Lyra
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OK, it's on.
Dark Materials
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Lyra
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I just wanted to emphasise for the record what scum you all are. I'm writing this here 'cos somebody in particular is watching and piecing, but the soul that made INTPf what it once was is completely trampled under the ugly mundane stupidity that's caused so many to leave. Like I wrote would happen:
'It flourishes unseen; it lives inwardly screaming, impotent; it dies unsung.
Life unfolds on, crushing and relentless. And this sacred knowledge is trampled underfoot.
Its corpse, crushed to dust by blind fools, becomes a new beginning. Merges again with unformed raw matter, for foolishness to be born from in the next turn of the cycle.
And for the mournful beauty of after, of wisdom, to continue arising from tentatively, to be crushed without mercy.
Onwards. Onwards. Onwards.
Life could solve itself, and its solution would be undone by onwards.
Murky waters; clearness is rare here. A being enters into it, and looks back upon the unseeing it was before. It knows. The tides change, clarity dies, engulfed in what is not it. Nothing is said of it; onwards.
Men see a goddess. They talk of her. They take her memory into their worlds, and spin world-made fables inspired by her image. She disperses. Into the world. She becomes what she never was. She is voiceless now, a pattern of this earth devoid of heaven; onwards.
Heaven was presenced on earth here; it sent dust flying, and now its avatar is the settling dust. There will only be earth soon; onwards.
Sorrow.'
'It flourishes unseen; it lives inwardly screaming, impotent; it dies unsung.
Life unfolds on, crushing and relentless. And this sacred knowledge is trampled underfoot.
Its corpse, crushed to dust by blind fools, becomes a new beginning. Merges again with unformed raw matter, for foolishness to be born from in the next turn of the cycle.
And for the mournful beauty of after, of wisdom, to continue arising from tentatively, to be crushed without mercy.
Onwards. Onwards. Onwards.
Life could solve itself, and its solution would be undone by onwards.
Murky waters; clearness is rare here. A being enters into it, and looks back upon the unseeing it was before. It knows. The tides change, clarity dies, engulfed in what is not it. Nothing is said of it; onwards.
Men see a goddess. They talk of her. They take her memory into their worlds, and spin world-made fables inspired by her image. She disperses. Into the world. She becomes what she never was. She is voiceless now, a pattern of this earth devoid of heaven; onwards.
Heaven was presenced on earth here; it sent dust flying, and now its avatar is the settling dust. There will only be earth soon; onwards.
Sorrow.'
Lyra
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Positions. Individualities. Opinions.
Weaving, thread over thread, into a fabric covering nature's blessed eyes.
A blindfold.
Black, not red.
Torn away. If it is blindness that must be endured, then the blindness of unthinking life beyond individuality shall be chosen.
Let life flow through and be birthed from, and let its blood merge with this blood, and let these eyes be doused in its viciousness. As above, so shall be below: heaven is predatory. This frenzied blindness shall be red, not black.
But not in this entanglement of words and word-hardened individuality; this fractal prison. Let us be you all, and deny nothing among you, and thereby escape the horror of being confined to one of your cells of personality.
Immersed. Belief, thought, position: lacerated.
Weaving, thread over thread, into a fabric covering nature's blessed eyes.
A blindfold.
Black, not red.
Torn away. If it is blindness that must be endured, then the blindness of unthinking life beyond individuality shall be chosen.
Let life flow through and be birthed from, and let its blood merge with this blood, and let these eyes be doused in its viciousness. As above, so shall be below: heaven is predatory. This frenzied blindness shall be red, not black.
But not in this entanglement of words and word-hardened individuality; this fractal prison. Let us be you all, and deny nothing among you, and thereby escape the horror of being confined to one of your cells of personality.
Immersed. Belief, thought, position: lacerated.
Lyra
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Lyra
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Lyra
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Sycophancy. Sycophancy is the quintessential characteristic of pretty much every human being I've ever met.
Belief. You all accept this world and these laws that you come into, and then in whatever form you render them just outflow the same patterns/energies/exigencies which were enforced upon you. You believe and you perpetuate, binding life into that patterning.
I've met perhaps 1, maybe 2, human beings who rejected belief. Who didn't kneel down before whatever cosmos they blindly stumbled their way into the midst of. Who truly sought gateways out, to know the code and how it could collapse in on itself, to become a guardian of and artist in that code. Perhaps whilst scorning that there was any code at all.
Belief. Goddamn fucking belief. Belief in hardness. In getting along. In school. In growing up. You're all traitors to the innocence and youth you barely knew even when you were meant to know it. All just more fodder for the tedium that is this way we order ourselves, globally, in consciousness, in all of the excuses and structures which as beds direct the river of our living.
Especially you fools who think you're misanthropes or who get the game or are hard headed existentialists/evolutionists or whatever-- fuck you. If you cared enough, if you weren't a cosmic brown noser, you'd have found the gateways out, you'd have gone further, you'd fight day and night like I did until you found it. @Auburn And you'd actually get it when you were around some being who made their life into an artwork extended across a canvas of months and years, collapsing in on itself at every stage to reveal the syntax beyond the disconnected fragments your idiocy perceived, just so that you might have a chance.
