Brainstorming the idea of being an ISTP and not an INTP

[Spirit]

Objective of this thread is to brainstorm ideas surrounding why an INTP could be an ISTP. July of 2013 Architect said he has suspected i was an ISTP based on my bodybuilding past. From that point till today, I have been tracking and observing myself to determine whether this could be true and my results to this point are inconclusive. With this thread, I will explore this idea.

A work in process...

I suffer from analysis paralysis. I want to understand ideas I am interested in. I will research until ... I never stop looking. I thought that this was extraverted intuition but when I kept looking into how I am getting my information it did not seem to follow consistently with what is described. I read a lot and I watch a lot of video. I sit and think about what I am doing building toward an answer to my internal question. I keep adding information and discarding things that do not fit within my personal framework of what the pattern could be. I have always figured things out. As a kid I would read encyclopedias and then start taking things apart and putting them back together. I was always in observation mode taking down mental notes of what I see in front of me and how it works. I recognize the patterns. This is where I thought I was an INTP. However my pattern recognition (they have a logical order about them) and introspection about the patterns could be TI.

I thought that I had introverted sensing but that could be me recognizing something I read before and a pattern of sensations that I produce a likely result. i am not sure that means I am intune with my senses. Nor do I have an incredible memory for past details. These are a couple of the markers for SI.

FE was a challenge because both NT and ST both have FE in the inferior position so if I am indeed a ISTP suffer the same challenges trying to handle these emotions that are so far from use. It is likely that in an ISTP these emotions become visual and physical manifestations because of SE. Subconsciously, seeing certain thing my cause an unknown physical response. This could encourage the SE user to react to the emotion in a physical way or describe the emotion with visual imagery. The way I understand NE is that it is abstract in nature this could be a reason why INTP's may be able to relate to their feeling because they way the take in energy is not externally physical or vivid or a in a way they can make tangible.

ISTP "I see in images. For example, when I am racing, I can "sense" the distance between cars and make a calculated decision while in traffic based on the speed of the cars where the right path of passing through multiple lanes will get me to a spot on the road. Just know the right path. I am very aware of myself in space, I have good balance and anything connected to me is an extension of myself. When I was a basketball player, I could dribble well with both hands and i could shoot well with either hand. i can also write and shoot guns with both of my hands. I recognize when things are out of place." Could these things be more SE than NE?

Architect spoke of Ne as being scatter brained. I have never thought of myself as scatter brained. I am constantly analyzing something I have seen or read in my mind. I am in my head but before I think about an idea I need research first. Sometimes I need to look at information I have already seen before. I can resynthesize the information as I read it again based on the current framework I am in. I am not looking at the information based on previous frameworks. I am in the moment reviewing the information like it is the first time I have seen it. All I recognize is that there is a pattern. Other reason I could be an SE user. I understand how to cook well. I am enjoy fine dining but for the sake of doing something new. It was an experiment that I enjoyed. I know why the outfits work together I understand fashion. It seems INTP's are known for not having a fashion sense. I choose not to be fashionable but I know how and why it works.

I identified with the INTP because of the introspective analysis of systems and programs. I did not have a clear understanding of NE and SE. For that matter, I still do not have a firm handle on how these functions work. I seek the truth and I will keep searching.

 

[Base groove]

Re: Brainstorming the idea of being an ISTP

Well I'm sure you don't want to hear from me again but I sure thought you were ISTP the other day if that means anything.

I like to think of ST consciousness as being quite practical, observant, and sharp with making correct./efficient decisions based on observable facts/data.

 

[Spirit]

Re: Brainstorming the idea of being an ISTP

Activities of ISTP

Computers
Video games

Oddly developed site says ISTP's are over represented in activities that involve video games or computers

According to most MBTI sites:

ISTP are naturally in tune with their environment:
Participate in ...
Outdoors activities like snowboarding or camping
Physical activities like dancing or playing music with an instrument

The book Do what you are, mentions that one ISTP enjoys flying an Airplane as a hobby and another has the hobby of horseback riding.

Personality Type mention The ISTP enjoys working with objects that become an extension of themselves.

 

[Spirit]

Re: Brainstorming the idea of being an ISTP

Well I'm sure you don't want to hear from me again but I sure thought you were ISTP the other day if that means anything.

I like to think of ST consciousness as being quite practical, observant, and sharp with making correct./efficient decisions based on observable facts/data.

You can comment as much as you want to. I am not afraid of corrections. My goal is to completely understand my topic. I could use a brain like yours in reaching that goal.

 

[Spirit]

Re: Brainstorming the idea of being an ISTP

I like to think of ST consciousness as being quite practical, observant, and sharp with making correct./efficient decisions based on observable facts/data.

It seems that way.

My first brainstorming session is to dig into the activities that confuse people when taking those tests. I want to look at Activities that INTP's favor and ISTP favor. Then explain why they perform them based on the cognitive function.

For example, Computers and Video Games.

What role does TI play in playing video games and using computers?
What role does NE or SE play when they are playing those games or using their computer?

 

[Base groove]

Re: Brainstorming the idea of being an ISTP

What role does TI play in playing video games and using computers?
What role does NE or SE play when they are playing those games or using their computer?

They don't play individual roles, they pair up and perform duets.

What role does NE or SE play when they are playing those games or using their computer?

Alternative answer: in a Ti dom? Auxiliary, of course.

 

[Architect]

My older brother is an ISTP, and he has been a role model for me. I owe getting into technology largely to him I believe. ISTP's and INTP's are quite similar, however from knowing him (and other ISTPs) and INTPs (myself and others), I can summarize the main difference between them as follows (if you wanted to get it down to one sentence)

ISTP's are much more athletic and experiential. The generally dislike theory and abstraction, but there are rare exceptions.

INTP's generally dislike athletics and the experiential, while there are rare exceptions the farthest they get is solo sports like running or cycling. They love theory and abstraction.

I suffer from analysis paralysis. ...However my pattern recognition (they have a logical order about them) and introspection about the patterns could be TI.

Yes

Nor do I have an incredible memory for past details. These are a couple of the markers for SI.

Yes, both of those would indicate Si. So far we have seen Ti, Se (body building) and not Si.

FE was a challenge because both NT and ST both have FE in the inferior position so if I am indeed a ISTP suffer the same ...

You'll see little difference in Fe between INTP's and ISTP's.

ISTP "I see in images. For example, when I am racing, I can "sense" the distance between cars and make a calculated decision while in traffic based on the speed of the cars where the right path ... I recognize when things are out of place." Could these things be more SE than NE?

YES. Very much so.

Architect spoke of Ne as being scatter brained. I have never thought of myself as scatter brained. I am constantly analyzing something I have seen or read in my mind. I am in my head ...

Se discussion ...

I identified with the INTP because of the introspective analysis of systems and programs. I did not have a clear understanding of NE and SE. For that matter, I still do not have a firm handle on how these functions work. I seek the truth and I will keep searching.

Go forth and analyze, young ISTP ...

 

[Spirit]

Video games

Ti - is the function of logic. In video games there are certain patterns that present themselves and the Introverted thinker uses this analytic ability to determine the best possible route to the solution. They are recognizing the framework of the game they are determining how all of the players and NPC fit into the system and how to exploit them to reach the objective.

