Being Misunderstood

[Chris11]

Often, my comments illicit rage from others. This is generally because they have either misinterpreted my position or have not actually heard it. The unfortunate thing about being a thoughtful person is that many arguments actually require a substantial amount of time to express, and people are generally unwilling to allow someone more than 20 seconds to express their ideas in casual conversation. This is not a problem amongst other intellectuals such as those in my PhD program but has caused serious strife with members of my family and some of my friends. I was curious if this was a 'common thing' for the 'INTP.'

 

[Happy]

If people are raging at you when you talk (you even recognise that you’re a long-winded talker) then the problem is probably in the way you speak, and looking for validation from other INTPs is not going to help, but rather reinforce the negative trait you’ve developed.

Speak more concisely and you’ll probably have a more receptive audience.

 

[Pyropyro]

That's a bad academic trait actually, not something INTP-centric.

What field are you are in by the way?

 

[Ex-User (14663)]

Most people are automatons, wired to respond to certain words in particular ways. In order to have a normal social interaction with them you need to know what words are wired to which response, and then you just press the buttons basically. It's not too entertaining for you, obviously, because you know in advance the whole conversation almost verbatim, but I guess that's just one of the nuisances one has to deal with it in life. Becoming socially adept is in large part being able to predict these various responses.

But also remember that inducing rage in someone with your words is not necessarily a bad thing – it can be a great source of entertainment for you.

 

[Minute Squirrel]

Being misunderstood is usually caused by someone introverting themselves, that is if they're generally "normal"(aren't explicitly diseased in the mind or body).

That being said though, fuck people, really. Most people don't want to waste the effort on you. Even if you do learn to better communicate yourself, if you're anything like me then youll just feel disgust everytime you sacrifice verbal precision to appease that sick social instinct most of us have.

Basically you've got two options, cut out a piece of soul(true nature) and sacrifice it to the god of comfort and peace.

Or you could sacrifice comfort and peace, slay your protecting angels and offer them up to the lord of the flies and you'll truly be free

or not and you'll damned to perdition

 

[amarinthine]

Often, my comments illicit rage from others. This is generally because they have either misinterpreted my position or have not actually heard it. The unfortunate thing about being a thoughtful person is that many arguments actually require a substantial amount of time to express, and people are generally unwilling to allow someone more than 20 seconds to express their ideas in casual conversation. This is not a problem amongst other intellectuals such as those in my PhD program but has caused serious strife with members of my family and some of my friends. I was curious if this was a 'common thing' for the 'INTP.'

I would say that it is a common thing for the introvert. I recall "introverts" are defined by needing to "think before they speak." I learned this in an MBTI workshop, where they also highlighted the idea that extroverts tend to talk over each other and even expect this in conversations. In contrast, as an introvert I tend to wait for the other person to finish speaking before saying my part.
However, I've come to notice that "time," such as time to think while conversing, is treated differently depending on what region you live in. I'm from the US, for example, and the east-coast is faster-paced as compared to the midwest.
I tend to give a person three seconds after they stop speaking to add anything more. However, I knew an INTP where I've had to give him up to 10 seconds to fully think things through before speaking my turn.

 

[ruminator]

I'm surprised to read your post because I have been dealing with this on a daily basis. Feeling misunderstood is the worst. At least for me, it's like speaking a different language and having no one understand you. Powerless to express yourself.

Usually, I would try to explain myself and correct their misunderstanding. This takes a lot of time and back and forth, and I feel exhausted after it all. Especially having to do this constantly. Then, I realized, that it isn't my burden to make the other person understand. Communication is a two way street. Both parties should make an effort. If the listener is not making an effort in active listening, it is unfair for the speaker to feel responsible for that. Even if it creates a misunderstanding, or anger, that is on them, and not us. We don't have to go around correcting other people's mistakes. It's actually their loss.

 

[kora]

Seriously ? Like actual rage ? What are you expressing so poorly as to elicit rage XD ? Please give example, we need more to go on if you want to benefit from our awesome collective wisdom.