Sycophantic hypocritical scum to the last fucking man. Violating every virtue you claim to hold dear in the entire arc and structure of your owned, believing, simian lives. In every word and gesture perpetuating the arrogance of assuming and enforcing that other life forms work on the same vapid symbolic scale, with the same pathetic scale of planning born of the same degradation of sold-out spirit, that you do.
We could scream from the rooftops and you'd all just go along with the next sycophancy we engineered for you. You'd take whatever cues we gave you that this was where the prison-gang of time turned and chain-walked next. And you accuse people who work on such a scale of being manipulative, disingenuous. Only in so far as one has to be disingenuous to cut down their thoughts into a-b-c 1-2-3 simplicities a drug-wrecked retard can process.
Belief. You all accept this world and these laws that you come into, and then in whatever form you render them just outflow the same patterns/energies/exigencies which were enforced upon you. You believe and you perpetuate, binding life into that patterning.
I've met perhaps 1, maybe 2, human beings who rejected belief. Who didn't kneel down before whatever cosmos they blindly stumbled their way into the midst of. Who truly sought gateways out, to know the code and how it could collapse in on itself, to become a guardian of and artist in that code. Perhaps whilst scorning that there was any code at all.
Belief. Goddamn fucking belief. Belief in hardness. In getting along. In school. In growing up. You're all traitors to the innocence and youth you barely knew even when you were meant to know it. All just more fodder for the tedium that is this way we order ourselves, globally, in consciousness, in all of the excuses and structures which as beds direct the river of our living.
Especially you fools who think you're misanthropes or who get the game or are hard headed existentialists/evolutionists or whatever-- fuck you. If you cared enough, if you weren't a cosmic brown noser, you'd have found the gateways out, you'd have gone further, you'd fight day and night like I did until you found it. @Auburn And you'd actually get it when you were around some being who made their life into an artwork extended across a canvas of months and years, collapsing in on itself at every stage to reveal the syntax beyond the disconnected fragments your idiocy perceived, just so that you might have a chance.
Sycophantic hypocritical scum to the last fucking man. Violating every virtue you claim to hold dear in the entire arc and structure of your owned, believing, simian lives. In every word and gesture perpetuating the arrogance of assuming and enforcing that other life forms work on the same vapid symbolic scale, with the same pathetic scale of planning born of the same degradation of sold-out spirit, that you do.
We could scream from the rooftops and you'd all just go along with the next sycophancy we engineered for you. You'd take whatever cues we gave you that this was where the prison-gang of time turned and chain-walked next. And you accuse people who work on such a scale of being manipulative, disingenuous. Only in so far as one has to be disingenuous to cut down their thoughts into a-b-c 1-2-3 simplicities a drug-wrecked retard can process.
Lyra
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I find myself amidst, of, some less than credible chaos, some indominable fulness and immanence of unconstrained and inexplicable change. And amidst this, titan-histories, languages and hierarchies of human society that seem to me arbitrary and monstrous, but to which men apply themselves with the full force of belief, move like currents in an ocean of awe. My language forms this immensity into sentences and fragments, but I myself can find no such footing, no stablity or [ ] with which to miitgate this burning isness. I am chaos in chaos, some fleeting awareness blinded by sudden recognition of our hell-logiced light. And all I can find-- although it does not feel like a compromise-- is standing amidst and looking into the eye of another man or woman, another who sees and cannot unsee, who is burned and cannot pull away, but who is there, and in that moment, each of us to one another, the only truth.
Brother, sister, in you, in us, in honour, the world is true.
I know nothing else.
-December 2011
Brother, sister, in you, in us, in honour, the world is true.
I know nothing else.
-December 2011
Lyra
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In your eyes, in our touch, that all falls away. All becomes but a means of being us. This is our transcendence, this is our eternity, this is our religion: man to man, man to woman, woman to woman, life to life, let all else burn.
-December 2011
-December 2011
BigApplePi
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Assuming I am an INTP and you are an INFJ, I will keep my home base, thank you.
Some of what you present I experience as quite beautiful (Si), but if this is a temple I can't see the temptress herself dishonoring it.
There seems to be a failure to see the path from the crude to the sublime; from what you call the stupid to the enlightened. I would like to think there is one. I'm sure there is one ... if only with the right guide. Everyone here can be given the chance to guide. There is no shame in failure.
No one is inferior for any group of superiors (on some self-presumed scale) has to have some at the bottom and the one presumed at the top is seriously flawed.
Let the beauty move us. If there is something else, let it be.
Prospective poems or prose:
1. Reason. I am not a whore.
2. Men are not meant to be women. Who said they were?
3. What is a woman ... a man's view.
4. What do I gain by role play?
A reasonable woman need not reply to this message ... and who's calling whom, "profane"?
Lyra
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I saw this quote on some random blog by some random person, I forget where:
'The ............... is always the minority, the nail that stands up amid a field of rusted steel. Like Sun to Shadow.
Anything beautiful, austere, authentic is always and immediately swarmed by the throng of profane hands seeking to dominate and discard to prevent having to suffer the weight of performing any actual work toward change, gnosis, or empathic connexion. It is easier to swim in the wake of the strong swimmers, and what is easier, is always common.'
