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[LOGICZOMBIE]

children don't follow logic,

ok, i think i know where you're going with this

emotions are logical

emotions are caused

emotions have never been and can never be "beyond logic"

the only "problem" here is that people fail to recognize their own AXIOMS


it doesn't matter how "logical" two people are, if they hold different AXIOMS

they will never "make any progress" until they expose their AXIOMS

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

View attachment 7667

Argumentum ad baculum is a logical fallacy that using threats or force to persuade someone rather than valid reasoning or evidence. It is not a valid or effective form of argumentation.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

I can throw a stone and hit a bird, no logic is required.

do you have a goal ?

do you have a plan ?

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

children don't follow logic

children are pure logic

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

but it does not always work for every problem in life

please provide an example of a problem that can't be solved with logic

Star Trek (8/9) Movie CLIP - Spock Meets Spock (2009) HD​

every action is a gamble

nothing is contrary to logic

some actions may be in conflict with your stated AXIOMS

but that is merely evidence that you don't know your own AXIOMS

 

[EndogenousRebel]

View attachment 7667

Argumentum ad baculum is a logical fallacy that using threats or force to persuade someone rather than valid reasoning or evidence. It is not a valid or effective form of argumentation.

This is a quote from an interview Mike Tyson gave. Did you feel physically threatened when you saw this? I would find that very interesting.


Things undergo operations. We can use logic to explain that. Logic itself does not exist.

Logic is a description. I can describe something, that description might be accurate. My description itself won't be real as anything else but a representation.

The polar covalent bonds in water making them easy to stick together, maintain surface tension, is not possible through logic. They are characteristics about the object and they interact in a coherent way.

 

[ZenRaiden]

emotions are logical

Yes.

emotions are caused

Emotions are the cause

emotions have never been and can never be "beyond logic"

Emotions are many things, depends on what functional utility they have.

the only "problem" here is that people fail to recognize their own AXIOMS

axiom is a premise that is absolutely demonstrably true.
For instance people who are depressed can barely get out of bed.
People remember things better if there is emotion.
Children learn faster and grown ups to with play.
Women can make a man do things he would otherwise never do.
A cute puppy will make us take care of it and angry dog snapping at us will make us kick it.
A drowning child will make us jump into freezing water and save it.
A car that drops on a man will make a woman lift a car.
Emotions are very powerful things.
If they can do so many things, what makes us think they do not influence our thinking and logic?
Sure if axioms.

it doesn't matter how "logical" two people are, if they hold different AXIOMS

they will never "make any progress" until they expose their AXIOMS

Yes and no, we can start at different axioms and arrive at same conclusions. Convergence principal.
Experimentally Da Vinci and Wright brothers arrived at the same solutions, but started with different ideas. One worked the other did not or maybe partially it did.
Because reality.

 

[ZenRaiden]

do you have a goal ?

do you have a plan ?

Do you reason yourself into goals and plans?

 

[Black Rose]

emotions are logical

emotions are caused

emotions have never been and can never be "beyond logic"

every action is a gamble

nothing is contrary to logic

Do you reason yourself into goals and plans?

The first cause argument is that God exists because he was the first mover.

The will to do anything must be because something started everything.

But what made this happen is unknown.

Blue and green, red and yellow are colors but no one knows logically why they feel a certain way. I do not logically know why strawberries have the taste they do, why the qualia is the way it is.

Yellow is yellow because God (?)

 

[Black Rose]

View attachment 7667

Argumentum ad baculum is a logical fallacy that using threats or force to persuade someone rather than valid reasoning or evidence. It is not a valid or effective form of argumentation.

This is a quote from an interview Mike Tyson gave.

One time I tried to reason with a person but they just attacked me.

logic did not solve my problem at all.

 

[Black Rose]

logic did not solve my problem at all.

all the problems I have had COULD have been solved,

but they were not solved

because

REALITY IS NOT ABOUT SOLVING ALL PROBLEMS.

logic cannot solve all problems, it can solve some but not all.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Do you reason yourself into goals and plans?

AXIOMS are the anchor points for your goals

in order for your actions and intentions to be COHERENT

you must identify your own AXIOMS

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

One time I tried to reason with a person but they just attacked me.

self-preservation is perfectly logical

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

logic cannot solve all problems, it can solve some but not all.

all problems that are SOLVABLE

can be solved with logic

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

The first cause argument is that God exists because he was the first mover.

right, so which very specific god do you think this is "evidence" of ?

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Blue and green, red and yellow are colors but no one knows logically why they feel a certain way. I do not logically know why strawberries have the taste they do, why the qualia is the way it is.

evolutionary advantage

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Emotions are the cause

emotions are not the origin of emotions

emotions are physiological communication signals

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

axiom is a premise that is absolutely demonstrably true.

not necessarily,


An axiom is a statement or proposition that is accepted as true without requiring proof, serving as a starting point for further reasoning or argumentation.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

If they can do so many things, what makes us think they do not influence our thinking and logic?

