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can you be addicted to emotions?

Ghost1986

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weed and meth are chemicals that alter your brain and are addictive. according to science, emotions are also chemicals. so in theory you can become addicted to emotions the same you become addicted to drugs. is this correct?

i wounder this simply because i can suppress most of my emotions except anger and hatred. so is it possible that my brain is addicted to the chemicals that create those 2 emotions?

thoughts? insights?
 
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Addiction to love, sex or risk taking, sure. People become 'addicted' to extreme sports for the adrenaline that they evoke. It is possible for a person to become addicted to adrenaline or other chemicals related to emotions and obsessively seek them. You require emotions to induce these chemicals, thus emotions become a relevant factor of the process to achieve the state of chemicals desired. I have personally known people who were obsessed with experiencing desire and pleasure.

My only concern with this thread is how people will define 'addiction'. Are you separating the product of these chemicals (emotions) from the process to them (chemicals combined, etc)? Emotions are chemicals, essentially. Can you be addicted to these emotions without being addicted to the chemicals? The emotions would not exist without those chemicals.
 

Inappropriate Behavior

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My only concern with this thread is how people will define 'addiction'. Are you separating the product of these chemicals (emotions) from the process to them (chemicals combined, etc)? Emotions are chemicals, essentially. Can you be addicted to these emotions without being addicted to the chemicals? The emotions would not exist without those chemicals.

I don't think they can be seperated.

My question would be to ask if we would suffer the same physical withdrawls if these chemicals were to suddenly be shut off. Is the sadness of love lost the result of chemical withdrawls?
 

preilemus

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it could very well be possible. i used to not get angry about things for long periods of time; there were times when i wanted to stay mad because i knew i should, and also had a right to, but i could just never keep it up (except on one occasion where i deliberately forced myself to keep it up). this is how i used to be, but 6 months ago, something bad happened to me, and for some reason i have been able to sustain my anger and hate, even to this very day. i kept on wondering if maybe something had snapped
inside me that was allowing me to do it, but i guess its also very well possible that after a certain point i may have developed a neurological desire for said emotions, which could also be due to, what is my belief, that i have never experienced these emotions so intensely, or in such large quantities. ulthmately, idk for sure, as this is just my observation of myself. im also sorry for the double post, im using a psp to type this.
 
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ViS

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Anger comes with rationalising sadness. Fe always works in tandem with Ti when it comes to us. That means we're angry buggers.
 

wadlez

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weed and meth are chemicals that alter your brain and are addictive. according to science, emotions are also chemicals. so in theory you can become addicted to emotions the same you become addicted to drugs. is this correct?

i wounder this simply because i can suppress most of my emotions except anger and hatred. so is it possible that my brain is addicted to the chemicals that create those 2 emotions?

thoughts? insights?

All thoughts require chemicals (neurotransmitters) not just the emotional ones. So with that logic your brain is addicted to using any neuron from any part of the brain.

You do not have anger and hatred because your brains addicted to chemicals.

I think you'll really like this http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/addiction/drugs/mouse.html
Its a flash animation which explains specifically how each street drug effects the brain.

If you do enjoy this you should go to the rest of the tutorials the site has to offer, explains in great detail how neurons and addiction work, but is really easy to understand.
 

Sapphire Harp

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Dear Ghost,

I happen to know of a scientist who has been considering this question for a while. David Brin has an open letter on his website asking scientists of the relevant fields to consider studying emotional states as a form of addiction, particularly self-indignation. He feels a growing addiction to this state might be leading to a deepening on entrenched dogmas and a growing lack of communication and compromise in societies. One particular manifestation of this would be the dogmatic war between the liberals and conservatives of the United States.

A couple extracts to whet your appetite:

* * *

Consider studies of gambling. Researchers led by Dr. Hans Breiter of Massachusetts General Hospital examined with functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) which brain regions activate when volunteers won games of chance -- regions that overlapped with those responding to cocaine!

"Gambling produces a similar pattern of activity to cocaine in an addict," according to Breiter.

Moving along the spectrum toward activity that we consider more "normal" -- neuroscientists at Harvard have found a striking similarity between the brain-states of people trying to predict financial rewards (e.g., via the stock market) and the brains of cocaine and morphine users.

Along similar lines, researchers at Emory University monitored brain activity while asking staunch party members, from both left and right, to evaluate information that threatened their preferred candidate prior to the 2004 Presidential election. "We did not see any increased activation of the parts of the brain normally engaged during reasoning," said Drew Westen, Emory's director of clinical psychology. "Instead, a network of emotion circuits lit up... reaching biased conclusions by ignoring information that could not rationally be discounted. Significantly, activity spiked in circuits involved in reward, similar to what addicts experience when they get a fix," Westen explained.

