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Brainstorming the idea of being an ISTP and not an INTP

Red myst

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Yes, I am sure there are some others that were not happy with the names they were given either.
Perhaps they should have called istp "the surgeons".
I have always felt I fit the description of an istp in an occupational sense, but being a book worm and Internet troll in my spare time made me think more intp. Watching documentaries and Ted Talks, instead of sports or DIY shows. It was confusing me. But I did not quite identify with a hardcore intp type either. I just figured that my mbti scores that only showed a slight preference for N over S was the reason for that.


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Architect

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Already I hate the term Mechanic for ISTP. It is only part of what an ISTP can do with the skillset. The term Mechanic was probably created by person that does not have Sensing and cannot recognize why an ISTP would be a great detective or surgeon.

There's a inherent bias built into typology, probably because it was created by intuitives. This is one of the reasons everybody wants to type as a intuitive, because it seems like you're a dumb person lacking imagination if you're a sensor, it seems like.

Don't worry though, I'm sure the INTP "Engineer" has bothered many INTP's who aspire to be a lofty "Mathematician" or "Scientist"
 

Red myst

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There's a inherent bias built into typology, probably because it was created by intuitives. This is one of the reasons everybody wants to type as a intuitive, because it seems like you're a dumb person lacking imagination if you're a sensor, it seems like.

Don't worry though, I'm sure the INTP "Engineer" has bothered many INTP's who aspire to be a lofty "Mathematician" or "Scientist"

It seem like every type would approach typology with their own bias. But some will be able to be naturally more objective about it than others. Some people will only ever have a superficial understanding of type.

I am curious, if anyone had ever met a dumb intp.....
I mean, if you get a room full of intp's, are there some that are going to be picked out as sensors because the majority just don't see how they could be N's?

Nt working in tandem con be your preferred method of functioning, but that does not mean you can use it well.

Does a more aware nt recognize a less aware nt and know that he has not matured enough to use nt to the best of his ability, or is it possible that he would be just written off as a sensor?
 

Spirit

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There's a inherent bias built into typology, probably because it was created by intuitives. This is one of the reasons everybody wants to type as a intuitive, because it seems like you're a dumb person lacking imagination if you're a sensor, it seems like.

Don't worry though, I'm sure the INTP "Engineer" has bothered many INTP's who aspire to be a lofty "Mathematician" or "Scientist"

I understand that. I think it is also because most people do not understand the cognitive functions and what they are at their best. This is what I am trying to do with explaining aux Se. I want to explain it in practical terms to describe what it really is and what it feels like to be in ISTP zone and how ISTP Ti is different from INTP.


Btw, I just search for the truth and it does not matter to me whether I am an Intuitive or Sensor. I have been doing so many interviews and research on myself that I will find the answer. Along the way, I will leave breadcrumbs for others to find their truth.
 

Spirit

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It seem like every type would approach typology with their own bias. But some will be able to be naturally more objective about it than others. Some people will only ever have a superficial understanding of type.

I am curious, if anyone had ever met a dumb intp.....
I mean, if you get a room full of intp's, are there some that are going to be picked out as sensors because the majority just don't see how they could be N's?

Nt working in tandem con be your preferred method of functioning, but that does not mean you can use it well.

Does a more aware nt recognize a less aware nt and know that he has not matured enough to use nt to the best of his ability, or is it possible that he would be just written off as a sensor?

Define dumb INTP.


I don't see it that way. Personality type is not like an IQ score. It is how you see or interact with the world. The smarter person is going to have more experience or tools than another person but it would not mean the other person is less of a personality type. Personality type is a preference and its not percentages.

For example

When you go to take a piss can you do the act of pissing more than the next guy?(Not to be confused with the excretion of liquid from your bladder)
 

Spirit

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One more thing. I read this example of ISTP vs INTP and I think it would be great to put it here
(I am always looking for examples to put here)


Ah, the main thing that really stuck out to me and made me realize that I was an ISTP is that ISTPs like examples.
So say in some class, like math. The textbooks usually give two ways of explaining: the theory, and just explain the formula and what it does. And then they provide an example.
INTPs will prefer the theory/formula, while ISTPs will prefer the examples. Because we can just look at a couple of examples and figure out the right way to do it ourselves.
Also, I think INTPs would be a bit quieter, simply because they area stuck in their heads and always thinking. ISTPs simply like efficiency and strive to say the most using the least amount of words (even though I'm pretty verbose on ******, I'm not as wordy IRL). -kafke
 

Red myst

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Define dumb INTP.


I don't see it that way. Personality type is not like an IQ score. It is how you see or interact with the world. The smarter person is going to have more experience or tools than another person but it would not mean the other person is less of a personality type. Personality type is a preference and its not percentages.

For example

When you go to take a piss can you do the act of pissing more than the next guy?(Not to be confused with the excretion of liquid from your bladder)

Well, for example, that was really a stupid post I put up there. I was musing to myself that intp is stereotypically considered very intellectual, and I wondered how this intellect would manifest itself in people of poorly educated populations where intellect is not nurtured. No resources like books or media. All types are born all around the world into different cultures. And they manifest differently. They are like seeds planted in different climates, some climates are favorable to intp, some are not. Anyway it's not really important. I understand personality is not IQ. Maybe I will start a thread later after I have figured out a good way to ask the question.


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Red myst

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One more thing. I read this example of ISTP vs INTP and I think it would be great to put it here
(I am always looking for examples to put here)


Ah, the main thing that really stuck out to me and made me realize that I was an ISTP is that ISTPs like examples.
So say in some class, like math. The textbooks usually give two ways of explaining: the theory, and just explain the formula and what it does. And then they provide an example.
INTPs will prefer the theory/formula, while ISTPs will prefer the examples. Because we can just look at a couple of examples and figure out the right way to do it ourselves.
Also, I think INTPs would be a bit quieter, simply because they area stuck in their heads and always thinking. ISTPs simply like efficiency and strive to say the most using the least amount of words (even though I'm pretty verbose on ******, I'm not as wordy IRL). -kafke

Examples help, but it also helped me to have the answers to some of the problems. So I could check myself. If my answer were wrong, I could go back and rework the problem till I made it come out to the answer. I learned from playing with the problem till I got the right answer. And this helped me understand the theory. It is an example of how I mentioned in an earlier post that I am more of a reverse engineer. Completed examples were not enough for me. If that makes any sense.


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Spirit

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Phase 1 Childhood - 20's: TiSe
Phase 2 Late Teens - 30's: Fe tapping into Ni for clarification
Phase 3 30's and beyond: Awareness, balance and control of Dominant and inferior relationship - TiFe

Mature adult
Ti - Makes us reason experientially. This means we are testing ideas to see the causes and effects. It is not linear or straight logic it is conceptual. It is what we do when the obvious step by step process does not provide the answer. When a rule is in place but it does not solve the problem. Ti is necessary to think outside the framework or rules of the game. It operates in the land of probabilities.