Se- These users look at the aesthetics of the game. It must look good when they are playing the game. The gameplay must duplicate a real life experience. It would be very frustrating if a character does not operate within the framework of the established universe. If the character has the ability to fly, it should be smooth and resemble a object that the player has seen fly. If the character was to crash the players should be disoriented when it is out of control on the way to the crash site unless it was unexpected. The game must push the limits and have excitement around every turn.

Ne - is about looking at the situation from multiple perspectives. How does being objective help you in a video game. According to one site, Ne is about juggling multiple ideas and interpreting the meaning behind them. For example, If you are playing a game with a riddle based on history, context within the game, knowledge of scientific theory and statistics this could be useful function. A game that is based on finding as many ways to solve a problem. If the game only has one solution to solve the problem, the Ne user will become bored with the lack of stimulation.

 

[Analyzer]

Both are pretty similar, when not in Ti mode do you pursue Se activities(hands on, physical) or Ne (ideas,random).

ISTP, INTJ, INFP, ENTP, and INFJ are most similar to INTP.

 

[Spirit]

They don't play individual roles, they pair up and perform duets.



Alternative answer: in a Ti dom? Auxiliary, of course.

So it seems, bass and electric guitar?


logically

My older brother is an ISTP, and he has been a role model for me. I owe getting into technology largely to him I believe. ISTP's and INTP's are quite similar, however from knowing him (and other ISTPs) and INTPs (myself and others), I can summarize the main difference between them as follows (if you wanted to get it down to one sentence)

ISTP's are much more athletic and experiential. The generally dislike theory and abstraction, but there are rare exceptions.

INTP's generally dislike athletics and the experiential, while there are rare exceptions the farthest they get is solo sports like running or cycling. They love theory and abstraction.

It will be a great test case. As I explore the inner workings of ISTP while comparing it to what you are working on with the hypothesis of INTP. You then could talk to your brother and share his insights to my brainstorming.

Yes



Yes, both of those would indicate Si. So far we have seen Ti, Se (body building) and not Si.

True

You'll see little difference in Fe between INTP's and ISTP's.
That is good to know. I will explore this in depth.


YES. Very much so.



Se discussion ...



Go forth and analyze, young ISTP ...

The one thing i enjoy more than analyzing involves a consenting adult woman, preferably hot and bothered.

See bold.

 

[Base groove]

There is no turning back on the truthiness of your ISTP.

True or false: every time another sensor gets identified, two more join the forum.

 

[Spirit]

Both are pretty similar, when not in Ti mode do you pursue Se activities(hands on, physical) or Ne (ideas,random).

ISTP, INTJ, INFP, ENTP, and INFJ are most similar to INTP.

I think it goes deeper than "do you like hands on" or "are you random". The problem with those comments is that they are rather vague.

 

[Spirit]

There is no turning back on the truthiness of your ISTP.

True or false: every time another sensor gets identified, two more join the forum.

Well, I need more compelling evidence to support this idea. I once tested INTJ and INTP.


Well as we know it is easy to test INTP apparently. When it is fleshed out what really separates INTP from ISTP I will start sending better questions to all of the test makers so that they can determine the correct qualities between them.

 

[Architect]

The one thing i enjoy more than analyzing involves a consenting adult woman, preferably hot and bothered.

ISTP's are generally more sexually adventurous than INTP's, also.

 

[Spirit]

Computers

Ti - is the function of logic. In Computers there are certain patterns that present themselves and the Introverted thinker uses this analytic ability to determine the best possible route to the solution. They are recognizing the framework of the game they are determining how all of the players and fit into the system and how to exploit them to reach the objective. (make more specific to computers)

Se - Autonomy to create something that new. They would be good at fact checking a piece of code an making it look "pretty" or with consistent format. Not to be confused with doing the same type of work everyday. They would need new code to rework to keep them interested. Workflow programming and designing programs to meet a specific goal. (Ok for now)

Ne - Autonomy to design systems or programs that meet multiple goals while designing multiple versions of the same system. Lets entertain all of the options to solve this problem and how would they be designed. Lets see how the system operates from multiple perspectives. Endless designs of the system and similar systems and how they are connected. (must rework)

 

[Spirit]

ISTP's are generally more sexually adventurous than INTP's, also.

The more aesthetically pleasing, the more adventurous. I would be more like to walk out of the door if she does not fit my idea of "attractive". My body will not get excited if she is outside the threshold. Love has nothing to do with that.

I wonder if ISTP's have a higher rate of dissatification in relationships when their partner no longer looks they way they did when they looked their best?

Does the desire diminish when they partner has the tools to reach the previous best level of aesthetic appeal?

 

[Base groove]

If you want to distinguish INTP from ISTP just review the major characteristics of thinking/introversion and then apply your entire arsenal of sensor biases. It will work, trust me.

 

[Turniphead]

You are doing a good job of convincing me of my own possible ISTP ness...



I can identify with a lot of what you are saying... except the memory thing. I feel like I have a pretty extensive visual/detail based memory, especially compared to most people I talk about past experiences with. They won't even remember the conversations, and I can often remember large chunks of the convos.

edit:
Also the looks thing... there is a threshold obviously, but intelligence and attitude can turn me on a lot.

 

[Spirit]

If you want to distinguish INTP from ISTP just review the major characteristics of thinking/introversion and then apply your entire arsenal of sensor biases. It will work, trust me.

I'm working on it. I will not be able to do that until I look at more data and can explain it using "practical" examples.

 

[Spirit]

You are doing a good job of convincing me of my own possible ISTP ness...



I can identify with a lot of what you are saying... except the memory thing. I feel like I have a pretty extensive visual/detail based memory, especially compared to most people I talk about past experiences with. They won't even remember the conversations, and I can often remember large chunks of the convos.

edit:
Also the looks thing... there is a threshold obviously, but intelligence and attitude can turn me on a lot.

It is visual memory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_loci


She has to be "intelligent". I am saying when she had a certain level of "hotness" and she starts to lose it but does not do anything to maintain a certain level of "attractiveness" it causes issues with me.

Obviously, there are certain things outside of her control.

• getting older
• age spots
• natural hair turning a different color

I am not talking about those things.


Things one can control:

• Morbid obesity
• Dental hygiene
• Mom jeans

 

[Turniphead]

It is visual memory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_loci


She has to be "intelligent". I am saying when she had a certain level of "hotness" and she starts to lose it but does not do anything to maintain a certain level of "attractiveness" it causes issues with me.

Obviously, there are certain things outside of her control.

• getting older
• age spots
• natural hair turning a different color

I am not talking about those things.


Things one can control:

• Morbid obesity
• Dental hygiene
• Mom jeans

Memory: Hmmm, I'm familiar with that method, but when I've tried to use it, it hasn't worked terribly well. Maybe I just haven't tried hard enough. When I try to apply things that aren't naturally connected to each other, it gets all jumbled in my head because it's such an arbitrary connection.(maybe the problem is I'm trying to connect words with visuals)

I do have a good memory of place though. I don't remember locations by street names, or even look at the street names, but I can't get lost. I have a mental map of
everywhere I have been. Good luck if I'm taking the route in the reverse direction though.

Attractiveness: Yah, those make sense for me. Not sure how that would be a ISTP thing necessarily.

