Caring what people think

[EmergingAlbert]

I just would like to discuss whether or not you care what others think about you. Do you care? I've observed that some INTP's care very much what others think of them (and, naturally, have confidence issues because most people think INTP's are "weird"), and some couldn't care less. I think this trait, therefore, has little to do with type.

This leads to my first question: What personality trait do you think causes the desire to be viewed favorably by others? Do you think it's related to your family raising/environment, genetics, or is it in fact related to MBTI type? Or is it something completely different? Or possibly a combination of the above? Post your hypotheses and theories!

Second, I'd just like to post my personal experience with the trait and see how many of y'all relate. I personally don't care what strangers think of me. I can run around in a grocery store, flailing my arms about like a madman, scream "I eat poop!" repeatedly, and not give one single fuck what people think. Strangers can judge me as much as they want, but they are idiots if they think they can draw accurate conclusions about someone with whom they've never had any physical or social contact.

However, when it comes to people that I do know, I'm completely different. I care greatly what people think of me when I know those people. I don't even have to be close to said people or love them...or even like them. If they are people whom I see on a regular basis, then I care what they think of me. It's not even that I want them to view me favorably (although that can be the case, depending on the person). The main thing is that I want them to keep viewing me the same way. For some strange reason, I have an irrational fear of not living up to my first impression (again, only in the case of someone that I see regularly), even if that first impression is a bad one. If someone views me as a bad person, I don't want them to view me in a positive light if they currently view me in a negative light (and vice versa). Probably the people this is worst with is my parents because I see them and interact with them more than anyone else I know. The less often I see a person, the less I care what they think of me.

Anyway, can anyone relate to this? If so, are you an INTP?

Finally, my last question is simply a general question. Do you care what other people think of you? If so, in what circumstances, and why?

 

[Etheri]

Sometimes, I tell myself it doesn't matter, I tell myself I do not care... But if that were true, why am I telling myself these things to begin with?

I'll be the first to admit, I do care about what others think. It's not the only thing that matters, not at all, but it's not something i'm completely above.

Edit : I do not feel like I have confidence issues, however. Unless this means I sometimes know it's better to simply shut up, because proving your point sometimes leads nowhere, even when you're 'right'.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Unless a person is extremely depressed or antisocial, I'd say a person always has some measure of care for what others think. I realized this in an existentialism class I once took, No Exit by Sarte comes to mind but there were other works that influenced my thought. Before this, I used to think I was unique because it and other social conformity didn't apply to me but now I'm more open-minded about it.

Besides general matters of life, I think different personalities have different things in which they care about what others think and also different ways it manifests. I don't care much for conformity, but at the same time I don't want people to get the wrong idea about my intentions, interests or values because it affects how they treat me. So while I may not have a need to adopt or conform to other's opinions, I still place importance on how I come off.

Overt dependency on external validation and perspective I think is easy to observe, being marked by social compliance, advice-seeking, self-image perfection, self-monitoring, submissiveness(or assertiveness through conformity), and shaky self-esteem.

I wouldn't relate it to MBTI, and I think other empirical personality assessments cover it well, but by Enneagram there is the Image triad consisting of enneatypes 2, 3, and 4; I'd also say the Compliant triad(1, 2, 6) is relevant; from this I might say enneatype 2 cares the most about what others think.

 

[Da Blob]

I have always been amazed at the number of people quite willing to sacrifice every meaningful human relationship in their lives, in order to experience the applause of complete strangers

By the same token, there are those who will go to great lengths of conforming and hoping to be invisible in social settings to avoid criticism from strangers.

I don't much care what people think of me, for few have thought me worthy of getting to know as a human being. If they wish to reject an image of who they think I am to boost their own egos, so be it. It is their loss.

I do care about what people think of my work and my ideas. It seems to me, that one's work is really a better reflection of one's identity than any other type of image, even the applause of strangers given to those who entertain them...

 

[bos]

i think isolation throughout life causes that desire for understanding, approval, and closeness.
when you do well with life, your standards and focus may shift to a higher level.
competency loosens an urgent seeking to desperately control the uncontrollable, which by the way, is not as heavily swayed by our decisions and impressions as many of us people think.

