Breaking Bad

[Reluctantly]

Originally, I saw it as Skyler wanting to defend herself from Walt, who showed that he will manipulate people to get them to do what he wanted them to.

But in defending herself, Skyler took things out of proportion and made things worse than they should have been, getting hysterical and using emotional manipulation to create some of the problems herself that she feared Walt would create (and never quite realizing it either). I guess what bugged me about that was that she thought she could use emotional manipulation and still take the moral high ground, not realizing the contradiction. So Walt and Skyler both bothered me for similar, but different reasons. But when I look at them from a Jungian perspective, I can recognize one as having an Fe orientation and the other as Te-oriented, types that naturally aim to influence people in different ways and I immediately understand why they bothered me. Though I'm sure some people here won't be bothered by that, instead appreciating the positives or usefulness of how they think.

 

[Jennywocky]

Originally, I saw it as Skyler wanting to defend herself from Walt, who showed that he will manipulate people to get them to do what he wanted them to.

But in defending herself, Skyler took things out of proportion and made things worse than they should have been, getting hysterical and using emotional manipulation to create some of the problems herself that she feared Walt would create (and never quite realizing it either). I guess what bugged me about that was that she thought she could use emotional manipulation and still take the moral high ground, not realizing the contradiction. So Walt and Skyler both bothered me for similar, but different reasons. But when I look at them from a Jungian perspective, I can recognize one as having an Fe orientation and the other as Te-oriented, types that naturally aim to influence people in different ways and I immediately understand why they bothered me. Though I'm sure some people here won't be bothered by that, instead appreciating the positives or usefulness of how they think.

Yeah, they were both problematic and in a sense suited for each other (in terms of strong personalities) yet it also led them into some very blunt confrontations. I could typically see why both did what they did, but i wouldn't approach things the way they did.

 

[NormannTheDoorman]

I heard it's basically the Unabomber + meth.

 

[TimeAsylums]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krQHQvtIr6w#t=87

I rather like Epic Rap Battles of History

 

[Brontosaurie]

walt - ISTJ
jesse - ESFP
(skinny pete - ISTP)
(badger - ESTP)
(the dude walt has to kill in the basement - ENFP)
(jane - ISFP)
((jane's dad - ESTJ))
(tuco - ESTP)
skyler - ESFJ
(walt jr - ESTJ)
hank - ENTJ
(gomez - ISFJ)
marie - ESFP
saul goodman - ENTP
mike - INTJ
gus - INFJ
lydia - INFP (heavy Si scripted role but not a Si-dom in "behavioral phenotype" or w/e)
todd - ISTP (dark kind, quantum freeze nothing-dude, total Fe puppet without remorse, scary)

i don't think there were any INTP or ENFJ characters.

 

[OrLevitate]

walt - ISTJ
jesse - ESFP
(skinny pete - ISTP)
(badger - ESTP)
(the dude walt has to kill in the basement - ENFP)
(jane - ISFP)
((jane's dad - ESTJ))
(tuco - ESTP)
skyler - ESFJ
(walt jr - ESTJ)
hank - ENTJ
(gomez - ISFJ)
marie - ESFP
saul goodman - ENTP
mike - INTJ
gus - INFJ
lydia - INFP (heavy Si scripted role but not a Si-dom in "behavioral phenotype" or w/e)
todd - ISTP (dark kind, quantum freeze nothing-dude, total Fe puppet without remorse, scary)

i don't think there were any INTP or ENFJ characters.

and they were acting (hence the term "actors")

 

[Brontosaurie]

and they were acting (hence the term "actors")

yes mister

that ambiguity is part of the complexity making fictional typing interesting. part of the appeal of movies at large actually.

now what do you think about the characters? or did you come in here solely to flaunt your naive type skepticism again?

read your own signature :P

 

[TBerg]

I don't know how you guys got all of that from watching it. I must be depressed or my bulb is relatively dull.

 

[Teffnology]

Vince Gilligan the show's creator strikes me as an INTP when listening to his interviews.
I would say that Robert Forester's character at the end could be an INTP. Taking into account his profession of keeping people hidden from society.