 

[Spirit]

Memory: Hmmm, I'm familiar with that method, but when I've tried to use it, it hasn't worked terribly well. Maybe I just haven't tried hard enough. When I try to apply things that aren't naturally connected to each other, it gets all jumbled in my head because it's such an arbitrary connection.(maybe the problem is I'm trying to connect words with visuals)

I do have a good memory of place though. I don't remember locations by street names, or even look at the street names, but I can't get lost. I have a mental map of
everywhere I have been. Good luck if I'm taking the route in the reverse direction though.

Attractiveness: Yah, those make sense for me. Not sure how that would be a ISTP thing necessarily.

There are lots of methods for visual memory. What do you see when you have these memories? Just curious.

If an ISTP is into aesthetics and excitement I would conclude that dimmished excitement or aesthetics would not be stimulating. Is watching tv in black and white as stimulating visually as in color?

 

[Turniphead]

There are lots of methods for visual memory. What do you see when you have these memories? Just curious.

Everything? Everything I saw that I happened to notice when I was at the location anyway. Obviously it fades over time, but...

I can also construct new images based on the memories. Exploring and playing with it in my head. Imagining it from above, spinning it, zooming in and out, etc. (I don't do this as much as I used to. I blame the internet)

If an ISTP is into aesthetics and excitement I would conclude that dimmished excitement or aesthetics would not be stimulating. Is watching tv in black and white as stimulating visually as in color?

If it has better composition/lighting/etc, than the colour version, yah!

 

[Absurdity]

IMO it is easier to type by identifying the inferior than it is through trying to identify dom/aux. I went back to your old threads and found these two quotes, which I find revealing:

I started lifting "seriously" around 23yrs old. After a lifetime of people calling me skinny and weak, i devised a plan to do something about it. I also thought if I looked more "muscular" I would be "sexier" and everything that goes with it. During this time I had not accomplished many of the goals I had for my life and was looking for something to be good at. I had just dropped out of engineering school a couple years earlier "math challenges".

This seems like the reason that a person in an inferior Se grip would give for getting into working out. Se-doms and Se-auxes are just naturally active and don't go overboard (like jumping into bodybuilding). My brother is an ISTP and stays in shape effortlessly because he always wants to go out and do something. He isn't huge, he's just in shape.

I can agree with a lot of points you raise. What is great about bodybuilding is that it depended on my ability to analyze my body and discover which methodology I would use to facilitate growth. I could not rely on a team to help me perform a task on a day. Team sports is like living vicariously through another persons achievements which does not interest me.

This analysis sounds like Te because it is analysis as a means to an end rather than for its own sake. Also, I think INTJs would be more likely to be athletic loners than ISTPs. Inferior Fe would make ISTPs yearn to be accepted by their team and their coaches. My brother went through it in high school.

Diagnosis: INTJ. Possibly INFJ, but much less likely.

 

[Spirit]

IMO it is easier to type by identifying the inferior than it is through trying to identify dom/aux. I went back to your old threads and found these two quotes, which I find revealing:



This seems like the reason that a person in an inferior Se grip would give for getting into working out. Se-doms and Se-auxes are just naturally active and don't go overboard (like jumping into bodybuilding). My brother is an ISTP and stays in shape effortlessly because he always wants to go out and do something. He isn't huge, he's just in shape.



This analysis sounds like Te because it is analysis as a means to an end rather than for its own sake. Also, I think INTJs would be more likely to be athletic loners than ISTPs. Inferior Fe would make ISTPs yearn to be accepted by their team and their coaches. My brother went through it in high school.

Diagnosis: INTJ. Possibly INFJ, but much less likely.

A real quick answer.

I started my Se experience around age 12 Baseball, basketball at age 14 to 22 bodybuilding from age mid twenties to early thirties.

I reviewed personal writing, pictures, videos and interviewed different people that knew me from different periods in my life. I have been research the idea of me being an ISTP since July 2013.


I have not provided enough data to prove that I am not an ISTP. I have not provided enough information to prove I am INTJ.

 

[deadpixel]

A few here think im an ISTP because of the way that I look, which is an ironically hypocritical way for an INTP to type someone.

 

[Anktark]

There seems to be a common agreement that ISTPs are more practical and INTPs- more theoretical, thinkers. Having that in mind, are you interested in knowledge that you probably will never be able to use directly and practically? That is, do you like ideas and knowledge for no reason in particular and not because you could use them in your life?

I suffer from analysis paralysis. I want to understand ideas I am interested in. I will research until ... I never stop looking. I thought that this was extraverted intuition but when I kept looking into how I am getting my information it did not seem to follow consistently with what is described. I read a lot and I watch a lot of video. I sit and think about what I am doing building toward an answer to my internal question. I keep adding information and discarding things that do not fit within my personal framework of what the pattern could be. I have always figured things out. As a kid I would read encyclopedias and then start taking things apart and putting them back together. I was always in observation mode taking down mental notes of what I see in front of me and how it works. I recognize the patterns. This is where I thought I was an INTP. However my pattern recognition (they have a logical order about them) and introspection about the patterns could be TI.

Taken from http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/7928-intp-istp.html :
"To add on to Grey's post, you can also make an analogy of INTP v ISTP to deductive v inductive reasoning.
An INTP uses deductive, by starting with a general conclusion by perceiving patterns in the physical world then finds the facts to support that conclusion. Planning out multiple scenarios and gathers from their external world evidence to support one (or more) of their plans eliminating and creating new ones during the process. They start with the framework(s) and then input the evidence to see if it supports it or not.
An ISTP on the other hand starts small, by gathering the evidence first in the physical world, then builds upon each new piece of information until they can finally put together the big picture. They start with the facts then move to a general conclusion. ISTP's look for the pattern after gathering the facts, so that they are basically using concrete evidence to support a theory. An INTP on the other hand uses theory to support concrete evidence."

ISTP "I see in images. For example, when I am racing, I can "sense" the distance between cars and make a calculated decision while in traffic based on the speed of the cars where the right path of passing through multiple lanes will get me to a spot on the road. Just know the right path. I am very aware of myself in space, I have good balance and anything connected to me is an extension of myself. When I was a basketball player, I could dribble well with both hands and i could shoot well with either hand. i can also write and shoot guns with both of my hands. I recognize when things are out of place." Could these things be more SE than NE?

That's SE in action.

I understand how to cook well. I am enjoy fine dining but for the sake of doing something new. It was an experiment that I enjoyed. I know why the outfits work together I understand fashion. It seems INTP's are known for not having a fashion sense. I choose not to be fashionable but I know how and why it works.

I would say INTPs have a fashion sense, but it's rarely if ever tingling. They use the clothes for their thermal insulation, camouflage, protection and utility (pockets are great!), not to show their social or economic status or whatever else it is people use them for. On the other hand, ISTPs don't make a great distinction in this area, so deviations could be erroneously taken as a difference between two types.

 

[Architect]

The more aesthetically pleasing, the more adventurous. I would be more like to walk out of the door if she does not fit my idea of "attractive". My body will not get excited if she is outside the threshold. Love has nothing to do with that.

I wonder if ISTP's have a higher rate of dissatification in relationships when their partner no longer looks they way they did when they looked their best?

Does the desire diminish when they partner has the tools to reach the previous best level of aesthetic appeal?

Don't know. I haven't noticed that the ISTP's I know are particularly picky. If anything they're more indiscriminate.