AXIOMS are the origin of both emotion and logic

self-preservation is a primary AXIOM

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Experimentally Da Vinci and Wright brothers arrived at the same solutions, but started with different ideas.

premise one - a bird can fly and so it is reasonable to presume we can build a machine that can also fly

premise two - hydrodynamic principles also apply to aerodynamics

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Things undergo operations. We can use logic to explain that. Logic itself does not exist.

logic is not an object

abstract nouns are not concrete nouns

i'm not sure what point you think you're making here

 

[scorpiomover]

Certain people should just admit that they didn't really understand what logic was, and other certain people should admit that logic can lead you to absurd conclusions that humans can reason with so much better without the use of formal logic.

Why?

• Are you good at formal logic? If so, then why are you trying to claim that all of the people who didn't finish high school are so much better at everything than you?
• Are you bad at formal logic? Then how would you know if formal logic has flaws in it?

This is pure theatrics. @EndogenousRebel even agrees with me that you're being theatrical:

@EndogenousRebel said that this does not reflect reality, that speech is mostly a theatrical process.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Are you good at formal logic?

i can't believe we're having to "defend" the concept of logic

on an INTP forum

 

[Old Things]

Are you good at formal logic?

i can't believe we're having to "defend" the concept of logic

on an INTP forum

It would be comical if it wasn't so pathetic.

 

[Black Rose]

logic cannot solve all problems, it can solve some but not all.

all problems that are SOLVABLE

can be solved with logic

yes, so not all problems just the solvable problems.

Blue and green, red and yellow are colors but no one knows logically why they feel a certain way. I do not logically know why strawberries have the taste they do, why the qualia is the way it is.

evolutionary advantage

How can you use logic to explain the qualia of yellow?

Where is the math formula for experiencing yellow in consciousness?

Are you good at formal logic?

i can't believe we're having to "defend" the concept of logic

on an INTP forum

It would be comical if it wasn't so pathetic.

no one is denying the "concept of logic".

the shit people do with logic is untenable.

This is pure theatrics.

free speech can be used for evil purposes.

it is not like society excuses bad behaviors, consequences exist.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

yes, so not all problems just the solvable problems.

bingo

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

How can you use logic to explain the qualia of yellow?

evolutionary advantage

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Where is the math formula for experiencing yellow in consciousness?

we're not talking about mathematics

 

[scorpiomover]

Are you good at formal logic?

i can't believe we're having to "defend" the concept of logic

I can't believe that we're arguing over what logic means.

Actually, I can. I've had this same argument multiple times.

It seems that what most people used to call "logic" isn't what people call "logic" anymore, just as what most people used to call "an atheist" isn't what people call "an atheist" anymore, and just as what most people used to call "a vaccine" isn't what people call "a vaccine" anymore.

Welcome to NewSpeak.

on an INTP forum

Not everyone on this site is an INTP.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

the shit people do with logic is untenable.

the shit people do with automobiles is untenable

the shit people do with refrigerators is untenable

the shit people do with concrete is untenable

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

It seems that what most people used to call "logic" isn't what people call "logic" anymore, just as what most people used to call "an atheist" isn't what people call "an atheist" anymore, and just as what most people used to call "a vaccine" isn't what people call "a vaccine" anymore.

well stated

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Not everyone on this site is an INTP.

clearly

 

[Black Rose]

How can you use logic to explain the qualia of yellow?

evolutionary advantage

Where is the math formula for experiencing yellow in consciousness?

we're not talking about mathematics

that is what yellow does but what is yellow precisely?

why is yellow not red or green?

the shit people do with logic is untenable.

the shit people do with automobiles is untenable

the shit people do with refrigerators is untenable

the shit people do with concrete is untenable

yes, people can do bad things with logic.

 

[scorpiomover]

free speech can be used for evil purposes.

Why not all free speech is good.

it is not like society excuses bad behaviors, consequences exist.

Really? Then where were all the trials of all the Nazi scientists who went to the USA?

Where were all the trials of all the Nazis who went to South America?

 

[EndogenousRebel]

Are you good at formal logic?

i can't believe we're having to "defend" the concept of logic

on an INTP forum

It would be comical if it wasn't so pathetic.

Oh please, as if you sodomizing yourselves with the nobel cause of defending the one true logic you can comprehend isn't its own psychoanalytical gold mine.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

Why?

• Are you good at formal logic? If so, then why are you trying to claim that all of the people who didn't finish high school are so much better at everything than you?
• Are you bad at formal logic? Then how would you know if formal logic has flaws in it?