 

[Architect]

walt - ISTJ
jesse - ESFP
(skinny pete - ISTP)
(badger - ESTP)
(the dude walt has to kill in the basement - ENFP)
(jane - ISFP)
((jane's dad - ESTJ))
(tuco - ESTP)
skyler - ESFJ
(walt jr - ESTJ)
hank - ENTJ
(gomez - ISFJ)
marie - ESFP
saul goodman - ENTP
mike - INTJ
gus - INFJ
lydia - INFP (heavy Si scripted role but not a Si-dom in "behavioral phenotype" or w/e)
todd - ISTP (dark kind, quantum freeze nothing-dude, total Fe puppet without remorse, scary)

i don't think there were any INTP or ENFJ characters.

Pretty good. Except ...

hank - ENTJ

No Hank is a good-old-boy through and through. Clearly ESTP, he makes beer on the side and is a highly physical character. Remember his reaction to losing control of his legs? Life was over, he just decided it was, because of the physical problems. An ENTJ would be much less hit by it, but an ESTP would be devastated.

saul goodman - ENTP
I don't see the wild eyed ideation you get with ENTP's. But he could fit this, he's in touch with people as ENTP's are, but an ENTP getting into successful shyster lawyer business? Maybe. I'm not sure of an alternative, but I'd put him as a F actually - ESFP or possibly ENFP. He's main role is conciliatory.

mike - INTJ

Yes, possibly, except an INTJ becoming what is basically a thug? Then living his life for nothing but a beer at the end of the day and the money he's saving for his grand daughter (if I recall the story)? Also he fell out with working for the police, instead preferring to work outside of the law. INTJ's are Te systems workers and thinkers, one would have better luck than that with the police department. I'd place him ISTJ actually, especially with that intense anger he would get (I see ISTJ's get this all the time)

gus - INFJ

Ooooh yes. That is delicious. Except, the blank monotone demeanor. Like when he's going to kill somebody. "Blank eyes" they call it in the show I think. Certainly an INFJ could turn to that. But compare to ...

lydia - INFP

Lydia acts the most like an INFJ woman. She's quite similar to my wife. The intense concern for her daughter, the hypochondria, the particulars about how things are done, the concern about how she looks and the clothes she wears. She's caught up in her own little whirlwind and doesn't think about the consequences. She's an outer judger, not an outer perceiver as an INFP would be.

So on the last two, Lydia I'd peg as a clear INFJ, with Gus possibly as the dark counterpoint to that (not like Lydia isn't dark already). Gus is like how some (including me) consider that Hitler might be an INFJ. But Gus doesn't really quite fit it, either he's a Uber type (a combination), or something else, or just an INFJ with a strong personality.

 

[TheManBeyond]

i have difficulties differentiating between ENFPs and ENTPs i can see saul as both maybe.

 

[Architect]

i have difficulties differentiating between ENFPs and ENTPs i can see saul as both maybe.

It's easy, ENTP's are perennially hopping from one thing to another. Look at Adam Savage for a beautiful example of this on MythBusters. The ENFP's will do that nt with ideas but rather with people and activities. Now the ENTPs are also quite people persons too, but won't focus and linger on people the way the ENFP's will, who also have many more friends. When you're with an ENFP you'll think that they think you are there best friend in the whole world, people love them to death. ENTPs are also great at tweaking people, they love getting a rise out of the people around them unlike the ENFP's.

 

[scenefinale]

No Hank is a good-old-boy through and through. Clearly ESTP...

Nothing about Hank is Se dom.

He is the epitome of STJ.

 

[Brontosaurie]

Architect: i can see your motivations, but i'm not convinced. do you agree (or at least not disagree) with my other typings?

