Bronto's ban

[Black Rose]

@nanook

I think you are right. I do feel superior at times. I think it is because I feel the need for control. I feel like I need to take control because otherwise people who I think are wrong will take control and that is bad because it means I get hurt by them. People who are wrong and in control have hurt me in the past. People who are wrong and in control damaged and ruin everything for others and for me. I can't help think that everytime I encounter a person that is not understanding that more damage will happen to me. I am abandoned. I deal with it by repression. I deal with it by looking at everything that is unfair and why it is wrong. I do have problems with empathy in real time. Because I can't tell people what I think because then they will hate me. I can't express my feeling either. I can't get angry, I can't cry, I can't be open with anyone. My life revolves around rejection. It does matter if someone is wrong but of negative consequences. It matters if I can do something about correcting misunderstandings because I think I am the only responsible person in most situations. It could be I have a superiority complex but would that be because I don't see others as responsible adults that know what the right thing to do is? Responsible adults don't exist so I have to solve everything myself. People act like there are no consequences. I don't know what to do most of the time so I do nothing. I don't say anything around the wrong people. Everything I say could end up hurting me. But around the people who matter, the people that I am forced to be around, I had to say nothing and I had to do nothing or else: "consequences". I wish my mom was and adult, she told me today she reads the bible but can't understand it. She can't understand but she likes animals and pets and singing songs. Literally she is like a child and she never talked to me and no one ever talked to me or asked what I was doing. She took us to bible camp and I was serious about trying to understand. I want to understand stuff and she does not care. She just wants to be in heaven and sing songs and play with animals. She doesn't know anything about what I am interested in, I ask "do you understand" and she says "no" but in a cute innocent way. She said we were rotten children when we misbehaved. My aunt gets loans because she doesn't understand we are poor and can't afford expensive items. She thinks money grows on trees. When I thought the economy would collapse in 2009 I told her she should buy gold with her retirement money. She took the $30,000 from her teacher pension and bought random things and the money was all gone in 30 days. It was all gone. And later she got loans because we had no food. Life really sucks and it is because people don't want to understand anything about real life. They think they we will go to heaven when Jesus returns and all problems will be solved. Every time things get bad my mom says please Jesus come back. They don't care. They are children. They are 59 and 69. I am the only adult and I don't know what to do about them. Jesus won't solve their problems and they don't believe me.

 

[Grayman]

I am sorry you have to go through this Amnikitty. My mother in law is mentally equivalent to your mother. Years of alcohol and drugs are large contributors to her condition, though. Unfortunately it isn't something that can be resolved. Things certainly got worse before they got better. Several arrests and her mother hearing voices and claiming that god spoke to her through the tv. She went out back to the creek behind someones house throwing shoes in the creek from her plastic garbage bag until the residence called the police on her. There were several attempts of suicide and drinking every night ,manic depressive ups and downs etc...

For my wife the only resolution was to separate herself from her mother and to realize that she has to live her own life. This can be very difficult. We establish a lot of loyalty toward our parents and in many ways we feel responsible for what happens to them. We want our family to be successful and to heal and to be better people.

My wife made her own life and found her own happiness and made her own family. She is now in a place where people can grow and interact with my wife in healthy ways so that everyone can benefit. The self destructive hole of her past benefited no one.

Her mother did finally resolve her alcohol/drug issues but the mental damage is done. They were able to reestablish connection but unfortunately their relationship will never be the same.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

This thread is severely derailed and I demand the mods fix it.

 

[Grayman]

This thread is severely derailed and I demand the mods fix it.

What is the ransom?

 

[TheScornedReflex]

The ransom is now 7

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

This thread is severely derailed and I demand the mods fix it.

You can't make demands of the mods! Those power-tripping bastards will have you banned in a second!

 

[TheScornedReflex]

I can demand what I want from those fucking clueless fool!

(I seriously need to look up what it was bronto said)

 

[Auburn]

This thread is severely derailed and I demand the mods fix it.

