Conscious vs Subconscious minds

[SLushhYYY]

What is your interpretation of the conscious mind and subconscious mind?

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Well, my conscious is like 'I got this shit under control' and my subconscious is like valve's hats:

 

[Vladimir]

subconscious mind is much more powerful.

 

[Da Blob]

No such animal as the unconscious mind. Freud made a great error in labeling the Others as being 'un' or 'sub' consciousnesses, inferior, simply because they communicate via nonverbal methods. Those phenomena we label as 'feelings' are communications, some of which are from our better half...

 

[Ostriker]

What is your interpretation of the conscious mind and subconscious mind?

What does that even mean, my "interpretation"? I feel like you're trying to sound deep or something by being vague as shit. Be more specific or else this is stupid.

 

[BigApplePi]

Your conscious mind is about experiencing a lot of stuff; your unconscious mind is creepy and it's there to bug you or surprise you. So get ready for the next experience.

 

[Swole Silent Guy]

The conscious creates, and the subconscious remembers. You don't think about breathing, or digesting, or blinking, because the behaviors warrant so little thought that they've receded "beneath" the consciousness. Spontaneous thought, however, occurs in the forefront.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

What is your interpretation of the conscious mind and subconscious mind?

To put it into simple terms, the unconscious is formed as the continuous result of inattention, incomprehension, and neglect, while consciousness is the reality of awareness, understanding and concentration. They're mirror worlds, inversely affecting each other.

 

[BigApplePi]

Re: Conscious/ Subconscious Def

To put it into simple terms, the unconscious is formed as the continuous result of inattention, incomprehension, and neglect, while consciousness is the reality of awareness, understanding and concentration. They're mirror worlds, inversely affecting each other.

Tentative:
The conscious world has one highly focused on specifics in the "outside" world, able to move to other specifics. The unconscious world has one alive but uncontrolled relating to the outside world. Those are extremes and everything else is in between.

Example:
Conscious - I am walking and aware of the pavements beneath my feet. I can shift my attention to sore feet or passersby.
Unconscious - I'm unaware of my digestive process.
In between - I find myself daydreaming as I walk and don't realize where I'm going.
Subconscious - I'm ready to catch myself should I trip over something.

 

[Da Blob]

So how is it possible to be conscious of consciousness?

Is not the great trap of egocentric solipsism, being unconscious of other consciousness?

Again, to label consciousness other than one's own ego as being inferior or non existent is a great error, especially because it discounts the possibility of communication/communing between conscious entities. The ego does not like to share...

 

[Reluctantly]

The conscious creates, and the subconscious remembers. You don't think about breathing, or digesting, or blinking, because the behaviors warrant so little thought that they've receded "beneath" the consciousness. Spontaneous thought, however, occurs in the forefront.

Interesting, I guess you could expand into short-term and long-term memory and talk about the subconscious as something we can still mold, but slowly - through conscious effort and concentration to. Maybe like phobias and tendencies.

To put it into simple terms, the unconscious is formed as the continuous result of inattention, incomprehension, and neglect, while consciousness is the reality of awareness, understanding and concentration. They're mirror worlds, inversely affecting each other.

Kind of like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=MVdjupsToAE
It goes counter-clockwise for me, but then if I stare at the center foot, it goes clockwise. It's cool because consciousness is so focused on what it sees, it's hard to let the unconscious allow it to focus on seeing something else. I feel like this would relate.


The unconscious can also be about the nature of a living creature. Like how when we call a cat a cat, what is it exactly that makes it a cat? Taxonomy is ultimately subjective in its categorizations, but yet we recognize that there are/is some unique nature behind a cat that makes it obvious to us. And that nature will have an unconscious influence over everything that cat experiences with the world. It has a way of life that its genes/mind-body/whatever imposes on it, outside of awareness. A cat will probably never devise theories on something like physics like a human might, but it is still alive, and will do other things because it feels compelled to materialize them.
I guess if someone was going to make a good definition and argument for psychological types, they would have to play on such an idea, explain things that way, abstractly and illuminated as a continuous expression of that unconscious ... idea ... or archetype, instead of making generalizations like taxonomy does, which can almost always be refuted, since only one exception must exist to do so. It's a bad faith ultimately to rely on taxonomic classifications for truth, rather than for seeking order.