 

[fissionesque]

(INTJ, but I wanted to answer, anyway) It really depends on the situation, but the one constant is that I want people to think I'm competent. I will go to great lengths to prove that to people and have intense ruminations over past failures. I think this is healthy in a lot of ways (not the rumination part). If I didn't care if people thought I was competent, I would do a lot more slacking off. I probably wouldn't get good opportunities, references, etc.

As far as people thinking I'm weird? Meh. I've already established that with myself a long time ago. If someone is the type to think I'm weird (ESFJ bitches), I probably won't want them around in the first place. In fact, if someone thinks I'm weird, I will probably end up thinking less of them as well, so it works in both our favor.

 

[Niclmaki]

Pretty much never, but I will "feign" care if it is expected of me. Similiar to what Etheri had said.

 

[EmergingAlbert]

(INTJ, but I wanted to answer, anyway) It really depends on the situation, but the one constant is that I want people to think I'm competent. I will go to great lengths to prove that to people and have intense ruminations over past failures. I think this is healthy in a lot of ways (not the rumination part). If I didn't care if people thought I was competent, I would do a lot more slacking off. I probably wouldn't get good opportunities, references, etc.

I can certainly relate to this. It's not so much that I care about people thinking I'm competent in general, but I do care that people think I'm smart/intelligent. I get really down on myself when people think I'm stupid. But actually, when people think I'm weird, I often take it as a compliment. I think weirdness is a good thing.

Also, I don't mind that you answered even though you're an INTJ...when I said INTP's only, I meant just for voting on the poll. So if you voted, I'd appreciate it if you removed your vote. However, I do value your written response.

 

[walfin]

It depends primarily on my mood, which as far as I am concerned is random since I cannot understand it.

 

[Architect]

Since I was very young I've been known for not caring what people think. I really don't, it has always seemed a bad idea to concern yourself with the thoughts of others.

 

[kitroot]

I am quite averse to conflict, criticism and ridicule (etc.) and as such go to some lengths to avoid these things. I tend to hang on to negative experiences and can find myself replaying random events from random points in the past and cringing with only a slightly diminished reaction from what was felt at the time the event occurred.

I think it may have something to do with prior negative social experiences and susceptibility to reacting to such experiences, although there must be some determinants of such susceptibility. Maybe something to do with a feeling of competence/comfort in a relationship, as I tend to relax considerably (almost taking people for granted sometimes) once I know the 'rules' which apply to a particular relationship. I'm an INTP btw.

 

[Brahma]

Having only lived primarily in my own fantasies until recently, I haven't much cared about what people think of me. What I can't decide is whether I have to make an effort to dress up / look good at all, as what is the use of it all when you could just as well reside in the make-believe world which centers around you.

But this is definitely due to my prior negative experiences in the social sector. I'd say I'm a lot more outwardly social now than, say, two years ago.

 

[Jennywocky]

I'm a "recovering" carer. I feel happier nowadays where I've managed to get some distance in there and can dismiss people who have no relevant bearing on my life. But in the past I did care and had a lot of anxiety socially and otherwise about people misunderstanding and/or misreading me, leading to rejection.

The thing is that I was also very aware of this, and it frustrated me to no end that I cared at all. I don't really understand why I cared, and my current state (where I don't particularly LIKE being misunderstood/misjudged but no longer fret much about it and don't let it inhibit me much) feels much more "natural" to me, and I'm comfortable and happier than I was before in my life.

That suggests to me that some of it might have come from my upbringing, where I felt that support and love was very conditional, and where people did not naturally try to understand me or imagine good intent for any of my actions they did not understand. This came not only from external group (church and peers) but also even within my own nuclear family at the time-- being misunderstood or misjudged could easily result in punishment and/or downright rejection, followed by a loss of feelings of security, safety, and value. I can't conjecture whether my feelings came solely from that context but I am sure it greatly contributed to it.

 

[Da Blob]

I am quite averse to conflict, criticism and ridicule (etc.) and as such go to some lengths to avoid these things. I tend to hang on to negative experiences and can find myself replaying random events from random points in the past and cringing with only a slightly diminished reaction from what was felt at the time the event occurred.

I think it may have something to do with prior negative social experiences and susceptibility to reacting to such experiences, although there must be some determinants of such susceptibility. Maybe something to do with a feeling of competence/comfort in a relationship, as I tend to relax considerably (almost taking people for granted sometimes) once I know the 'rules' which apply to a particular relationship. I'm an INTP btw.