 

[Architect]

A trait in ISTP's over INTP's is that they'll be much more action oriented. For example, with the many ISTP programmers I know, they'll be much more likely to dig in and start writing code, with two feet! While I'll want to sit back, understand the problem, maybe do some modeling ... all of which will disgust them.

 

[Base groove]

A few here think im an ISTP because of the way that I look, which is an ironically hypocritical way for an INTP to type someone.

Strongly disagree that it is ironic or hypocritical or true.

I am one of the few who asserts you are ISTP as well. It's not because of how you look.... how you look is evidence. It's because of how you post, the ideas you have, the things you say ...

Like this for example. I can't really explain why, call it an intuition, but the quote I'm replying to just now is an example. ISTPs like ... simple things, and simple explanations. They understand just about anything they are able to analyze with their Ti and Se, but remember, it's a duet, and they're skeptical of intuition as a primary means of perception.

A trait in ISTP's over INTP's is that they'll be much more action oriented. For example, with the many ISTP programmers I know, they'll be much more likely to dig in and start writing code, with two feet! While I'll want to sit back, understand the problem, maybe do some modeling ... all of which will disgust them.

Strongly agree with this.


~~

Here is another POV.

It's about how the type experiences the passage of time and how they categorize time in their worldview.

Intuition is a function which calculates averages .. .it looks at the slope of the graph. It ignores moments when it can, and only when dissatisfied with the overall result will there be a tendency to go back and isolate a moment (where the mistake was made.)

Sensing is a function which makes its calculations on a much smaller time frame. Sensing looks at each moment as meaningful and representative, as though a moment itself is characteristic of the graph. This can lead to a sequence of very productive moments ... which in my point of view makes it look extremely practical.

 

[Architect]

It's about how the type experiences the passage of time and how they categorize time in their worldview.

Intuition is a function which calculates averages .. .it looks at the slope of the graph. It ignores moments when it can, and only when dissatisfied with the overall result will there be a tendency to go back and isolate a moment (where the mistake was made.)

Sensing is a function which makes its calculations on a much smaller time frame. Sensing looks at each moment as meaningful and representative, as though a moment itself is characteristic of the graph. This can lead to a sequence of very productive moments ... which in my point of view makes it look extremely practical.

Nicely said. Intuitives are more tied to the continuum, while Sensors are more to the moment.

 

[TimeAsylums]

ironically hypocritical

[bimgx=100]http://www.cjournal.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/RadiationLogo.gif[/bimgx]


[bimgx=100]http://journalistjan.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/toxic1.gif[/bimgx]​

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bMGBhCG-bQ

 

[Jennywocky]

A trait in ISTP's over INTP's is that they'll be much more action oriented. For example, with the many ISTP programmers I know, they'll be much more likely to dig in and start writing code, with two feet! While I'll want to sit back, understand the problem, maybe do some modeling ... all of which will disgust them.

The largest difference I've noticed is the propensity for INTPs to look at the abstractions and modeling as the goal in itself, whereas to ISTPs that's at best only seen as a stepping stone to actually working on something and often can be skimped on. (Going by the archetypes, both throw themselves into a particular realm and then works through it and adjusts as they go, info is constantly updated and alterations made; but for the INTP that tends to be the world of the idea and for the ISTP it tends to be the situation.)

But archetypes are just archetypes. It's not always so clear cut.

I had some interesting discussions with an ISTP guy who was into political theory and philosophies, but he was much more into the nuts and bolts of it and the tangible issues and I was much more abstracted and more interested in the idea being cohesive.

 

[Architect]

The largest difference I've noticed is the propensity for INTPs to look at the abstractions and modeling as the goal in itself, whereas to ISTPs that's at best only seen as a stepping stone to actually working on something and often can be skimped on.

Exactly, and if the Modeling or theory doesn't end up generating a result (a product) then the ISTP's will forever hold the technique in contempt. Never mind that there are as many examples of people jumping in without understanding the problem first, and failing equally badly.

(Going by the archetypes, both throw themselves into a particular realm and then works through it and adjusts as they go, info is constantly updated and alterations made; but for the INTP that tends to be the world of the idea and for the ISTP it tends to be the situation.)

But archetypes are just archetypes. It's not always so clear cut.

I had some interesting discussions with an ISTP guy who was into political theory and philosophies, but he was much more into the nuts and bolts of it and the tangible issues and I was much more abstracted and more interested in the idea being cohesive.

Yes, my brother surprises me by coming out with a theory occasionally that he knows all about, like Baysian statistics recently. I'd say that ISTP's and INTP's start from the same place but just go on different paths pretty quickly.

They're a good role model for the INTP, as is the INTP for them. They can teach us to get off our butts and actually produce something. Unfortunately if ISTP's admire INTP's, I'm not aware of it.

 

[Spirit]

IMO it is easier to type by identifying the inferior than it is through trying to identify dom/aux. I went back to your old threads and found these two quotes, which I find revealing:

I understand what you are saying and like the way Drenth looks at types. So this is why I reviewed my childhood and twenties with a fine tooth comb. There is more evidence than you are aware of. How I handled school, my attitude, the reasons why I was disciplined, how I handled disappointment. Why I had the hobbies I had? What kind of friends I had? How I interacted with the environment. These are questions you cannot answer because you do not have sufficient data.

This seems like the reason that a person in an inferior Se grip would give for getting into working out. Se-doms and Se-auxes are just naturally active and don't go overboard (like jumping into bodybuilding). My brother is an ISTP and stays in shape effortlessly because he always wants to go out and do something. He isn't huge, he's just in shape.

You haven't seen my body. I guarantee if you did you would say the same thing about me. I can look at a weight these days and my body looks as good as most celebrity bodies getting ready for an action role. That doesn't mean it is Se. "jumping into bodybuilding" is semantics. It is different for everyone. Besides, notice it is an action, something physical to describe what I did? I could have said I was "drawn to bodybuilding from some deep urning for connectedness with my spirit"

This analysis sounds like Te because it is analysis as a means to an end rather than for its own sake. Also, I think INTJs would be more likely to be athletic loners than ISTPs. Inferior Fe would make ISTPs yearn to be accepted by their team and their coaches. My brother went through it in high school.

Could be but one could look at me expressing myself in a physical way. How do you know I didn't feel that way during my basketball or baseball days? During my bodybuilding days, I was active on a forum of bodybuilders and we were a "team" and supported each other. It is possible that I yearned to be apart of this group.

Diagnosis: INTJ. Possibly INFJ, but much less likely.

Diagnosis: possible. Not enough evidence

 

[Spirit]

There seems to be a common agreement that ISTPs are more practical and INTPs- more theoretical, thinkers. Having that in mind, are you interested in knowledge that you probably will never be able to use directly and practically? That is, do you like ideas and knowledge for no reason in particular and not because you could use them in your life?

I learn things that I use and I spend alot of time analyzing them. For example, I do not follow the political scene but I would research it to death if I were going to vote. If I am not interested in the topic for something that is going to help me reach a conclusion it is not worth my time.