scenefinale: how would you type the entire or main cast? to me Hank is way too relaxed for an STJ. he is Te-dom and (usually well kempt) Fi-inferior alright, which makes him strive for objective, concrete decision-making and hold a certain honor that may go overboard. he is however Ni-Se: he is certain of his surroundings, he consults hunches rather than rigid tradition, he has an acute awareness of what's surely going on around him. ESTJ's are more theoretical, more stiff, more traditional. Hank is not very traditional; he's just hands-on and quite single-minded. theory and strict procedure is dumb and thick to him. ESTJ would behave more as a cog in the machinery, and less genuine. ENTJ Hank is extremely concerned with results and efficiency but he operates as a human being drawing conclusions from instincts and heuristics that exist in his head, not in some rulebook. he engages fully from within himself. STJ folks are always kind of distant and acting like what they reckon is "proper conduct", oftentimes contradicting their own instinct, maybe not even being aware of themselves as natural emotional human beings at all. they are extremely stiff people. Hank isn't. i mean come on he's even funny. you don't get that in STJ's. his Schraderbrau is not STJ family tradition; it's an ENTJ's blunt childish self-inflation which is open to a comical reading. Schraderbrau? i giggled many times. Schraderbrau. not STJ.

Architect: when Hank becomes depressed over having his legs squished (to which most people would react strongly btw) it's not predominantly because his legs are physical objects and he loses contact with Se world but because he can no longer be a man the way he knows how to: by chasing bad guys. it's that Te-Fi task and pride thing. so he's not ESTP either. he is a highly intelligent yet down-to-earth, self-assured ENTJ who can be ExTP-esque social and flexible because he knows that kinda stuff happens within a context that does not threaten his goal-orientation. NTJ's can be extraordinarily flexible, tolerant, unpretentious and likeable when they're in control to a satisfying degree.

 

[Jennywocky]

Nothing about Hank is Se dom.

He is the epitome of STJ.

That's not much of an argument. Correction: That's not an argument at all.

He's a type A male personality who validates himself through his work. Maybe that is what you are misreading as Te. I've known ESTPs and ESTJs, and the ESTJs -- while friendly -- are more structured than Hank. That's because they're Te dom. Hank is far more apt to go into a situation and trust his instincts -- not his planning or logic -- to bring him out again.

 

[scenefinale]

Architect: i can see your motivations, but i'm not convinced. do you agree (or at least not disagree) with my other typings?

I think Architect and I are mostly on the same page with our typings for Breaking Bad. Although one could make a strong argument for Gus as INFJ, his manners and politeness are more of the systematic INTP manners and his routine and discipline suggest Si to me. Zeta is more spontaneous and likes to switch it up often. Also, his insight into Walt's car bomb is another good example of Ne.

scenefinale: how would you type the entire or main cast?

http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=20393

to me Hank is way too relaxed for an STJ. he is Te-dom

You could also make a really strong ESTJ argument for Hank, but I went with ISTJ. He is definitely Te ego (1st or 2nd function), but Ne inferior seems much more likely to me, so I went with ISTJ.

 

[scenefinale]

That's not much of an argument. Correction: That's not an argument at all.

He's a type A male personality who validates himself through his work. Maybe that is what you are misreading as Te. I've known ESTPs and ESTJs, and the ESTJs -- while friendly -- are more structured than Hank. That's because they're Te dom. Hank is far more apt to go into a situation and trust his instincts -- not his planning or logic -- to bring him out again.

I'm not arguing, I was pointing something out.

 

[Jennywocky]

I'm not arguing, I was pointing something out.

You were pointing out you think he's the epitome of STJ?
What use is that, as your only point in a post?

You could insert any type there and it wouldn't matter.
AKA meaningless post.

(That was something I was pointing out.)

You could also make a really strong ESTJ argument for Hank, but I went with ISTJ. He is definitely Te ego (1st or 2nd function), but Ne inferior seems much more likely to me, so I went with ISTJ.

If you think he's an introvert, I'd hate to see what you think an extrovert is.
This is where using function theory can lead people astray.

You just need to look at some basics of his behavior: The guy goes stir crazy when he can't be around people, he thrives when he is surrounded by people, he can't NOT say something or get involved when there's something going on. He's not even a gray case, he's kind of a stereotypical extrovert. (Compare that to Walt's introversion.)

How much experience do you have with ISTJ's in real life?

 

[scenefinale]

You were pointing out you think he's the epitome of STJ?
What use is that, as your only point in a post?

You could insert any type there and it wouldn't matter.
AKA meaningless post.

(That was something I was pointing out.)

