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Big Bang Theory (comedy series)

Sensi Star

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I am very surprised after being unable to find a thread dedicated to this show, so I thought I'd start one. Personally I find the premise of this show to be ingenious. It's very original, I can't think of any other series in which geeks/nerds are the main characters.

The characters represent a decent range of geek archetypes. You have Howard, a spineless, perverted, puny Jewish man with an unhealthy attachment to his mother; Rajesh, an Indian with strict Hindu parents, who tries hard to fit in with American culture and is unable to speak to women; Sheldon, a highly introverted, robotic, socially-inept academic; and Leonard, a good-natured, sensitive nerd who actually manages to date "normal" women. Let's not forget the next-door neighbor--Penny--a simple-minded perky blonde from Nebraska who is a waitress aspiring to be an actress, a perfect foil for the geeks.

This is open-ended discussion for the series, such as opinions/reviews, favorite moments/episodes, themes that are relevant to real-life, questions, character discussion, etc.
 

Sensi Star

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Really? No comments on this show?

Well, I was going to ask anyway whether you think Sheldon is INTP or INTJ. It seems the times Sheldon has been mentioned in other threads people say he's INTP.

I personally think he's INTJ.
 

Jesse

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It's alright. There are a few standout episodes (like when they got high) but the geek element doesn't really add anything which might be a good thing.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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Fucking terrrrrible show.
 

lafmeche

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The show more or less entertains me, BUT:
While I applaud the fact that they'll even make a show about geeks, it also irritates me because they try so hard to play into geek stereotypes. It's almost like they're trivializing the introverted, outwardly-dispassionate geek. Because the characters are so weird/crazy, all people that appear to be like them must also be weird/crazy.

It's likely that I'm overanalyzing and I'm sure it doesn't help that I'm a bit jaded with TV. Still, I feel that some real education about differences in personality types would go a long with the INTP-'normy' relations.
 

thoumyvision

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I've so far only met two kinds of people who don't like the show:

1. People who either have little contact with geeks in their normal life, or don't enjoy that contact if they do.

2. Geeks who object to the (admittedly) exaggerated stereotypes presented in the show.

To the first I have nothing really to say, and I doubt any of them are listening here anyway. To the second I would say that, while you may not enjoy the show (maybe it hits too close to home), I would hope you would admit that its huge popularity and the fact that it presents geeks in a very sympathetic manner can do a lot toward getting Ti and Ni types more widely accepted in society.

For myself it hits close to home and I love it!
 

pjoa09

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I like it.

Envy their simple lives...
 

Dimensional Transition

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I love it. One of my favorite shows. It's so cosy and lighthearted, so close to home...
 

BitRogue

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I also enjoy it a lot. It definitely hits a bit close to home. I fall somewhere in between Sheldon and Leonard, character-wise. But most of all I like the nods to all the various bits of geek-dom, from video-games to movies to Sheldon rebuilding his Linux computer to casting real life sci-fi stars like Summer Glau and Evil Wil Wheaton. I think the writers of the show definitely have some inside experience to lean on.
 

Hadoblado

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I have never seen it but I have been likened to one of the characters (I forgot the name) by a gaggle of delightful old ladies at the local badminton center. I also saw an amusing VOD somewhere in which one of the characters had an algorithm for making friends, which hit quite close to home for me and I found it quite funny.

I may give it a go when I have the time, though it does seem like a 'love it or hate it' affair.
 

Minuend

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The characters are too simple, too predictable, too normal.
 

P.H.

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I think it's genius xD Love the humour and the way the characters "grow" (yes, even Sheldon).

I actually like how they stereotyped the geeks.
 

JoeJoe

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There's also "The IT Crowd" I think it's a somewhat older British series. I watched the first episode, but no further...

I love the show as well. About typing Sheldon: I think it's hard to type him, since he also has some "real" disorders, which might be untypical for some types...
 

thoumyvision

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There's also "The IT Crowd" I think it's a somewhat older British series. I watched the first episode, but no further...

I love the show as well. About typing Sheldon: I think it's hard to type him, since he also has some "real" disorders, which might be untypical for some types...