How far can this spectrum be extended? All the way into realms of behavior -- and mental states -- that we label as wholesome? Rich Wilcox of the University of Texas says: "Recovery process in addiction is based to a great extent on cognitively mediated changes in brain chemistry of the frontal/prefrontal cortex system. Furthermore... there is even a surprising amount of literature cited in
PubMed suggesting that prayer also induces substantial changes in brain chemistry."

Clearly this spectrum of "addiction" includes reinforcement of behaviors that are utterly beneficial and that have important value to us, e.g., love of our children. I get a jolt every time I smell my kids' hair, for instance. The "Aw!" that many people give when then see a baby smile is accompanied by skin flushes and iris dilation, reflecting physiological pleasure. Similar jolts come to people (variously) from music, sex, exercise and the application of skill.

Although a lot of recent research has danced along the edges of this area, I find that the core topic appears to have been rather neglected. I'm talking about the way that countless millions of humans either habitually or volitionally pursue druglike reinforcement cycles -- either for pleasure or through cycles of withdrawal and insatiability that mimic addiction -- purely as a function of entering an addictive frame of mind.

* * *

We all know self-righteous people. (And, if we are honest, many of us will admit having wallowed in this state ourselves, either occasionally or in frequent rhythm.) It is a familiar and rather normal human condition, supported -- even promulgated -- by messages in mass media.

While there are many drawbacks, self-righteousness can also be heady, seductive, and even... well... addictive. Any truly honest person will admit that the state feels good. The pleasure of knowing, with subjective certainty, that you are right and your opponents are deeply, despicably wrong.

Sanctimony, or a sense of righteous outrage, can feel so intense and delicious that many people actively seek to return to it, again and again. Moreover, as Westin et.al. have found, this trait crosses all boundaries of ideology.

* * *

I don't know if it's an emotion per se, but I've found that many times I can immediately turn around by doing some kind of psychological self-exploration. Like picking up a copy of 'Psychology Today' and reading something that might be applicable in my life can quickly clear a bad mood. It is related to the hope of having a lasting and profound improvement in particular sections of my life.

However, hope is not an emotion, so I don't know how to directly connect this to the topic of emotions... But it is a particular state of mind which seems to give me an immediate reward for entering...

Also, don't forget to notice the links to related articles at the bottom! I haven't gotten to them yet, myself, but I will. I imagine they can expand this topic quite a bit.

 

echoplex

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I think so, and much like drug addiction, addiction to the chemicals related to emotions can be a progressive condition. Compulsive thrill seekers and gamblers come to mind as those whose need in terms of experience often increases over time, meaning they need a riskier experience over time in order to experience the same "high."

I think it could be said that the human experience is, in many ways, one big effort to "get high", and that much of what we experience is either good shit or a bad trip. I think even altruistic and spiritual experiences can be viewed within this context, since they often make us feel "good." Perhaps those who "abuse" their emotions just aren't getting high enough on life, so to speak. And maybe drug abusers are those who couldn't get high on experiences and/or emotions alone, so drugs became their last resort.

And then there are those who "find God" and drop their addictions, which in many ways becomes their new drug (not saying that's a bad thing though).
 

chocolate

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Hi Ghost. I think people can be addicted to emotions. That's probably why there are so many drama queens/kings out there.

I'm not sure you are addicted to anger (hatred maybe). I have read somewhere that anger is something like a more simple emotion, even psychopaths (people who have very little emotions) can feel anger and frustration, but nothing more. So perhaps it is just more accessible to you.

Re. anger: I also tend to feel anger in disproportionate percentages (not that I'm angry a lot, but I'm angry much more than I am other things). It seems I 'convert' a lot of emotions to anger because it feels more empowering. It's easier to tell myself "He makes me angry because he's so stupid" than to admit "He hurt me".
 

wadlez

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David brin is very creative and has written some good SF books. But this theory is kind of crazy. Usefull to put a different perspective on things but It doesnt really make sense.

If people are adicted to anger for example, then the reason they get angry is because they are addicted to it and the event which caused there anger would be coincidental.
If thats not the case, so events had to trigger anger, then being addicted to anger means you would deliberatly put yourself in situations where you were exposed to events which made you angry (lay rakes on you your lawn so you accidently step on them and make them hit you in the face, like sideshow bob on simpsons).
If the extreme were not the case, so you only experienced anger in moderation due to events you did not deliberatly set up, then you would no longer be addicted.

Not to mention being addicted to emotions is completly incongruent with normal peoples functioning in reality,evolution and makes humans completly unique to all other animals.

 

echoplex

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If people are adicted to anger for example, then the reason they get angry is because they are addicted to it and the event which caused there anger would be coincidental.
If thats not the case, so events had to trigger anger, then being addicted to anger means you would deliberatly put yourself in situations where you were exposed to events which made you angry (lay rakes on you your lawn so you accidently step on them and make them hit you in the face, like sideshow bob on simpsons).
If the extreme were not the case, so you only experienced anger in moderation due to events you did not deliberatly set up, then you would no longer be addicted.

