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Challenge: name an absolute moral (a moral that is true for every human culture)

Jordan~

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If the children starve, there's no agency behind the killing and it's morally neutral. If they're killed for food, though, there is agency and it becomes a moral issue. Is there agency involved in the inaction of not killing them that may lead to more deaths, though? In that case, is the society morally culpable for being low on food in the first place?
 
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There is also the issue of deontology. Some people would decide that there is no excuse for eating a child, no matter what situation you are in.
 

RedN

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its not really a moral but treason is equally bad in any country.
 

Latte

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Does our idea of physical reality necessitate morality as something other than a format in which one categorizes actions (which leads to modified social behavior, social behavior uniformity in societies due to sharing/negotiating when it comes to conceptual framework and axioms, etc)?

I can't see any way to logically argue it does.

One can, however, append axioms to one's reality structure on which one may build a framework of morality. Some religions are examples of things filling such a function, but there are many other ways.

In the case of religion there is usually illusive added coherency from the appended portion that makes it seem like a necessary part of a reality idea.

There are also "secular" cases where the same occurs, such as when people invoke "what is natural", or have an axiom of "actions which yield results I like is "right", that which yields results I dislike is "wrong"", cases where it has to do with ideas of intent, and other sorts.


In the end, they aren't really necessary or even non-detrimental to having an efficient and all-encompassing understanding structure building/modification method, nor for deciding courses of action.

A delusional subsystem emergent from very common structural aspects of cognitive systems when it comes to humans.

I've seen no psychology study strongly indicating any inherent morals. Things that can superficially look like morals if one assumes too much, yes, but far from necessarily being morals. Seems like a framework without any hard coded rules.
 

Architect

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The Golden Rule is the only universal moral rule that we have. Before you say 'but what about despotic rulers?' I'd reply that TGR is a moral rule for people, not governments. When people band together into any organization they can convince themselves to do all sorts of horrible things they would't do as an individual.

I suspect that TGR is encoded in our native programming somehow, perhaps in the realization that to be an individual with rights you have to accord others those same rights. Regardless it is the rule that everybody, except for sociopaths, follow.

By the way it is a complete myth that religion created TGR and enforces it. As an organization people often use religion as a tool to oppress, cheat and hurt others.
 

Latte

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Morality explicitly involves a perception of actions being good and right or bad and wrong, though. It is not the same as follow or being inclined to follow (directly or emergently) a rule or guideline. Though they are a Venn Diagram.

I must also question the universality. Copious non-sociopath individuals have no golden rule. If there is an exception to a rule, especially one not easily explained as a phenomena isolated to that exception, its general applicability is highly dubious.
 

Thurlor

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killing - not absolutely wrong, because killing a bastard makes you a hero

So what? Right and wrong can't be determined by vote. Historically the majority of people thought that slavery was okay despite the truth being otherwise.

The best universal moral is a version of The Golden Rule - Do not do unto others that which you don't want done unto yourself.
 

nexion

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So what? Right and wrong can't be determined by vote. Historically the majority of people thought that slavery was okay despite the truth being otherwise.

The best universal moral is a version of The Golden Rule - Do not do unto others that which you don't want done unto yourself.

That's the silver rule, and it's hardly universal.

At OP: why even bother with this question? What are you trying to prove?
 

Thurlor

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That's the silver rule, and it's hardly universal.


Thanks for reminding me. I had heard of The Silver Rule before but it had slipped my mind.

The only thing preventing it from being universal is hypocrisy. I think that is the only way someone can not agree with the Silver Rule.
 

Minuend

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The Golden Rule is the only universal moral rule that we have. Before you say 'but what about despotic rulers?' I'd reply that TGR is a moral rule for people, not governments. When people band together into any organization they can convince themselves to do all sorts of horrible things they would't do as an individual.

I suspect that TGR is encoded in our native programming somehow, perhaps in the realization that to be an individual with rights you have to accord others those same rights. Regardless it is the rule that everybody, except for sociopaths, follow.

By the way it is a complete myth that religion created TGR and enforces it. As an organization people often use religion as a tool to oppress, cheat and hurt others.

