autodidact and self learning/practicing

[sushi]

my advice on self learning and practice / a skill or knowledge
based on my experience, spending 20- 40 minutes a day on a subject is enough to master it, but one has to be consistent and do it consistently


the minimum amount of time frame to grasp something is about 2-3 years, maxium around 6. this is akin to the 10000 hr rule

finally keep a progress journal at the end of the week, or end of 2 weeks, or month. the journal is for summarizing how much you effort you spent at learning the subject, also to vent your frustrations, and diifficulties you met whilelearning the subject.

its purpose is to reccord and keep track of my efforts /progress/lack of progress after every week or month has passed.

for example if you wasted a whole week or whole month doing something else and not on learning or practicing the subject, you will inevitably get frustrated after the week/month has passed, and reccording this on a journal will ease your frustrations and not squander the next week/month.

 

[Black Rose]

I put in at least 3 hours a day just to mental effort alone. Improving my thinking by thinking more. Of course, it is not directed specifically to any one form of thinking. But is highly personalized. I only think about things dealing with my interests. Too many subjects exist so I've become a semi generalist. Not specializing too much.

 

[Bertrand Russell's Barber]

If I want to learn something, I start from first principles.

Determine what particular phenomena/effect I want to understand and then build the causal chain that leads to expression of that phenomena/effect.

For example, I know nothing about pharmacology but say I want to learn about how the effects caused by some drug occur.

First I have to know if there are any enzymes in the digestive tract or elsewhere which can cleave the molecule before it is absorbed into the bloodstream or anything else that changes the chemical composition of the molecule before it is absorbed into the bloodstream.

Then let's treat the absorption of the molecule or submolecule and cleaving of the molecule by some enzyme, if any, as a black box and proceed from there.

Now it's absorbed into the bloodstream. Okay. How does it reach the particular area we are looking at? How much of the initial drug reaches the area?

Once it reaches that area, I can start to hone in on the particular effect that it's supposed to cause.

That effect is caused by the absence or increased presence of some other molecule. If there's anything else(?) I can go back to this point and revise what I want to look for.

So we have black boxes again.
1) How does the absence/increased presence of the molecules result in the phenomena we are observing?
2) How does the presence of the molecules or submolecules of the drug lead to the absence/increased presence of the other molecules which supposed lead to the above phenomenon being expressed.
And as we explore further, we zoom in further and further to the actual thing we are interested in and treat the rest as black boxes.

I see this as akin to an iterative process where you are trying to proof something. You have something on one side and you want to be able to get to that thing by means manipulation and transform of some other thing on the other side.

In summary, it's seems uncannily similar to an exercise in computing cohomology groups. -> That statement makes sense to me in my head but in order to have it comprehensible in the outside world I need to define and qualify a lot of things. i.e. I have to do just what I mentioned. I'm working on it. I just wanted to throw it out there. See homotopy type theory.

The process I mentioned above seems to work for pretty much everything. Anyone can think of any exceptions?

 

[sushi]

I am guessing i can learn 10 pages of information in a month, which i limit myself. photocopy 10 pages from a target book and read them repeatedly for a month.

the process is microlearning or microprogress, learn a little everyday and not overwhelm yorself too mcuh, and develop a habit. forcing oneself to learn alot in a small period of time is doomed to fail and is akin to cramming system in school.

you might start with very small or infintisimal progress, but eventually the rate of learning becomes a exponential function, rather than linear. the key is patience. there are also ups and downs.

 

[Bertrand Russell's Barber]

I am guessing i can learn 10 pages of information in a month, which i limit myself. photocopy 10 pages from a target book and read them repeatedly for a month.

I don't see why anyone would want to limit themselves to something like this. What in the world do you learn if you keep reading the same thing over and over again? There is no thinking being done, it seems more akin to rote memorization.

 

[Bertrand Russell's Barber]

But anyway, whatever works for you works for you eh.

 

[sushi]

its more a target of

how much can you learn per week,
how much can you learn per 2 weeks
how much can you learn per month
how much can you learn per 2 months


, and recording the progress you make on a journnal.

beyond 3 months is too long

but for me, yes there is an element of route learning because reading something repeatedly helps one understand it.

the trick is not too set too much to learn within a short amount of time and overload yourself in the beginning, because like i said before its an exponential curve,.

 

[Bertrand Russell's Barber]

I try not to measure what I learn in that way.

How I do it is simply to address whatevers questions pop up in my head and if I come to some point where I can't proceed because the details are either fuzzy or nonexistent, I know it's time to go look it up somewhere.