 

[Vrecknidj]

What is your interpretation of the conscious mind and subconscious mind?

I don't know what you mean by the terms, so I don't know how to respond. It's not unlike someone asking me "Do you believe in God?" My best response is usually something like "I have no idea, because I don't know what you mean by your use of the word 'God'."

Can you provide clear and unambiguous definitions of the terms?

Dave

 

[BigApplePi]

So how is it possible to be conscious of consciousness?

That's a special specialty.

Is not the great trap of egocentric solipsism, being unconscious of other consciousness?

I don't know. If one is isolated, there aren't too many other consciousnesses around. If one interacts, the behavior of other life is suspiciously like one's own. One can put out some scientific inquiries to other suspected consciousnesses and see how they respond.

Again, to label consciousness other than one's own ego as being inferior or non existent is a great error, especially because it discounts the possibility of communication/communing between conscious entities.

Well other egos while objectively like one's own and very different when it comes to controlling them. One does seem to have superior control.

The ego does not like to share...

Don't understand that one.

 

[BigApplePi]

It goes counter-clockwise for me, but then if I stare at the center foot, it goes clockwise. It's cool because consciousness is so focused on what it sees, it's hard to let the unconscious allow it to focus on seeing something else. I feel like this would relate.

Right. If one stares as you say, one can control the direction and see her reverse. I haven't stopped to think what makes this work, but I'm sure the aim of the focus is what sets it off. Consciousness depends on the kind of focus.

The unconscious can also be about the nature of a living creature. Like how when we call a cat a cat, what is it exactly that makes it a cat? Taxonomy is ultimately subjective in its categorizations, but yet we recognize that there are/is some unique nature behind a cat that makes it obvious to us. And that nature will have an unconscious influence over everything that cat experiences with the world. It has a way of life that its genes/mind-body/whatever imposes on it, outside of awareness. A cat will probably never devise theories on something like physics like a human might, but it is still alive, and will do other things because it feels compelled to materialize them.
I guess if someone was going to make a good definition and argument for psychological types, they would have to play on such an idea, explain things that way, abstractly and illuminated as a continuous expression of that unconscious ... idea ... or archetype, instead of making generalizations like taxonomy does, which can almost always be refuted, since only one exception must exist to do so. It's a bad faith ultimately to rely on taxonomic classifications for truth, rather than for seeking order.

My cat has the theory that around 8:15 am or pm I will feed it. It checks out this theory by letting out non-stop meows. The cat is much smarter than I am and usually its theory bears out in practice, but not always.

 

[Reluctantly]

My cat has the theory that around 8:15 am or pm I will feed it. It checks out this theory by letting out non-stop meows. The cat is much smarter than I am and usually its theory bears out in practice, but not always.

Meowing works on humans. Supposedly, it's something they do for people, but not so much when they are in the wild with other cats.
So does purring, batting softly with its paw, and rubbing its body on the suspecting sucker.
I love slapping cats. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmAmvVl0Gf0&feature=related

 

[Da Blob]

That's a special specialty.
True but necessary for cognitive development as a generalization that can develop into a specialty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metacognition


I don't know. If one is isolated, there aren't too many other consciousnesses around.
How is this determined?

If one interacts, the behavior of other life is suspiciously like one's own. One can put out some scientific inquiries to other suspected consciousnesses and see how they respond.
Well this only applies to consciousnesses that use abstractions and symbols to communicate, which pretty much discounts all intuitive consciousness.

Well other egos while objectively like one's own and very different when it comes to controlling them. One does seem to have superior control.
Don't understand that one.

EGO, It is all about control or the illusion thereof.

 

[SLushhYYY]

Is it possible to think through you're subconscious?

 

[Da Blob]

Is it possible to think through you're subconscious?

In the Creative Problem Solving process there is a stage called incubation. One mixes a recipe of information as ingredients and lets it simmer in the subconscious for a period of time. Sometimes this produces an epiphany without conscious effort...

There is also the question of how much a role the 'sub' conscious plays in the mental processing of information that we have labeled Intuition.

 

[BigApplePi]

In the Creative Problem Solving process there is a stage called incubation. One mixes a recipe of information as ingredients and lets it simmer in the subconscious for a period of time. Sometimes this produces an epiphany without conscious effort...