Okay, for the sake of argument then, let's say everyone here was arguing about the answer to
x = 2 + 2
A few guess 3 some guess 22, etc. I come along and point out that it's 4. I don't need to argue, the correct answer stands for itself. So I'm supposed to give a full lesson in typology with each small discrepancy I point out? I would say someone posting 4 is quite valuable in a thread on 2 + 2.

If you think he's an introvert, I'd hate to see what you think an extrovert is.
This is where using function theory can lead people astray.

You're actually highlighting one of the flaws of MBTI's letter system, guessing on letters. I and E is far more sophisticated than friend count, etc. There are plenty of introverts who need people around them.

You just need to look at some basics of his behavior: The guy goes stir crazy when he can't be around people, he thrives when he is surrounded by people, he can't NOT say something or get involved when there's something going on. He's not even a gray case, he's kind of a stereotypical extrovert. (Compare that to Walt's introversion.)

How much experience do you have with ISTJ's in real life?

I have lots of experience with ISTJ's.

 

[scenefinale]

Also, I should point out that we're fitting these characters' personality types into a broken system. There are bound to be mistakes by the very nature of this limited model.

 

[Architect]

Architect: i can see your motivations, but i'm not convinced. do you agree (or at least not disagree) with my other typings?

Yes the other ones look good to me.

Nothing about Hank is Se dom.

He is the epitome of STJ.

I could go either way. Basically I'm not willing to deeply look into it, other than note that the character is clearly a S dominant of some type, there's little intuition there.

 

[Architect]

Something else to consider. There are two schools of though on using MBTI with movie and TV show characters; one is as real people with a Type. That of course suffers from the same difficulties of typing people in general (they have a personal background which modulates the type), and also because they are made up people. For example "Sheldon" in Big Bang Theory is a character unlike probably any real person. In this case these characters are developed over a long running show, and are meant to be typical people so this is reasonable.

However, the other angle is that Beebe and others analyze characters as representing Functions in one type. In some movies it's almost perfect, Hugo for example as a representation of a INTP personality.

Spoiler

Beebe (2001) is also well known for analyzing motion pictures using an approach that assigns a single Jungian cognitive process to each of the major characters represented on screen. He has described his method as follows: “A way to understand a film psychologically is to take its various characters as signifying complexes, parts of a single personality whose internal object relations are undergoing change” (p. 212). In this fashion, the movie as a whole takes on a complete personality with each character representing a function and archetype. The movie Hugo can be correlated to Beebe’s eight-level model by mapping the functions and archetypes as shown in the table.

So it's worth considering if the characters are more archetypes of Functions.
Given these ideas I think it's futile to analyze characters too closely.

 

[scenefinale]

For example "Sheldon" in Big Bang Theory is a character unlike probably any real person. In this case these characters are developed over a long running show, and are meant to be typical people so this is reasonable.

Sheldon is a great example of NTJ type. Such a good portrayal that it makes me think the actor who plays him must be an NTJ (to be fair, I haven't seen him outside of the show to verify this, though). Sheldons are rare, yes, but not if you look in the right place, like the university I attend. NTJ's tend to have the best grades if only by the nature of their factual memories, which often lands them at better universities. So yes, I have to put up with "Sheldons" quite often where I am. They are so certain of themselves; I've had NTJ TA's take off points grading my CS homework, for example, because I did it differently than the masses and when I approach them about it they dismiss me, until I sit down with them and show them not only is the approach I took correct, but it's superior to the one they had (the particular assignment I had in mind was in my honors data structures and algorithms class, I had gone out of my way to make a Linked List implementation with referential-transparency in a functional manner). That's not what they were taught so they just dismissed it as wrong. These people very much exist, and Sheldon is a great charicature of them (albeit it is intended to be comedy). But, yes, we must also consider that not all NTJs are like this, because not all NTJs are into academia and arrogant, etc..

Also, small disclaimer, I've only seen the first 3 or so seasons of The Big Bang Theory so I'm only speaking to those seasons.

However, the other angle is that Beebe and others analyze characters as representing Functions in one type. In some movies it's almost perfect, Hugo for example as a representation of a INTP personality.

Wow, I really like that Beebe quote, thanks!