The IT Crowd is great. There are plans to bring it to America, a la The Office, which is fine by me.

Reference is in the comments.

As for Sheldon's type: on the one hand he is disdainful toward applied physics vs theoretical, which points to INTP. On the other, he's a neat freak and a control freak, pointing toward an SJ type. He's probably an INTP with overdeveloped Si and underdeveloped Ne. His ability to notice almost instantly if something is out of place in the home or something has been changed in his calculations points to strong use of Si, overuse of which explains why he's so oblivious to social cues, it's compensation for a poorly developed Ne.
 

RobdoR

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I love the show. I think Sheldon is an ISTJ for sure.

Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock - rocked my world
 

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^ Yeah. (IME) the majority pegs him as INTP, but I see characteristics that suggest he is not:

--He constantly plans everything in advance (INTPs tend to be spontaneous and flexible)
--He's very organized (INTPs are prone to clutter and incomplete tasks)
--He likes to be in control of group decisions (instead of 'behind the scenes' passive action)
--Let's not forget his confrontational style of ego-centrism, e.g. openly insulting the intelligence of others relative to himself (instead of preferring to avoid confrontation)

The only INTP trait I see is his preference of scientific theory over application, but this is outnumbered by the rest (above). So, in light of all this I see INTP as a bad fit. My best guess is either I S T J or I N T J.
 

thoumyvision

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^ Yeah. (IME) the majority pegs him as INTP, but I see characteristics that suggest he is not:

--He constantly plans everything in advance (INTPs tend to be spontaneous and flexible)
--He's very organized (INTPs are prone to clutter and incomplete tasks)
--He likes to be in control of group decisions (instead of 'behind the scenes' passive action)
--Let's not forget his confrontational style of ego-centrism, e.g. openly insulting the intelligence of others relative to himself (instead of preferring to avoid confrontation)

So, in light of all this I see INTP as a bad fit. My best guess is either ISTJ or INTJ.

He takes note of irrelevant details far too often to be an INTJ, their weakest funtion is Se. ISTJ isn't a possibility, ISTJ's are by far the most social of the introverts, due to their view that they have a responsibility to be social. ISTJ's place huge value in being "normal", doing what is right and expected of them. The chance of an ISTJ growing up in a very religious family and later rejecting that religion is highly unlikely, although not entirely out of the realm of possibility. He also works in a very theoretical field, which would drive an ISTJ nuts. An ISTJ's primary function is Si, which is all about their rigidly constructed inner self. Once they have constructed this inner self it is very hard for new ideas to penetrate in a meaningful way. Theoretical physics is all about new ideas and new ways of looking at the nature of the universe.
 

Sensi Star

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^Interesting. I'm open to him not being IxTJ, but I just can't settle with INTP for the reasons listed. I can't think of another profile that is a "best fit".

He seems contradictory and quite hard to type.
 

thoumyvision

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^Interesting. I'm open to him not being IxTJ, but I just can't settle with INTP for the reasons listed. I can't think of another profile that is a "best fit".

He seems contradictory and quite hard to type.

That's because he's not a "normal" INTP. Our normal order of functions is Ti>Ne>Si>Fe, however if Ne gets underdeveloped (which can happen quite easily for INTPs) then Si gets flexed a little more. He probably only uses Ne when working out scientific theory. This is one of our greater weaknesses: using Ne to take in only that information we find interesting in order to feed our Ti. Proper use of Ne is taking in everything (i.e. noticing social cues, noticing when the bathroom needs cleaning, etc.), if we only use Ne to take in information we find interesting our inner logical world becomes warped because we only apply our logic to the limited information we've taken in. Thus Sheldon has devalued human relationships because he has dismissed them as irrelevant without noticing how hugely important they are to most of the population.
 

AlisaD

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A few of my friends whose opinion I value loved it, so I tried watching, was bored to death.
 

scorpiomover

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I guess it's not to everyone's taste. But personally, I find it hilarious. Mind you, I love The IT Crowd as well.