Taken from http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/7928-intp-istp.html :
"To add on to Grey's post, you can also make an analogy of INTP v ISTP to deductive v inductive reasoning.
An INTP uses deductive, by starting with a general conclusion by perceiving patterns in the physical world then finds the facts to support that conclusion. Planning out multiple scenarios and gathers from their external world evidence to support one (or more) of their plans eliminating and creating new ones during the process. They start with the framework(s) and then input the evidence to see if it supports it or not.
An ISTP on the other hand starts small, by gathering the evidence first in the physical world, then builds upon each new piece of information until they can finally put together the big picture. They start with the facts then move to a general conclusion. ISTP's look for the pattern after gathering the facts, so that they are basically using concrete evidence to support a theory. An INTP on the other hand uses theory to support concrete evidence."

Yes, I look for information support a hypothesis. I am open to new information that can refute what I previously knew. I want the truth so I tend to avoid letting outdated evidence trump new evidence because it happens to be older. For example, I was religious as a youth. The evidence I had supported my belief system. As I became older, I researched other religions and found flaws in the ideology. I determined that because of contradictions being part of a religious organization is not for me.


That's SE in action.



I would say INTPs have a fashion sense, but it's rarely if ever tingling. They use the clothes for their thermal insulation, camouflage, protection and utility (pockets are great!), not to show their social or economic status or whatever else it is people use them for. On the other hand, ISTPs don't make a great distinction in this area, so deviations could be erroneously taken as a difference between two types.

I am not obsessed with fashion. My outfits are tools to get me what i want. I did the research and know what to do with them. I don't always dress fashionable but I could. It may not be relevant but understanding the intentions could be. This is why I am analyzing the functions vs what I do. Not what I think would be cool to do.

see bold.

 

[Spirit]

Don't know. I haven't noticed that the ISTP's I know are particularly picky. If anything they're more indiscriminate.

Perhaps age and interest has something to do with this.

You interact with a lot of programmers. They are interested in computers. Are they particular about their components and devices they use to interface with the system?

Are you saying they are particular with women, how the woman they are with look as they age or they are not picky in general?

 

[Architect]

You interact with a lot of programmers. They are interested in computers. Are they particular about their components and devices they use to interface with the system?

Some are, some aren't. I haven't noticed any patterns except younger people don't care about the hardware the way us experienced folks do, because they are growing up with supercomputers.

Are you saying they are particular with women, how the woman they are with look as they age or they are not picky in general?

Just that I've seen ISTPs be less picky and more adventurous with women than INTPs generally. True for all S and N types for the most part.

 

[Turniphead]

Not that it necesarrily means anything, but your posts seem to be Intuition heavy when I stick them in here:
http://www.uclassify.com/browse/prfekt/Myers-Briggs-Perceiving-Function

 

[deadpixel]

Why is it so hard to believe that someone's N and S can be pretty well balanced? I have a lot of S but I also have a lot of N, but if I have more N than S even if its just 10 percent more am I not more ONE than the OTHER?

 

[Spirit]

Some are, some aren't. I haven't noticed any patterns except younger people don't care about the hardware the way us experienced folks do, because they are growing up with supercomputers.


Just that I've seen ISTPs be less picky and more adventurous with women than INTPs generally. True for all S and N types for the most part.

It could be something or nothing but I think it is important that I put it down incase there is something I need to look at later.

Not that it necesarrily means anything, but your posts seem to be Intuition heavy when I stick them in here:
http://www.uclassify.com/browse/prfekt/Myers-Briggs-Perceiving-Function

I'll check it out and give it a review.

Why is it so hard to believe that someone's N and S can be pretty well balanced? I have a lot of S but I also have a lot of N, but if I have more N than S even if its just 10 percent more am I not more ONE than the OTHER?

A healthy person could use all four functions synergistically. I wouldn't use the percentages of an test as an indicator. I would analyze actual day to day behavior and why I made the choice.

 

[deadpixel]

It could be something or nothing but I think it is important that I put it down incase there is something I need to look at later.




I'll check it out and give it a review.



A healthy person could use all four functions synergistically. I wouldn't use the percentages of an test as an indicator. I would analyze actual day to day behavior and why I made the choice.

I know that when I first took the test a couple of years ago my life was chaotic when I was dating an esfp who was a dancer, I started dating this dancer to escape the emotional turmoil I was feeling from the breakup of my previous relationship with a nice "good girl", which only obviously started its own set of new problems. During this time I tested as an ISTP, I also know that I was in a grip and feeding off of grip experiences.

Grip- “Healthy” psychological functioning, according to Elaine Schallock, involves starting from the top of the functional stack (i.e., with the dominant function) and proceeding downward. In other words, we allow our best developed function to lead the way. Less healthy functioning, which Schallock describes as “jumping the stack,” involves leading with the goals or desires of the inferior function.

For example, Intuition as an inferior Intuition may manifest not as creative possibilities, but rather as worry over every possibility that can go wrong. Sensing may manifest not as attention to details, but rather as an obsession with them.

Characteristics of an unhealthy INTP look like this
- Avoidance of responsibility.
- Lack of morals.
- Uncaring and cold.
- Drinks a lot and likes to get into trouble.
-threw caution to the wind and did whatever I wanted without any thought of consequences
-lost all respect for myself and allowed myself to get used and misused.
-complete loss of feeling..
-refused to deal with any problems. I knew they were there, I just didn't have the ability to face up to them to move past it.
-sought out attention in any way, even if it was ill obtained.

This pretty much describes me to a T when I was in the grip for two years.

Now that I've been perfectly happy for the last few years with the most stable my life has ever been, I identify more with N than S. A lot of this may be due to the fact that ive been thinking more about my future and the consquences of my choices and actions of my EVERY move more so than I ever have before.

 

[Spirit]

Not that it necesarrily means anything, but your posts seem to be Intuition heavy when I stick them in here:
http://www.uclassify.com/browse/prfekt/Myers-Briggs-Perceiving-Function

I reviewed several emails in my sent folder from various periods of my life from 2001 to current. Many of the emails "uClassy" as Sensor and a few are intuitive. I do think writing can be impacted by who you are reading or listening to. I spend a lot of time reading intuitives and their hypothesis.

 

[scorpiomover]

Objective of this thread is to brainstorm ideas surrounding why an INTP could be an ISTP.

This would happen when an ISTP mistakes Se for Ne and Si for Ni, because of his background and experiences. Take Leonard from The Big Bang Theory:

Leonard was born in May 1980 in New Jersey. Not much is known about his early life. He has two siblings: a younger brother named Mike and an elder sister that we don't know the name of (The Maternal Capacitance, S2E15). At age eight his mother embarrassed him in front of the school by making him give back his science fair ribbon at the ceremony. He said it was his first science fair and had to give the ribbon back because he had done "Do Lima Beans React Better to Classical Music?". His brother had previously done "Do Lima Beans Grow Worse to Rock N' Roll?" (The Pants Alternative, S3E18) . His father was an anthropologist who spent more time with a 2-year-old Etruscan boy than with Leonard, who then says "I hate that boy" when he recalled this (The Fish Guts Displacement, S6E10). He did not celebrate his birthday or Christmas as a child (The Peanut Reaction, S1E16) due to his parents wish to study the holidays for their "anthropological and sociological implications on society." (The Maternal Congruence, S3E11). The family wrote research papers for Christmas and they were returned graded with his stocking. (The Santa Simulation, S6E11) As Leonard was a nerd, he was bullied badly as a youth and he stopped growing in the eighth grade. One Easter his mother sent him out on an Easter egg hunt without putting out any eggs to see how long he would search for them. Before he went to Princeton, his parents put him in advanced placement classes, and sent him to learn cello, "getting me beaten up enough", as he described himself (The Peanut Reaction, S1E16). Johnny does play the cello.