20120706.gif

We evolved as pack animals and mechanisms resembling altruism do exist. That is not a matter of morality, though. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Selfish_Gene
 

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle

This is the basis behind libertarianism/Objectivism, with many proponents of these views arguing that this should be the only enforced moral. The control of morals, both dictation and enforcement, is the basis behind all religious organisations and governments. It is the best way to gain power over the masses with minimal effort and has caused immeasurable suffering upon the world (and continues to). If we only enforce this one we could all be free individuals living in a better society than any which could be created from collective rule.
 

BigApplePi

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle

This is the basis behind libertarianism/Objectivism, with many proponents of these views arguing that this should be the only enforced moral. The control of morals, both dictation and enforcement, is the basis behind all religious organisations and governments. It is the best way to gain power over the masses with minimal effort and has caused immeasurable suffering upon the world (and continues to). If we only enforce this one we could all be free individuals living in a better society than any which could be created from collective rule.
Hello wadlez. What about smoking manufacturers or illicit drug manufacturers, say of PCPs or cocaine? What about drinking while driving? Many people are seduced by this yet it seems ultimately harmful to them below their threshold of awareness. It could be argued then to use violence to suppress such manufacterers.
 

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Hello wadlez. What about smoking manufacturers or illicit drug manufacturers, say of PCPs or cocaine? What about drinking while driving? Many people are seduced by this yet it seems ultimately harmful to them below their threshold of awareness. It could be argued then to use violence to suppress such manufacterers.

If they harm anyone, then they violated that principle. If they drink and drive and arrive safe at their destination, there was no harm done.

The non-aggression principle can be seen as a rational universal absolute moral. It stems from the princple of self-ownership, that is a priori true that can't be denied as well.
 

Latte

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The non-aggression principle can be seen as a rational universal absolute moral. It stems from the princple of self-ownership, that is a priori true that can't be denied as well.

1DUMU


Visit your local prison, warzone or tax office today and get two free realizations for the price of one.

Or try living as a nudist in a myriad of countries.
 

Analyzer

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1DUMU


Visit your local prison, warzone or tax office today and get two free realizations for the price of one.

Or try living as a nudist in a myriad of countries.

Just because certain people don't understand the self-ownership axiom and how it relates to the non-aggression principle does not mean it does not exist.
 

Sickles

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All cultures, and indeed all complex social animals must abide by the "Golden Rule" morality in order to function as a cohesive unit whose purpose is survival. Dont needlessly kill. Dont steal. Dont take more than you need. Do not declare war. ANd so on. So by dent of the definition, all successful human cultures must also abide by the "Golden Rule". Religious followers would have us think this idea comes from their God. Could be, however it is not neccessary.
 

FancyCorndog

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Make us better. (i.e., improve the state of mankind or of your society)


Of course you can argue against this just as you can any other principle, but I think it's unnatural to do so. Unfortunately, even if this is a Universal virtue, its end is ambiguous and its means especially so. So it's not really useful.
 

Hawkeye

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Feeling extreme pain is not nice and should be avoided.
 

patchtrix

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My original thought was that morals don't necessarily exist, only what is or what is not socially acceptable. So, I guess the question to me is "what is socially unacceptable across all cultures?" Personal "morals" will vary greatly from person to person within a culture. This is a very tough question because something unacceptable in one society will certainly be frowned upon in a another. I'm not satisfied with my answer but I think, somewhat cliche "do unto others...." is best I can come up with.
 

Hawkeye

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My original thought was that morals don't necessarily exist, only what is or what is not socially acceptable. So, I guess the question to me is "what is socially unacceptable across all cultures?" Personal "morals" will vary greatly from person to person within a culture. This is a very tough question because something unacceptable in one society will certainly be frowned upon in a another. I'm not satisfied with my answer but I think, somewhat cliche "do unto others...." is best I can come up with.

I personally prefer the reverse golden rule - "Don't do unto others..."

I don't think there is such thing as an absolute moral. It's all subjective and many a time people will break their moral code if the right conditions are right such as basic survival/love/revenge/etc...
 

patchtrix

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I personally prefer the reverse golden rule - "Don't do unto others..."

I don't think there is such thing as an absolute moral. It's all subjective and many a time people will break their moral code if the right conditions are right such as basic survival/love/revenge/etc...
Agreed...i like that wording better
 
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