I especially found it funny when Sheldon said that the world would be best off with him as a benevolent despot, as I know someone who actually said that.

As to Sheldon:


Sheldon is a theoretical physicist, and that is much more of the job of an INTP, like Albert Einstein. He also completely lacks social skills, and that also is a trait that is usually associated with INTPs.

However, Sheldon is always judging Leonard's experiments as being derivative, and his hypotheses as being inferior. He has also expressed the sentiment that the world would be much better in a benevolent dictatorship under his rule. These behaviours are quite clearly judgemental, with preference to his judgement. These characteristics, as well as others, are those only found in Js.

So there seems to be 2 ways in understanding Sheldon.

The key note, is WHY Sheldon behaves as he does. He is SURE that he is right, and sees no reason to change his views, no matter what others think. He COULD learn to be more social. He just doesn't see any reason why he should. He COULD test his hypotheses in experiments, and be an experimental physicist. He is sure that his hypotheses are right. He only tests his hypotheses in experiment, in order that he can prove them conclusively to the scientific world, like when he went to the Arctic for 3 months to find a magnetic monopole. But he is still just as sure that magnetic monopoles exist. In Sheldon's introverted world, he is right, and no-one and nothing else matters. So he is a J. He is just SO introverted, that he doesn't even see a need to be involved with the world.

He is thus an INTJ, just with an extreme level of introversion, to such an extent, that he is only interested in his own judgements, and has almost no interest in convincing the rest of the world that he is right.

Of course, this is just my perspective. So if you have more to add, that could change my views, please feel free to add them.
 

IfloatTHRUlife

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The show isn't bad, but sheldon is the only interesting part, everything else is mediocre.

Then again i don't watch TV, i find it boring, so my opinion is kind of irrelevant.

As for Sheldon's type, too hard to say. Scorpio gives a compelling argument that makes me want to say he is right. At the same time, someone as intelligent as Sheldon cant really be typed based entirely on his behavior. Who knows how arrogant one of us would be if we were that intelligent. So i think one clue to typing him would be to look at the advice he gives the others, he is a problem solver(even if he is overly confidant in his results), INTJs do not solve and fix, they build, if it fails, they rebuild.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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@scorpiomover: that whole reasoning was a total non-sequitor.

How do you get J (as in, Ni-Te) from the things you mentioned?
 

Words

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The show is too...too bland. But I agree with this hypothesis that Sheldon is INTP on the basis of displaying Fe whilst maintaining objective dissection of the utility of cultural values and norms, which is the object of Fe. Ti'ng Fe, essentially.
 

scorpiomover

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@scorpiomover: that whole reasoning was a total non-sequitor.

How do you get J (as in, Ni-Te) from the things you mentioned?
NOT Ni. Not Te. J, as in Judgemental.

Sheldon decides how the world should be, and then everyone else is forced to put up with his insane rantings until he wears them down and they give in to him. But all the while, everyone else is agreed that he's wrong. He just refuses to care.

Isn't being so damn sure that you are right, that you force the rest of the world to fit in with your judgement, what being J is all about?
 

Words

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Isn't being so damn sure that you are right, that you force the rest of the world to fit in with your judgement, what being J is all about?
-J as in "MBTI J"?

Being certain and "correcting" people can also come from having the idea that you are objective. [Granted, the INTP is more likely to be "objective" than other types] For example, 1 + 1 = 2. Doesn't that seem unquestionable? Also, adhering to certain social traditions doesn't really make sense if you apply "sense" to it, does it?

The INTP has personally sorted through the logic(TiNe) and the assumptions(Si), how can this person be wrong?
 

scorpiomover

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-J as in "MBTI J"?

Being certain and "correcting" people can also come from having the idea that you are objective. [Granted, the INTP is more likely to be "objective" than other types] For example, 1 + 1 = 2. Doesn't that seem unquestionable? Also, adhering to certain social traditions doesn't really make sense if you apply "sense" to it, does it?
True. I myself have done this often.

But I, and I believe all Ps, tend to rather explain WHY 1 + 1 = 2. If you don't agree with their reasons, then they'll tend to explain their reasons in more detail.