Fixing it would mean closing it. :P

Which I'd estimate to happen in about 12 more posts, as the obligatory allowance period of mourning has passed...


...and we're left with yet another flailing fish of a thread.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

(I seriously need to look up what it was bronto said)

I believe it was "clueless fool"

 

[TheScornedReflex]

Thank you, bae lol

 

[The Gopher]

I'll bet another 12 hours. It's always good to end a banning thread on a positive note.

 

[TheManBeyond]

BRONTO'S SOUL WON'T REST WITHOUT BLOOD

 

[nanook]

This thread is severely derailed and I demand the mods fix it.

yes, creative minds make the best out of every situation and the cult of ISXJ won't tolerate any of that novelty. everything must conform to expectations, otherwise life and evolution would clearly get out of hand, soon we'd run around with bald heads communicating telepathically.

[BIMG]https://i.imgur.com/C9VokyP.jpg[/BIMG]

 

[nanook]

It could be I have a superiority complex but would that be because I don't see others as responsible adults that know what the right thing to do is?

Responsible adults don't exist so I have to solve everything myself.
People act like there are no consequences.

I don't know what to do most of the time so I do nothing.

It's true, responsibility does not exist, evolution is trial and error out of hand, meaning there is no higher standard for it to hold on to. thus being "grown up" is just an illusion of self-righteousness through which people hope to feel like they are in a state of final/ultimate control or to be respected as if they were. evolution is an eternal child.

your mother sounds like she is INFJ or ISFJ. these are the types that can read the bible or poetry (RUMI, etc) without a need for "understanding" and still feel that they get something out of it. Tori Amos likes animals and singing.

She said we were rotten children when we misbehaved.

this is also simple Je language. "you are your situational attitude"

 

[Rook]

I'll bet another 12 hours. It's always good to end a banning thread on a positive note.

 

[Seteleechete]

I never have understood why bans actually work here. Seems like a simple matter to use a VPN(I am sure there are some that work against their IP detection system) and keep creating new accounts. That the community would ostracize you also seems like a moot issue, there is always a sizeable population disagreeing with a ban.

 

[Jennywocky]

I never have understood why bans actually work here. Seems like a simple matter to use a VPN(I am sure there are some that work against their IP detection system) and keep creating new accounts. That the community would ostracize you also seems like a moot issue, there is always a sizeable population disagreeing with a ban.

Sure. There are ways around everything. You can TOR in / use proxies as well, it's common knowledge.

It would just be hard to maintain a coherent identity via username, if you keep getting banned every 20-30 posts since if you keep posting the same and/or revealing your identity, you end up banned.

(And if you don't reveal your identity and you change your posting style so it's unrecognizable so that it no longer conforms to what got you banned, then I suppose that's a win/win because you're still here but the behavior has been curbed. *shrug*)

 

[Seteleechete]

Just maintain your identity in the signature and keep making a new account for every post if needed.

 

[Jennywocky]

Lolz. Yeah, that would get old for everyone.
A war of attrition, so to speak.

[429 accounts later...]

 

[Seteleechete]

Lolz. Yeah, that would get old for everyone.
A war of attrition, so to speak.

[429 accounts later...]

Idk, it sounds fun to me.

 

[Jennywocky]

1 dupe already down yesterday, 428 to go!

 

[redbaron]

Just maintain your identity in the signature and keep making a new account for every post if needed.

Yeah because making 429 e-mail accounts would be lots of fun!

 

[The Gopher]

Yeah because making 429 e-mail accounts would be lots of fun!

Yeah because it's not like you can create a proxy email connected to one main address with a single click of a button.

Or less sophisticated if you only need it for one use this. www.fakemailgenerator.com/

 

[redbaron]

I'm fairly sure you need to go to your actual e-mail and activate an account here. So it wouldn't work. I might be wrong but I don't think it's a case of:

> enter bullshit details
> congratulations on your account, you may now post

 

[The Gopher]

Which would show up in either the fake generator... or in your main email with the one click function I mentioned before.