'The ............... is always the minority, the nail that stands up amid a field of rusted steel. Like Sun to Shadow.
Anything beautiful, austere, authentic is always and immediately swarmed by the throng of profane hands seeking to dominate and discard to prevent having to suffer the weight of performing any actual work toward change, gnosis, or empathic connexion. It is easier to swim in the wake of the strong swimmers, and what is easier, is always common.'
Lyra
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Whatever. You're just demonstrating what I'm saying for me, which makes for an interesting parable. A living teaching story for a few rare eyes. I'm not interested in engaging with you, though.
The person who used to indulge you through this name is gone.
1 point: I've spent a lot of time trying to guide the lazy, cowardly, corrupt and idiotic. It's not worth it unless they have a burning transformative desire already kindled within their own heart. Better to build with those fringe elements already inclined, and to strategise in accordance with what can maintain that. Most of what I do is just a hook/sell game/test to draw those elements in and then direct them into fast-tracks obscured from other eyes.
Lyra
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Why I'm a Creationist Pod'Lair Islamic Nazi from Hell
Blossoms fracture, petals pulled by time's war
on all known hearts, on all who've walked its shores
To be heard and then-- and then sent out, drowned
Scattered by deaf winds-- who turn back, to sound
Some new battle cry, some new answer to...
Because there is no question, none heard.
And the traitors', the forgetfuls' new word--
Whatever winds will beat across peopled lands
Whatever will play into [ ]'s demands
And the whores will give themselves for this new price.
And the lowly men will bow and pay its tithes
And it will always have been this way, real
And the lives lost out at sea... they cannot feel
And unspoken, betray by some new name.
Blossoms fracture, petals pulled by time's war
on all known hearts, on all who've walked its shores
To be heard and then-- and then sent out, drowned
Scattered by deaf winds-- who turn back, to sound
Some new battle cry, some new answer to...
Because there is no question, none heard.
And the traitors', the forgetfuls' new word--
Whatever winds will beat across peopled lands
Whatever will play into [ ]'s demands
And the whores will give themselves for this new price.
And the lowly men will bow and pay its tithes
And it will always have been this way, real
And the lives lost out at sea... they cannot feel
And unspoken, betray by some new name.
Lyra
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Spengled
In most of this world's time animals played
Unfurled silent as flowers, 'till shocks' blade flayed
off their untroubled heads, to float on winds
lily-calm, then youth's vigours, unspoiled by sins
But when we look upon the natural way
We see struggle, strife and brute fate's harsh play
A suitor who courts all and graces few
With struggle's continuance: winning through
Really our Western heart knows too well some secret pain
Done it by life, so life it can't refrain
From singing what's been sung with its men as notes
The cruel operatic fate play that it repeats by rote
But this epic-- this great answer to great sorrow
It wasn't here before, and won't be tomorrow
Life-patterns came and went, and didn't care
To choreograph, by though, our strange nightmare
Men have sung it elsewhere-- somehow in us it learned to scream
Somehow we sleepwalked further into this self-fed dream
In us civilisation, that child of fear and terror
Took thought-- the second son-- and bled him for every error
But error is the seed, of our colossus
And blood his thirsted water, he demands of us
Pain is what drives men to strive on-- higher
The west's pain was so great it made the world this mire
Now every notion, every thought
Is by strife and watching, infinite error-wrought
Darwin knew the patterns, he just missed the feel
of play, when those [ ], he cut to make real
In most of this world's time animals played
Unfurled silent as flowers, 'till shocks' blade flayed
off their untroubled heads, to float on winds
lily-calm, then youth's vigours, unspoiled by sins
But when we look upon the natural way
We see struggle, strife and brute fate's harsh play
A suitor who courts all and graces few
With struggle's continuance: winning through
Really our Western heart knows too well some secret pain
Done it by life, so life it can't refrain
From singing what's been sung with its men as notes
The cruel operatic fate play that it repeats by rote
But this epic-- this great answer to great sorrow
It wasn't here before, and won't be tomorrow
Life-patterns came and went, and didn't care
To choreograph, by though, our strange nightmare
Men have sung it elsewhere-- somehow in us it learned to scream
Somehow we sleepwalked further into this self-fed dream
In us civilisation, that child of fear and terror
Took thought-- the second son-- and bled him for every error
But error is the seed, of our colossus
And blood his thirsted water, he demands of us
Pain is what drives men to strive on-- higher
The west's pain was so great it made the world this mire
Now every notion, every thought
Is by strife and watching, infinite error-wrought
Darwin knew the patterns, he just missed the feel
of play, when those [ ], he cut to make real
Lyra
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And now some public education from my personal hero, Zai'nyy McKenna...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3Xca_aFTEo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3Xca_aFTEo
kantor1003
Prolific Member
"Belief. Goddamn fucking belief. Belief in hardness. In getting along. In school. In growing up. You're all traitors to the innocence and youth you barely knew even when you were meant to know it."