I think we all have to learn how to deal with rejection, one way or another. However, first we must realize and define what rejection is. I think the major problem is that in 'normal' development, a human will use society and current social settings as a mirror to establish identity. Before one can reject, rejection, one must reject the image, the reflection, the identity formed by the responses of Others to one's presence, both positive and negative responses.

If one rejects one's identity before any Other can, one can avoid any negative affect from what such Others do. The formation of identity can be a deep, continuous process, if one is patient enough to wait on the proper answer to the question, "Who Am I?", and not be satisfied with a superficial and shallow answer to that question determined by the feedback of Others to a mere image.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

I went with never (and shouldn't have) late last night. I was the first to vote .

As far as to the World Wide World out there, I never care. On the internet, I don't care. That would be stupid. Strangers pass me by and I don't care...or do I? I like that strangers are somewhat afraid to approach and ask me things based on my appearance if that counts (except for old ladies in grocery stores asking me to reach up for the loaf of bread on the top shelf. Why do grocery stores put old lady bread up there?).

I guess you have to care to some extent as to what those close around you think.

 

[NoID10ts]

I care way too much and it's probably one of the things I'd like to change most about myself. I think it's related to my unbelievably low self esteem. I still say and do things that I know won't make me liked, but I fret about it after (even with online exchanges). It's a sickness. I admire people who don't give a damn.

 

[TriflinThomas]

The only opinions I take to heart are my mom's and 2 friends, and it's only when it comes to major decisions. That's not to say I don't take into consideration what other people think, but I usually don't give a fuck. The way I see it is: I going to be the one living with my decisions, so I might as well do what I think is right.

 

[MichiganJFrog]

To be honest, yeah, I still do care. Gotta cut that shit out, I know.

I suppose part of the problem is that I think people's assessments of me are set in stone, when in reality most people probably don't even remember what they said about me the next day.

Another problem is that I think rejection equals death. It is probably more reasonable to believe that second, third, and fourth chances are possible. It may also be that other, possibly better, opportunities lie elsewhere.

A third problem is that I think, if one person decides I'm shit, soon enough, word will get around and eventually everyone will feel the same way. Like, "You'll never work in this town again," that kind of thing. I've had a lot of setbacks lately, so it takes a little extra effort to remind myself this isn't true.

Gotta admit I couldn't tell the difference between the third and fourth options in the poll. Chose the fourth one anyway. If I had been really honest, I would have said, "Always."

 

[INeedToPee]

i voted for always because i do always consider and stress over what people think of me. however, i do value logic highly and it will usually come first. i will not act based on what people might think of me without considering logic first.

 

[EmergingAlbert]

Gotta admit I couldn't tell the difference between the third and fourth options in the poll. Chose the fourth one anyway. If I had been really honest, I would have said, "Always."

The third is what I chose because there is a clear distinction between the people whose opinions of me I do care about and those whose I don't. As I said in my original post, I care what people I see on a regular basis think, but not those who don't. The fourth, on the other hand, is basically for those who care sometimes but don't care other times, but there's no order behind it. Sometimes they care, sometimes they don't...there's no specific person whose opinion they do or don't care about or any specific situation in which they care. It's just totally random, based on their mood perhaps.

 

[Etheri]

Sometimes they care, sometimes they don't...

Sometimes they're sober, sometimes they're drunk...

 

[joal0503]

I could care less about what certain people think about ME, at least in most of the superficial categories people use on a daily basis to judge others. However I do try to explore empathy a great deal, in fact Ive always held it as one of my strengths, being able to put myself in the shoes of others and try to figure out why they think the way they do...

when it comes down to it, i could give a fuck what you think about me and my appearance, going further i lose respect if you only use my appearance against me or as a judgement of my character... I dont really give a fuck about others apperance either, All that matters is what I can draw from your actual substance, so it only makes sense that i expect others to do the same with me (even though I know they dont bleh). The only time I really care about what somebody thinks about me, is when its in the middle of a debate and I just have to get in the last word hehehe, but in that case I think its moreso just be trying to be 'right' and get others to see the light. who knows.

 

[crippli]

I generally don't know what people think. And even if they tell me what they have been thinking, it will be a translation, so not quite accurate,so still wouldn't know.