 

[Hadoblado]

Most people who are misunderstood are so because they lack communication skills. If it takes someone with a PhD to decipher what the hell you're saying the problem isn't everyone else, it's you.

Of all the people I know who felt misunderstood (every second person basically), pretty much all of them had the power to improve their communication but didn't, opting to blame everyone else instead.

Usually (and I'll note you haven't provided any examples) it's about missing the context. Good things to say can be bad things to say if the context is wrong, I expect you get this, but maybe not the scope? People's expectations are fluid, human sociality is complex. Speech is both limited and ambiguous and people rely on external assumptions to fill in the gaps. Not only this, but motivation is often subconscious, so while you may think you're talking about X for reason Y, it might be obvious to everyone else that this isn't the case (stuff like humblebragging, in/out-grouping, and virtue signalling come to mind). If you're bad at this stuff you're the last one to know.

At the very least you should consider propriety. While for the most part I can talk about anything to anyone, I'm not going to talk about eugenics or whatever with my mum because her world view isn't that flexible. If conversation is predictable like Serac says, you should be able to game it to avoid the outcomes you don't want. This might mean finding more like-minded people so compensate for the drop in social activity.

 

[Ex-User (14663)]

^Yes. Being misunderstood all the time is a result of not being good at communicating one's thoughts, and that, in turn, is a result of not being good at putting oneself in the counterparty's shoes. In short – lacking empathy.

 

[ruminator]

I disagree with this. Listening is a skill that many people choose not to exercise.

Most people who are misunderstood are so because they lack communication skills. If it takes someone with a PhD to decipher what the hell you're saying the problem isn't everyone else, it's you.

Of all the people I know who felt misunderstood (every second person basically), pretty much all of them had the power to improve their communication but didn't, opting to blame everyone else instead.

Usually (and I'll note you haven't provided any examples) it's about missing the context. Good things to say can be bad things to say if the context is wrong, I expect you get this, but maybe not the scope? People's expectations are fluid, human sociality is complex. Speech is both limited and ambiguous and people rely on external assumptions to fill in the gaps. Not only this, but motivation is often subconscious, so while you may think you're talking about X for reason Y, it might be obvious to everyone else that this isn't the case (stuff like humblebragging, in/out-grouping, and virtue signalling come to mind). If you're bad at this stuff you're the last one to know.

At the very least you should consider propriety. While for the most part I can talk about anything to anyone, I'm not going to talk about eugenics or whatever with my mum because her world view isn't that flexible. If conversation is predictable like Serac says, you should be able to game it to avoid the outcomes you don't want. This might mean finding more like-minded people so compensate for the drop in social activity.

^Yes. Being misunderstood all the time is a result of not being good at communicating one's thoughts, and that, in turn, is a result of not being good at putting oneself in the counterparty's shoes. In short – lacking empathy.

 

[Ex-User (14663)]

That may be so, but if one is consistently failing to communicate with people, first and foremost I would focus on myself. In fact even this happens in a minority of cases, I would work on my own communication skills. It's a strategy that cannot lose.

 

[ruminator]

i i/

That may be so, but if one is consistently failing to communicate with people, first and foremost I would focus on myself. In fact even this happens in a minority of cases, I would work on my own communication skills. It's a strategy that cannot lose.

This is true but the strategy can lose. No matter how much you explain something, the other person isn't going to understand unless they want to understand. People have filters that let them hear what they want to hear. It's like breaking your head against a brick wall sometimes.

 

[washti]

it's worth examining if the cause lays in interest/world-view incompatibility or low communication skills.
Can't exclude both happening simultaneously.
Ppl owe you nothing. Same for you.

 

[Hadoblado]

Fair Ruminator, a lot of people are bad at listening too. It could be a mismatch between interests etc..

I see it as this: Either the talker is bad at social stuff and should put some effort into getting better if they want people to listen, or the audience has issues, in which case the talker should expand their social circles to include people they can talk about their interests with (though this may require the former anyway), and stop making rage-inducing comments to people who don't want to hear them. You should have a sense of what people are prepared to talk about and adjust accordingly. Otherwise you're holding them hostage in a conversation they don't want.