There is also the question of how much a role the 'sub' conscious plays in the mental processing of information that we have labeled Intuition.

This is not a finished thought, but one may consciously make suggestions to oneself to be on the alert for things. Meanwhile let the rest of your mind do it's thing, simmer, change, reorient over time to something ... anything else. Now your initial suggestion has a fresh orientation and will come up with something fresh, maybe productive.

Reminds me of binocular vision over monocular vision ... how about multi-ocular vision?

 

[Da Blob]

This is not a finished thought, but one may consciously make suggestions to oneself to be on the alert for things. Meanwhile let the rest of your mind do it's thing, simmer, change, reorient over time to something ... anything else. Now your initial suggestion has a fresh orientation and will come up with something fresh, maybe productive.

Reminds me of binocular vision over monocular vision ... how about multi-ocular vision?

Some would claim that being freed from self awareness results in 'multi-ocular' vision.

As far as humans I have suggested that indeed we do have a multi-ocular subjective POV comprised of reptilian, mammalian, primate and human perspectives

However, there is also this to consider for comparison...

Revealtions 4: 6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.

My own model of self as the image seen in opposing mirrors has been derided by some, but then perhaps it is not my model...

EDIT:
[bimgx=650]http://intpforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1805&stc=1&d=1347909720[/bimgx]

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Kind of like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVdjupsToAE
It goes counter-clockwise for me, but then if I stare at the center foot, it goes clockwise. It's cool because consciousness is so focused on what it sees, it's hard to let the unconscious allow it to focus on seeing something else. I feel like this would relate.

It switches legs lol. You can see past the illusion if you concentrate hard enough. Another way would be to grab screenshots to break it down.

Damn, nevermind. Found a way to switch it at will, trippy. If I focus on pivotal 180° turns, it breaks the illusion, and I can see her going both ways.

I still don't get why it seems like the leg switches though, even if I can do it at will.

 

[Da Blob]

[bimgx=650]http://intpforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1806&stc=1&d=1347981466[/bimgx]

 

[Vidi]

^
I like the picture, who's the artist?

 

[Da Blob]

^
I like the picture, who's the artist?

https://www.facebook.com/josie.bantuwag


But I tweaked it a bit to serve my purpose....

 

[Vidi]

Account looks private... I'm not on FB, but thanks.

 

[7even]

While you are 'daydreaming' (while communicating with people) do you slip into your sub conscious? Are you conscious of slipping into your sub conscious? Sometimes I blank out, and something strange goes on. It's not Thinking, it feels very... void - or perhaps it's imagination going haywire.

Do animals (excluding humans) experience a collective consciousness? - Cows on a field look to me as if they are on the same 'wave', it seems they react very similarly to stimuli when grouped together. Can we experience a state similar to an animals perception?

Is it possible that humans experience a collective intangible sub-consciousness?

What is being 'individual' and does true actual 'individuality' exist among humans?

Are animals essentially: not self-aware, not conscious of being conscious, do not have a Judging component (or perhaps also extremely primitive), posses a powerful Perception (and thus living totally in the present) and Feel on a very primal level?

*cough* @Da Blob *cough*

*sneeze* Share your wisdom *sneeze*

 

[Da Blob]

Account looks private... I'm not on FB, but thanks.

I tried to find more info, but josie bantuwag just seems to be a persona limited to facebook (no galleries or mentions) It may be that josie just posted that image taken by someone else (?)

 

[Da Blob]

While you are 'daydreaming' (while communicating with people) do you slip into your sub conscious? Are you conscious of slipping into your sub conscious? Sometimes I blank out, and something strange goes on. It's not Thinking, it feels very... void - or perhaps it's imagination going haywire.

There really is no objective justification to categorize consciousnesses into categories, with the arbitrary labels - sub, higher, un, altered, ego, id, super ego, super id, etc.
I think the idea of intentional consciousness is a valid category to explore though, that is, if one can be conscious of one's own intentions. Can we choose what we focus upon?
As far as the state of mind that one describes, the void is like a silent confusion, like consciousness slipping from one gear to another due to a bad clutch (?)

Do animals (excluding humans) experience a collective consciousness? - Cows on a field look to me as if they are on the same 'wave', it seems they react very similarly to stimuli when grouped together.