Not to mention being addicted to emotions is completly incongruent with normal peoples functioning in reality,evolution and makes humans completly unique to all other animals.

It may not be described as "normal", but I see it alot, especially in the form of taking offense. Many people like to behave as if they are offended at something, and seek out opportunities to become offended. I often wonder just how different these people are from actors and actresses. Perhaps it's a side effect of emotional boredom. We play sports to act out hunting instincts. Perhaps we play "emotions" to let out those instincts too.
 

wadlez

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Many people like to behave as if they are offended at something, and seek out opportunities to become offended. I often wonder just how different these people are from actors and actresses. Perhaps it's a side effect of emotional boredom. We play sports to act out hunting instincts. Perhaps we play "emotions" to let out those instincts too.

Yeah I think that people who seek out opportunities to be offended (which i've seen aswell) are doing it different reasons, most probably doing it for social reasons or for attention.
 

Sapphire Harp

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Yeah I think that people who seek out opportunities to be offended (which i've seen aswell) are doing it different reasons, most probably doing it for social reasons or for attention.
Perhaps the 'addiction' is to the feeling they get when they publicly express anger? The attention it brings them?

I don't think it is addiction so much... I think the need for certain emotional states reaches the level of habit far more often than the level of addiction... But if you consider people like Bill O'Reilly, perhaps it does? He's one who seems to respond with anger and indignation whenever possible.

Mostly I think it's a situation where people fall back on the emotions they're most used to, or bring them out in situations where they don't really apply.

I think it's interesting to think about love as the case example of emotional addiction - and it uses similar terminology in withdrawals when a couple parts. The moments they are together are an emotional high, and couples can easily become dependent upon each other.
 

Da Blob

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Well fart, looks like I have to come out of my barrel to help with this thread. I'm addiction specialist amongst other things. Anger is an extremely addictive behavior for a number of reasons, one of which is because of the wonderful cocktail of chemicals released into the bloodstream by a variety of glands. However, there are other reasons for anger to be addictive, especially for people who have trouble dealing with emotions. There is a wide range of emotions that we have not been trained to deal with as they appear in life. Frustration, grief, disappointment, betrayal etc. are often difficult to experience or to express. However, we have learned how to deal with and express anger, even if not in a socially acceptable manner, so other emotions have a way of being converted to anger just as a stress relief mechanism. If nothing else, we will get angry at ourselves for feeling these difficult to deal with emotions. The problem with anger is that it requires a target to vent upon and unfortunately it is often innocent humans that become the targets for aggressive expression of anger. These victims of of Anger often get angry themselves at the unfairness of the whole situation and go off seeking a target to vent their own newly acquired anger upon and the cycle begins a new, the comparison to anger as being a fire is a pretty apt analogy.
As far as seeking offense that is a psychological disorder known as "victim's Stance" Unfortunately it is one of the byproducts of our current educational system, among other factors. The 'learned helplessness' that typifies a Victim's Stance is a cycle of emotional rewards for assuming that role in society as a more or less permanent role in society.
As far as addiction in general, we are born addicts. We are addicted to oxygen, food, shelter etc.. Obviously it is difficult to see how being chemically addicted to those things needed for survival can be viewed as a bad thing and of course it is not. However, the neurological mechanisms responsible for our addiction to the things necessary for life, are easily hijacked by behaviors and substances that we do not need in life. For those of the forum who have been around for a while, you know I've 'preached' on a number of occasions on the 'evils' of the reptilian mind, that is because it is this primitive portion of the brain that can be held responsible for addiction, as well as other self-destructive behaviors. The reptilian brain controls what is known as the dopamine loop. Dopamine is produced in a small region of the brain that is controlled by the amygdala, which in turn is controlled by the reptilian brain. The problem is that this region will only produce a certain amount of dopamine in an individual's entire lifetime and some drugs release up to 100 times the normal amount of dopamine into a person's bloodstream. As the dopamine becomes depleted it takes higher and higher doses to achieve the same 'high' and eventually the dopamine supply becomes completely exhausted and even if individual take insane amounts of a drug they simply can not get high...
This negative cycle plays out to a certain extent in simple behaviors as well. We do certain things, because we are rewarded by the reptilian brain with a shot of dopamine, so we repeat the behavior time and time again. However, the dopamine we become a bit tolerant to, so it takes increased amounts for us to achieve the same 'high', so we modify the same behavior in some way to increase the "thrill of it all" again. INTPians may be very fortunate in this regard, I do not think that we fall into this trap nearly as often as the SF types...

Any Questions?
 