I'm opposed to any conclusion that paints the talker as helpless to change their circumstance unless that actually is the case.

 

[Pyropyro]

People do listen but on their own terms, you just have to package your ideas on these terms or modify the environment to suite your speech.

 

[ruminator]

Not to hijack or anything, but this also relates to being misunderstood. I don't know why it affects me so much.

A lot of times I am engaged with someone who is either being manipulative, not smart and can't understand, or an irrational zealot who spouts rubbish. I try to reason with them. But often, when I try to explain something, they completely distort what I am saying and turn it into something else. They create a straw man argument to the extreme, twist my words, miss my point, mischaracterize my position, etc. This can either be because they genuinely don't get it, or because they are using rhetorical techniques to be evasive and "win."

But when this happens, when I am misunderstood or misrepresented, it really upsets me. I take it personally and feel attacked. I get this desperate feeling of frustration inside.

Imagine if you explain something to a friend, who mischaracterizes what you are saying and says "wow so you are saying you're superior to me" and walks away. You'll get the urge to run after them saying "wait no stop that's not what I meant." It's that feeling. The feeling that gives you that urge .. that's the one I get. Then imagine they take it a step further and make all these posts on social media accusing you of having a superiority complex and thinking other people are beneath you, and everyone else comments on these posts saying "wow what a bitch she really thinks she's better than everyone else." You know the feeling you get inside, the feeling of being misunderstood, the desperation to talk to everyone and explain yourself, saying "that's not what I meant!." That is the feeling I am talking about. I get that feeling, except x100.

I get that feeling so strongly that it makes me want to cry and even feel nauseous sometimes.

What is that feeling? What causes it?

Is it due to caring too much what others think of you? Is it due to self-blame (for not being articulate enough)? Is it due to ego? Is it due to the injustice of a false accusation? I want to know what is driving me to get that feeling so strongly so that I can learn how to overcome it. I don't think it is healthy to feel it so strongly.

I would get trampled on in real life if I am this sensitive to being misunderstood.

-- fyi, the example above is not real. I was just using it to illustrate the feeling I am referring to --

 

[Hadoblado]

Feeling misrepresented is nasty, and can happen a lot. People tend to care how they're perceived even if they don't want to admit to such a superficial weakness.

One way you can get around this is, if you know that someone does this a lot, instead of making an explicit statement of your belief, you can ask questions about theirs. This is a rhetorical technique that stops you being put on the defensive, but it can also be just good for understanding exactly where they're coming from.

You can even lead them to your position gently with the right questions given enough time.

I guess, when it comes to actually saying what you believe, you need to know why you're telling someone else your views. Are you trying to convince them? Are you just making conversation? Because if you think about why you're doing what you're doing, quite often you'll arrive at the conclusion that this person doesn't need to know about your divisive views. Or, at least, you don't need to volunteer those views.

 

[Black Rose]

I use my Fe to observe and probe people noninvasively to see the limits of what can be said. I deal with Anti Trump people by pointing out the neutral facts of what I think is going on rather than saying I believe. Some people are so emotionally without self-control I just shut the fuck up. Key point is Fe sees what acceptable and unacceptable by every person objectively. And Fe acts objectively where sharing its views. That's how I deal with miss understanding is to point out the neutral objectivity of the matter so the person must adjust themselves because I pointed out if they wish to talk to me they must realize the neutrality of my position and that I am not attempting to challenge the other person values but only to put them in the context of reality they do not see that must be understood regardless of offence or acceptance. I must get them to see the objectivity of what I am saying to the degree to which they can. I try to learn how to do this by Fe. Being ISFJ I am cautious and aware that I do not want to disturb people and I am aware of a person's state so as not to do that. Sometimes my moral code is broken I do tell people off because they are have distorted thinking on such and such matter. But according to the objective reality of the situation.