Reality for those in this world is stimulated by the external world. It is very much about how they interact with it that helps them figure out the possible options in the current situation that has far reaching consequences and is not widely understood.

Obsession with a few main interests at a time

TiSeNi - using physical ability in the current situation to explore a conceptual problem. Like banging on a keyboard programming code and by effort the idea comes to the user to see the new pattern. Improvising in a physical way in the moment


You need as many experiences using your senses to solve problems

Examples of sensate ability and reviewing material that actually intrigues and teaches me something for my hobbies/work.

Plastic Surgeon's aesthetic skill with tools
Knowing the right amount of spice in food by smell or measuring by taste.
Drifting around a corner in a car
Teaching yourself how to solder a circuit board
Gardening a rare plant
Painting
Collecting rare objects
Reading body language
Forensics
Overclocking or rather stabilising factory overclocked hardware
Rooting phones
Simulators
Designing choreography
Rubik's Speedcubing


If you learn subjects just so they can help you be able to solve problems and these problems are usually in a few areas if interest at a time.

You are obsessed with a one or two big picture topics at a time, learning by performing the task.

The adaptoid, learning not through language but by observation, imitation, and practice. - a realistic form of Adaptive muscle memory and Reactive Adaptation



SeTi for me

It like learning to cook but by actually doing the work. I could watch several shows on cooking and then go in the kitchen with the gist of the recipe and create my own version of the recipe and it taste good. It is knowing how to change the seasoning profile without needing to follow the step by step instructions. Doing it by smell and sight.

It is a heightened version of using your senses to improvise. You cannot teach this and when you try to explain how you do it, the only thing you can say is you just have it or you don't. It is much easier to get in this "zone" of improvising than a typical person may be able to do.

Fe late 30's and beyond - You understand how you feel and can express it to others. You don't need to be blunt because experience taught you to let people down without destroying them. You find ways to contribute to the community without being the champion of the outspoken and coordinator of the community.

You become more interested in society and keep your cynical tertiary Ni nature a bit more open to possibilities of positive interactions. You may want to be the best at what you are doing but you keep that in a better perspective than you have in the past.

You finally recognize your experience gives you an edge over the younger version of yourself and you appreciate experiencing as much as you could handle from life. You finally have the ability to tear up from an emotion.
 

Red myst

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Phase 1 Childhood - 20's: TiSe
Phase 2 Late Teens - 30's: Fe tapping into Ni for clarification
Phase 3 30's and beyond: Awareness, balance and control of Dominant and inferior relationship - TiFe

Mature adult
Ti - Makes us reason experientially. This means we are testing ideas to see the causes and effects. It is not linear or straight logic it is conceptual. It is what we do when the obvious step by step process does not provide the answer. When a rule is in place but it does not solve the problem. Ti is necessary to think outside the framework or rules of the game. It operates in the land of probabilities.

Reality for those in this world is stimulated by the external world. It is very much about how they interact with it that helps them figure out the possible options in the current situation that has far reaching consequences and is not widely understood.

Obsession with a few main interests at a time

TiSeNi - using physical ability in the current situation to explore a conceptual problem. Like banging on a keyboard programming code and by effort the idea comes to the user to see the new pattern. Improvising in a physical way in the moment


You need as many experiences using your senses to solve problems

Examples of sensate ability and reviewing material that actually intrigues and teaches me something for my hobbies/work.

Plastic Surgeon's aesthetic skill with tools
Knowing the right amount of spice in food by smell or measuring by taste.
Drifting around a corner in a car
Teaching yourself how to solder a circuit board
Gardening a rare plant
Painting
Collecting rare objects
Reading body language
Forensics
Overclocking or rather stabilising factory overclocked hardware
Rooting phones
Simulators
Designing choreography
Rubik's Speedcubing


If you learn subjects just so they can help you be able to solve problems and these problems are usually in a few areas if interest at a time.

You are obsessed with a one or two big picture topics at a time, learning by performing the task.

The adaptoid, learning not through language but by observation, imitation, and practice. - a realistic form of Adaptive muscle memory and Reactive Adaptation



SeTi for me

It like learning to cook but by actually doing the work. I could watch several shows on cooking and then go in the kitchen with the gist of the recipe and create my own version of the recipe and it taste good. It is knowing how to change the seasoning profile without needing to follow the step by step instructions. Doing it by smell and sight.

It is a heightened version of using your senses to improvise. You cannot teach this and when you try to explain how you do it, the only thing you can say is you just have it or you don't. It is much easier to get in this "zone" of improvising than a typical person may be able to do.

Fe late 30's and beyond - You understand how you feel and can express it to others. You don't need to be blunt because experience taught you to let people down without destroying them. You find ways to contribute to the community without being the champion of the outspoken and coordinator of the community.

You become more interested in society and keep your cynical tertiary Ni nature a bit more open to possibilities of positive interactions. You may want to be the best at what you are doing but you keep that in a better perspective than you have in the past.

You finally recognize your experience gives you an edge over the younger version of yourself and you appreciate experiencing as much as you could handle from life. You finally have the ability to tear up from an emotion.

With 0 experience in cooking, I would have to build experience before I could start improvising the ingredients for a particular desired outcome. Once I am fluent in the basics, I can start to experiment and see how manipulating the ingredients will effect the outcome with some predictions in mind.
But you have to have a good sense of taste and smell to use as tools.

My question is, while it definitely takes Se to cook, It seems like having a familiarization with the cooking process Si, also needs to be there.

I have wondered about Chefs. They are so particular about how their dish taste, and while I am sure it is good, I wondered how many people could actually appreciate the effort of the Chef. It seems like only Se types who have a highly refined sense of taste could get the most out if it.
Like wine.... Wine that I tend to dislike turns out to be some pretty inexpensive stuff. Wine that I tend to like turns out to be pretty moderately priced, however more pricey wines do not taste any better. It seems to be that wine connoisseur has a raw talent or Cognitive function that can be refined to discriminate between different flavors, And there others who are simply "all thumbs" then it comes to such task. I thought I might be helpful to start a thread asking (what type are you, and what are you "all thumbs" at?) and (what type are you and what things did you take to like a "fish takes to water")
 

Spirit

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Quick answer. Se is about heighten senses. The Ti and Ni allow the user to understand the flavor profile based on what makes sense according to the palette and sense of smell. Si is about ordering past logical data.

This is not what happens when you are being creative. You are referring to duplicating what was previously created. TiSe is about your senses making connections and the Ni critique. My ex was a great cook but all she did was duplicate recipes from her past. Si user. I see it happening all the time.

Se is sensory improv.
 

Red myst

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Quick answer. Se is about heighten senses. The Ti and Ni allow the user to understand the flavor profile based on what makes sense according to the palette and sense of smell. Si is about ordering past logical data.

This is not what happens when you are being creative. You are referring to duplicating what was previously created. TiSe is about your senses making connections and the Ni critique. My ex was a great cook but all she did was duplicate recipes from her past. Si user. I see it happening all the time.