I believe that Js just say that it is, and you have to accept it. or they say that you are crazy. If you ask them why they think that it is so, they will normally give you a short explanation. It's usually one that either makes everything clear, and you agree, or that doesn't make any sense, but that they think is obvious, and expect you to accept it unconditionally.

On reflection,Sheldon DOES actually explain his reasoning for things. But usually, only when asked by Leonard. Leonard sometimes says "Oh. That actually makes sense". But mostly, it still doesn't make any sense. Leonard points this out to Sheldon, and again, Sheldon just dismisses his points.
The INTP has personally sorted through the logic(TiNe) and the assumptions(Si), how can this person be wrong?
I don't claim to understand the Ti system. But I can build on what you've written so far:

I have read before that INTP = Ti-Ne-Si-Fe, and INTJ = Ni-Te-Fi-Se.

If I read you right, that Ti-Ne is logic, and assumptions are Si, then:

Ti = step-by-step logical thinking, following lines of reasoning.
Ne = insights about the external world.
Si are assumptions, sensory 'facts', that only exist in your internal simulations.

INTPs use Ti-Ne-Si thinking, with Ti being dominant. Everything else must fit in with their Ti.

They start with Ti, by thinking things out. Those lines of reasoning, being the dominant function, force them to update their Ne insights into the external world. Then they correct their Si assumptions to fit in with their Ne insights about reality, that were generated by their dominant Ti.

However, because they have reached Si, their internal world, they can now go back to the start point, and use Ti, to again follow lines of reasoning, to reach more insights about the external world, that again allow them to correct their Si assumptions. So they get a feedback loop: Ti-Ne-Si-Ti-Ne-Si-.... This feedback loop continually refines their internal world, that makes it slowly converge to match the external world.

By the same principles:

Se = sensory facts about the external world,
Ni = internal insights, ones that fit with our internal simulation, but are not yet connected with the real world. We can call these subjective insights.
Te = external thinking, either in planning out how to implement one's ideas, or in planning how to test one's ideas in the real world, via experimentation.

INTJs use Ni-Te-Se thinking, with Ni being dominant. Everything else must fit in with their Ni. They start out with Ni, their own views on how things are, subjective insights. They then use Te to test the external world to fit in with their ideas. They then use Se observations to check if it fits.

However, because it starts with i, and ends with e, the loop cannot complete. So they start out with their own insights, based on how they see the world in their internal simulation, and then put it into application, and then, the thought process ends. The judgement is made, and it cannot be changed.

So, from that point on, they have to use Se-Ni-Te thinking, with Ni being dominant. They then take their observations, and go back to their internal world, to evaluate if Ni is correct. However, because Ni is dominant, Se and Te are forced to fit in with that. So they either change their Te, by changing their attempts to change the world to fit in with their Ni, until their Se observations agree with that, or they change their Se observations, until their Se agrees with their Ni.

As a result, INTJs will either keep trying to change the world, until the world acts in accordance with their beliefs, or they re-interpret the data, until the data looks like it agrees with their Ni.

If both are totally impossible, then they will be forced to change their Ni. However, because it is Ni, subjective insight, they will merely pick another way to look at the world, that is still totally based on the way they already see the world, and again try to make the world fit in with the way they see things.

INTPs are effectively, people who change the way they think, until the way they think, agrees with reality. INTJs change the way the world is, until it agrees with the way that they see the world.

In your system, INTP is TiNe=logic and Si=assumptions, the equivalent for INTJ is Ni=hypotheses, and TeSe=keep changing the world until the objective is achieved.

A good example of this, is how Leonard and Sheldon approach dealing with Penny. Leonard's approach is to try to change himself, until Penny likes him. Sheldon's approach is to use NLP to change Penny, until Penny behaves the way he wants her to, like he did when he fed Penny chocolates in an attempt at behavioural conditioning.
 

pjoa09

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LOL.

But he is INTJ.

Face it, Sheldon has a cork up his ass. He has a fucking terms agreement.