Leonard became a scientist, because his family are scientists. He followed family convention. He does experiments like his brother's experiments and like other scientists have done. He's an ISTP, in a family of NTs.

July of 2013 Architect said he has suspected i was an ISTP based on my bodybuilding past.

Depends on why you did it. For instance, Arnie is often typed as an INTJ. An ISTP would get into body-building, just because he likes the feeling of exercising, and wants to look good "for the honeys". Also, because he doesn't want to get fat.

An INTP would get into body-building, because (a) he's exploring different ways of exercising, (b) he's trying to understand why people get into body-building, (c) his Ti showed him that it's important to be healthy, and it's important to be muscular to obtain a mate that he finds attractive, and his Ne has exhausted every other option and come to the conclusion that gaining a muscular physique is the best option for that, or, for other reasons that I haven't thought of.

The important difference is in the approach. The ISTP builds his knowledge and understanding of body-building concretely, by learning more from sources he considers reputable, and then putting them into motion. He continues as long as he continues to have the situation and impression that it's helping him. The ISTP might get chatting to someone at the gym about body-building, have a few laughs, and pick up a few tips, while keeping on pumping iron and taking a shower.

With an INTP, the main focus is on the learning. Body-building is the means by which to understand physiology, the nature of attraction, and such things. An INTP might get chatting to someone about how body-building helped him get a girlfriend, and become so engrossed in the conversation, that he completely forgets about why he went to the gym in the first place. If the conversation is really fun for the INTP, it will probably jump from body-building, to girlfriends, to what sort of demands girlfriends place upon him, to how much money the guy had to spend on his girlfriend, to how much that impacted his income, and from there, to a general analysis of how the present state of the economy has affected everyone's income. The INTP might even suppose a new theory about how economic patterns of boom-and-bust affect relationship choices in an unusual and unexpected way.

There are precious few examples of INTPs on TV. To see examples of Ne, you have to think of ENTPs. Contrast Leonard's attitude with Howard Wolowitz's attitude. When Leonard invites Bernadette to come see his electron accelerator in "The Gorilla Experiment", Howard remarks, "I practically invented using fancy lab equipment to seduce women." That's Ne for you, thinking about the same stuff as everyone else knows, but in a completely different way to anything that people would normally imagine. Half the time, it's sheer idiocy. Half the time, it's pure genius. No way to know which, until you examine each idea.

I thought that I had introverted sensing but that could be me recognizing something I read before and a pattern of sensations that I produce a likely result. i am not sure that means I am intune with my senses. Nor do I have an incredible memory for past details. These are a couple of the markers for SI.

Intuitives struggle to retain information that isn't conceptually related to another concept they are familiar with. Rote learning usually doesn't stay in their brains. ISTPs retain the details, if they so want. They just usually don't see the point of retaining lots and lots of useless information, when by getting on with things, they don't really need the information anyway.

ISTP "I see in images. For example, when I am racing, I can "sense" the distance between cars and make a calculated decision while in traffic based on the speed of the cars where the right path of passing through multiple lanes will get me to a spot on the road. Just know the right path. I am very aware of myself in space, I have good balance and anything connected to me is an extension of myself. When I was a basketball player, I could dribble well with both hands and i could shoot well with either hand. i can also write and shoot guns with both of my hands. I recognize when things are out of place." Could these things be more SE than NE?

With SPs, the translation process between the senses and the motor skills is seamless, because both are plugged directly into the sensory system. SPs don't need to "think about when to turn". They just do. Interestingly, INTJs have also reported that they can drive fantastically, but only when not thinking about what they're doing, because their Se is in the subconscious. This gives the ISTP a kind of seamless perfect driving skill, where the ISTP clearly knows what he is doing, and can act precisely when he needs to, but in a way that clearly makes sense to everyone. See Jason Statham's driving in any of his films.

Ne gives a kind of psychic phenomena to sports and driving. One doesn't exactly know when to turn beforehand. But it's like one has a 6th sense of what will happen, how the other cars will move in response to your car and the other cars around them, and so Ti can calculate a perfect moment when one can pass between the vehicles, when at any other moment, the car would be crushed. This gives the INTP's driving a kind of craziness to it. If you don't follow the INTP's subjective logic in the situation, it looks like he'll get someone killed. But he almost never does. For some reason, he almost always escapes collision at the last moment, in a way that allows him to achieve his objective, that couldn't happen otherwise.

Put simply, the ISTP is a good driver. The INTP drives like he should not be able to drive at all, but does remarkably well.

Architect spoke of Ne as being scatter brained. I have never thought of myself as scatter brained. I am constantly analyzing something I have seen or read in my mind. I am in my head but before I think about an idea I need research first. Sometimes I need to look at information I have already seen before. I can resynthesize the information as I read it again based on the current framework I am in. I am not looking at the information based on previous frameworks. I am in the moment reviewing the information like it is the first time I have seen it. All I recognize is that there is a pattern.

Ne is brainstorming. It appears to be scatter-brained thinking to others. But in INTPs, it's auxiliary. The method in the madness. The INTP is the guy who looks like he's completely out-of-it, but has a reason for everything he does that seems out of place. Others don't see that, unless he explains it to them, and then, his explanations become long-winded and overly detailed, considering everything.

The ISTP is much more likely to be scatter-brained, in that he'll just choose to do something because it seemed to make sense at the time, and then not worry if it turns out to be wrong. But he'll appear to be not that scatter-brained to others, because he formulates his ideas in a very concrete way.

Going back to the body-building example, the ISTP will follow the rules of body-building. He may eventually develop improvements is his methods, based on solid reasoning, backed up by empirical observation and practice. E.G. he may realise that slower reps builds up his muscle quicker. He does his reps slightly slower, and everyone sees the improvements.

The INTP will come up with a wholly new idea that he's taken from a completely different area, and then will apply that, ignoring how it seems to others. E.G. the INTP may investigate Yoga, and come to the conclusion that isometric exercise is more efficient than isotonic exercise. On that basis, he then completely changes the way he exercises, focussing on doing a few reps with very little weight, but holding the pose for as much as 2 minutes for each rep, while focussing on his breathing to maximise oxygenation. He'll be panting like he's trying to make the entire room hear his every inhalation and exhalation, while doing reps as if he's become ridiculously slow. He's got excellent reasons for what he's doing. But he looks ridiculous, and looks like he's wasting his time. Everyone thinks he's off his rocker.

Other reason I could be an SE user. I understand how to cook well. I am enjoy fine dining but for the sake of doing something new. It was an experiment that I enjoyed. I know why the outfits work together I understand fashion. It seems INTP's are known for not having a fashion sense. I choose not to be fashionable but I know how and why it works.

Oddly enough, the topic of fashion and INTPs came up here. Quite a few INTPs appear to value fashion.

I identified with the INTP because of the introspective analysis of systems and programs. I did not have a clear understanding of NE and SE. For that matter, I still do not have a firm handle on how these functions work. I seek the truth and I will keep searching.

Ti-Se = "Intense reasoning, verified by direct empirical observation and practice."
Ti-Ne = "Intense reasoning, filtered by extrapolation of observed patterns from outside sources and personal experimentation."