Se is sensory improv.

How much weight does Se have on hand eye coordination? I ask because I think I am beginning to understand something here. I have very good manual dexterity and tactile feedback. This allows me so work very effectively with tools and machines, and play my guitar. But I have a below average knack when it comes to athletics. The only thing I did well at was Judo. Again, this is more about leverage and dexterity, like high school wrestling. Riding bikes, running, jumping all ok. But skipping rope, riding skateboard, playing any kind of ball was very awkward and I was noticeably an underachiever compared to my peers. So this is another reason I felt for a while that I must be intp. I am clumsy in certain areas. But from what I am gathering from you, I am reconsidering that I do have heightened senses, and that my deficiency in hand eye coordination is related to something else and my mistake was lumping them all together. I am wondering if my strong Ti is messing with my hand eye coordination or timing. I am trying to think about something that really some other function would just do. There is no thinking, just do.
 

Spirit

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How much weight does Se have on hand eye coordination? I ask because I think I am beginning to understand something here. I have very good manual dexterity and tactile feedback. This allows me so work very effectively with tools and machines, and play my guitar. But I have a below average knack when it comes to athletics. The only thing I did well at was Judo. Again, this is more about leverage and dexterity, like high school wrestling. Riding bikes, running, jumping all ok. But skipping rope, riding skateboard, playing any kind of ball was very awkward and I was noticeably an underachiever compared to my peers. So this is another reason I felt for a while that I must be intp. I am clumsy in certain areas. But from what I am gathering from you, I am reconsidering that I do have heightened senses, and that my deficiency in hand eye coordination is related to something else and my mistake was lumping them all together. I am wondering if my strong Ti is messing with my hand eye coordination or timing. I am trying to think about something that really some other function would just do. There is no thinking, just do.

As you trust your Ni more and let your Ti take a backseat, you will be able to trust those sensory connections you are making. your Ti is going to figure the most efficient way to process your information for the task at hand.

The natural athletes are the Se Doms so I wouldn't label your clumsiness a lack of Aux Se. Remember, learning while doing on the "fly", recognizing the what is around us and analyzing information Ti based on observation and performing the action, is ISTP skillset.

Judo, seems like a Ti type of sport where someone with Se would be able to use their heightened sense to recognize what the other person is doing in relation to them. The difference in skateboarding and judo is that you actually have your hands on the person controlling them. Your hands making the other person a "tool" or extension of yourself just like when you are playing a guitar and it is an extension of you.


Think of what all of the sports you have trouble with have in common? I could tell you but lets see if you Ti is buzzing.
 

Red myst

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Connectedness, feedback. There is no feedback from ball sports, no extension of myself. Skateboard I can't figure because I would expect that to be an extension of my self. Ive got good balance, but not on a board. I also cannot play video games. I thought I could do MS flight simulator, and driving games, but I suck. I doesn't feel real, I don't feel connected to the game. I can drive the hell out of a real car, or taxi a real aircraft around the airfield, but I can't work with the controls on video games. Pinball I can play. I feel connected when I play pinball, but not arcade video or home video games. Also tried rc aircraft, but have a lot of trouble working the controls when the plane is flying towards me as opposed to away from me. It's hard for me to think on my feet, unless I feel connected. I can bowl, I can shoot hoops, like play P.U.T.O.U.T. But not a one on one game. My dribbling gets sloppy and my shots go wild under stress. But I could play the hell out of Chess when I was a pre-teen!
 

Spirit

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Connectedness, feedback. There is no feedback from ball sports, no extension of myself. Skateboard I can't figure because I would expect that to be an extension of my self. Ive got good balance, but not on a board. I also cannot play video games. I thought I could do MS flight simulator, and driving games, but I suck. I doesn't feel real, I don't feel connected to the game. I can drive the hell out of a real car, or taxi a real aircraft around the airfield, but I can't work with the controls on video games. Pinball I can play. I feel connected when I play pinball, but not arcade video or home video games. Also tried rc aircraft, but have a lot of trouble working the controls when the plane is flying towards me as opposed to away from me. It's hard for me to think on my feet, unless I feel connected. I can bowl, I can shoot hoops, like play P.U.T.O.U.T. But not a one on one game. My dribbling gets sloppy and my shots go wild under stress. But I could play the hell out of Chess when I was a pre-teen!

Exactly, extension of self.

Se Doms do not spend a lot of time on the internet talking about this stuff because they would rather be talking about how they dominated someone and watching other people they admire dominate other people. They are probably not interested in why they did it, they just go out and do it because that "feels" natural to them.

The closest introverts and intuitives are going to get to understanding what Se "feels" like would be from those that use it in their Aux.
 

Red myst

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Exactly, extension of self.

Se Doms do not spend a lot of time on the internet talking about this stuff because they would rather be talking about how they dominated someone and watching other people they admire dominate other people. They are probably not interested in why they did it, they just go out and do it because that "feels" natural to them.

The closest introverts and intuitives are going to get to understanding what Se "feels" like would be from those that use it in their Aux.

So, when people see me, they see the Se in me, because I use aux S in an extroverted fashion, but not to the extent that a Se dom does. So they see this guy who is "handy" with tools. The guy who can fix their stuff. If they get to know me well enough, I begin to reveal more of my Ti, my inner thoughts about stuff.
I seem quiet, distant, reserved, because I spend a lot of time in my head thinking deeply or intently about stuff. Some times this is directed at the task, and a lot of the time directed on something entirely different and I am performing the task in an autopilot mode. This I used to think was "N" type behavior, because I seem aloof to others. Its like when I'm doing routine stuff like driving, I put my body into automatic pilot mode and ponder over personal thoughts. I get to where I am going, and do not even remember the drive. However during the drive somehow, I notice certain thing while not even looking for them. Like I will notice a classic car of some sort coming up from behind in the distance. I have an eye for them, but I do not intentionally look for them. They just stand out even when I am in deep thought while driving.
You talked of making a game out of driving on your commute to keep in interesting,
because it was an otherwise boring drive some 40 minuets long. I have done this on cross country trips, but mostly I kind of detach from the situation mentally. But I have never gotten into an accident while doing this daydreaming type of thing. which I do almost all of the time on familiar roads. I know people who "drive" the car. When I ride with them, they are constantly adjusting speed, switching lanes ect......Not aggressively or reckless, just "busy" like. Which I am under the impression would be considered "living in the moment" Were as I for the most part, kind of let the car drive itself and I just make subtle changes where needed, and detach. These are two distinct driving styles, and I wonder if this can also be a distinction between Dom Se and Aux Se. I feel very connected to the road and my environment in a car. I tend to get speeding tickets because I tend to be oblivious to the speedometer. I drive within the context of the traffic conditions. So when there are no cars on the road, I will drift up in speed until at some point I will notice things are passing by a little too fast. Or I feel it through the car, the sound of the exhaust, road noise, etc. And that will snap me out is if and I will glance at the speedometer. But I have been driving for many years, and many of those years were commuting 1 hour or more to and from work. Never been in an accident although I don't seem really "present" while driving.
 