//"Actually, it would even be a good idea to treat my post archive like the old Chinese treated Confucius. Instead of ever writing anything new, just find the quote that fits the context and allow the corrective influence to gradually reform and refine the proletarian sludge of your being."//
//"Actually, it would even be a good idea to treat my post archive like the old Chinese treated Confucius. Instead of ever writing anything new, just find the quote that fits the context and allow the corrective influence to gradually reform and refine the proletarian sludge of your being."//
Lyra
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Lyra
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Are you implying a contradiction?
kantor1003
Prolific Member
Why should I? "reason is a whore"
Lyra
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Lyra
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Aha.
Well, I actually quite like your input, so play that game if you'd like, but fee free to play along in other ways...
Lyra
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Perhaps most importantly of all...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAFVtd8NMHw
...in this thread or any other. If you have anything to you you'll follow this lead and exit up and out from this fallen world of sin and delusion. There are other exits, but this is the fastest and surest, available to anyone. If you're not interested I'm not interested in you, and stay away from me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAFVtd8NMHw
...in this thread or any other. If you have anything to you you'll follow this lead and exit up and out from this fallen world of sin and delusion. There are other exits, but this is the fastest and surest, available to anyone. If you're not interested I'm not interested in you, and stay away from me.
Duxwing
I've Overcome Existential Despair
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kantor1003
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Thank you for your invitation
Lyra
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'Esoterically, alchemy is not a precursor to chemistry, nor is it concerned primarily with the development of other metals into gold. It is, simply, the art of recognising what potential for increased potency and brilliance there is in any living system, understanding via experience how that potential is limited or constrained, and then experimentally and practically implementing that understanding on any scale.
Thus, internal alchemy is concerned with developing the alchemist to and beyond his current limits. External alchemy concerns other beings and life than the practitioner, although must, really, be done hand in hand with the insights which internal alchemy yields. Aeonic alchemy, which encompasses and is a far greater endeavour than both internal and external alchemy, is alchemy applied on a millennial and societal scale.
Given what alchemy's aim is, it, by its very nature, involves relationships and modes of being and understandings which are not conceivable or understandable in terms of the contemporary norms of the alchemists' society. Paracelsus, father of modern medicine and a great thinker in many respects... was also the father of most of the common alchemical symbolism used today, in addition to much of the symbolism etc. which influenced Jung, who was also (very) interested in alchemy. Many of Paracelsus' more obvious and empirical insights have been incorporated into the cannon of western knowledge-- but his more intangible, internal, and obscure alchemical insights tend to be swept away under the rug of 'alchemy was a primitive chemistry'.
It really wasn't. It had a totally different aim-- and, of course, always utilises the knowledge of its time in service of that aim's achievement. Thus, what is today mistaken for historical 'alchemy' was actually one system of methods employed towards an end which... prevails, and has not been 'refuted' or 'superseded'. This exoteric rejection is to be expected, though; genuine alchemy is, after all, esoteric.
The attempt to turn metals into Gold was partly used as a symbolism for the transformation of the individual, and was partly a genuine attempt to discover and implement the inherent potency for transformation of external substances. Metals were widely regarded as evolving, very slowly, through a natural life cycle, from base substance towards refined gold; thus, in accordance with its aims, the removal of inhibiting factors to metals' development and thus the acceleration of the process was at times, and to some, an alchemical aim.
Ultimately, though, the alchemist's most vital tool is life, and its dynamic potency. Opinion and doctrine are irrelevant, except in so far as they aid a particular alchemical being (whether individual or otherwise) in their discovery, via experience and reflection, of that tool's potential and manifest nature.'
-2010, with a co-author. Mostly in agreement although I'd state some things differently presently.
Thus, internal alchemy is concerned with developing the alchemist to and beyond his current limits. External alchemy concerns other beings and life than the practitioner, although must, really, be done hand in hand with the insights which internal alchemy yields. Aeonic alchemy, which encompasses and is a far greater endeavour than both internal and external alchemy, is alchemy applied on a millennial and societal scale.
Given what alchemy's aim is, it, by its very nature, involves relationships and modes of being and understandings which are not conceivable or understandable in terms of the contemporary norms of the alchemists' society. Paracelsus, father of modern medicine and a great thinker in many respects... was also the father of most of the common alchemical symbolism used today, in addition to much of the symbolism etc. which influenced Jung, who was also (very) interested in alchemy. Many of Paracelsus' more obvious and empirical insights have been incorporated into the cannon of western knowledge-- but his more intangible, internal, and obscure alchemical insights tend to be swept away under the rug of 'alchemy was a primitive chemistry'.
It really wasn't. It had a totally different aim-- and, of course, always utilises the knowledge of its time in service of that aim's achievement. Thus, what is today mistaken for historical 'alchemy' was actually one system of methods employed towards an end which... prevails, and has not been 'refuted' or 'superseded'. This exoteric rejection is to be expected, though; genuine alchemy is, after all, esoteric.
The attempt to turn metals into Gold was partly used as a symbolism for the transformation of the individual, and was partly a genuine attempt to discover and implement the inherent potency for transformation of external substances. Metals were widely regarded as evolving, very slowly, through a natural life cycle, from base substance towards refined gold; thus, in accordance with its aims, the removal of inhibiting factors to metals' development and thus the acceleration of the process was at times, and to some, an alchemical aim.