Mob Mentality does seem to be a very real phenomena amongst social animals. I think some have suggested that the role of mirror neurons is the source for individuals organisms behaving as one organism when in a group.

Can we experience a state similar to an animals perception?

Yes! Some prize that state of consciousness as an escape from Self via an escape from Self awareness. It is better than drugs for some...

Is it possible that humans experience a collective intangible sub-consciousness?

re: nonverbal communication?

What is being 'individual' and does true actual 'individuality' exist among humans?

Yes and no...

individuality is a quantitative state, while humanity is a qualitative state. There is also this quandary, objective science can not deal with quantity of one, it is all about the comparisons/statistical analysis of large groups, yet humanity, as such a group, is defined by subjective qualities and experiences at the level of the individual.
One could almost make a religious statement about the boundary of One...

Are animals essentially: not self-aware, not conscious of being conscious, do not have a Judging component (or perhaps also extremely primitive), posses a powerful Perception (and thus living totally in the present) and Feel on a very primal level?

Again yes and no, there are at least 5 other species on this planet that we share a sense of self with. Those that do not have a sense of self have a systematic stress response system for adapting to changes in the environment. This is indeed much of what classical conditioning is all about, a primitive system of adaption (learning) based upon stimulus and response.

*sneeze* Share your wisdom *sneeze*

Unfortunately, for the human race, it seems to be impossible to share wisdom. Otherwise, it would be difficult to explain why generation after generation makes the same foolish mistakes.

An observer seems to be limited to sharing 'wise' observations, and the quality of wisdom of those observations seem to exist like attachments to the messages of observation, that have to be opened, but often are not.

 

[7even]

There are at least 5 other species on this planet that we share a sense of self with.

The species, what are they?

Unfortunately, for the human race, it seems to be impossible to share wisdom. Otherwise, it would be difficult to explain why generation after generation makes the same foolish mistakes.

Nature: people forget.

 

[IdeasNotTheProblem]

I been playing with the idea that consciousness is a quantitative function. Allowing us to say one species is more conscious than another species. Humans possess a far superior level of consciousness than any other species. The fully awake and alert human would perceive the world with a high level of consciousness as well as incorporating less conscious functions that have been instilled over a greater period of time. It's these less conscious functions that would include Jung's theory of the "Collective Unconscious". The idea being our "least" conscious functions were developed before man was evolved, and resembled a more reptilian form. Does this sound ridiculous?

 

[Da Blob]

Elephants, Chimps, Apes, Cetaceans have been shown to be self aware, but I don't know how many species have actually been tested for that quality (?)

I been playing with the idea that consciousness is a quantitative function. Allowing us to say one species is more conscious than another species. Humans possess a far superior level of consciousness than any other species. The fully awake and alert human would perceive the world with a high level of consciousness as well as incorporating less conscious functions that have been instilled over a greater period of time. It's these less conscious functions that would include Jung's theory of the "Collective Unconscious". The idea being our "least" conscious functions were developed before man was evolved, and resembled a more reptilian form. Does this sound ridiculous?

No, but it could be erroneous.

I think that consciousness is a quality, that would be difficult to quantify, but then one could make the case that is exactly what various and sundry 'intelligence' tests are doing.

One also needs to remember that other of the higher species have 'keener' senses than humans, in other words keener consciousness of sights, smells, sounds etc.

Personally, I find that a model that suggests that the primitive consciousnesses associated with the lesser beasts are incorporated into human consciousnesses has a neurological basis (Re: reptilian, old mammalian, neo-mammalian organelles in the human brain). If nothing else, such a model is very useful in explaining 'human' behavior. One can follow the development of the stress response through the circuitry of the human brain, from the FFF response of reptiles, to the elaboration of that response via emotions in the old mammallian endocrine system, all the way up to coping and defense mechanisms of the cerebral cortex.

A great deal of human behavior has a common neurological foundation that also results in the behavior of Reptiles. Although I maintain a skeptical POV concerning Evolutionary Psychology, there is no doubt that field offers insights and analogies that can aid in the understanding of human consciousness and behavior.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_psychology


My perspective is that often there is simply one way of doing something properly and biological evolution is not the only explanation, but rather circumstances can require the very same adaptive technique be adopted simultaneously by a number of species if they are to survive a sudden change in the environment...