Spirit

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So, when people see me, they see the Se in me, because I use aux S in an extroverted fashion, but not to the extent that a Se dom does. So they see this guy who is "handy" with tools. The guy who can fix their stuff. If they get to know me well enough, I begin to reveal more of my Ti, my inner thoughts about stuff.
I seem quiet, distant, reserved, because I spend a lot of time in my head thinking deeply or intently about stuff. Some times this is directed at the task, and a lot of the time directed on something entirely different and I am performing the task in an autopilot mode. This I used to think was "N" type behavior, because I seem aloof to others. Its like when I'm doing routine stuff like driving, I put my body into automatic pilot mode and ponder over personal thoughts. I get to where I am going, and do not even remember the drive. However during the drive somehow, I notice certain thing while not even looking for them. Like I will notice a classic car of some sort coming up from behind in the distance. I have an eye for them, but I do not intentionally look for them. They just stand out even when I am in deep thought while driving.

Yes, this is how I would describe it as well.

You talked of making a game out of driving on your commute to keep in interesting,
because it was an otherwise boring drive some 40 minuets long. I have done this on cross country trips, but mostly I kind of detach from the situation mentally. But I have never gotten into an accident while doing this daydreaming type of thing. which I do almost all of the time on familiar roads. I know people who "drive" the car. When I ride with them, they are constantly adjusting speed, switching lanes ect......Not aggressively or reckless, just "busy" like. Which I am under the impression would be considered "living in the moment"

I would say Se Doms drive for the rush of the moment, they want their heart rate to climb, they want to challenge the road and make it a competition.

Were as I for the most part, kind of let the car drive itself and I just make subtle changes where needed, and detach. These are two distinct driving styles, and I wonder if this can also be a distinction between Dom Se and Aux Se. I feel very connected to the road and my environment in a car. I tend to get speeding tickets because I tend to be oblivious to the speedometer. I drive within the context of the traffic conditions. So when there are no cars on the road, I will drift up in speed until at some point I will notice things are passing by a little too fast. Or I feel it through the car, the sound of the exhaust, road noise, etc. And that will snap me out is if and I will glance at the speedometer.

Exactly, Se Dom's make greater race car drivers because they are willing to push the limit to their Senses and let the thinking be in the back ground. Where as an aux Se (ISTP) user puts their thinking in push the limit and their senses in the background adjusting as an extension of their thought process. Se Dom take sensing like a drug type state.

But I have been driving for many years, and many of those years were commuting 1 hour or more to and from work. Never been in an accident although I don't seem really "present" while driving.

See bold.
 

Red myst

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See bold.

Then, when I am late for an appointment, or I get those random urges to feel the rush of acceleration and I purposely drive the car and live in the moment, that's when I am behaving like Dom Se, putting thinking in the back seat, but only for a short person of time because it is not my preference? I can do it, and do it well, but prefer not to.

So how long did it take you to decide you were istp rather than intp? I enjoy the people on this forum. It's the Ti that is attracted to it for me. But maybe also a way to exercise inferior Fe.
 

Spirit

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Then, when I am late for an appointment, or I get those random urges to feel the rush of acceleration and I purposely drive the car and live in the moment, that's when I am behaving like Dom Se, putting thinking in the back seat, but only for a short person of time because it is not my preference? I can do it, and do it well, but prefer not to.

So how long did it take you to decide you were istp rather than intp? I enjoy the people on this forum. It's the Ti that is attracted to it for me. But maybe also a way to exercise inferior Fe.

Well, to be honest (Ti Implied), Architect said something months ago that began a re clarification of my thought process. So I began to analyze myself, my mind, my intentions and my history. At first, i thought, how could I be wrong and then I figured what the hell, lets just throw everything out and start over as if I didn't know anything about typology. So I would say several months. Recently, after doing my latest historical interviews, I began to be more convinced of what I can do naturally.

INTP Forum seems to be a place for people who use the Ti or Ni in their stack. It seems the main connection we all have. People with those functions in their stack are most likely to stick around here. Most of the time it is an opportunity for those with Ti to work out their analytic processing, which is why there are so many random threads that keep digging deeply into Fe subjects.
 

Red myst

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Well, to be honest (Ti Implied), Architect said something months ago that began a re clarification of my thought process. So I began to analyze myself, my mind, my intentions and my history. At first, i thought, how could I be wrong and then I figured what the hell, lets just throw everything out and start over as if I didn't know anything about typology. So I would say several months. Recently, after doing my latest historical interviews, I began to be more convinced of what I can do naturally.

INTP Forum seems to be a place for people who use the Ti or Ni in their stack. It seems the main connection we all have. People with those functions in their stack are most likely to stick around here. Most of the time it is an opportunity for those with Ti to work out their analytic processing, which is why there are so many random threads that keep digging deeply into Fe subjects.

I am getting clearer on the functions thanks to you and this site. There are no good sites for istp. Or let's say, none that I really relate to very much. Perhaps they are not really istp. They seem more like what you would call estp. Of if they are istp, then you seem more like some sort of hybrid istp/intp. They don't have near as many members or post, and don't seem as reflective or insightful in their post.
 

Spirit

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I am getting clearer on the functions thanks to you and this site. There are no good sites for istp. Or let's say, none that I really relate to very much. Perhaps they are not really istp. They seem more like what you would call estp. Of if they are istp, then you seem more like some sort of hybrid istp/intp. They don't have near as many members or post, and don't seem as reflective or insightful in their post.

I would say those other sites are are mostly ESTP's that for some reason are in denial. Their focus is usually on how badass they are, we're such a rebel/risktaker and being blunt. ESTP want to embarrass you and then party with you later.

Case in point a thread from an ISTP forum

"So are istp's usually aggressive personalitys?"

This screams underdeveloped ESTP.



ISTP's I would think just don't care about being blunt. They understand if they need to say something, there are multiple ways to say it and often times its pointless to say something blunt because it does not get them what they want which is analyzing the situation/topic. ISTP's can be "risk takers" if it is necessary to analyze a situation.
 

Red myst

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I would say those other sites are are mostly ESTP's that for some reason are in denial. Their focus is usually on how badass they are, we're such a rebel/risktaker and being blunt. ESTP want to embarrass you and then party with you later.

Case in point a thread from an ISTP forum

"So are istp's usually aggressive personalitys?"

This screams underdeveloped ESTP.



ISTP's I would think just don't care about being blunt. They understand if they need to say something, there are multiple ways to say it and often times its pointless to say something blunt because it does not get them what they want which is analyzing the situation/topic. ISTP's can be "risk takers" if it is necessary to analyze a situation.

Exactly!!!!!!!
 

Architect

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INTP Forum seems to be a place for people who use the Ti or Ni in their stack.