Ultimately, though, the alchemist's most vital tool is life, and its dynamic potency. Opinion and doctrine are irrelevant, except in so far as they aid a particular alchemical being (whether individual or otherwise) in their discovery, via experience and reflection, of that tool's potential and manifest nature.'
-2010, with a co-author. Mostly in agreement although I'd state some things differently presently.
Duxwing
I've Overcome Existential Despair
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Essentially, he advocates the use of dimethyltriptamine to achieve uplifting spiritual experiences that he claims to reveal a supernatural world. It's certainly an interesting hypothesis, but can he reproduce his results? Can he bring one of the fairies back from "fairy-land," as he puts it, and measure it in some way, and then repeat what he did before to call it back again? The idea is great, but we need more data to confirm it; we've already seen what going on private revelation has done to our planet, let's see if science can do better.
As for not wishing to associate with those who do not agree with your notions, I disagree with your wish, but do humbly respect it. I hope that we do become friends one day, even if we differ in our philosophical perspectives.
-Duxwing
Lyra
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Lyra
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Essentially, he advocates the use of dimethyltriptamine to achieve uplifting spiritual experiences that he claims to reveal a supernatural world. It's certainly an interesting hypothesis, but can he reproduce his results? Can he bring one of the fairies back from "fairy-land," as he puts it, and measure it in some way, and then repeat what he did before to call it back again? The idea is great, but we need more data to confirm it; we've already seen what going on private revelation has done to our planet, let's see if science can do better.
As for not wishing to associate with those who do not agree with your notions, I disagree with your wish, but do humbly respect it. I hope that we do become friends one day, even if we differ in our philosophical perspectives.
-Duxwing
You don't get it at all. You think you're making sense but you just have no idea. All that you're expressing are divisions/symptoms of a species of consciousness which cannot be made aware of other species, and thereby its own fundamental basis and possibilities, except by experience. That is: you're making the error of assigning signifiers to the appearance/relation the nexus between you and what that leaves on you with no empathy for what the signified actually is or how the signifiers you're forming relate to it.
That experience can be consciously and rationally analysed and integrated, but the results cannot in many ways be communicated to those unaware of the fundamental context within which all of their systems of signification/designation/delineation are formed/particularised.
Additionally, research is illegal, and where actually pursued has revealed fairly astounding but only preliminary results. But not ones the governments of the world liked, so... clampdown.
Whatever. The point is that this attracts those who've finally gotten over their attachments to answers which clearly aren't working, forms which they in fundament have no basis for-- who have come to the essence of the issue and the problem and can, by means of that clarity, recognise the essence of a solution and what kinds of outputs gateways to it would emanate. If you're not in that place, you're not in that place. If you're not ready to go beyond, you're not ready, and your reasons will integrate the emanations/trails/cues of the beyond into the system of attachments and unspoken fundamentals (and assumptions which bind them) which prevent you from doing so.
EyeSeeCold
lust for life
Lyra
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Yeah... that thread was full of word-enamoured robots spewing their programming about things they have no real experience of, like most of this forum. Ease of assignation and designation, and mistaking that and what it manifests/instantiates for reason and understanding, is the primary barrier most modern people face to any genuine independence/depth/wisdom/awakening. Heidegger was right about that: there is a loss of awareness of being, and total hypnosis by culture.*
This is what McKenna means by the 'felt presence of direct experience'. To know a thing you often have to know it, be with it, flow with it. Reason is strengthened and refined through this de-coupling from unpsoken/binding affective/experiential contexts, and the integration of new ones. It actually purifies and becomes less experientially bounded by this process. Most moderns miss that entirely in their assumption that this equates to 'revelation' or a subjective cop-out, not realising it is their own subjectivity and its boundedness and nature/structure which is the only barrier to entering into this process, and that neither reflexion nor experience can really be properly placed or utilised or honed without an awareness of the dynamic relation they always and necessarily form to one another.
There is thus an almost ubiquitous confusion/conflation of reason/reflexion and the subjective conditions/boundednesses within which its practice is ostensibly sanctioned or normal in our culture. This leads to, involves, and manifests a total absence of reason or wisdom with regards to the fundamental, to being, to what reason is and isn't and how it can therefore be honed and developed beyond the confines of culturally sanctioned subjective/experiential contexts.
This also manifests, not incidentally, in people's attitude towards Pod'Lair. @Auburn and PHY was a blindingly obvious case study in that error. As is the insistence upon engagement in certain subjective/contexts rituals which are themselves blind to and suppressive of this mutuality (suppression of psychedelic research etc., easily the greatest crime/omission in scientific history). But I won't get further into that here.
Also note that the subjective='the spiritual' in this context. 'Spiritual' is just a placeholder-word that sleeping people use to designate the fundamental (and gateways to it/alterations in it), to which they are not awoken or free to play with/perceive as is. Every experience they have is inherently 'spiritual', but only in a bounded/robotised way. McKenna is describing a means for any with the necessary courage/desire to engage in a rational process of decoupling this imprisoning conflation.