The one thing I cannot stand is that a person thinks ill of me for being a bad person when they only have a feeling as such and no objective basis for it. They have that face of resentment. But they are wrong and only have that feeling. My sister several times tried to control what I have the right to do. She said I could not talk to someone and got that person to think I was was a bad person and would not see me. She did this 3 more time where I did nothing wrong and I only wanted to do what I had the freedom to do by she was mad at me she was telling everyone I was a terrible person. I told her I would do something and it had nothing to do with her but her resentment mean she did not care it was my freedom to do so. She resented me and so did not care I had that freedom she just hated me so she wanted to stop anything I did by telling people I was a bad person. When she said she would get her boyfriend to shoot me in the head was when I went back to the mental hospital and back to the halfway house I was at 2 years. (2009)

Every time my brother wanted me to help him do a project he tried to stable me 4 times because each time I said it was too dangerous and we needed to do it differently he said we had to do it the dangerous way, so I ran away and he chased me with an Axe and knife. (2009)

My brother and sister being dicks and controlling just because I said they had no right to control me.

That is why I am cautious.
Controlling people are dicks.
They are emotional and domineering.
You have to be aware, a subtle danger may exist.

Shutting up is a good strategy when you know emotions have been pushed too far.

 

[Reluctantly]

Sad truth is that a lot of people aren't open to ideas or opinions that go against what they believe or think they know. Maybe that's pretty much the same as not listening, but it is what it is I guess.

It does suck when your mind is geared to think expansively and you're stuck around people that want things settled and with conclusive answers, because a lot of people you encounter have already set up their mind on a lot of things. (Does this relate to Big 5 openness maybe?) Or maybe that's general human nature too.

But it hurt my relationship with my mother growing up. She didn't care about science or engineering or technology or anything technical and seems to form her political opinions on very narrow ideas like tradition and gay marriage destroying something that is only meant for man and woman (in her eyes). So if you argue with her about it, she gets mad and doesn't want to talk...she did change when her husband's gay son married another guy, but I think she still harbors negative feelings about it. And it still bugs me to this day that she won't fix or understand simple things like how headlights in a car works). I think now she sees me as some kind of genius because I can fix almost anything in her house (including her cars) when "professionals" fail to. But she doesn't try either (she hates making mistakes to learn how to do something) and maybe that's the big personality conflict/difference between us.

BUT IT DOES SUCK! YES. This is a big let-down for me in my life, knowing that it's not worth trying to relate to most people.

 

[ruminator]

I guess, when it comes to actually saying what you believe, you need to know why you're telling someone else your views. Are you trying to convince them? Are you just making conversation? Because if you think about why you're doing what you're doing, quite often you'll arrive at the conclusion that this person doesn't need to know about your divisive views. Or, at least, you don't need to volunteer those views.

Idk I think this discourages open conversations. Yeah with most topics people don't need to learn others' views, but I think discussing things is a good thing and expands peoples' minds.

 

[Hadoblado]

Oh... Yeah I see I haven't done a good job conveying this.

I'm not saying don't have interesting conversations, or become conversationally flaccid, or anything like that. Discussion is good.

I'm more trying to emphasise the critical reflection aspect, and to use this to choose your battles. If you come away from conversations constantly frustrated because people aren't listening, then you're probably forcing a conversation that people aren't receptive to, possibly for reasons you don't fully understand (since you're still doing it).

Take what I say with a grain of salt. I'm a flagrant contrarian IRL - but this gives me a good idea of what people are open to in general when I'm interested in sharing my closely held views.

 

[Polaris]

I think it is easy to get sucked into chasing certain mentalities when it is so accessible on the internet. It can become obsessive because it triggers a feedback loop that is similar to instant gratification. You find this view that somehow grates on you or upsets you, and it becomes all-consuming because, to you, it doesn't make sense.

If we didn't have the internet we'd be quite oblivious to all this. The unique thing about the internet is that it allows us to read stranger's thoughts, and while I think there are very positive aspects to it, there are equally dangerous aspects to it - particularly if one is easily upset, angered or offended.

And while I think it is beneficial and sobering to realise that everyone thinks differently, there is a limit to how much a normal, emotional human being can take in and process. We cannot change the world, nobody can. People are feeling increasingly powerless because all the information we previously had no access to, is now in our homes and therefore instantly accessible. To top it off, we are bombarded and reminded through media outlets and addictions to social media.