Did you mean Ne? The forum is Ne heavy, look at the wide diversity of ideation (far flung religion to hard core science, politics, health etc). A Ni dominant group would probably concentrate on fewer topics.
 

Spirit

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Did you mean Ne? The forum is Ne heavy, look at the wide diversity of ideation (far flung religion to hard core science, politics, health etc). A Ni dominant group would probably concentrate on fewer topics.

Which Ne type does not have Ti that visits the forum often?
 

redbaron

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The worst part of all this is that you've overlooked the most compelling evidence of your ISTP-dom that one could possibly find. It starts with your forum alias. From here, I believe I can definitely prove that you're an ISTP.

S P I R I T

Now all we have to do is swap the 1st and 4th letters. Then swap the 2nd letter with the 5th letter. Now swap the 5th and 6th letters. Now all you need to do is swap the 1st and 2nd letters, and you've created this combination.

I R I S T P

Which could be translated as, "I R ISTP", which phonetically reads as, "I are ISTP".

Grammatical errors aside, I think this constitutes clear and indisputable evidence that when you created your forum account, you were unsconsciously seeking psychic equilibrium with your internal being. You knew in an indescribale way that somehow the choosing of this specific name would eventually lead to the perceptual elucidation of your true self.
 

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Grammatical errors aside, I think this constitutes clear and indisputable evidence that when you created your forum account, you were unsconsciously seeking psychic equilibrium with your internal being. You knew in an indescribale way that somehow the choosing of this specific name would eventually lead to the perceptual elucidation of your true self.

Dat tert Ni doh
 

Spirit

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The worst part of all this is that you've overlooked the most compelling evidence of your ISTP-dom that one could possibly find. It starts with your forum alias. From here, I believe I can definitely prove that you're an ISTP.

S P I R I T

Now all we have to do is swap the 1st and 4th letters. Then swap the 2nd letter with the 5th letter. Now swap the 5th and 6th letters. Now all you need to do is swap the 1st and 2nd letters, and you've created this combination.

I R I S T P

Which could be translated as, "I R ISTP", which phonetically reads as, "I are ISTP".

Grammatical errors aside, I think this constitutes clear and indisputable evidence that when you created your forum account, you were unsconsciously seeking psychic equilibrium with your internal being. You knew in an indescribale way that somehow the choosing of this specific name would eventually lead to the perceptual elucidation of your true self.


:eek:

I r NEO?


:ahh:

Dat tert Ni doh

LMAO ...
Dat last name of peace
 

Spirit

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Neuroscience of Personality 1.0 - ISTP Review

http://intpforum.com/showpost.php?p=431762&postcount=64
@spirit, did the book help you decide b/t IxTP at all?

[IDROITE][/IDROITE]

Yes, definitely not an INTP. What I share with INTP is the TiFe grip.

I am an ISTP
Looking at the different sections of the brain I proposed a simple test to determine whether is was an ISTP or INTP.

I tested this hypothesis by performing a physical task by trying to sort out a problem. While I performed the physical task bunch of ideas came running to my mind. It's as if my mind came alive and it felt natural. I'm going to do more tests but I see promise.

I can get in the zone quickly by engaging myself physically by seeing something and reacting to it. My processing seems to slow down when I'm trying to explain something while doing it. My guess is that is why ISTP make good responders because they can react and be creative while in motion. I can figure things out by trying them.

Let me point out something I can understand most theories in my mind, but explaining them takes more energy. I sort the information I need to get the job done but to interpret it in a way others can understand I have to do multiple drafts of a topic. Even after all this work someone else would have to make it flow for the masses.

Maybe this is why an ISTP seems like the silent type. Takes too much energy to explain what just makes sense and then have "some loser" tell them they missed a verb or step in the explanation.

I am going to write an ISTP review in my thread. (Edited for you pleasure, ribbed for mine)

Just wanted to add this post from the other thread here. Obviously, I want to focus on Typology according to ISTP's. My upcoming review will reflect this.

I want to point out that I agree with Architects opinion that ISTP's have an inclination to athletics or situations where visual/spatial Body kinesthetic abilities are need to solve problems.
 

Spirit

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Which role of warrior is most like an ISTP?

Policeman
Assaisian
Vigilante

If you selected Assassin, you would be correct. An ISTP wants to be proficient in his skills and is most excited to solve a problem in a physical way. The ISTP ability to detach emotions and outside distractions would assist them in solving whatever crisis situation was to come because there ability to keep calm and improvise their skills.

Policeman - Justice does not drive an ISTP
Vigilante - Vengeance does not drive an ISTP
 

Spirit

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Re: Neuroscience of Personality 1.0 - ISTP Review

*General Observations to date - Nardi

In light of the data, what is the neurological basis of Jung's theory and Myers work;

1. Every individual is unique, a blend of personality type and life background.

2. There are clear correlations to the Jungian Framework. These correlations take to observe in the lab (Several hours, not minutes).

3. Each of the eight Jungian cognitive process can be defined as a pattern of holistic neurological tendencies, with various regions tapped when needed.

4. Statistical summation fo activity over time reveals one's PREFERRED regions and thus one's POSSIBLE personality type. However, quantitative features like whole brain states are truly key and not captured by an aggregate statistic.

5. The eight cognitive processes relate to how the neocortex works as a whole. For example, the extroverted thinking process doesn't just help us use resources efficiently. It shows us as efficient use of brain resources.

6. Personality shows up in multiple ways, including 1) Threshold of activation (how much stimulus is needed to get a region going, 2) A synergy of motivation and competence, 3) Speed of response time to various tasks, and 4) Whole brain patterns such as what sends us into a state of flow.

7. The whole brain states, one of which reflects "flow" (creative expertise). A person's specific expertise can be related to his personality type pattern and/or background and training (dance, music, etc).

8. Besides one's lead cognitive process, there are multiple supporting process. For example, ISFP has FI as a lead process, and it appears that Se is second, Ni as third. etc In contrast, ISFP don't use much of Ti and Ne.

9. Post - experiment is self reflective questions and both introverted and extroverted activities in controlled and free environments, are necessary to truly understand the full scope of what is going on in the brain.

10. Neuroscience is not like pencil -paper assessments such as MBTI or th PTI or ISCA. It delivers raw data rather than inferred data. Thus, a study of five dozen (60) people is valid and illuminating.

11. Posterior regions are more active for people who prefer introversion. People who prefer Sension show more alpha activity (8.0 - 14.0 Hz). For people who lead with a lead perceiving process (Se, NE, Si, Ni), Fp2 is more active than Fp1.

12. Sex matters somewhat and culture matters for learned tasks like math. As for age, I've done no longitudinal research and limited myself to young adults.