He's also describing the best thing, the most amazing and beautiful and just beyond-every-dream-you-ever-had gift of an experience, in the entire world...
Thanks for linking the thread though, I guess some people might want to read it.
--
*Heidegger's narrativisation of this interestingly meshes with Spengler's in The Decline of the West, and I think they were both right.
**I'm conflating reason/designation to some extent in this post, for simplicity's sake. A proper cycling/mutual-purification of designation and affective context/experience/symbiosis can actually involve or lead to a reason transcendent of or integrative of both, and there are forms of order/cosmos in psychadelic realms which just cannot be designated about in this 4-dimensional prison-world.
This is what McKenna means by the 'felt presence of direct experience'. To know a thing you often have to know it, be with it, flow with it. Reason is strengthened and refined through this de-coupling from unpsoken/binding affective/experiential contexts, and the integration of new ones. It actually purifies and becomes less experientially bounded by this process. Most moderns miss that entirely in their assumption that this equates to 'revelation' or a subjective cop-out, not realising it is their own subjectivity and its boundedness and nature/structure which is the only barrier to entering into this process, and that neither reflexion nor experience can really be properly placed or utilised or honed without an awareness of the dynamic relation they always and necessarily form to one another.
There is thus an almost ubiquitous confusion/conflation of reason/reflexion and the subjective conditions/boundednesses within which its practice is ostensibly sanctioned or normal in our culture. This leads to, involves, and manifests a total absence of reason or wisdom with regards to the fundamental, to being, to what reason is and isn't and how it can therefore be honed and developed beyond the confines of culturally sanctioned subjective/experiential contexts.
This also manifests, not incidentally, in people's attitude towards Pod'Lair. @Auburn and PHY was a blindingly obvious case study in that error. As is the insistence upon engagement in certain subjective/contexts rituals which are themselves blind to and suppressive of this mutuality (suppression of psychedelic research etc., easily the greatest crime/omission in scientific history). But I won't get further into that here.
Also note that the subjective='the spiritual' in this context. 'Spiritual' is just a placeholder-word that sleeping people use to designate the fundamental (and gateways to it/alterations in it), to which they are not awoken or free to play with/perceive as is. Every experience they have is inherently 'spiritual', but only in a bounded/robotised way. McKenna is describing a means for any with the necessary courage/desire to engage in a rational process of decoupling this imprisoning conflation.
He's also describing the best thing, the most amazing and beautiful and just beyond-every-dream-you-ever-had gift of an experience, in the entire world...
Thanks for linking the thread though, I guess some people might want to read it.
--
*Heidegger's narrativisation of this interestingly meshes with Spengler's in The Decline of the West, and I think they were both right.
**I'm conflating reason/designation to some extent in this post, for simplicity's sake. A proper cycling/mutual-purification of designation and affective context/experience/symbiosis can actually involve or lead to a reason transcendent of or integrative of both, and there are forms of order/cosmos in psychadelic realms which just cannot be designated about in this 4-dimensional prison-world.
BigApplePi
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I recall a chapter in Karen's Horney's Neurosis and Human Growth. I think it was called, "Alienation from the Self." This is close to what this guy is getting at here. Experimentation to get away from ongoing indoctrinations we sense to be not us. We search to find ourselves. What is us, what we want, who we are and what we are not.
Lyra
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Not in an identity-bound sense. Only in so far as 'us' is not 'us'. But in terms of indoctrination and what we actually are, yes. Most get lost in identity, though, as I've used this forum to demonstrate, with almost 0 recognition of what was occurring from the supposedly 'rational' and 'independent' and 'intelligent' and 'objective' hypocrites who populate it.
Which is, again, precisely the point. They engaged with what they mistook for reason within a limited context of recognised-as-meaningful designation, and were and continue to be totally and irredeemably gullible with regards to engineering of that context to elicit anticipated patterns of reactive designation. If they had some awareness of the ground of being, the affective assumptions which bind and rule what they mistake for reason, they might see the patterns/songs being sung beyond this, they might be able to engage with being/s and not designation/s. They might be able to respond to explicit indications that the affective/subjective/underlying context was being manipulated or communicated in terms of.
But they're stupid. So they don't. For the same reasons they're too stupid to see Pod'Lair. They've forgotten the essence of heroism and become enamoured with some appearance that their gullibility and weakness in the face of this world has allowed them to become jaded and degraded into accepting.
Honestly, temporal/designative gullibility and immoral cowardice is an infinite resource in modern humans. If there's one lesson I've learned from the events and betrayals and traumas of my time amongst and with and over and under them... it's that. It is ubiquitous in society and individuality and... everywhere... the great haze... the sleep-spell.
Which is, again, precisely the point. They engaged with what they mistook for reason within a limited context of recognised-as-meaningful designation, and were and continue to be totally and irredeemably gullible with regards to engineering of that context to elicit anticipated patterns of reactive designation. If they had some awareness of the ground of being, the affective assumptions which bind and rule what they mistake for reason, they might see the patterns/songs being sung beyond this, they might be able to engage with being/s and not designation/s. They might be able to respond to explicit indications that the affective/subjective/underlying context was being manipulated or communicated in terms of.