You're either verifying your ideas by observation and practice, or by extrapolation and experimentation. I leave you to decide which ones you do.

 

[Spirit]

This would happen when an ISTP mistakes Se for Ne and Si for Ni, because of his background and experiences. Take Leonard from The Big Bang Theory:Leonard became a scientist, because his family are scientists. He followed family convention. He does experiments like his brother's experiments and like other scientists have done. He's an ISTP, in a family of NTs.

Depends on why you did it. For instance, Arnie is often typed as an INTJ. An ISTP would get into body-building, just because he likes the feeling of exercising, and wants to look good "for the honeys". Also, because he doesn't want to get fat.

An INTP would get into body-building, because (a) he's exploring different ways of exercising, (b) he's trying to understand why people get into body-building, (c) his Ti showed him that it's important to be healthy, and it's important to be muscular to obtain a mate that he finds attractive, and his Ne has exhausted every other option and come to the conclusion that gaining a muscular physique is the best option for that, or, for other reasons that I haven't thought of.

The important difference is in the approach. The ISTP builds his knowledge and understanding of body-building concretely, by learning more from sources he considers reputable, and then putting them into motion. He continues as long as he continues to have the situation and impression that it's helping him. The ISTP might get chatting to someone at the gym about body-building, have a few laughs, and pick up a few tips, while keeping on pumping iron and taking a shower.

With an INTP, the main focus is on the learning. Body-building is the means by which to understand physiology, the nature of attraction, and such things. An INTP might get chatting to someone about how body-building helped him get a girlfriend, and become so engrossed in the conversation, that he completely forgets about why he went to the gym in the first place. If the conversation is really fun for the INTP, it will probably jump from body-building, to girlfriends, to what sort of demands girlfriends place upon him, to how much money the guy had to spend on his girlfriend, to how much that impacted his income, and from there, to a general analysis of how the present state of the economy has affected everyone's income. The INTP might even suppose a new theory about how economic patterns of boom-and-bust affect relationship choices in an unusual and unexpected way.

There are precious few examples of INTPs on TV. To see examples of Ne, you have to think of ENTPs. Contrast Leonard's attitude with Howard Wolowitz's attitude. When Leonard invites Bernadette to come see his electron accelerator in "The Gorilla Experiment", Howard remarks, "I practically invented using fancy lab equipment to seduce women." That's Ne for you, thinking about the same stuff as everyone else knows, but in a completely different way to anything that people would normally imagine. Half the time, it's sheer idiocy. Half the time, it's pure genius. No way to know which, until you examine each idea.

Intuitives struggle to retain information that isn't conceptually related to another concept they are familiar with. Rote learning usually doesn't stay in their brains. ISTPs retain the details, if they so want. They just usually don't see the point of retaining lots and lots of useless information, when by getting on with things, they don't really need the information anyway.

With SPs, the translation process between the senses and the motor skills is seamless, because both are plugged directly into the sensory system. SPs don't need to "think about when to turn". They just do. Interestingly, INTJs have also reported that they can drive fantastically, but only when not thinking about what they're doing, because their Se is in the subconscious. This gives the ISTP a kind of seamless perfect driving skill, where the ISTP clearly knows what he is doing, and can act precisely when he needs to, but in a way that clearly makes sense to everyone. See Jason Statham's driving in any of his films.

Ne gives a kind of psychic phenomena to sports and driving. One doesn't exactly know when to turn beforehand. But it's like one has a 6th sense of what will happen, how the other cars will move in response to your car and the other cars around them, and so Ti can calculate a perfect moment when one can pass between the vehicles, when at any other moment, the car would be crushed. This gives the INTP's driving a kind of craziness to it. If you don't follow the INTP's subjective logic in the situation, it looks like he'll get someone killed. But he almost never does. For some reason, he almost always escapes collision at the last moment, in a way that allows him to achieve his objective, that couldn't happen otherwise.

Put simply, the ISTP is a good driver. The INTP drives like he should not be able to drive at all, but does remarkably well.

Ne is brainstorming. It appears to be scatter-brained thinking to others. But in INTPs, it's auxiliary. The method in the madness. The INTP is the guy who looks like he's completely out-of-it, but has a reason for everything he does that seems out of place. Others don't see that, unless he explains it to them, and then, his explanations become long-winded and overly detailed, considering everything.

The ISTP is much more likely to be scatter-brained, in that he'll just choose to do something because it seemed to make sense at the time, and then not worry if it turns out to be wrong. But he'll appear to be not that scatter-brained to others, because he formulates his ideas in a very concrete way.

Going back to the body-building example, the ISTP will follow the rules of body-building. He may eventually develop improvements is his methods, based on solid reasoning, backed up by empirical observation and practice. E.G. he may realise that slower reps builds up his muscle quicker. He does his reps slightly slower, and everyone sees the improvements.

The INTP will come up with a wholly new idea that he's taken from a completely different area, and then will apply that, ignoring how it seems to others. E.G. the INTP may investigate Yoga, and come to the conclusion that isometric exercise is more efficient than isotonic exercise. On that basis, he then completely changes the way he exercises, focussing on doing a few reps with very little weight, but holding the pose for as much as 2 minutes for each rep, while focussing on his breathing to maximise oxygenation. He'll be panting like he's trying to make the entire room hear his every inhalation and exhalation, while doing reps as if he's become ridiculously slow. He's got excellent reasons for what he's doing. But he looks ridiculous, and looks like he's wasting his time. Everyone thinks he's off his rocker.

Oddly enough, the topic of fashion and INTPs came up here. Quite a few INTPs appear to value fashion.

Ti-Se = "Intense reasoning, verified by direct empirical observation and practice."
Ti-Ne = "Intense reasoning, filtered by extrapolation of observed patterns from outside sources and personal experimentation."

You're either verifying your ideas by observation and practice, or by extrapolation and experimentation. I leave you to decide which ones you do.

While I think about what you wrote, what kind of personality types write the typology tests? Why do they struggle with Ni, Se and Fi statements? They use the most vague statements to describe what these functions are doing.

For example, Se is more than just being physical. It is about making some object an extension of yourself. They often use the phrase, they like to be active. I think that is only half of what is happening.

 

[Analyzer]

Spot on post scorpiomover. The way you described Ne vs Se is exactally how I see it as well. Both Ne and Si are pretty similar but Ne appears random to outsiders as far as the methodology. The same with Si and Ni. Activities and interests is not correlated directly with functions but moreso how you perform them.

This is also why the notion that INTPs dont participate in "sensor" activities like bodybuilding or fashion comes from. The INTP would just approach it in a totally different way which might seem too different for INTPs to normally pursue, as they see others(sensors) partake it in a manner that they don't find attractive.

 

[Spirit]

Here is two posts from my 2005 journal. I had been training "seriously" for bodybuilding for 6 months

I had spent plenty of time researching building muscles but instead of lifting weights at this time I was focusing all my efforts on basketball. After a break from serious basketball, I started playing around with weight training using it to get out of doing military PT.

(posting as minimal of backstory as possible here)

Here are two posts from my blog.

