Conspiracy Theorists

[Omnisu]

Do you hate them? Not Conspiracy Theories; some of them are quite clever. Conspiracy Theorists.

Is my hate for them part if the INTPness or does the INTPness merely give me the tools to pick apart their theories and expose the holes left by their stupidity?

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Do you hate them? Not Conspiracy Theories; some of them are quite clever. Conspiracy Theorists.

Is my hate for them part if the INTPness or does the INTPness merely give me the tools to pick apart their theories and expose the holes left by their stupidity?

Since INTPs tend to be far more logical in their thinking than most, we find picking apart conspiracy theories to be either quite fun or a complete waste of time. I am of the former but one thing I and anyone like me would need, is to know going in the the theorists themselves do NOT think things through in a logical manner. Therefore they refuse to see your logic if you choose to debate them. That can be frustrating as hell.

Possible solution: Don't engage the theorists themselves. Rather, engage anyone the theorists are trying to 'convert' as it were. If you choose to engage a theorist, prepare your skull for this:

 

[echoplex]

I read somewhere that the 'Illuminati' is responsible for society's obsession with sex. I had to read it twice for the extra laughs.

I think conspiracy theories exist because of humanity's desperation to understand things combined with a lack of sufficient information. Often, the necessary information is impossible to gather, but the curiosity is still there and there are always people who will view you as charismatic and smart if you act like you know the "real" truth that no one else knows (of course they don't know!).

I think we hate them because it comes off as intellectual blackmail. It's like "if you want to be really smart, you have to believe this. Otherwise, you're just another blind dummy believing all the lies! Lies!"

"So you see why I'm correct, right? My 'logic' is flawless!"

You gotta love logic. It's a nice word.

 

[Ulysses]

Also, water is bad for us.

 

[Thaklaar]

Also, water is bad for us.

Man, you just reminded me of my favoritest page in the whole world.

 

[Hawkeye]

Also, water is bad for us.

Indeed, if you drink enough you trigger a reversed osmossis effect. You die.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

"So you see why I'm correct, right? My 'logic' is flawless!"
You gotta love logic. It's a nice word.

*sigh* It's a pity most people don't actually know what logic is.

If somebody uses logic to make a point that point cannot be disprove without first disproving one of the proven facts it was derived from. In the absence of proven facts the person whom thinks themself being logical is actually using fuzzy logic!

Gahhrgh, this should be taught in schools and tested for every year.
People who fail will be executed as an example for the others.
Those that recognise that this post lacks proper logic will be cloned.

 

[Omnisu]

The problem is rarely with their logic, but instead with the assumptions they derive their argument from. Assumptions about motivation, capabilities, and science.

My favorite example : The same people who say Bush orchestrated 9/11, also say that Bush is a moron. So which is it. Is he a brilliant conspirator, or a moronic by stander?

 

[Hawkeye]

The problem is rarely with their logic, but instead with the assumptions they derive their argument from. Assumptions about motivation, capabilities, and science.

My favorite example : The same people who say Bush orchestrated 9/11, also say that Bush is a moron. So which is it. Is he a brilliant conspirator, or a moronic by stander?

I'd say the latter judging on the amount of embarrassing 'Bushisms'. He was merely a puppet. (in that conspiracy theory ^^)

 

[Ghost1986]

some are interesting depending on what the deal with. some are just plain stupid.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

I think conspiracy theorists get a rush from controversial, baseless theories, kind of like some get from fundamentalist religions. I know people from both groups, and I see a similar gleam in their eyes, hear the same catch in your throat. Well, I guess the groups often overlap... It just cracks me up when certain c.t.s poke fun at religious types for believing something ridiculous, and then they'll ramble on and on about the U.S. Treasury Department controlling what our kids learn in school or the food industry or whatever.

 

[DissonantShadow]

Shhh.... don't "talk" about it here... they're listening.

 

[Venture]

Shhh.... don't "talk" about it here... they're listening.

Hello, welcome DissonantShadow. I suggest you try not to make suspicious posts, while you are you new.
Or indierct posts it should be.