But they're stupid. So they don't. For the same reasons they're too stupid to see Pod'Lair. They've forgotten the essence of heroism and become enamoured with some appearance that their gullibility and weakness in the face of this world has allowed them to become jaded and degraded into accepting.
Honestly, temporal/designative gullibility and immoral cowardice is an infinite resource in modern humans. If there's one lesson I've learned from the events and betrayals and traumas of my time amongst and with and over and under them... it's that. It is ubiquitous in society and individuality and... everywhere... the great haze... the sleep-spell.
Lyra
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaA7yzHh2as&feature=related
Spengler was a genius, and right. But he was also very wrong/missed a lot that P'L corrects or informs upon. Including most of the relations/totality of the psychic configuration of the human tribe. His whole history has a heavy emphasis on the currents running through and out from the Nai'alpha contingent of cultures/civilisations*, and he confuses the prime symbols of cultures/civiliations because of not recognising this. All of those inspired by him until now have made similar errors.
That said, he traced patterns that were there and his predictive power was immense. The entire current situation he predicted pretty much to the letter, back before the second world war. One of the greatest thinkers the world has ever known. How P'L informs upon/corrects his work was to me one of the early signs of just how immense a discovery it is.
We are currently in the West's late Autumn phase. Interestingly, Spengler actually predicted that the 'final' flourishing and culmination of a certain kind of knowledge in Western thought would be 'physiognomic'.
Please note that the last section of the above video contains nationalist/racialist memes that aren't at all inherent to the patterns Spengler was tracing, and that I don't buy into. Later in his career he bought into some of these, and people of that kind have used his genius to bolster their prejudices, but that doesn't mean anything for whether or not the cyclical pattern itself is there or not and true or not.
--
*Toynbee mistakenly calls this contingent the 'creative minority'.
Spengler was a genius, and right. But he was also very wrong/missed a lot that P'L corrects or informs upon. Including most of the relations/totality of the psychic configuration of the human tribe. His whole history has a heavy emphasis on the currents running through and out from the Nai'alpha contingent of cultures/civilisations*, and he confuses the prime symbols of cultures/civiliations because of not recognising this. All of those inspired by him until now have made similar errors.
That said, he traced patterns that were there and his predictive power was immense. The entire current situation he predicted pretty much to the letter, back before the second world war. One of the greatest thinkers the world has ever known. How P'L informs upon/corrects his work was to me one of the early signs of just how immense a discovery it is.
We are currently in the West's late Autumn phase. Interestingly, Spengler actually predicted that the 'final' flourishing and culmination of a certain kind of knowledge in Western thought would be 'physiognomic'.
Please note that the last section of the above video contains nationalist/racialist memes that aren't at all inherent to the patterns Spengler was tracing, and that I don't buy into. Later in his career he bought into some of these, and people of that kind have used his genius to bolster their prejudices, but that doesn't mean anything for whether or not the cyclical pattern itself is there or not and true or not.
--
*Toynbee mistakenly calls this contingent the 'creative minority'.
Lyra
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Imperium: The Crisis of Being
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uha7WWgoeX4Note
Note again that nationalistic/political slants are irrelevant to the phenomenon itself. This is a useful/well produced introduction, though, and will explain to most people the structure of civilisation in a way far beyond anything they've been presented with before.
Note just what this means on an individual scale. Whole lives manifest these cycles totally credulously and blindly. @Cognisant is an example of somebody totally mentally dominated by the 'Nihilism and Chaos' phase mentioned in the video, with no idea what led him there or what pattern that obsession forms but one stage in the panorama of.
Given that kind of a life, it's understandable that Cog's unable to distinguish himself from a robot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uha7WWgoeX4Note
Note again that nationalistic/political slants are irrelevant to the phenomenon itself. This is a useful/well produced introduction, though, and will explain to most people the structure of civilisation in a way far beyond anything they've been presented with before.
Note just what this means on an individual scale. Whole lives manifest these cycles totally credulously and blindly. @Cognisant is an example of somebody totally mentally dominated by the 'Nihilism and Chaos' phase mentioned in the video, with no idea what led him there or what pattern that obsession forms but one stage in the panorama of.
Given that kind of a life, it's understandable that Cog's unable to distinguish himself from a robot.
Lyra
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For McKenna, these 'separate' entities would inherently be one teleological process of egression from history into transcendentality, operating via or through or intertwined with these particular life-cycles.
I do think that Spengler over-emphasised his distinctions in seeking to make his point. His distinctions between civilisations, and his emphasis on the difference between phases, and a number of other aspects. The cognitive configuration phenomenon, for example, can be seen to operate ubiquitously through the cycles, although in an affective relationship with them. The same applies in many different fields. Regardless, he was right and the idiot academics who nitpicked his work were wrong and displayed 0 predictive power by comparison, enthralled with Marxist and other designatively-enthralled/blind theories as they were.