But on the other side since one often think in direct relation to input, you have the power to dictate what the other is going to think. I consider this a responsibility, and probably know more what they think then I am aware off.

I think what I would care(not exclusively positive) most about was that I had less power to influence others minds. I think I mostly find it to be somewhat uncomfortable. I suppose I would find it more pleasing if many I encounter was less reactionary, and cared(love/hate) less. Then they would be more like me :P As I just read the "Time does not exist" thread, to have time move slower. I often feel I can not keep up. Instead of running, I crawl. Or to use a flower as a metaphor, to at some time blossom. That's also what I would like, so I would be like to be like them too. It's a proper paradox, or a labyrinth. So the conundrum is I don't know what I want or even can. Both care and not care more, at the same time?

 

[MichiganJFrog]

The third is what I chose because there is a clear distinction between the people whose opinions of me I do care about and those whose I don't. As I said in my original post, I care what people I see on a regular basis think, but not those who don't. The fourth, on the other hand, is basically for those who care sometimes but don't care other times, but there's no order behind it.

Ah, now I get you. Yes, there are some people whose opinions of me matter and some whose opinions don't. I think their opinions might actually matter if their assessments were accurate, and what they had to say could actually benefit me.

I have spent inordinate amounts of time worrying about what some people think, and I have gone to absurd lengths to manage their opinions.

Now that I think about it, if you always cared about other people's opinions of you, it seems to me you would never make a move without seeking someone else's permission first. If you never cared about other people's opinions of you, you would have no need for social connection of any kind.

 

[Tony3d]

My Ti cares whether or not my boss hates me or thinks I am a great worker, because that could make the difference between me getting good hours and assignments or being left with all the crap work.

My Ti cares whether the people I meet while networking like me or not, because if they don't, I may not get contacted when a very good oportunity comes up. If they like me, they will probably contact me even if I am not the most perfect for the job, but if they don't, even if my skillset is exactly what they need, I may not get a call.

My Ti cares whether girls like me or not, because through girls liking me I can eather meet more girls through being their friend or I can have sex with them.

My Ti cares whether the police officer that pulled my car over thinks I am a decent guy or not, because that could be the difference between getting away with a warning or getting a 500$ ticket.

My Ti cares a lot about what certain people think, because it is all part of my strategic advantage in life. Being a loner and having people think you are a creep is a definate strategic disadvantage in every way I can see.



Now, when it comes to me Fe, I honestly hold a deep love for the world from a distance, but on a personal level I couldn't really care less what individuals think of me, except for those extreamly close.

I care for the world on a telescopic level, but I care about what the world thinks of me only on a macro level.

 

[Jennywocky]

My Ti cares whether ....

I fully agree with the concept underlying your comments here about Ti... While there is an emotional component to caring (where you want someone to like or respect you just for its own sake), there is also a pragmatic or utilitarian reason to care. Namely you are ensuring the stability and success of your life by having others view you positively.

So it's important to be on good terms when you can; conflict is not just a personal drain on the emotions but can destabilize one's life and deplete resources unnecessarily.

 

[MichiganJFrog]

What kinds of things would make you take action regardless of likely criticism? I am thinking about getting involved in the gun control movement, even though I have friends and family who might very well shun or even disown me. I would hope they would respect me for having the courage of my own convictions, but right now I don't even care about that.

 

[kitroot]

What kinds of things would make you take action regardless of likely criticism?

I seem to react to what I perceive as ethical discrepancies although I find myself sounding holier-than-thou on certain occasions. In some cases discussions rapidly become too hypothetical for the other party to have any relevance, or otherwise I may be shown to have been overstating my case. Most commonly with an ENTJ unfortunately.. Does anyone else struggle with where to draw the line between avoiding conflict and standing up for what is right?

My Ti cares..

I suppose it may be tension between Ti and Fe, as Tony3d has described..

 

[redbaron]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulIOrQasR18

 

[Duxwing]

I seem to react to what I perceive as ethical discrepancies although I find myself sounding holier-than-thou on certain occasions. In some cases discussions rapidly become too hypothetical for the other party to have any relevance, or otherwise I may be shown to have been overstating my case. Most commonly with an ENTJ unfortunately.. Does anyone else struggle with where to draw the line between avoiding conflict and standing up for what is right?