Even if I made one it would be in the trash because adhering to it would be a pain in the ass.

He can't improvise for shit and he is orderly. I just don't think these features can ever come to perception. You can be orderly but you would hate it and a change of plans never seem to bother me. I am always late.

I am just saying that these changes would be a modification to INTP behaviour. We have to be forced into it.
 

Sensi Star

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LOL.

But he is INTJ.

Face it, Sheldon has a cork up his ass. He has a fucking terms agreement.

Even if I made one it would be in the trash because adhering to it would be a pain in the ass.

He can't improvise for shit and he is orderly. I just don't think these features can ever come to perception. You can be orderly but you would hate it and a change of plans never seem to bother me. I am always late.

I am just saying that these changes would be a modification to INTP behaviour. We have to be forced into it.

These are reasons I doubted INTP. He's too organized, too narcissistic, too judging of others, never considers the idea that he's wrong.

All of these rigid characteristics point to J. INTPs are more flexible with the way they do things, are more open-minded about the opinions of others, and can admit when they are wrong.
 

psion

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The first season and parts of the second are good. They were released a few years ago and then the show was cancelled for a bit, and recently brought back. It was actually somewhat intelligent back then. The new seasons are horrid, they've taken the characters personalities and stretched them to an absurd level, I suppose the general public finds this more comedic or something.

I would agree that Sheldon can't be an INTP, I would say he is an INTJ, due to his love of abstract theories in his work, and the fact that he tends to plan everything out and is very bothered when things don't go according to plan, or when something is changed in his surroundings.
 

Jordan~

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Always thought it was a bit patronising.
 

smithcommajohn

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Amy Farrah Fowler has breathed some new life into the series, imo, but it does seem like the general quality has gone down. Still love the show! :)
 

Sensi Star

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The first season and parts of the second are good. They were released a few years ago and then the show was cancelled for a bit, and recently brought back. It was actually somewhat intelligent back then. The new seasons are horrid, they've taken the characters personalities and stretched them to an absurd level, I suppose the general public finds this more comedic or something.

Agreed. It's apparent that the new seasons have been 'dumbed down' for the general public.

I miss the subtlety of the earlier seasons, now the writers are just trying too hard
 

scorpiomover

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Agreed. It's apparent that the new seasons have been 'dumbed down' for the general public.

I miss the subtlety of the earlier seasons, now the writers are just trying too hard
I've noticed this trend for a LOT of shows I liked, going back to Herman's Head, Flying Blind, and much more. The early series were good. The later series were just awful. The scripts and plots were often diabolically so. Often, when it changed, the theme tune changed to a more catchy but cheesy tune, and the opening credits changed to a more snazzy and eye-catching, but still cheesy style. So you could see when it was going downhill.

Once this happened, it was normally the death knell for these types of shows. These types of shows only ever attracted a niche market, but one who was extremely loyal, and would never miss an episode. This gave them the appearance of a much larger audience, who only watched those shows casually, as normally happens. Network execs would then notice the ratings, and conclude they had a large part of the mainstream. They would then change it, to what they believe the mainstream likes, to capture a larger part of the mainstream audience. The result is almost always cheesy.

Once they changed to offer only cheesy mainstream, they lost their core audience. But what they were offering wasn't really interesting to a large sector of the mainstream public, and so the average ratings for those shows actually went down. But the network execs usually couldn't admit they had screwed up a good show. Instead, network execs would conclude that the show had had its day, and kill it off.

At least, that's my view on why a lot of my favourite shows were great for a few seasons, and then in a new season suddenly went cheesy, and then off the air, sometimes mid-season, while rather tame and predictable shows like Star Trek: TNG ran for 7 seasons.
 

Jordan~

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That's the good thing about a lot of British comedies: their brevity. They don't run for too long - Fawlty Towers, The Office, Extras, etc.
 

Sensi Star

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That's an interesting analysis.

One exception to this would be Seinfeld. It was quite boring in the first few seasons, started to get good at Seasons 4-5, and the seasons after that were equal if not better than 4-5.

I agree that the majority of shows plummet the way you described.
 