To be clearer with the fake email you still get emails to the webpage. With the proxy email system all emails are sent to your main email which could be banned but it won't matter for the clicking link requirement.

 

[redbaron]

From what I know most forums have a setting where you have to approve accounts before they can post. It was done here temporarily when someone was spamming the forum with accounts in the past. They managed to make like 4 before it happened.

 

[The Gopher]

Well sure... but you only make one at a time. I'm not sure what you are trying to say is prevented.

 

[redbaron]

I'm saying that there's no feasible way of making 400+ accounts and spamming the forum that doesn't take an absurd amount of time.

But last I heard Bronto was living in his parent's garage so if anyone could manage it, it'd be him.

 

[redbaron]

Anyway I forget what I actually came in this thread to say but at least I came in this thread and I'll never forget the feeling of debating the finer points of how to make lots of fake accounts on a forum and why no non-deranged human being would do it.

 

[The Gopher]

Well not at once. But over a year getting banned I'm sure you could get up to 400. You only make one per day at most and that's if you get banned everyday. Now if you want to argue the IP aspect then sure it's much more difficult. However the email and sign up aspect is the easiest part. What I said was making 429 emails can literally take 429 seconds so that's not the hard part.

 

[Seteleechete]

Who said anything about spamming the forum? You just create an account when you have something you want to post. You can use the 30 or so seconds that would take(after you got a system set up) to write up a draft.

 

[redbaron]

I'm pretty it wouldn't take long for the mods to figure out that stupidrandomshit@stupidrandomshit was the same dickhead. If we assume that the moderators are actual potatos (not outside the realm of possibility) then yeah it can work.

And you still have to go through the register form and so on and so forth, entering details.

It took the mods all of about 30 seconds to ban my 'Slowpoke' account when I logged in from my phone.

EDIT: can't even find Slowpoke on the members list :'(

 

[Seteleechete]

Well that's why it sounds fun. The mods can keep figuring out new ways to keep you out and you new ways to get in XD. Also it would be fairly easy to find a dupe from the same IP. There are ways to make registering(Inc. email and IP) efficient.

 

[redbaron]

Slowpoke still made the greatest post in the history of INTPf though.

 

[The Gopher]

Well exactly that's why you use a sophisticated proxy email service that looks no different from normal ones. Basically all I'm saying is... almost the entire process could be automated and the rest could be done in the time it takes to make one post. The only reason I'm arguing this point is I've spent hours talking to people who seem to think that security exists because they want it to and I need to take my frustration out on someone.

Besides after 400 attempts they would get pretty good at it. The real thing preventing this is people not having autism.

 

[redbaron]

Not really because the forum probably has an automated process that filters dumb shit out automatically without mod input - they just clean up loose ends. Hence why we get 1 spambot a week instead of 187.

It's really more that the clever idea is actually not clever it's just dumb and no one's gonna enjoy spend that amount of time doing a dumb thing. It's not even a thing that ends in some interesting outcome it's just dumb.

Anyway if someone wants to try it so we can just establish that I'm right here like I always am that'd be great.

 

[Cherry Cola]

brontos behavior was only remotely similar to these two patterns. i won't discuss his maturity. but his theory of mind was surely not absolutely complete but it was not wrong either.

his argument "architect is being a fool/fooling himself" was factually sound.

when architect claims to know enough about lsd to judge it, even though he has not tried it, he is literally lying to himself. it's not that he is too stupid to realize that personal experience is relevant in this matter. this is obvious to any half way rational person. he is not like a stupid christian who has no rational bone in his body.

he is not like your brother either, who can't imagine those most complex political circumstances that he has never even heard off, that only you have researched - even though you expect him to be capable of such an imagination, which you consider, by mistake, to be as easy to come by as the imagination that 'he might be wrong'.