With every seemingly new thing that you have, there is an extent to which you can derive its understanding from things you already know. But you will hit an edge and you know that's a sign for you to assimilate some more stuff.

Usually it means that you are missing some fundamental operation of manipulation to get from one thing to another.


These are key ideas, sort of akin to transformations or a non-trivial mapping that allows you to approach that thing in a new way.

Usually what that implies is that the substrate upon which you are performing the logical deduction is transformed.


And if you want to learn something that does not arise from natural questions then it's probably because you feel it necessary to know whatever that thing is for societal reasons. Maybe all your friends know it or maybe your teacher wants you to learn it or maybe it will help get you a job.

For me those reasons usually don't lead to the individually being able to successfully learn anything at all but to become a mere parroteer of that body of knowledge.

I understand why many would proceed anyway because the societal benefit for having done so is too great. It's a matter of priorities, really.

But given how on edge the world is right now, critical infrastructures which provide you with things you are used to taking for granted may fail without warning, very suddenly and then basically we have to fend for ourselves and I think being able to learn fast and react under those circumstances is very important.

A lot of human beings alive today, especially in developed parts of the world forget that most of the reason we are alive and unencumbered in our activities is because of the collective efforts of individuals and groups who work tirelessly to keep critical infrastructure and supply chains working at all times. But these systems are so fragile. Have a few issues come up at the same time and the whole thing topples over.

How many of us have any knowledge of how to hunt wild game or fish or grow vegetables and that sort of thing? So many of us live so far removed from the "ground zero" where all these basic necessities are procured or produced.

Modern supply chains. Big achievement of mankind.

 

[sushi]

I am not revealing what am trying to learn yet, but i will eventually, Betrand russell's bartender.

try to sleep at night with the book/material you plan to study below your pillow, it really helps.

 

[sushi]

it probably takes 4 to 6 years for basic mastery of a skill or knowledge.

3 years is too short but the least minimum invested.

that is also the same amount of time to be competent at a job or getting to know your partner thoroughly in a marriage before things go to shit or not.

progress is like a small stairway rather than big leaps, even though the overall learning curve is exponential.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Have fun learning.
Revisit old information for better memory.
Keep track of what you learn and try to add new information over time.
Always update your knowledge, that it fits newer problems.
Double check your work and make sure that what you learn is done right.
Sometimes its worth doing real life experiments.

 

[BurnedOut]

On the contrary, I will advice to explicitly not genuinely acknowledge your progress until you have reached quite far.

In such cases, in my experience, the need for excellence should be derived from feeling of low self-esteem at not achieving a certain standard. When you set no standard and simply want to keep getting better, always perform your comparisons upwards and never downwards. Also, be patient with the battering yourself. You will feel down, despaired and feel like giving up. Then look behind and acknowledge how far you have come but also realize that you are still not at the top.

 

[Black Rose]

I have at least 250 blog posts on my blog. 50 months' worth of content. 5 posts on average per month.

I do not know how that translates but its a lot of paragraphs images and video.

I hope to put it into an A.I. construct someday. It will give it a certain personality/knowledge base. Writing my blog is like programming the a.i.

It will be highly complex.

 

[sushi]

knowing+ thinking--> learning+ assimilating--> understanding

or
knowing+ thinking--> learning+ understanding--> assimilating?

purpose of learning is assimilating information in order to understand it

while reading textbook, i am stuck in some areas i dont understand, i try to copy it down or put on a question and move on but it still lingers on my mind

 

[sushi]

what is the relationship between knowing, thinking, learning , sensing?

how to focus and learn effectively

 

[Words]

I put it in literally --------- 2 minutes per day. And surprisingly, it works for me. It works because I prioritize consistency over quality. Because it's just 2 minutes, there's no way I can't be consistent with it. 2 minutes a day over a series of activities, that is. Including this. My 2 minutes here is done.

 

[sushi]

I put it in literally --------- 2 minutes per day. And surprisingly, it works for me. It works because I prioritize consistency over quality. Because it's just 2 minutes, there's no way I can't be consistent with it. 2 minutes a day over a series of activities, that is. Including this. My 2 minutes here is done.

2 minutes is kind of short, but whatever works. min for me is 15 minutes


what is the difference between knowing +thinking and learning + thinking

 

[Niclmaki]

I think you gotta better define what you mean by “grasp something”. Not to mention it can vary wildly between persons and what the THING is.