 

[Analyzer]

Sheldon is a great example of NTJ type. Such a good portrayal that it makes me think the actor who plays him must be an NTJ (to be fair, I haven't seen him outside of the show to verify this, though). Sheldons are rare, yes, but not if you look in the right place, like the university I attend. NTJ's tend to have the best grades if only by the nature of their factual memories, which often lands them at better universities. So yes, I have to put up with "Sheldons" quite often where I am. They are so certain of themselves; I've had NTJ TA's take off points grading my CS homework, for example, because I did it differently than the masses and when I approach them about it they dismiss me, until I sit down with them and show them not only is the approach I took correct, but it's superior to the one they had (the particular assignment I had in mind was in my honors data structures and algorithms class, I had gone out of my way to make a Linked List implementation with referential-transparency in a functional manner). That's not what they were taught so they just dismissed it as wrong. These people very much exist, and Sheldon is a great charicature of them (albeit it is intended to be comedy). But, yes, we must also consider that not all NTJs are like this, because not all NTJs are into academia and arrogant, etc..

This is similar to STJ's, if not directly about them. Sheldom comes across as a ISTJ to me. Seems like your taking about the Si obsession with remembering details and factual information as well as the Te approach to standard methodologies.

 

[Teffnology]

Something else to consider. There are two schools of though on using MBTI with movie and TV show characters; one is as real people with a Type.

However, the other angle is that Beebe and others analyze characters as representing Functions in one type.

So it's worth considering if the characters are more archetypes of Functions.
Given these ideas I think it's futile to analyze characters too closely.

You had touched on this concept in Ask Architect and I was going to probe you on it further but this is something that I have observed in watching people type characters. It can't be taken at face value, there are a lot variables in play. But it is a fun discussion and I get sucked into it every now and then. I think INTPs enjoying typing so much because it is a system of which to evaluate people. Turning the subjective into the objective. There is value in the discussion, to highlight certain characteristics and the overlap/contrast with one's own type, but coming to an overall consensus is not likely, if possible at all.

Fun but futile.

 

[Architect]

I think INTPs enjoying typing so much because it is a system of which to evaluate people.

Yes. Its better than actually having to talk to people too (insert smiley).

 

[scenefinale]

This is similar to STJ's, if not directly about them. Sheldom comes across as a ISTJ to me. Seems like your taking about the Si obsession with remembering details and factual information as well as the Te approach to standard methodologies.

We can take it up in another thread, if you'd like.

 

[Architect]

We can take it up in another thread, if you'd like.

Sheldon has been discussed before around here. General consensus is that he's a mixture of ISTJ, INTP and INTJ.

 

[scenefinale]

Sheldon has been discussed before around here. General consensus is that he's a mixture of ISTJ, INTP and INTJ.

Okay, well, his mother would appear Si-dom, perhaps that would explain the perceived Si traits of this fictional character. While yes organization is typical of SI, organization as a trait can be the result of nurture. Si details? No those are more Ni/Te facts. There's a scene in Breaking Bad which demonstrates what I mean, where Hank has his rock collection and he tries telling Walt a few rock details, and Walt reveals he knows way more.

But in reality, I just don't see an ISTJ (granted, anything is possible, I'm speaking in generalities here) enjoying a career in String Theory (M-Theory in particular) to the point where they are at the top of their field. String Theory is completely theory, there is nothing concrete or tangible about it. Strictly speaking from my experience with S-dom types, abstract theory is generally not their favorite thing in life. Also, in general, I don't see an STJ talking this way to a judge http://youtu.be/g3nlOjfLd6Q

I don't see any INTP either in Sheldon.

 

[TheManBeyond]

you know, after a seeing this i change INTJ to ISTJ.
I always considered that possibility but i suppose i was too blind with the awesomeness of INTJs and his character and linked both. I was an amateur so forgive me.
Might even look as an INTP at first before breaking bad.

 

[Jennywocky]

Don't let one scene confuse you.

Also, people aren't stereotypes. Any person can be scared of something.

You've basically got an introvert vs extrovert exchange here.

 

[CrayCrayMan]

Watched a time ago the whole series.


It was perfect, the characters, the story....
At the finale, i smiled at the end, because worth watching it.


Now everytime i watch Malcolm in the Middle i must think everytime about Hal being a meth cook.