(Mando7089)

 

[Haruhi]

I prefer to address this on the basis of the validity of the individual theory and the inductions I can make regarding its originator's motivations. To simply dismiss ''conspiracy theorists'' could lead to not recognising data or interpretations which might beneficially add to our own understanding.

If ''conspiracy theory'' is a label used for all alternate history etc., then the possibility of discovering aspects of history (or the current situation) which aid our understanding but ostensibly conflict with the most prevalent set of narrative explanations is reduced.

All in all, I think that pejorative use of the label ''conspiracy theory'' is an easy way to give away your responsibility to think for yourself and evaluate the evidence on its own merits. Of course, the vast majority who could traditionally be classed as ''conspiracy theorists'' are generally illogical, paranoid, or insane, but that doesn't mean that the same applies to anybody who could be termed a ''conspiracy theorist''. There is great danger, and a great threat to intellectual integrity, in creating a category and then attributing the traits of some who you subjectively place in that category to everybody who you subjectively place in it.

 

[Thaklaar]

Hello, welcome DissonantShadow. I suggest you try not to make suspicious posts, while you are you new.

(Mando7089)

Come on, that wasn't suspicious, that was witty. And possibly good advice.

fnord

 

[Haruhi]

You have no right to the use of fnord.
You are entirely unworthy of it, and it contradicts everything that I have seen of your safe little nature.

 

[Venture]

Come on, that wasn't suspicious, that was witty. And possibly good advice.

fnord

Yes, I couldn't think of the right word.

To me DissonantShadow seems very XIIIish to me.

But he is not XIII THAT IS THE TRUTH!!!!!!

 

[quitejaded]

Uhm... I'm new to this forum. And I am noticing a lot of trends of HATRED here...

Is... that normal?

Because I totally thought it was just me. HAHA!

 

[Haruhi]

Yes, I couldn't think of the right word.

To me DissonantShadow seems very XIIIish to me.

I think QuiteJaded is XIII, actually.

 

[quitejaded]

Er?

 

[Thaklaar]

Uhm... I'm new to this forum. And I am noticing a lot of trends of HATRED here...

Is... that normal?

Because I totally thought it was just me. HAHA!

It's not normal. Recent events have some forum members on edge. Just...try to ignore it as much as possible.

 

[DissonantShadow]

I like to examine many of the "theories" that people will call "conspiracy." Interestingly, it seems that "we" have been conditioned to automatically assume that anything which falls under the category of "conspiracy" must be false.

What are some of the terms that you think of when you imagine the word conspiracy theorist?

Crazy?
Wacko?
Tin-Foil Hat?
Guy who sits in his parent's basement on his computer all day?

Look up the definition of "conspiracy."

1. the act of conspiring.

2. an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.

3. a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose: He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.

4. Law. an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.

5. any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.


I conspire every day... and so do you. Why must the general public believe that conspiracies are false before first considering (researching) them?

Some conspiracies are BIG, yes... such as 9/11 govt involvement or the JFK assassination, moon landing, water fluoridation, chem trails, vaccinations... etc.

Perhaps it takes some form of courage to examine these potential issues with an open mind. Ignorance is bliss?

 

[Anling]

I can find the theories amusing, but often I get rather sick of listening to the theorists. Being subjected to the bad science that is usually involved can get me somewhat irritable. But if it's all just for fun, I love crazy theories.

What are some of the terms that you think of when you imagine the word conspiracy theorist?

Crazy?
Wacko?
Tin-Foil Hat?
Guy who sits in his parent's basement on his computer all day?

I make very nice tin foil hats.

 

[EloquentBohemian]

On the Effectiveness of Aluminium Foil Helmets: An Empirical Study

 

[QSR]

Back on topic (mods pls split out the nonsense posts if you can)

I have a friend who's really into conspiracy theories, and some have pointed out precisely what my reaction is to him. Trying to debate is like pounding a brick wall, because logic doesn't enter the picture. He's just interested in what one or two wacko "experts" say about it, not what the consensus view is. A healthy skepticism is fine, but you have to acknowledge when there is overwhelming evidence against your theory.