If otherwise engaged, stand up for what is right provided that you see a reasonable chance of success and an acceptable burden of emotional pain for all involved parties. If you're worried about hurting their feelings or yours, then ask your self the following: "Are these feathers really so important as to be left unruffled despite [INSERT ETHICAL DISCREPANCY HERE]?". If you're out to fight wrongdoing, then consider only the potential danger to all parties, for you've a mission to fulfill.

I suppose it may be tension between Ti and Fe, as Tony3d has described..

I hope that that helps you to understand when to stand up and when to walk by.

-Duxwing

 

[FrostFern]

^^^

I think telling myself I don't want to step on people's toes is my cop-out for being a wuss. It's not the altruistic concern of hurting someone's feelings but the need to avoid tension that's really stopping me from speaking up. Of course there are some cases where it's better to let something slide. In other cases it's better to deal with the conflict early on if it's something that could continue to simmer and build if you do nothing.

 

[Roark]

I think inferior Fe is always at least in the back of the INTP's mind. Saying that you don't care, and truly not caring are two different things

 

[kvothe27]

I care more about what people in my fantasies think than what actual people think. It can be hard to tell the difference sometimes. We form conceptualizations of people and attempt to predict their behavior based on these conceptualizations. The problem is that my conceptualization of another person is almost never accurate. It's usually just fantasy. This is actually very harmful because I'm an anxious individual and my fantasies tend to match up with my emotional states. Given that my fantasies are often more real to me than reality, I often find myself in a hellish mental state in which everyone is ridiculing me and kicking me when I'm down. This happens so often that, when it actually happens in "real" life -- which is a rare experience -- I feel almost nothing due to this "preparation."

Mostly, how much I care about the supposed thoughts of other people is dependent upon how anxious I am. When I'm happy and calm, I don't care what other people think and generally want nothing to do with other people.

 

[Duxwing]

^^^

I think telling myself I don't want to step on people's toes is my cop-out for being a wuss. It's not the altruistic concern of hurting someone's feelings but the need to avoid tension that's really stopping me from speaking up. Of course there are some cases where it's better to let something slide. In other cases it's better to deal with the conflict early on if it's something that could continue to simmer and build if you do nothing.

Oh, right, the fear of tension. There's a way to side-step it, for a price: intellectualisation. Look upon the situation as a social experiment, and the tension ought to feel like it's sliding past you. The price of doing so, however, is that your emotional and social sensitivity will plummet. Use it only when you feel "cleared hot" on whatever feelings that you might, in your self-administered emotional anesthesia, completely, totally, and brutally crush.

-Duxwing

 

[Tinted Chaos]

I can relate to so many of the earlier post that it would be silly to quote all the ones that stood out.

When I voted I chose "depending on the person/ situation" but in reality it is "always".

I think this is because this is a Fe thing. A feeling that is always there at the back of my mind but not really ever taking over. (Except when I'm drunk )

Though most of the time I really don't care it does seem to matter when I find out what people do think about me and it is completely the reverse of what I think about myself...

I remember when an acquaintance told me that they admired that I could just brush everything off, when to me it felt like ever decision was life or death (this was in regards to a job that I still work at but am very un-suited to).

So, it does matter to me what people think of me. In particular when it comes to false perceptions. And guys.

 

[EmergingAlbert]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulIOrQasR18

You, my friend, are my hero. Words cannot explain how huge of a Jon Lajoie fan I am.

"I don't even give a fuck about not giving a fuck, so that means I do give a fuck..."

Absolute genius. My favorite thing about him is that his humor is both raunchy/obscene and witty/clever at the same time. I can't think of any comedian who does that successfully. Before I discovered Lajoie's comedy, I thought that raunchy humor and witty humor were mutually exclusive and highly preferred the latter.

 

[Wolf18]

kvothe27: I agree with you. When I'm anxious, I care more, and I tend to imagine people as more sinister than I'm sure they actually are. Overall, however, I don't really care at all what people think of me.

 

[ZpptyDooDah]

There may be varying degrees of how much we care what other's think. That based on who the other is. But I believe ultimately, we hope to have at least a small amount of affirmation from someone outside of our own heads. I truely don't think anybody wants everybody to think of them as stupid, fat , ugly, sloppy etc. etc. We all care to whatever small degree.