But realistically, one can only have as much influence as one has through daily interactions with people in the close environment. A stranger is not going to be as relatable, and therefore more difficult to build rapport with. These things take a long time - building trust, that is.

What if we could read a thought bubble over every stranger's head? That would be quite overwhelming. We have increased connections through technological means - but the human brain's capacity for handling all this information is limited. It seems we are quite basic animals living in a world that has become more suitable for robots.

Or perhaps it is the opposite. We are highly advanced animals living in a world that has become overly simplified.

 

[Pizzabeak]

They say a lot of people are stupid and it's just an inability to comprehend things, especially new stuff, which could change their position on life or what they should do. No one can figure out if the chicken or egg came first, and "both" isn't a deep or surprising answer. As far as the problem goes those people are afraid of people smarter so they try to kill them.

As far as the original thing goes it doesn't have to be that, you just have to say it. Meaning, it might matter whether you don't talk enough or talk too much. They might never understand or have it drive them into even more madness and confusion thinking it's proving their point, no amount of anything could do anything because they're not intent on whatever it could be, they just want to harm and abuse on purpose because it's already over for them. If it's not that then they just need you to communicate the message different, and it's something you can't even see for yourself or you can, and they think you can't do it or don't want is a bad excuse so they have to see if you will, if you don't, they'll swoop in on the chance with the audiences to manipulate it and make it seem it was the worst thing until you break them show them something, hopefully for them it's suicide or a massacre which would be suicide by cop for your ROA of death. That's just one hypothesis though.

Some people can't see that an INTPs viewpoint is accurate. Se is fast. So Ni can be too. Ne isn't just supposed to be a creative function that jokes and is funny with a sense of humor. It's supposed to be paying attention all the time, making connections then comparing it to the past. I shouldn't have made it sound like they'd be stupid but some want to execute their agenda regardless of any new instruction they could get from other sources.

It's mainly the culture. In USA there's a heavy sports fascination with an emphasis on athleticism in the schools so it's Se/Ni. It could also be Si/Ne. They could see what you're doing then try to intervene. So there could be an unwillingness to believe if there's nothing to show for it, even if you're smart enough. It's not just that, you need the right motivation in life or you can't do anything right and be lazy or procrastinate which just means you're too busy for something else at that moment, it's not even that you have to accomplish anything in life to be proud to look back on or leave anything for your new generation of the family whether you have kids or not, just focus on you in the strictest of terms, you help others by helping yourself first.

Some people lie to themselves and say they like or need to talk even if they're introvert or extroverts but if you try to talk to them they won't or don't want then there's nothing left going on between those people. Don't just try to exchange info in any way possible. Some people just want to kill you and others may not, though they can team up to get resources.

It's not a game like when you were a kid anymore. I grew up in the 90's. If you eat magic mushrooms it's like a 90's rave dance party in your eyelids. Then the outside environment is all wavy and looks different like an In-N-Out burger t shirt with the surfboards in California on a beach or way there with the palm trees and sunset. Each moment can be as unique as there are grains of sand at any location, during any season, Christmas in July.

You can actually get so stoned there's no point in having everything look like a claymation video like Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer or Gumby with Pokey, stop motion animation, or some strange permeance vaguely cartoon or childlike breaking through a veil. It's a new concept, there's no other way to blow people's mind, people want what you can't give them and they want it now.

Humans are really big man apes a tad more sophisticated and they were designed to figure out more things using tools, so it's inevitable they will learn how to survive longer if given enough time. It shouldn't be a scary journey but we all die alone. We don't particularly ask to be born and thrust into here, you're given your destiny if you can do it. It takes hard work, but that's just how it is if you want your life to be worth it. That's how it is, I try not judge people in bad circumstances situations or in their shoes, the tone is different when you're a kid and they don't teach you it in school.

 

[ruminator]

Interesting responses, all. I was reading about this online and came across someone who linked this (massive anxiety over being misunderstood and unable to explain oneself) to not being "heard" while growing up, for example parents that never listened.