I've noticed that a lot of conspiracies seem to fester in the Left of American politics. It seems to be perpetuated by a culture of victimhood. As much as I hate it when rightie talkers say that kind of thing, it's got a bit of truth to it. (I happen to be center-left politically myself.) If it's not 9/11, it's the Kennedy Assasination or the Federal Reserve that are causing all of the world's Ills.

Being INTP, we look at the evidence and then come to a conclusion. Most conspiracy fetishists go into any situation with their mind already made up.

 

[UniquelyCoordinated]

Generally I think they're pretty silly and just good for a laugh. I don't care if people choose to believe that there are big cover ups with NASA and LHO.
I researched the 9/11 conspiracy a while back, but only 10% of the theories held any water of argument to it.
My question is, how can a steel frame building collapse through the path of most resistance using only damage from fire? And what about all the visible squibs?
And why does the pentagon only show 1 video of the crash? A video that doesn't show much detail either.

anyway, don't mean to derail, but those are the questions to me that held some weight. I don't know what to make of it.

 

[Xel]

I'm anti conspiracy theorist because I'm pro reptillian alien satanic freemasonic Jewish Illuminati bankers.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

I come up with conspiracy theories all the time for my own personal amusement

 

[echoplex]

This thread cannot be complete without the Flat Earth Society.

If you do not either laugh or cry, you don't exist. That's my conspiracy theory.

 

[Morel Panic]

This thread cannot be complete without the Flat Earth Society.

If you do not either laugh or cry, you don't exist. That's my conspiracy theory.

From Flat Earth Society forum FAQ

Q: Why do you believe the earth is flat?
A: Well, it looks flat. As zeteticists we believe in trusting our own senses, even if it's in direct opposition to what those in authority tell us.

For this reason, I am a little reluctant to cast the flat earthers as the epitome of anti-science they are often portrayed as. Nowadays, no one who subscribes to the flat earth theory is doing so for traditional or religious reasons, but for (semi-)scientific ones. To contrast, the average grade schooler seldom bases their "world view" on science at all, but exclusively on what authority tells them to believe without explanation.

I gave a presentation in my speech class making this argument, so now I feel obligated to provide some defense to the flat earthers' (semi-)scientific integrity every time are alleged to be abnormally (somehow more so than the average human) unscientific.

Make fun of Astrology or something...Please?

 

[Kassie]

Q: Explain gravity.
A: Gravity does not exist.

Q: Then what causes us to be attracted to the surface of the earth?
A: It is our contention that the disk is actually accelerating upwards at a constant rate of 9.8m/s/s, thus producing the phenomenon you refer to as gravity. We call this universal acceleration and the mechanism is dubbed the universal accelerator, or UA.

Q: What about tides then?
A: Precisely what causes the tides is unknown, although it is theorized by some that the heavenly bodies do exert a slight gravitational pull. One explanation, therefore, is that the moon is causing the tides, with an accompanying body we call the anti-moon located underneath the disk of the earth balancing out the effect we observe. Others feel that the earth simply tips back and forth, thus causing tides.

Q: Why does gravity vary with altitude?
A: Not all FEers believe this is true. Those that do assume that the heavenly bodies exert a slight gravitational pull.

I found the contradicting statements here amusing.
The Conspiracy was also hilarious.

 

[Yellow]

I thought I was the only one who was very easily annoyed by most conspiracy theories! It seems some theories are believed simply because they exist, without any research into the details. Many fail to produce any real evidence. I can at least admire conspiracy theorists for being creative enough to think up these stories, and I can appreciate causing a bit of general confusion just for fun. Where I struggle to accpet is huge amount of otherwise intelligent people out there that eat these theories up! Even worse, is when they adopt the theory as a part of their personal belief system and they latch onto it like a teenage girl to a glittery, pink cell phone.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

By definition anything that involves more than 2 people is a conspiracy. 3 is the magic number

 

[Gorgoroth]

Gahhrgh, this should be taught in schools and tested for every year. People who fail will be executed as an example for the others.
Those that recognise that this post lacks proper logic will be cloned.