architect is just someone who rationalizes something scary but important as being unimportant, so as to defend a sense of superiority, roughly as in: "i know it all, i'm a grown up and accomplished expert, i haven't missed out on anything important in life, this lsd is surely just more confusion for confused punks, the rational mind is the pinnacle of human evolution, turning one's life around in order to get rich is the hallmark of an open mind, a transrational mind does not exist, all spirituality is psychotic nonsense and does more harm than good". architect is basically being sigmund freud incarnated into the wrong century.

btw: nobody has spontaneous and flawless theory of mind. but people who tick alike are more likely to make the right assumptions about the motives of others in mundane situations such as when someone is being sad - "his football team must have lost a game!" - many people are entirely unconcious of neuroticism and think nothing of a stupid joke, so they are happy to assume that another person is saying something for "no reason at all", even when their reason is actually a deeply neurotic one.

that is how social integration works for neurotypicals. being like minded and equally superficially so. but whenever conflicts arise, it's obvious that they don't have accurate theory of mind either. much less than we do, all of us. i'm always amazed at the many egocentric points of view on facebook.

so i don't feel as bad about my own theory of mind, with it's flaws, it's tendency to overthink something, or it's tendency to "pessimism" as grayman defined it - that is: seeing the worst in people, because you were raised by the worst.

i know that no ordinary theory of mind in the world could compensate for the fact, that i tick differently. and my integral level of vision logic can't do it either. i'm not disconnected, because i lack an important social ability. i'm not that "psychopath" who misses a piece in his frontal lobe. i'm just different. and part of that may be my type, part of it may be my disorders. it's much easier to accept a disorder that could be sorted out with some therapy (if only competent therapists would exist) than to accept a complete lack of a fundamental feature such as empathy or intelligence.

so i don't always get as mad at other's who fail to form accurate theory of mind or good intelligence any more. i don't always call them psychopath anymore. i've even been known to say some really positive integrative things about psychopaths.

but i am still hating on narcissists. those who's theory of mind is flawed in a very childish self serving manner. because narcissism is a mirror of regular egocentricity and i am egocentric and i think that means i am not good enough. i ought to be at least spiritually awake, to deserve the attention of anyone, a place in the world. egocentricity is not a mere disorder either, something that could be sorted out, it's a lack, a failure to be complete, to be inclusive of OTHER, to be god. it will always be sour grapes with you, son, until you come right with jesus!


i reserve the right to be wrong. i mean how is perception even different from projection? sure, projection is motivated by repression and one does not recognize himself in what one is seeing, when it is repressed from the persona. but aside from the motivation and the repression. you see the world as you are, don't you? even if i accept myself fully, i still see you guys like i know how to see myself - i just put the pieces together differently and after that i don't really see myself in the picture anymore, though i did, in the process. and i applause architect's support of free speech: "I'm libertarian and will fight for the rights of people to do this to themselves, while simultaneously disagreeing with it." we are free to be wrong! that's the kind of respect i hope to find on a message board.

Nice post man good points

 

[Seteleechete]

Thing is, as an occasional poster rather than a spambot I don't need to automatize the entire process, just most of it. And I don't see doing something like that to keep access to a community I enjoy interacting with as a dumb thing. It would be different if the entire community hated me instead of parts of it(including the mods).

 

[redbaron]

He didn't get banned for calling Architect a clueless fool though, he got banned for annoying Fukyo.

I don't know why people are pretending that the thing he was banned for was calling Architect a clueless fool as opposed to the fact that he didn't agree that calling Architect a clueless fool was some totally unwarranted and heinous act.

He's probably been a turd in the past so the moderator's annoy-o-meters were off the charts, but he still got banned for annoying moderators. Don't get me wrong I don't actually care, just calling the ban for what it is: inconsistent with stated goals of keeping forum discussion 'good' (because other people would also be banned) and the result of a moderator's personal annoyance.