Irrelevant. I wrote the logic down in the forum. I'm happy to restate it again.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

that is what yellow does but what is yellow precisely?

why is yellow not red or green?

The range of wavelengths commonly described as "yellow" is approximately 570 to 590 nanometers.

The range of wavelengths commonly described as "red" is approximately 620-750 nanometers.

The range of wavelengths commonly described as "green" is approximately 495 to 570 nanometers.

The evolutionary advantage of being able to distinguish between "yellow", "red", and "green" is the ability to identify ripe fruits and flowers, which can serve as a valuable food source and or attract potential mates (everyone likes food).

 

[Black Rose]

free speech can be used for evil purposes.

Why not all free speech is good.

if all speech was good then maybe I am wrong.

is all speech good?

it is not like society excuses bad behaviors, consequences exist.

Really? Then where were all the trials of all the Nazi scientists who went to the USA?

Where were all the trials of all the Nazis who went to South America?

if logic could solve this maybe things would be different.

can logic make things like this not happen?

 

[Black Rose]

that is what yellow does but what is yellow precisely?

why is yellow not red or green?

The range of wavelengths commonly described as "yellow" is approximately 570 to 590 nanometers.

The range of wavelengths commonly described as "red" is approximately 620-750 nanometers.

The range of wavelengths commonly described as "green" is approximately 495 to 570 nanometers.

The evolutionary advantage of being able to distinguish between "yellow", "red", and "green" is the ability to identify ripe fruits and flowers, which can serve as a valuable food source and or attract potential mates (everyone likes food).

ok, why does yellow feel like yellow and not feel like green?

where is the logic to the 'feeling' of yellow?

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Oh please, as if you sodomizing yourselves with the nobel cause of defending the one true logic you can comprehend isn't its own psychoanalytical gold mine.

perhaps we could clear this whole thing up if you were to present your own personally preferred definition of "logic"

 

[scorpiomover]

I wrote the logic down in the forum. I'm happy to restate it again.

Why? You refused to accept that your agument was not logical. Yet you claim that it's wrong. You didn't even use truth tables correctly.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Really? Then where were all the trials of all the Nazi scientists who went to the USA?

Where were all the trials of all the Nazis who went to South America?

social power dynamics

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

ok, why does yellow feel like yellow and not feel like green?

where is the logic to the 'feeling' of yellow?

Warning signals: Bright and vibrant colors in certain animals, such as poison dart frogs or venomous snakes, serve as a warning to potential predators that they are toxic or dangerous.

The evolutionary response to the color sky blue is increased alertness because a blue sky is a strong indication that it is daytime and not storming - generally considered an ideal time to either hunt or gather or farm or tend to your animals. Increased alertness (lack of sleepiness) in such a scenario is evolutionarily advantageous.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

can logic make things like this not happen?

logic is not a god you pray to

logic is simply a tool

 

[Black Rose]

ok, why does yellow feel like yellow and not feel like green?

where is the logic to the 'feeling' of yellow?

Warning signals: Bright and vibrant colors in certain animals, such as poison dart frogs or venomous snakes, serve as a warning to potential predators that they are toxic or dangerous.

The evolutionary response to the color sky blue is increased alertness because a blue sky is a strong indication that it is daytime and not storming - generally considered an ideal time to either hunt or gather or farm or tend to your animals. Increased alertness (lack of sleepiness) in such a scenario is evolutionarily advantageous.

can logic explain consciousness?

why do feelings exist instead of no feelings?

why are we not just unconscious robots?

Philosophical zombie - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Black Rose]

can logic make things like this not happen?

logic is not a god you pray to

logic is simply a tool

Then why are @scorpiomover and @EndogenousRebel in such disagreement?

Can we not simply state that logic and free speech are not always compatible?

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

why do feelings exist instead of no feelings?

feelings are physiological signals

evolved in an ancient context

and often maladapted to a modern environment

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Can we not simply state that logic and free speech are not always compatible?

no, no we can't say that

logic applies to the creation and coherence of ANY set of rules and the enforcement of those rules

"i trust the moderators"

is tantamount to saying "we don't have any rules"

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

can logic explain consciousness?

 

[Black Rose]

Can we not simply state that logic and free speech are not always compatible?

no, no we can't say that

logic applies to the creation and coherence of ANY set of rules and the enforcement of those rules

"i trust the moderators"

is tantamount to saying "we don't have any rules"

If only logic exists, then there can be no reason for me to believe no rules exist.

The rules include moderation so this means the moderator obeys some set of rules.

It is because I understand why those rules exist that I can obey them otherwise we would have no reason for a forum to exist, chaos is no reason for a forum to exist.

Why does this forum exist? because it was made to be according to some set of rules.