Lol, I concur, Mr. Cognisant.

 

[bananaphallus]

Conspiracy du jour: David Rockefeller & CFR, Trilateral Commisson. The assumptions made by conspiracy theorists are mostly poppycock, but there is certainly some 'food for thought' in this one.

CFR (Council on Foreign Relations), a 'think tank' of sorts, dealing in international relations and diplomatic intervention. Rockefeller is the honorary chair, and responsible for the clout and prestige the organization now wields. Cheney, McCain, Obama and wife, Billy Clinton and Hillary, Geithner, Bernanke - all members, as are an inordinate number of multinational corporations. Richard Haass, the sitting President of the CFR, is one of Obama's special envoys.

Rockefeller said the following, "Whatever the price of the Chinese Revolution it has obviously succeeded... in fostering high morale and community purpose. General social and economic progress is no less impressive....The enormous social advances of China have benefited greatly form the singleness of ideology and purpose.... The social experiment in China under Chairman Mao's leadership is one of the most important and successful in history." New York Times, 8-10-1973."

Something else which is simultaneously shocking, irritating, and interesting - The last three Presidents were all members of the CFR before being elected.

 

[Thread Killer]

I don't hate them because hate is a strong word and would suggest a sentiment that is not apathy. But I feel maybe bad for them because they create a nightmare in their mind when reality is already hard enough to deal with. They need to stop listening to Alex Jones, read different books, and get off the interwebs and embrace life and living.

I used to entertain some of my own wild thoughts so I know what it is like. But is it worth it? No. Not at all.

They need to free their minds from what horrors permeates them. They need to break away from the fear and the anger.

 

[Claverhouse]

In The Middle Of Fucking Nowhere

BUSH: So, what's the plan again?


CHENEY: Well, we need to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. So what we've decided to do is crash a whole bunch of remote-controlled planes into Wall Street and the Pentagon, say they're real hijacked commercial planes, and blame it on the towelheads; then we'll just blow up the buildings ourselves to make sure they actually fall down.


RUMSFELD: Right! And we'll make sure that some of the hijackers are agents of Saddam Hussein! That way we'll have no problem getting the public to buy the invasion.


CHENEY: No, Dick, we won't.


RUMSFELD: We won't?


CHENEY: No, that's too obvious. We'll make the hijackers Al Qaeda and then just imply a connection to Iraq.


RUMSFELD: But if we're just making up the whole thing, why not just put Saddam's fingerprints on the attack?


CHENEY: (sighing) It just has to be this way, Dick. Ups the ante, as it were. This way, we're not insulated if things go wrong in Iraq. Gives us incentive to get the invasion right the first time around.


BUSH: I'm a total idiot who can barely read, so I'll buy that. But I've got a question. Why do we need to crash planes into the Towers at all? Since everyone knows terrorists already tried to blow up that building complex from the ground up once, why don't we just blow it up like we plan to anyway, and blame the bombs on the terrorists?


RUMSFELD: Mr. President, you don't understand. It's much better to sneak into the buildings ourselves in the days before the attacks, plant the bombs and then make it look like it was exploding planes that brought the buildings down. That way, we involve more people in the plot, stand a much greater chance of being exposed and needlessly complicate everything!


CHENEY: Of course, just toppling the Twin Towers will never be enough. No one would give us the war mandate we need if we just blow up the Towers. Clearly, we also need to shoot a missile at a small corner of the Pentagon to create a mightily underpublicized additional symbol of international terrorism -- and then, obviously, we need to fake a plane crash in the middle of fucking nowhere in rural Pennsylvania.


RUMSFELD: Yeah, it goes without saying that the level of public outrage will not be sufficient without that crash in the middle of fucking nowhere.



Matt Taibbi --- The Low Post: I, Left Gatekeeper. Why the "9/11 Truth" movement makes the "Left Behind" sci-fi series read like Shakespeare






Claverhouse

 

[RobertJ]

A lot of dislike here for those who believe some things are done by more than one person.

It's almost as though some of you think it inconceivable that 2 or more people would ever work together in order to deceive or exploit others. How can this be anything short of naive?