3-19-2005

Weekend log

I have been sore this week my biceps are screaming and my back feels really good. I am hoping for some new growth in both those areas. I noticed also that since I am not lfiting with spotters I tend to lift less weight but I have never felt better. We will see how the story goes. I will probably stop posting lifts till I get my strenthg up a little....well maybe posting only the 3 cores exercises

Protein
My projected protein for last week was 210. I averaged about 239 on workout days and 185 on non workout days. This week I want to increase protien by 30 and see how that goes.
So I am shooting for 215 on non workout days and 270 on workout days
Carbs
My projected carbs was 3 servings non workout days and 5 servings workout days. I dont plan to change this much maybe add more vegetables to my diet.
Fats
My projected Fats was get 3 servings a day. My plan this week is to increase fats to 7 servings. That means 3 flax 1000 pils, 2 serv of olive oil, 2 peanut butter sandwiches/handful of nuts.

Supplements
2500 mg l-arginine
2 Kre pills on non workout day; 2 Kre pills morning, preworkout and postworkout.
2 multi's
Flax pill
100% ON Whey

Current stats 5'9 3/4 175 upper arms 15 3/4 chest 42 waist 29.5 neck 16 3/4 calf 15.5









Here is a post that i made back when i had been training for 6 months back in 3-31-2005

back, traps and biceps

close-grip shrugs 205

chins 2xfailure
pullups 2xfailure
bent rows 3x8 185
tbar rows 2x8 110
hammer t-bar rows 2x8 110
rev grip pulldowns 1x10 130
pulldowns 1x10 130
Pullovers 2x8 85

Wide db curls 2x8 40
crossbody Hammer curls 1x8 35

workout feedback
The workout felt pretty good. I mixed up the exercise a little so I could get more stimulation over my whole back(back is my favorite to work). I did the exercises really slow and I tried to contract my muscles with a good stretch. I rested between 30 sec to 1 min and I was so sore by the time I got to biceps that I could barely lift the 40's. A great for me workout nonetheless. By the way my chest is still sore from monday's workout.

wake up 2 Kre pill, 3 pills nox2
0900 2 scoops protein Shake, 1/2 cup of oatmeal, fruit, multi

1045 4 eggs vegetables 3 corn tortillas/2 flour tortilas

1200 2 pills Kre-Alkalyn, 2500mg l-arginine/3 nox2 (workout days)
1230 protein Shake (1/4 cup oatmeal 2 scoops protein 1 serving fruit)
1330 workout
1430 Postworkout drink s or turkey sandwich and yogurt
1500 can of tuna, PB and J 100% whole wheat bread
1630 protein shake
1900 grilled chicken salad flax seed oil/ tuna or 5 egg and tortillas and green beans
2200 protein shake & apple or banana, shredded wheat, multi or tuna/rice maybe
2330 Cottage cheese and peaches
0000 bed

Nutrition feedback
My microwave has gone out on me so I have unintentional change foods I eat. So basically I think my carbs are down a bit between 275 and 300. My protien remains high I have been between 275 and 300 everyday. I am hoping to get my carbs a little higher. I have pretty much been eating on this type of schedule. I need to drink more water (drinks 32ounces in desperation)

Progress
My weight 178(according to the jacked up scale in my room weighed firstthing in the morning) waist is 30.5 chest 43 upper arms 16. Because I am not gaining much bodyfat I will start to post measurements at least once a week. I can still see my abs pretty good.

mar 6 05
5'9 3/4 174lb
Waist 29.5
Arms 15 3/4
Chest 41 3/4
calves 15 1/4

mar 31 05
weight 178
waist 30.5
arms 16
chest 42 1/4 (it pumped up to 43)
calves 15 1/4

hmm how long will it take for me to get to a 45inch chest and 17 arms with a 31.5 waist the race is on

 

[Spirit]

Ni - Drenth writes, "Much of this process occurs rather passively and subconsciously, allowing Ni users to know things without a full realization of how they know them. This is one of the inherent challenges of intuitive knowing, being able to translate what can often be an amorphous intuition or image into a more rational, communicable form."

Personality growth states, "Introverted Intuition forms an internal map and framework of how things work. The map is slowly adapted and adjusted over time to allow the user to get a better sense of the “big picture of things” and what steps to take to get the desired outcome."


Computers / Video Games
Ni - Each time the programmer works on the code, they are unconsciously taking notes about what works and are building to what they see is correct code. They may not be able to explain why they are recognizing this pattern but they can see it all building to something aesthetic. Key point is that what they are building they do not know. It is after physically trying over and over again that they can build the code.

It is the physical action of performing the task that is teaching them what they will need to know. They build on the experience of performing a task in their unconscious mind and this creates this "gut" "instinct". I don't know why or when I learned how to do this but let me be in the physical place and I can show you.

Fe - Cognitive Processes states "we feel pulled to be responsible and take care of others' feelings, sometimes to the point of not separating our feelings from theirs.


PersonalityGrowth states "has a tendency, whether conscious or not, to keep tabs of who has helped who more"
"They have strong emotions for those they are close to, and will go out of their way to make them feel good."

Computers/Video games

Selecting video games - the reluctant hero aka the battering ram

Fe - The user may select games where there are disasters and they are the only person that can save the day. Logic states this must happen to solve the problem. Will solve the problem in a physical way. do not know why but compelled to act to help others. Won't ask what they need but use logic to determine what they need and act upon it. Will be naively heroic but will not know why they care about others. Not afraid to keep trying over and over again. Their "gut" tells them they need to do it.

 

[Spirit]

Determining level of influence of functions and stages of your life.

Drenth 3 phases

Phase 1 Childhood - 20's: TiSe
Phase 2 Late Teens - 30's: Fe tapping into Ni for clarification
Phase 3 30's and beyond: Awareness, balance and control of Dominant and inferior relationship - TiFe

Phase 1

Ti as a kid. I must know Why does this work why does it work that way.
Se as a kid. I need to explore my environment so I can figure out why things happen the way they happen. Let me touch it and look at it.

Ti/Se for a kid is I must explore my environment and have new experiences to understand why things happen the way they do. It is not the activity or physicality that creates the "thrill" it is the analysis of the activity that is the thrill. I need to go "there" or do "this" because it will help me figure out something. It is not for the sensation of the activities, it is to analyze the pieces or details of the activity.


Ti is about focus and analyzing the framework and details but the application of this focus is from hands on activities Se. I am going to focus on analyzing how I can manipulate myself or an object. Example, if I am a basketball player, I will breakdown the mechanics of shooting a basketball. I will know why each step is important, the footwork, hand placement and body control. I will record the responses to this activity and make continual improvements on the activity to its "purest" form.

The feedback for my analysis is from physical interaction with something. A strong desire to analyze why something works and why it does not.

TiSe activities - Constant state of improving a system through an activity "learned through doing"

• Completing merit badges to have the experience but focusing on activities that have an action component. breaking those components down to find the details.
• Learning to dance but breaking each movement into techniques. Those techniques into steps to find the flaws in the movements.
• Building radio controlled car and analyzing the structure of the framework or design. Looking at all of the possible improvements or flaws

(add more activities for teenagers)

Side notes:

• This is different from Ne because they improve an idea in their minds by working the idea in abstract form.
• This different from Te because they are looking to create a step by step order to accomplish the activity. Not seeking improvement but order.

 

[Base groove]

We are of similar height, build, and strength. I thought I was ISTP for about six months before determining I am probably a Te user.