I do think that Spengler over-emphasised his distinctions in seeking to make his point. His distinctions between civilisations, and his emphasis on the difference between phases, and a number of other aspects. The cognitive configuration phenomenon, for example, can be seen to operate ubiquitously through the cycles, although in an affective relationship with them. The same applies in many different fields. Regardless, he was right and the idiot academics who nitpicked his work were wrong and displayed 0 predictive power by comparison, enthralled with Marxist and other designatively-enthralled/blind theories as they were.
axemblack
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"However, the "notes" of this paradoxalist do not end here. He could not help himself and went on. But it also seems to us that this may be a good place to stop."
Just so that this thread has a piece of literature in it.
Just so that this thread has a piece of literature in it.
Puffy
"Wtf even was that"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusing_Ourselves_to_Death
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Society_of_the_Spectacle
also seem to relate to the theme of the spread of inanity and inauthenticity. On this forum, in particular, I find it curious that the apparent decline of quality noted by others goes alongside the proliferation of internet memes and such. Perhaps it's not coincidental that some users recently banned (for low quality of posts) were those that used them the most. I somewhat suspect, like Postman, that the mediums we express ourselves through shape their content to some extent. Television. Advertising. Memes. Fundamentally inane and entertainment driven, fine in itself (I use such too), but poisonous when it becomes the air we breathe. A spread of irrelevent information paralyses action, which alienates being.
I remember thinking about Heidegger once as I was sitting in a kebab place waiting for a burger and chips. I was suddenly overcome by a feeling of rediculousness, like the thought did not belong to the environment, as if he had turned up to a kid's party in a clown costume. I think the above image tagged to the paragraph above replicates a similar effect.
Lyra
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Seriously, just what impels you to act like such a worthless piece of shit? Why would you post that in a thread where another being was expressing new ideas/poems/connections creatively? I clicked on your post archive and you don't even have the excuse of being a through-and-through moron like Pjoa9. Sincerely, please go hang yourself.
Edit: seriously fuck you. I just came here to post new things I'd written for this thread and I have to look at that. What is with you people trying to trample over anything new or that you don't understand or immediately resonate with? You are so incredibly scummy. You're like a parody-cliche of the untermensch, it's ridiculous.
Lyra
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People fold. The proclaimed is betrayed. The endless dance of image and form and circumstance eventually provides everyone with a palatable path to the failure of vision. Some step might even seem numinous or like a truer form of wisdom than the hard and unrewarding striving of knowing, holding to and knowing beyond all doubt, the truth of the visions in your heart. The true degree of ugliness and failure of potential in this race. The truly better beauty or vision or purity of conception hidden in the heart which people protect from exposure to it.
This forum-- and, again, I'm only posting here because threads were woven back when it wasn't so filled with scum, that continue latent and affective today, loosely tied to this site by habit and memory-- is an example of somewhere where most folded and became brown-nosers to what broke them early on. Where most are reverent before the destruction and denial of vision, before an empty and unfounded materialistic misanthropy, where the tepid and the fruitless and the easily seemingly clever and belittling is rewarded over the unbounded because it is a cowardice that most members have already contorted their beings around accepting. Respect seems amongst many to be attributed in direct proportion to how far and how assuredly this process of degeneration has progressed.
Some only fold, or seem to fold or proclaim and advocate folding, in the latter decades of their life. Denying vision as abstraction (which is itself a designative/abstract betrayal of what was before a living unfolding, with its eyes set on some true star), or seeming to to those receptive. Some keep elements of both throughout, never really having the courage to step up and just burn their way through this ugly world of degenerating liars and cowards. Rotting, lessening, becoming more and more compromised with the passage of time.
But every victory of vision, of numinosity-- every form that takes-- seems eventually to be betrayed. It's as though that were the one test, the one principle, of this life. Do you remember what it means to be a hero? The one question asked in myriad forms, the one riddle that you give an answer to whether you want to or not...
1 moment. Going to go find a quote where I elaborated this thought more clearly.
This forum-- and, again, I'm only posting here because threads were woven back when it wasn't so filled with scum, that continue latent and affective today, loosely tied to this site by habit and memory-- is an example of somewhere where most folded and became brown-nosers to what broke them early on. Where most are reverent before the destruction and denial of vision, before an empty and unfounded materialistic misanthropy, where the tepid and the fruitless and the easily seemingly clever and belittling is rewarded over the unbounded because it is a cowardice that most members have already contorted their beings around accepting. Respect seems amongst many to be attributed in direct proportion to how far and how assuredly this process of degeneration has progressed.
Some only fold, or seem to fold or proclaim and advocate folding, in the latter decades of their life. Denying vision as abstraction (which is itself a designative/abstract betrayal of what was before a living unfolding, with its eyes set on some true star), or seeming to to those receptive. Some keep elements of both throughout, never really having the courage to step up and just burn their way through this ugly world of degenerating liars and cowards. Rotting, lessening, becoming more and more compromised with the passage of time.
But every victory of vision, of numinosity-- every form that takes-- seems eventually to be betrayed. It's as though that were the one test, the one principle, of this life. Do you remember what it means to be a hero? The one question asked in myriad forms, the one riddle that you give an answer to whether you want to or not...
1 moment. Going to go find a quote where I elaborated this thought more clearly.
BigApplePi
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In a nutshell: societies and all things - birth, growth, decline, death.