Class Participation

[makeupisanevilnecessity]

Many professors and teachers feel compelled to create a dialogue with students; however, (maybe as an INTP) I do not process information through discussions well. I work best by observing and listening to the professor's lecture, and most times this intense processing of information (haha) is misrepresented by a blank stare. I am paying attention, I swear!

Other times, professors feel so compelled to have discussions that blatantly obvious or redundant questions are asked at which point I refuse (more subconsciously than intentional) to participate.

Some professors would "plead" for a response, while other professors would become agitated and demand it.

I suppose this is more a rant than an opening for a discussion, but throw in your two cents, anybody? :/

 

[Architectonic]

What subjects? In general, one forms a better understanding of a particular topic after a proper discussion. This is not the same thing as being quizzed. But some concepts (or math) takes a little while to soak in and expecting immediate discussion can be a mistake.
You have to look at it from the professors point of view - they are interested in the topic and would appreciate some enthusiasm when they show something that they find enlightening.

 

[Words]

Doubtful that it has to do with being INTP. As oppose to you, I think and am stimulated best through discussions. During lectures, I always discover numerous connections, perspectives, patterns, and logical inconsistencies. In order to "fix" the holes within my "internal system" and/or to present a "what if" scenario, I need to talk....now. Ideas are very temporary. There is always a factor within the topic that requires explanation. There is always a connection to the "grander scheme of things."

And are you not initiating discussion now? Or could there be an alternate agenda behind this thread besides the joy per se?

 

[Iuanes]

Talking is different from typing. I relate to the OP fully. I listen intently, doodle mostly, write the relevant notes, and in the end understand the material at the level the Professor would most appreciate.

So much class discussion is so utterly pointless and simply a chance for people to speak because they like speaking. Don't get me wrong, many people share some very insightful ideas, but for me, I'm still processing and talking takes up too much focus.

For me to get credit for participation, I just remembered the random nuggets of information that most people forget and regurgitated them when prompted, and only when NO ONE else was going to say it.

 

[Words]

For me to get credit for participation, I just remembered the random nuggets of information that most people forget and regurgitated them when prompted, and only when NO ONE else was going to say it.

Have you tried inquiry? I don't mean this in an offensive manner. Just, it provokes more possible "thought" than simply stating things.

 

[Oblivious]

I am sometimes able to perceive the structure of a lesson and point out to the lecturer missing bits of his discussion. The more absentminded professors usually appreciate this, and it shows that I am listening, even though it is suspicious that I am not.

The reason would be because I am most adept at distracting myself with my imagination. My mind is my greatest distraction.

 

[Iuanes]

Have you tried inquiry? I don't mean this in an offensive manner. Just, it provokes more possible "thought" than simply stating things.

Yes of course. Again though, its like, I can't even formulate the right question at the right time because it'll probably sound strange or unrelated to the discourse at hand and I am thinking about the answer and changing the context of the question as I ask it. It just seems silly then and then I guess 'past' when it comes out. I also dislike the feeling of asking a question just to ask a question even if it began as a genuine inquiry.

And I'm not saying this to justify my behaviour, just trying to explain it.

 

[digital angel]

I think it depends on the subject. Discussion is interesting depending on the subject matter. However, having said that, there are some subjects that like math, where doing is more illustrative and perhaps enlightenting than discussion itself. Other subjects like philosophy breed enlightenment via discussion.

 

[snafupants]

It seems like a shortcut by the teacher to get a barometer on how much you know or how much work you have done or how much time you have pored into the material. To bypass the pains of reading every line of material for a course, I'll basically pick out the salient details in an article to save myself time and comment on those things (the abstract part of an article is golden). Like Matt Damon's character in Rounders, just one good play every hour - or, in this case, insightful comment every hour - and you'll be winning. You have to realize how they evaluate these things. Your teacher/professor meditates every few weeks on how active you've been in class. So, make a couple of coherent comments every period and he'll remember you. Not that hard.

 

[Jesse]

This was never a problem for me. My greatest strength is quick understanding and discussions are great for that. It doesn't work with every subject (like others have said maths is better learn't by doing) but discussions are a valid teaching mechanism.

I don't think it's an INTP thing to be bad at participating in discussions, but then I have begun to doubt my type so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

 

[Stigmata]

For the sake of giving a response that is accurate, I must dissect the broad issue of Class Participation to fully encompass my thought. Class Participation, in the sense of group discussion and sharing ideas in the standard institutionalized format, especially the forced interactions more notable in high school settings, I typically find both boring and slightly intrusive, personally. I hated the mandatory, go around the class and everyone comment or pose a question method, because then I'm forced through circumstance to say something on the spot, as opposed to letting questions/comment naturally and being able fully develop before speaking.

Now on the general idea of communicating ideas in a non instructional setting, I like this to a certain degree and with the right group composition, as it can be engaging enough to hold my interest, and allows me hear different perspectives and ideas that I possibly hadn't considered. Regardless, both can be rewarding, yet taxing on an introvert given the dynamic of the discussion.

 

[Jesse]

I hated the mandatory, go around the class and everyone comment or pose a question method.