13. Watching a brain in action is a profound experience.
- Excerpt from the book "Neuroscience of Personality 1.0"


ISTP

Lead Process is Introverted Thinking ; Decide based on theories, models, definitions and principles
Support Process: Focus on first hand experience and enjoy sensory data

Tests
Meditation
Signing your name
Solving Math Problems

Patterns observed:
Dissociated State
Sensory Immersion
Concrete Reasoning
Low effort listening

Tests - continued
Mental Rotation
Visual Analysis
Ball Toss
Dating game
Speed Date
Future Visualization
Creative word play
Visualize your hobby
Response to tragic letter
 

Spirit

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Re: Neuroscience of Personality 1.0 - ISTP Review

ISTP


Lead Process is Introverted Thinking ; Decide based on theories, models, definitions and principles
Support Process: Focus on first hand experience and enjoy sensory data

Case study included in the book is a 20 something ISTP. I found some strong similarities to my experiences. I wonder if there are case studies available in the detail like the one in the book for all of the "types" online somewhere.



Tests
Meditation
-Draw a circle in your brain

Signing your name
- sign your name with both your preferred hand and non preferred hand. Note the difference between the two. Sensors find it less unusual to but prefer to use their preferred hand for real application.

Solving Math Problems
- Ixtp like to work their problems based on a model or techinique and then improve/check their work


Ti is about weighing different variables and perspectives.
-Side note: This is what is suspected when visiting this forum. The desire to look at lots of topics is a Ti thing and not an Ne thing.


Patterns observed:
Dissociated State
- Typically, shown when people are solving problems, argue, or don't like someone. For ISTP, this could be a default state.

Sensory Immersion
-high levels of activity when performing a physical activity. This level of brain activity is similar to when someone wins a game or listens to music

Sensors experience this more than Intuitives

Concrete Reasoning
-Motor region section of the brain lights up when using a kinesthetic method to solve a math problem or handle object blindfolded.

Low effort listening
-Low auditory stimulus when listening.

Tests - continued
Mental Rotation
Rotating objections in your mind that you have seen in 2d or 3d diagrams. (de-constructing the objects to flat objects and separating them in the piece to solve the problem)

Visual Analysis
-Still life drawing of two people and subject must express one's opinion of the portrait

Ball Toss
Juggling back and forth with a ball. Less instant skill and more sporadic flow.

Dating game
photographs
Three questions:
1. How much money do you spend on this person
2. Rate attractiveness 1-10
3. In a few words come to mind

Using literal interpretations to describe a person's character


Speed Date
-Dissociated state while being cordial. Brain activity when speaking on topics of interest. Return to dissociative state when topic is change to no interest.

Future Visualization
-Image your life 10 years from now. Visualizing in images what will happen based on want vs being creative.

Creative word play
-Use a two word phrase that could be a two real connecting words as a phrase or two words as a made up phrase, in a sensible sentence. For example "Fish Leash and "philosophy oven"
- grammatically correct sentences that sound unusual when herad but not read. For example "she turned to handle the door" or "he was open to the window"

Visualize your hobby
-The more you know how to do something, the more steady activity you have in you brain
-Higher activity for activity that is required to anaylize the material
- Low level of activity for quick reflecs and tactical thinking responses to suprises (SP)

Response to tragic letter
-Dissociation of emotions as a default. If not first hand experience did not immediately respond to the emotions of the issues.
-Debate Iraq war
Had not researched topic. Offers no opinion.

Take aways:
Better learning experience using visual - Spaitial approach than auditory or visuals without movement

Learn by doing
Not interested in hosting strong beliefs or fanciful ideas.
Respond to others by being independent, objective and with concrete data.
Uses intuition and strategy as a surprise.


In a future post I will explain how this mess I wrote above can help you determine if you are an ISTP.
 

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Are you familiar with Temple Grandin? Is she some sort of autistic ISTP? Are her inventions some kind of representations of ISTP intellectual processing?

I envy Se in many places but there are places where I detest it. I don't know how much INTPs use lateral combinatory thinking but it is the way how I roll. It took a while to build conceptual mapping how to operate in life. My tought process is not visual but I can visualize general shapes but no details. My visual memory is very poor. That is the Ne taking informaation in abstract blocks, I think. If I have to visually think something I start with patterns in order to build crappy image in my head.

I think it is good for IxTP to take a look into socionics. ISTPs and INTPs PoLR are entirely different (Ne vs. Se). You can see PoLR in Grigori Perelman's (INTP) case where he detested (PoLR Se) Field's medal and Millenium prize to the extremes. You can see same thinking patterns in Richard Feyman (ENTP) interviews where he didn't like the idea of receiving the Nobel prize. I have tought like that before. Screw honor! I don't want to be famous if I achieved something. No Se instincs at all.
 

Spirit

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Q
Are you familiar with Temple Grandin? Is she some sort of autistic ISTP? Are her inventions some kind of representations of ISTP intellectual processing?

I envy Se in many places but there are places where I detest it. I don't know how much INTPs use lateral combinatory thinking but it is the way how I roll. It took a while to build conceptual mapping how to operate in life. My tought process is not visual but I can visualize general shapes but no details. My visual memory is very poor. That is the Ne taking informaation in abstract blocks, I think. If I have to visually think something I start with patterns in order to build crappy image in my head.

I think it is good for IxTP to take a look into socionics. ISTPs and INTPs PoLR are entirely different (Ne vs. Se). You can see PoLR in Grigori Perelman's (INTP) case where he detested (PoLR Se) Field's medal and Millenium prize to the extremes. You can see same thinking patterns in Richard Feyman (ENTP) interviews where he didn't like the idea of receiving the Nobel prize. I have tought like that before. Screw honor! I don't want to be famous if I achieved something. No Se instincs at all.

Quick take.

After looking at a video of her, temple grandin, I see her as an ISFP rather than an ISTP.
 

Spirit

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Looking at Socionics to understand MBTI or Jung Typology will likely confuse an most Se users trying to understand the framework for an ISTP. If you are saying look at the descriptions for Cognitive Functions in Socionics then that would be more helpful than by "type".
 

Spirit

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A couple quick notes about ISTP

Introverted Thinking: Gaining leverage (influence) using a framework. Detaching to study a situation from different angles and fit it into a theory, framework or principle. Checking for accuracy. Using leverage to solve a problem.

This is one of the reasons that seems likely to cause ISTP to think the are INTP. Receiving information and looking at it from multiple points of view is NOT Ne. It is Ti. This is why a Ti user is interested in some many different topics because they are obsessing about these frameworks that they are drawn to create to see the universe.

Not Ne:
  • Researching
  • Curiousity about various topics
  • Having an opinion
  • Being smart
  • Being an intellectual
  • Getting good grades
  • Posting on INTPForum

Ne is

  • Actively looking for patterns in situations and exploring them
  • Defining an idea and tracking how it changes through multiple situations
  • Obsession with seeing how things will change in the future
  • Using the observed patterns in a constant desire to intellectually make an impact in the future
  • Long range planning
  • Speculating
Se is

  • Looking for context in the present moment
  • Using what you see, hear, touch, smell to determine the situation
  • Absorbing information from all around you
  • Improvising
  • Looking at the current situation and take it and solve a problem based on what you see, hear, taste, touch and smell.
  • Lets do it now
  • Short range planning - Wait, there is a plan?
  • Doing
 

Base groove

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Not Ne:
Researching
Curiousity about various topics
Having an opinion
Being smart
Being an intellectual
Getting good grades
Posting on INTPForum

Ne is

Actively looking for patterns in situations and exploring them
Defining an idea and tracking how it changes through multiple situations
Obsession with seeing how things will change in the future
Using the observed patterns in a constant desire to intellectually make an impact in the future


Contradiction identified.