 

[Jennywocky]

Not really because the forum probably has an automated process that filters dumb shit out automatically without mod input - they just clean up loose ends. Hence why we get 1 spambot a week instead of 187.

It's really more that the clever idea is actually not clever it's just dumb and no one's gonna enjoy spend that amount of time doing a dumb thing. It's not even a thing that ends in some interesting outcome it's just dumb.

Anyway if someone wants to try it so we can just establish that I'm right here like I always am that'd be great.

Someone help me wagon Slowpoke here, he needs a good lynching.

 

[redbaron]

Haha mafia jokes!!!!!!!!!! xD!!!!!!!! Slowpoke is needed more than ever right now.

#FreeSlowpoke

 

[Jennywocky]

Haha mafia jokes!!!!!!!!!!

Slowpoke is needed more than ever right now.

if you had a smidgen of creativity, his name would have be sllllooowwwpooooke

 

[redbaron]

Yeah too bad I traded in my creativity for a sense of humour instead.

 

[Grayman]

He didn't get banned for calling Architect a clueless fool though, he got banned for annoying Fukyo.

I don't know why people are pretending that the thing he was banned for was calling Architect a clueless fool as opposed to the fact that he didn't agree that calling Architect a clueless fool was some totally unwarranted and heinous act.

He's probably been a turd in the past so the moderator's annoy-o-meters were off the charts, but he still got banned for annoying moderators. Don't get me wrong I don't actually care, just calling the ban for what it is: inconsistent with stated goals of keeping forum discussion 'good' (because other people would also be banned) and the result of a moderator's personal annoyance.

Another thing they dont ban you for is making the same annoying points over and over again every time someone gets banned. Oooohhhh, they didn't ban the people on my hate list!? The mods arr being illogical/inconsistent! *tears *crying

One of the main rules is that the mods dont silence free speech. Banning people because you think their posts are shit due to content borders on fucking with that rule. It's a tough balance.

 

[The Gopher]

I honestly think if the mods were being consistent RB would be permabanned. Now RB is great off forum but he's no better or worse than Bronto on the forum. (Keep in mind I think both shouldn't be banned I'm not arguing for the banning of RB. Don't ban RB pls we won't have enough mafia members.)

That said on the other topic I wish I could change the goal posts of arguments to always be right. I can't decide if it's special pleading or a straw man... I know there is a fallacy somewhere...

 

[Grayman]

I honestly think if the mods were being consistent RB would be permabanned.

He has been acting responsibly more recently and staying on their good side. You cannot ban someone who is suddenly doing it right.

It's like punishing good behavior.

 

[The Gopher]

Hmm yeah true... I haven't been on the forum much I just hear from the people he drives away.

 

[Grayman]

Hmm yeah true... I haven't been on the forum much I just hear from the people he drives away.

Anyone can see that he was doing it on purpose which is why I speculate that the mods 1) wanted those people gone anyways and didn't have enough reason to give the populace for banning them. Rb did them a service
2) it's a buddy system
3) rb is more skilled at pulling their strings than people know

Probably a little of all three

Edit: Mostly he knows how hard to push without falling on his face. Which is what I refer to pulling the mods strings.

 

[Kuu]

If you can manipulate the mods you can get away with murder.

It's cute that some people think we're so easily manipulated that a user claiming to feel victimized would instantly result in ban. I know some peeps have a very low concept of us, but jeez...

Most people have no idea of the conversations that go on in the mod box, of the actual efforts of the mod team, nor of the full account of our successes and blunders. Not even former mods know all the long and ancient threads of the spiderweb that lay in the secret corners of the castle, and they rather choose to flee than be caught in its maddening embrace. Such is its darkness and terror.

"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you."

Also, I laugh at any fool that would try to evade bans with the use of disposable email services. Such a thing is ridiculously easy to counter.

But seriously, he was banned for being himself? That's a bullshit excuse.