Minuend

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These are reasons I doubted INTP. He's too organized, too narcissistic, too judging of others, never considers the idea that he's wrong.

I recently saw a commercial where Sheldon was saying something like this to Penny: *something* is a game, angry bird is a game, WOW is a massive multiplayer onli... well, technically it's a game.

Obviously, there's no clear answer of his type; he is fictional. But with all those disorders of his, I don't see INTP unlikely.

Not that it matters tho
 

opheliaesque

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I don't really find Sheldon logical at all. Shouldn't his knowledge and ability to understand difficult concepts allow him to understand social behaviour? It is, after all, a system that is relatively easy to tap into. Thugh it may be tedious, droll and unengaging, he should know that ultimately, he needs/wants(?) social reciprocity. He seems INTP-J, but mostly a mishmash of personalities and contradictions which make him amusing, annoying and so freaking anal retentive.

That being said, I do enjoy the show, and find it quite amusing. Doesn't really hit close to home though, though like mentioned above, I envy the simplicity of their lives.
 

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My mother's birthday is tomorrow.

I bought her the entirety of the series up to this point.
 

Dimensional Transition

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I don't really find Sheldon logical at all. Shouldn't his knowledge and ability to understand difficult concepts allow him to understand social behaviour? It is, after all, a system that is relatively easy to tap into. Thugh it may be tedious, droll and unengaging, he should know that ultimately, he needs/wants(?) social reciprocity. He seems INTP-J, but mostly a mishmash of personalities and contradictions which make him amusing, annoying and so freaking anal retentive.

That being said, I do enjoy the show, and find it quite amusing. Doesn't really hit close to home though, though like mentioned above, I envy the simplicity of their lives.

Social behaviour is very complicated. You really have to 'feel' what you should do in certain situations, the social 'system' consists of lots of unwritten rules and exceptions. At least, that's how I feel about it, as a supposedly rational, analyzing INTP. I get some parts of social behaviour, but I often just stay polite everywhere because I have no clue what I should do most of the time. That said, I am a lot more social and empathic than Sheldon though... People often come to me with their problems and I like being with one or two close friends, unlike Sheldon, who'd just love to be the only one in the world, apparently. What I'd miss if I was the only person in the world was sharing my ideas with others and such... I don't think Sheldon feels that way.

I've written way too much about a freaking fictional television character. :I
 

scorpiomover

The little professor
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I don't really find Sheldon logical at all. Shouldn't his knowledge and ability to understand difficult concepts allow him to understand social behaviour? It is, after all, a system that is relatively easy to tap into.
True. But a lot of very smart people found social behaviour difficult to understand.

Social behaviour is based on an evolutionary model, which is constantly revolving, mostly based on the total state of the system in only the last few moments, as is driving. Thus, it would be appropriate to say that such models are space-dependent and time-independent, that they require knowledge of the surrounding objects in space, but don't require knowledge of prior time frames.

Western intellectualism is based on a scientific model, which assumes a system that applies fixed rules, where and each event can be studied largely independently of the system, but is based on a system of cause and effect, which refers to the passage of effects through time. This model assumes that the universe is space-independent but time-dependent. It is space-independent, in that we assume we are able to study an event, and learn about it, without having to study all the objects in the surrounding space. It is time-dependent, because it is dependent on how the effects travel through time.

Thus, we are discussing 2 entirely different approaches.

Sheldon's active life is involved in work which is space-independent and time-dependent. He is not used to dealing with work that is time-independent and space-dependent.

He has the ability. But to apply it, he has to learn to think in a wholly different way.

Sheldon COULD, in theory, learn to do so. But he gives up pretty quickly, like when he tried to learn to drive on the driving game, and gave up after 1 night.

Thugh it may be tedious, droll and unengaging, he should know that ultimately, he needs/wants(?) social reciprocity.
True. However, he mostly says that he has no need of friends, relationships, or almost all social contact, except when someone gets him to step outside his comfort zone, and then he has a meltdown, and someone has to call his mother to comfort him.

He needs social contact. He just thinks he doesn't.
 
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