My school never did that at all. It was mostly the teacher explaining something than asking questions, with about 3-5 people answering and if the teacher felt someone was not paying attention he would ask a question about something we just went over. Of course it worked best when people in class disagreed (go philosophy or International Studies).

 

[Trebuchet]

Having taught a lot of different classes, I can at least explain why they want some kind of response. Preparing a lesson and then presenting it in a way that will be of value to the students is exhausting. You have to pour all of yourself into what is essentially a performance. Feedback from the students gives you some idea of whether you have to make changes on the fly.

Have you ever watched a musical performance where the audience starts clapping along, and the performance gets better? The energy of the audience goes back to the performers. It is the same with teaching. When students are asking questions, or answering them, and aren't sitting there with a blank stare, the teaching gets better. It has more energy and life, and becomes more relevant to the class. Remember that not everyone is at the same level of understanding. The teacher knows this, and wants to help everyone get out of it what they can. But without some kind of participation, there is no way to do it.

Your teacher is probably trying to find the very best way to reach you, and doesn't know you well enough to do it right. This is, of course, not an excuse for a teacher to act like a jerk about it. They should respect that some people aren't as vocal, and not publicly humiliate them or hurt them academically. But anyone pleading for a response truly needs one, and it is a sign of a teacher who cares about doing a good job. It may not be a sign of a teacher who can do a good job, but maybe A for effort?

Anyway, being able to frame a question in class and publicly answer a question are both extremely valuable skills, even if you hate them. I have sympathy for your plight. I'm INTP myself. But try not to hate the the teachers too much for wanting discussion in class.

 

[a detached retina]

I think a quick understanding can be what leads discussions to be stupid to an INTP. This of course depends on the other kids in your class and the subject matter etc.

I am familiar with the experience, namely in anthropology class, of a bunch of kids repeating themselves with statements like "Our culture perceives beauty differently than does theirs." and then a few seconds later "Yeah their culture is different than ours, they find fatter women attractive and we find thinner women attractive." and then a few seconds later "Hey I find fatter women attractive" then laughing, then "no but it's because they were raised by different parents and different friends and stuff that they find different things attractive."

I thought this was all apparent and I'm wondering to myself "I wonder if the sound of a language is reflective of the environment a culture developed in, in any way?"

 

[Zensunni]

In college, lectures are for the teacher to hold forth their knowledge. A seminar, on the other hand, is designed for directed interaction. If you have a problem with interaction, you will do worse in the course.

Being an INTP, I can tell you that your issue is not one from which I suffer. I get alot out of extemporaneous dialogues. When talking with others you, firstly, must construct a cogent, logical progressional thought and, second, the interactions and thoughts of others allow you to see and/or consider things in ways you had not previously.

As they say, teachers learn from students while teaching. Interrogatories are a great way to make the critical and creative juices flow.

 

[Lobstrich]

In classes like Math I do not participate, because well, I don't even do the math assigned to me. I dislike math.

But classes like history, Danish(or whatever language you might have) English etc. I really like to participate in them. History because I like history, I like learning. And classes like Danish and English is because my teacher is very much like me he sees everything as an oppportunity to learn, thesis + antithesis = synthesis.

So I guess the bottom line is that I do participate alot.

 

[Beat Mango]

I love class discussions too. You might have to find some other deterministic typology to blame.

 

[Jondizl]

I prefer there to be discussion about topics, so long as it is relevant. In school I would always give the most input to discussion, and would frequently challenge the information given by both the textbook and the teacher. This often led to quite an interesting debate over the validity of certain theories between myself and my teachers, and I always gained a much greater understanding of the subject matter through discussion.

I believe it stemmed from the fact that it allowed me to hear another's opinion and find flaws within it, which inherently would highlight any similar flaws in my own thinking.

In any case, I thoroughly enjoyed school not for any particular subject or friends I made, but for all the teachers who cared enough to indulge my scepticism. I was a terrible student, but for some reason my teachers liked me. In honesty, I feel that my last 2 years of school were perhaps the most valuable years of my life. I seemed to be gifted with teachers who were always up for a good fight and who shared my passion for knowledge.

There are a lot of teachers I would thank for making me who I am today, simply by indulging my (admittedly quite often arrogant and rude) ideas and beliefs and countering them with their own. Sometimes I was wrong, sometimes I was right. A lot of the time both myself and my teachers realised that some things are not simple enough to be understood in the course of one discussion.

While I can sympathize with the fact that often the opinions of are idiotic and childish, realise that our own ideas often are as well. I know that I'm frequently too busy focussing on my own thoughts to notice solutions and answers to my problems right in front of me.

 

[Jordan~]

I learn far better by discussion than by another means. If I can talk to a teacher one-on-one, especially, or in a small group, the fact that I have to think on my feet and engage with the information results in far better understanding than if I just have to sit through a dry lecture on the subject. That's not to say that I don't retain information received in the latter way well, just that I don't really have to think about it when it's received passively like that. For some reason I managed to remember everything from classes in school without having been paying a blind bit of attention.

Though I'm not an INTP and I do have ADHD, so that might have something to do with it.