If his entire personality consisted of being needlessly hostile to people, then yes, he was banned for being himself. Do you think that's the full extent of his personality?

I don't know why people are pretending that the thing he was banned for was calling Architect a clueless fool as opposed to the fact that he didn't agree that calling Architect a clueless fool was some totally unwarranted and heinous act.

He's probably been a turd in the past so the moderator's annoy-o-meters were off the charts, but he still got banned for annoying moderators.

Almost, but not quite. His agreement or lack thereof was irrelevant. He knew that if we took notice of it, his comment would be judged negatively by us, since we've made it clear many times that such comments are unacceptable, and he knew our collective patience was at a breaking point. He could have pursued other courses of action in his communications, while still disagreeing with all sorts of things, but chose not to. A shame.

inconsistent with stated goals of keeping forum discussion 'good' (because other people would also be banned) and the result of a moderator's personal annoyance.

Other people are also subject to moderation, there's about 5 people being dealt with various degrees of efficacy. As you know, a lot of that happens through PM, so just because there's no public activity, doesn't mean we aren't doing anything about other matters. The vast majority of cases are discussed before any severe action is taken, and consensus is commonly sought even if not strictly required. Moderators have been removed from the team due to acting out of personal annoyance.

If anyone cares, here's a free, vagueish and anonymous rundown of the moderation activity last few months. Let the wild speculation begin! (Actually no, such speculation will be removed, because it leads nowhere good. Keep it to yourselves peeps.):


Person A got carried away, as sometimes happens, and got temp banned, after which agreement of guilt and acceptance of the sentence was expressed. Not a primary concern.

Persons B and C engage in periodic group flamings and witch hunts. B's participation on the forum is quite sporadic, but the attacks tend to be vicious, so a position high in the permaban list is warranted. No diplomacy has been attempted since last temp ban, unlikely to be receptive considering past experience. C, of more frequent and quality participation has been engaged with diplomacy with good results so far.

Person D has become active again after a period of absence and is being closely monitored. Threshold for permaban is low due to past crimes, but conversations indicate recurrence might be unlikely. Not a primary concern but still on permaban list.

Person E responded quite positively to initial diplomacy, but such success has reached a plateau. Recurrence will lead to escalation of temporary bans. Top priority on ban list. Will adapt or die.

Person F is considered a minor nuisance by some, but no crimes of worth have ever been recorded iirc. Not really subject to moderation, just in need of some additional neurons.

There's also the usual monitoring of a handful of suspicious users that might be sockpuppets of present members, ban evaders or troll sleeper accounts.


These efforts in increased diplomacy were actually the result of popular complaints of moderation. Hadoblado should be given most of the credit for the footwork itself. We do listen to what people say, and do appreciate your interest in improving moderation RB. I highly respect your efforts in trying to keep us accountable and consistent, and doing so in a mostly calm manner in spite of our disagreements.

But the people that whine when bannings have been made, when they not once expressed any suggestion, report, or request to the moderation team (and actually cheered on the behaviour we clearly tried to stop), those who, when we ban who they like they complain about excessive moderation and not giving chances (after many were given), but when we don't ban who they hate because we're trying not to be excessive they raise a ruckus about incompetence. The stench of hypocrisy is revolting. I have little respect for those.

We "don't listen to you" if you don't speak to us. And by speak I do not mean expletives, angry rants and baseless accusations, like the recently deceased...

 

[420MuNkEy]

Bronto got banned because he kept stepping on the toes of oversensitive pussies who couldn't figure out how to use the ignore function - plain and simple.

The bans thread is replete with examples of people being banned for the same or similar reasons. All of the most interesting people have been pruned from this forum over time, leaving only the emotionally fragile and the (largely) silent.

Given that there's not even a sysadmin for this forum and the staff is a bunch of vaginas hell-bent on ruining the site, it'd be nice if someone made another intpf where people were allowed at least as much freedom in their speech as they'd have on restrictive platforms like Facebook