Sapphire Harp

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Dopamine is produced in a small region of the brain that is controlled by the amygdala, which in turn is controlled by the reptilian brain. The problem is that this region will only produce a certain amount of dopamine in an individual's entire lifetime and some drugs release up to 100 times the normal amount of dopamine into a person's bloodstream. As the dopamine becomes depleted it takes higher and higher doses to achieve the same 'high' and eventually the dopamine supply becomes completely exhausted and even if individual take insane amounts of a drug they simply can not get high...

Let me ask a few questions here to see if I understand this detail right...

The amount of dopamine produce in one's lifetime is finite and the total will be the exact same amount regardless of the individual's behavior in life? What varies is how much how often will be released? So, if much is released quickly, it will be days or weeks before a similar experience could be repeated? Also, is there a limit to how much is stored and hence a limit of how intense an experience could be?
 

Da Blob

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Let me ask a few questions here to see if I understand this detail right...

The amount of dopamine produce in one's lifetime is finite and the total will be the exact same amount regardless of the individual's behavior in life? What varies is how much how often will be released? So, if much is released quickly, it will be days or weeks before a similar experience could be repeated? Also, is there a limit to how much is stored and hence a limit of how intense an experience could be?

The supply of dopamine is finite, however, there is a tremendous variation between individuals when it comes to depletion rates and initial 'supply'. The general trend is for the supply to dwindle as one ages, and I do not know if there have been any studies as to the 'best' way to spend one's dopamine supply over a lifetime, I think it is a use it or lose it scenario though. (I have a few ideas...) There is a temporal element involved, but usually a matter of minutes to recharge, in the case of drug use or some other method that period of 'recharging' can be extended. For I know there are limits to just how high one can get smoking marijuana etc. and one has to wait quite a while to experience that intial "Rush" again.
There is a limited capacity for regeneration of the dopamine -producing neurons, so that even recovering addicts can regain a portion of the natural reward system, eventually.
I would hesitate to place a limit on intensity, all things being relative,, but there are limits to how much is available at any given moment, again some drug-induced highs are supposedly brought by a 100 fold increase of the release of dopamine... A quite powerful motivation to do the drug again, despite the self-destruction involved...
 

wadlez

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If it is produced how can there be a finite supply?
Do you mean released?

As the dopamine becomes depleted it takes higher and higher doses to achieve the same 'high' and eventually the dopamine supply becomes completely exhausted and even if individual take insane amounts of a drug they simply can not get high..

Another quesiton if you dont mind
I've read that people cannot get the same high due to the brain destroying the dopamine receivers on neurons to reduce the amount of action potentials so they dont fire too much and over stimulate.
This obviously contradicts the dopamine levels theory
 

Da Blob

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If it is produced how can there be a finite supply?
Do you mean released?



Another quesiton if you dont mind
I've read that people cannot get the same high due to the brain destroying the dopamine receivers on neurons to reduce the amount of action potentials so they dont fire too much and over stimulate.
This obviously contradicts the dopamine levels theory


The cells that produce dopamine are relatively few and they die off naturally and are not replaced. However, the rate of die off is effected by a number of factors. I would not be surprise to find that there are several ways to regulate pleasure - at the level of production and the level of consumption. Who knows, it may be that the dopamine receptors themselves have a very short 'shelf life', perhaps merely a single firing is all a receptor is capable of. I find it difficult to believe that a individual brain cell is precognitive and eliminates receptors in anticipation of overstimulation.

EDIT: I have seen MRI images of the dopamine-producing region of an addict's brain. It could be described as a vacuum when compared to a 'normal' brain...
http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/addiction/addiction_article1.shtml
The study you cited had to do more with the 'craving' aspect of addiction than the cells of the 'reward center' itself...

BTW from that article
"In the meantime, Leshner sees a continued role for behavioral treatments of addiction. Approaches that count on people's ability to resist craving, like that of Alcoholics Anonymous, are still the most successful, many studies have found. "If addiction means the brain has changed, then the task is to change the brain back to normal," Leshner said. "But that doesn't mean treatments have to be biological. Behavioral treatments can change the brain, too."
 

wadlez

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Yes i see

I find it difficult to believe that a individual brain cell is precognitive and eliminates receptors in anticipation of overstimulation.

It doesnt have to be precognitive. When a neuron is being stimulated and firing it will remove receptors to slow down the rate of firing if it is being overstimulated
 

Da Blob

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Yes i see

It doesnt have to be precognitive. When a neuron is being stimulated and firing it will remove receptors to slow down the rate of firing if it is being overstimulated
perhaps, I am not an expert in this, however, the sodium pump is a generic governor of firing rates, a firing rate can never exceed the 'pump's' ability to recharge the axon...(?)
 

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That's a four year old thread necro! Impressive! :rip:(don't worry you get prizes for doing it here)
 
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