I can ‘grasp’ most concepts in an afternoon as long as I’m engaged in doing something related to it and not simply having things dictated to me. If it is just having things dictated to me, I will probably have to revisit my notes or the lecture 3-4 times before it is grasped.

Becoming an expert at something is where I hear that ‘ten-thousand hours’ rule thrown around. But, I think this is misleading. I wouldn’t be surprised if it only takes 1% of that time to become familiar, and then 10% of that to become knowledgeable / good. At least in my case that’s what I’ve noticed. I’ll admit, I’m a fairly quick learner, but nothing too exceptional.

I’m also quite biased against sticking to (lingering) on one subject after I’ve familiarized myself with it. I bounce from subject to subject, interest to interest on a whim. I may circle a common “big picture” interest for a few years though. Eg. The uselessly vague catagory of just the word “psychology”.

 

[sushi]

I think you gotta better define what you mean by “grasp something”. Not to mention it can vary wildly between persons and what the THING is.

I can ‘grasp’ most concepts in an afternoon as long as I’m engaged in doing something related to it and not simply having things dictated to me. If it is just having things dictated to me, I will probably have to revisit my notes or the lecture 3-4 times before it is grasped.

Becoming an expert at something is where I hear that ‘ten-thousand hours’ rule thrown around. But, I think this is misleading. I wouldn’t be surprised if it only takes 1% of that time to become familiar, and then 10% of that to become knowledgeable / good. At least in my case that’s what I’ve noticed. I’ll admit, I’m a fairly quick learner, but nothing too exceptional.

I’m also quite biased against sticking to (lingering) on one subject after I’ve familiarized myself with it. I bounce from subject to subject, interest to interest on a whim. I may circle a common “big picture” interest for a few years though. Eg. The uselessly vague catagory of just the word “psychology”.

i just to have the tendency bounce from thing to thing also, like urge to skip to a different subject after 1 or 2 years. But i do not think it is useful, it is not a good trait. knowledge and competence sinks for me at least 3 to 4 years.

come to think of it, Words' advice really makes sense, dont overdo and exhaust yourself in one day but consistently put effort everyday long term like a marathon.

also self-thinking is a better word than thinking, as it is more accurate. the brain is learning when it is thinking stuff.

 

[sushi]

what is the similarities and differences between learning and programming

isnt learning, kind of programming your brain/ mind

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

I keep a daily journal and keep track of time spent working/studying/etc. I make sure to utilize at least 60% of my free time. Free time is 24 hours - 7.5 hours of sleep so I'm aiming to work and study 10 hours each day. If I get days under 60% I make it up on the next day. If my time is limited I reduce my sleep to get the 60% and then I sleep more when there's more free time.
I spend an hour developing new skills or more.

 

[sushi]

^it is better to do a little everyday and make it a habit rather than force yourself to do alot a day and exhaust yourself.

 

[sushi]

i might sound extremely INTj when i say this
learning is about conquering is as much as conquering about learning.

for to master a field of knowledge is in some way learn and conquer it.

3 or less years is noob or beginner
4 to 5 years for minimum competence

6 to 8 years to standard and average competence

10-12 years to above standard competence

16-18 years for expert comptence

 

[sushi]

the best way to practice what you learn is to write a book about it

divide the things you have learned into chapter, and organize it into accrodingly into book

that way you wont get confused about what you learn and havent learned

 

[sushi]

the first stage is baby learning= that is akin to a toddler/baby learning something
the second stage is beginner
the third is intermediate
the foruth is internmediate to slow mastery
the final is mastery to expert

i think to reach from second to third fourth requires at least 3 to 5 years at most

escape toddler or baby learning level probably requires 2-3 years.. Most people get frustrated and rage quit.

 

[sushi]

What is the difference between self teaching and self learning?

Arent they the same and have same meaning.

 

[sushi]

What is learning, how to define it??
I am trying to define human learning through input output model

learning vs input
learning vs output

input process involve teaching, absorbing breaking down , form connection
otuput process involve "memory, using and application , rebuilding" making sense

 

[Rune]

Quick question..
Is it normal for INTPs to be autodidacts?
Id imagine it is because Ti..


I like to get to the root concept of a topic, digest it effectively, then bleed it into my brain machine and see how it connects to other things and subjects..
and then I just make myself a neural network and drive myself slowly insane from all the hobbies I have and few achievements I output.