Generally I see what you're saying and I think you're mostly correct however Ne is not a function that would "make use" of observations to "make an impact" ... particularly an intellectual impact ....

Even you have misidentified P and J functions in a post that was intended to dispel certain common misconceptions.

What of The NFP types? Do they use Ne to intellectually impact the future? No.
 

Spirit

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Contradiction identified.

Generally I see what you're saying and I think you're mostly correct however Ne is not a function that would "make use" of observations to "make an impact" ... particularly an intellectual impact ....

Even you have misidentified P and J functions in a post that was intended to dispel certain common misconceptions.

What of The NFP types? Do they use Ne to intellectually impact the future? No.

hmm. Good point. I'll look into this a bit more.
 

Base groove

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hmm. Good point. I'll look into this a bit more.

I think the confusing part is that Ne is often credited as being a 'catalyst for change' and that people with a preference for Ne are often dissatisfied with the current state and would like to implement change (i.e. impact the future) like you have said.

It must be the purist in me.
 

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Which type am I?

I am an ESFJ aren't I?
 

The Void

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[SPOILERS]Hoohoo I can make spoilers even being banned from making spoilers!!
[/SPOILERS]
 

The Void

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[SPOILERS]Hoohoo I can make spoilers even being banned from making spoilers!!
[/SPOILERS]

shit wrong code. I knew something like that would happen. Such psychic.
 

Spirit

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I think the confusing part is that Ne is often credited as being a 'catalyst for change' and that people with a preference for Ne are often dissatisfied with the current state and would like to implement change (i.e. impact the future) like you have said.

It must be the purist in me.

I like this.

This has inspired me to create a post about troubleshooting ISTP vs INTP. I'll get to it at some point. Just like my ISTP test.
 

Spirit

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A few more notes about being an ISTP

  • A strong aversion to being micromanaged

  • Does not like unsolicited advice
    For example, do not tell me how to drive. I don't give a shit what you think about my driving. I am not doing it for you.
  • If you have not proven yourself to me personally, I consider your opinion or previous "glories" as inflated propaganda. I don't care whether you do not care that I don't respect you until you show me. I will win in this battle.
  • If you are pissing me off, I am calm on the outside but I want to destroy you. I do not because the paperwork would inconvenience me.
 

Spirit

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Before I create the ISTP test here are a few things about an ISTP in the Grip. If you can relate to most of this during portions of your life, you could be an ISTP.

“Securing love or public esteem (Fe) will bring me wholeness. (Personality Junkie - ITP)

This passage is from the book I bought called 16 personality types by AJ Drenth

Obsessiveness/Workaholism
“In the grip” of the inferior function, all personality types are prone to acting compulsively and obsessively. Grip experiences can be difficult to escape, since the less conscious self (i.e., the inferior function) takes over as the driver of the personality. While the content of grip experiences may differ across the types, their basic shape is essentially the same.
For ISTPs (and INTPs), being in the grip often involves workaholism. As T dominants, work (including personal projects and hobbies), comprises a central component of ISTPs’ identity. In doing what they enjoy, ISTPs are naturally very disciplined and thorough.

When they are in the grip, however, they become obsessive, perfectionistic, and unable to let go of whatever they are doing. During such times, ISTPs may alienate themselves from others, insisting they need more and more time to themselves (this is why ISTPs often test as Enneagram Fives). They become trapped, functioning only in Judging mode (Ti-Fe), while forgoing the Perceiving functions (Se-Ni) in the middle of their functional stack.

As for all types, the process of slipping into grip experiences is often subtle and insidious. For instance, ISTPs may have a goal in mind for what they want to accomplish that day, only to discover the task much larger than they originally imagined. But because a bigger task poses a greater challenge, they take the bait and see if they can still manage to get it done. The problem, of course, is that this essentially locks them into Judging mode, since any deviation into Se Perceiving will preclude them from accomplishing their goal. This includes closing themselves off to other people, who come to be viewed as intrusions or impediments to their productivity. Consequently, ISTPs who are frequently in the grip may end up ostracizing themselves from other people.

What is interesting is that ISTPs, like other types, can be relatively unaware of falling into a grip experience, rationalizing their obsessiveness as being “efficient” or “productive.” Moreover, since grip experiences are fueled by adrenaline, they can feel “good” at some level, allowing for heightened focus and endurance. At the same time, there is a part of ISTPs that knows they are in trouble. When all they can do is compulsively hurl themselves into their work, a part of them realizes this is unsustainable, unbalanced, and potentially destructive.
To compensate for the isolation involved with grip behavior, ISTPs may “crutch” their inferior Fe through their relationships, which provides the reassurance that external Fe support is available should they need it. This is why so many ISTPs (and INTPs) struggle when it comes to balancing their work and interpersonal relationships.

Slippery & Elusive Emotions

For ISTPs and INTPs alike, their Fe is rather naive and childlike. They may be easily moved by cheesy romantic comedies or sappy love songs, anything that incites their subconscious Fe emotions. They can also be easy targets for “love at first sight” sorts of infatuation. They may be particularly susceptible to being wooed by Feeling types (especially FJs), who can bypass their typical channels of logic and appeal directly to ISTPs’ less conscious Fe.

Because of the inferior position of their Fe, ISTPs struggle to intentionally contact or understand their emotions. It’s not they never experience emotions, but only that their emotions seem to have a mind of their own, coming and going as they please. So even if ISTPs are aware of what emotions are appropriate for a given situation, they often do not “feel” them at the time, engendering a sense of awkwardness or discomfort in emotional situations. They may even experience the desired emotion a few hours later, but it's almost as though their emotions get “stage fright” when “put on the spot.” To compensate, ISTPs may try to use their Fe to offer the socially-appropriate words. But without experiencing the emotions directly, they often sound clumsy or contrived in their expressions. At times, this can be difficult for their romantic partners, particularly for FJ types, who desire a reciprocation of authentic emotional expression. But because of their Fe stage fright, ISTPs may not experience their feelings “at the right times” or can have trouble expressing them when they are present.

While ISTPs can certainly have trouble contacting their emotions, they usually have little difficulty overriding or detaching from them. Consequently, ISTPs are less apt to struggle with guilt, regret, or shame in the way that other types might. Others may even be surprised how quickly ISTPs can resume "business as usual" after what most would consider tragic or traumatic circumstances. This should not necessarily be viewed as a flaw in the ISTP, however, but merely a reflection of the unconscious nature of their Fe.

