for no reason. Wonder why you seem to be getting these reactions a fair amount? It's a pattern.

But really, I was giving him good advice. If he's bothered by you to the degree he's not getting anything positive out of the interaction, and if he can't deal with you differently at this time, then it's his job to look after himself. If he can learn to ignore that stuff, then maybe he'll get something out of it.

 

[Brontosaurie]

Yeah, your persistence, the context of your interactions, and the things you say can easily come off as you being argumentative for no reason. Wonder why you seem to be getting these reactions a fair amount? It's a pattern.

But really, I was giving him good advice. If he's bothered by you to the degree he's not getting anything positive out of the interaction, and if he can't deal with you differently at this time, then it's his job to look after himself. If he can learn to ignore that stuff, then maybe he'll get something out of it.

Are you saying my criticism wasn't fair though?

Have you realized that i'm functioning as the scapegoat for your own polemic side?

 

[Jennywocky]

Are you saying my criticism wasn't fair though?

Have you realized that i'm functioning as the scapegoat for your own polemic side?

It must be why I'm getting bored. My polemics have a very short half-life.
Like, I try to care, and it's just not working... Oy vey.

 

[Brontosaurie]

It must be why I'm getting bored. My polemics have a very short half-life.
Like, I try to care, and it's just not working... Oy vey.

I find it odd that you evade the question: Was i not right?

What's wrong with saying what is right?