 

[sushi]

most people make the mistake of remembering and jumping into depth or cram study immediately when they study a topic

its better to have a warm up or trial period to prepare yourself to get into depth, like 1 and a half to 2 years. Hard subjects could probably take 3 years. Then you feel less intimidated when you study it in depth.

I think it is the same for languages as it is for other things.

its also a strategy to build a hierarchy rank list of easy to difficult topics , the easiest at the bottom and the hardest at the top
and study the simple first, and tackle to the hardest at the last when you feel confident enough

 

[birdsnestfern]

I like an overall gist of the topic first so that I can read the headers of each chapter or the table of contents to know what they want to tell me. Then I speed read, run index finger down the middle of a page and catch a couple of words from each line and flip the pages fast to the end. You will have picked up a lot more than you realize like that. Then do it again and read more carefully and highlight the most important parts. Take even more time with super complex items to absorb. If I know what they plan to tell me, it helps provide a framework for all the details. Framework first for me. I can absorb a LOT of detail very fast, so can you. You just don't realize how fast, so thats why run over at least once speed reading, then read the whole chapter and take a walk or a nap between each one and have snacks nearby and drive to the school library to study if you are distracted. Then after a month or a year, revisit it again to refresh. 12 college units means studying three heavy topics in one quarter, if that is three chapters a week in each book, thats a lot to absorb. Take mini naps and it sinks in better. Sometimes books have summaries at the end of each chapter. Those are super helpful, just go to the last page of each chapter and read the summary first then fit the harder details into that summary as you read more carefully. With algebra its just rote memory and getting the many formulas on 3 x 5 cards and taping them to the car dash board to study at lights. I did that with predicates and pronouns too, 3 x 5 cards taped all over the place before a test.

Trust that you will absorb a LOT speed reading~ you really will. This is right up an INTP's alley anyway with last minute cramming.
I just did his tip a moment ago and got 82 lines of ten words x 2 minutes the first time (410 wpm), and 96 lines of ten words x 2 minutes the second time (480 wpm).

 

[dr froyd]

you need clear feedback mechanisms to learn things. Without that you can spend 10,000 hours, or 100,000 hours, and you will not get anywhere beyond amateur-level

that's certainly easier nowadays - you can ask questions online and get a feel for how to think about things. However, i think interaction with skilled people is a must one way or another.

 

[sushi]

(1) read learn

(2) copy understand

93) know use application

thost are three steps of learning something,

as for feedback i havent really investigated it yet.

 

[ZenRaiden]

as for feedback i havent really investigated it yet.

There are several categories of feedback that exist.
Immediate feedback or delayed feedback.
Feedback from inanimate environment ergo physical environment, and from other people.
Autodidactic route is mostly based around finding feedbacks from environments, but autodidactic route also means you have to be enough self critical to find your own blind spots, or find good ways to eliminate blind spots that would have been addressed by someone else.

I think the benefit of autodidactic route are in the fact you can find your own method and rhythm to your own cognition. Many of modern schools are forced to give immediate or short but not much delayed feedback. However the schematic feedback we have in school system is one size fits all as with everything.
What @dr froyd says is actually true when it comes to someone imparting knowledge provided they have the expertise and didactic skill they can move you along way faster than learning alone.
However faster learning comes at cost of processing time and immersion depth.

Ergo self learned things sometimes can stick in mind easier and for longer than things thrown your way.
The down side of self learning is if you start wrong you can habituate knowledge and cognitive habits that are actually counter productive.

 

[sushi]

definition of wrong to me is just a form of going off tangent

off tangent often correct themselves, as understanding grows

 

[ZenRaiden]

definition of wrong to me is just a form of going off tangent

I am INTP that is my achilles heel. Going on tangents and being the scientific tourist is where genius is born. So you are kind of right, that sometimes this is actually good for us. Being too smart is sometimes the error.
Many pioneers in science were kind of odd balls that spent days wondering about shit that most normal people would consider tangents and waste of time.
For instance the guy studying chaos theory was constantly daydreaming about cloud formations and asking how he could predict the shape of clouds.

So in so far as you go, you are kind of doing it right.
The problem I pointed out before is your time is money and spending time with this stuff is expensive.
That is why many scientists that made a difference in history were kind of mofos that had other jobs than science where they spent most of they working day doing work that was way below their competency. Einstein being one of those.
Essentially you just sit around and think.
That is why priests and monks were so smart. Their job was scribling stuff down on skin with ink. Da Vininci spent most of his days really just wasting time and taking commissions for art of church and nobles.

Basically you have to be a child to be a genius and play all the time.