Conflict-Avoidance, Passive-Aggressiveness, & Desire for Affirmation

ISTPs want everyone to feel included and to be treated with fairness and respect (Fe). While not as warm or effusive as FJ types, they are concerned with others' feelings and try to avoid hurting or offending them. They seek to maintain a basic level of harmony in their immediate circumstances.

Fe also contributes to ISTPs’ desire for public affirmation. Fe involves making connections between one’s own emotions and those of others. While ISTPs may not always “feel” what others are feeling, their Fe still desires the sense of social affirmation and validation. Consequently, there are times when ISTPs are helpful or compliant largely for the sake of external approval or to maintain a certain public perception. ISTPs with a strong concern for their image can take social engagements quite seriously. They want others to see them as laudable employees, spouses, parents, or citizens. Their desire for public esteem can also be a motivating force in ISTPs' desire for achievement.

ISTPs’ propensity for conflict-avoidance and need for affirmation, on the one hand, with their need for independence (Ti), on the other, contributes to no small number of relational difficulties. Especially when in the grip of workaholism, ISTPs may feel they don’t need or want other people around. Eventually, they come to a point of feeling miserably imbalanced, which prompts them to reinitiate contact with others, at least until they fall into the grip again. This cycle of alternating between needing and devaluing others is common among ISTPs and narcissists alike.

In the name of conflict-avoidance and preservation of external harmony, ISTPs may do all they can to circumvent directly expressing their frustrations or grievances. Wittingly or not, they view conflict as a potential threat to the relationship they depend on to meet their Fe needs, as well as a threat to the flawless image they seek to preserve. So rather than giving voice (Fe) to their concerns, ISTPs prefer to analyze (Ti) or act on them (Se), sometimes in passive-aggressive ways. They may, for instance, intentionally start spending more time at the office as a passive form of rebellion against their partner. Or, they may make sudden executive decisions without giving others any say or prior notice.

Poor communication can also lead ISTPs to create a convoluted set of assumptions about what their partners think, want, and expect. Unhealthy ISTPs may spin an ever-expanding web of faulty beliefs and assumptions about their partner. In so doing, they may come to resent or otherwise think negatively of their mates, even if largely a product of their own assumptions.

Personal growth for ISTPs involves integrating their Fe through consistent and satisfying use of their Ti and Se. Integrating ISTPs must also must learn to recognize the difference between healthy modes of work versus functioning in the grip of their inferior function. Healthy work for ISTPs includes remaining open to Se experiences and diversions, which can keep them from becoming too one-track minded.

In addition to taking a healthier approach to their work, integrating ISTPs must enhance their self-awareness and communication in their relationships. This includes working to unearth all their implicit assumptions about relationships in general and their partner in particular. It means being willing to dialogue about uncomfortable topics that may produce temporary pain or conflict. It is not until they “clear the air,” learning to be more open and honest with themselves and their partners, that ISTPs will experience true satisfaction and wholeness in their relationships.

- 16 Personailty Types
 

h0bby1

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A trait in ISTP's over INTP's is that they'll be much more action oriented. For example, with the many ISTP programmers I know, they'll be much more likely to dig in and start writing code, with two feet! While I'll want to sit back, understand the problem, maybe do some modeling ... all of which will disgust them.

i think i'm istp, but i'm not that extreme either, it doesn't disturb me at all to jump into monstruous coding project two feet in, and i generally manage to get where i want to get at, but also with experience, i can sort of sense a bit the part that i could plan before, or that i need to clarify in my mind, or to have a reference of organisation to work on big project which can avoid to go back and forth between different parts to remember the implementation and visualizing the big picture, it can help to save time and avoid errors, specially on big projects

but i guess instinctively, i would rather start building the thing, at least to do all things i can do without problems, and then doing many testings or eventually benchmarking on different possibilities when it come to things that can become a problem, i guess i'm more at ease with seeing the thing running, and making test on the fly, and then studying the structure that give best result to detect potential problems or bugs, rather than doing the whole thing on paper, even if also with experience, i can also build some automatism to avoid pitfall or other, even if i don't mind reading some advanced programming theories either, i tend to be more comfortable seeing the thing running, and analyzing logs or debug sessions, rather than analyzing a diagram, even if for big projects diagrams can help, and are even necessary, it doesn't disturb me to jump into big projects without having extensive and exhaustive design


maybe istp tend to be also a bit maniac on precision and accuracy to describe mechanic process, and diagram or theory are rarely precise enough in detail, and only give approximated idea of what's really going on which can be frustrating a bit for istp maybe

for me analyzing an error log, or a debug session or a memory dump is much more useful than watching a model diagram of something that crash lol
 

h0bby1

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one thing i have read about istp also is that they can be a bit obssessed with Proprioception, and body sensation, and anything that disturb their homeostasis even on subtle level will be more likely to disturb them, and they can have weird reaction when they go beyond their stress limit, or when faced with intense emotions because it disturb their homeostasis and Proprioception, and will be more likely to care about the effect of their environment on their well being, and like chilling athmosphere, which is also maybe where their respect of people boundaries and sense of ethics can come from too, because they can project their sensation on other persons, and can be also sensitive on even subtle form of abuse or people overstepping their position
 

h0bby1

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Interestingly it sometimes seems that Bodybuilding is a key differentiator between ISTP's and INTP's. In general, ISTP's tend toward more muscular larger body types and INTP's towards ectomorphic and endomorphic (lean and lightly muscled). This can be extrapolated to other types, but it's one I've observed, not surprisingly due to the fact that INTP's tend towards being less physically active (and eating less) than ISTP's with their stronger Se.

Indeed, I've finally (after some 40 years) gotten into the consistent habit of a regular weight training program. At that it seems impossible to gain any muscle mass - not that I want it, but I am getting stronger with more definition. My ISTP brother though has easily been a life long body builder and is quite large. He also has the common S characteristic that while he is heavily muscled, it's overlaid with a thick layer of fat, so I actually have somewhat more definition.

So I tend to use Bodybuilding as an indicator. Now don't take that to the stupid extreme that "INTP's don't body build". I do - for one. But clearly there is a gulf between the ISTP and the INTP on this one.

i'm not that much into body building, but i always try to keep myself in shape, i guess it's more about working on Proprioception than body building in itself, i prefer to do tai chi or martial art or more useful training also with flexibility and yoga, idk i don't like the whole thing of boby building all together, i find it's not really useful training, not even always that healthy or well balanced, but i enjoyed following some programs from navy seal training things =) but it's not so much like body building mostly to build visible muscular mass, it's more focused at operational training, also with coordination, flexibility, and having well balanced exercises focused at improving a particular capacity, either it's cardio, strenght, flexibility, balance, coordination etc i also did a bit judo competition when i was younger =)

but i like to give myself challenges on physical activity, and to have good awareness of my physical capacities, and to keep them at sufficient level
 
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