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Asperger's, anyone? (Not me)

MrDane

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My girlfriend (INFJ) has almost finished her psychology degree, and she insists I have trait's characteristic of people with Asperger's syndrome. I don't think so myself, though I'm high on introversion and sometimes anxious around people, but fully capable of reading and empathizing. She argues that some of the INTP traits are inherently autistic...

So for the sake of (her) argument: Does anyone of you have Asperger's syndrome? Where would you place yourselves on the autism scale?
 

own8ge

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What is autism but a measurement of compatibility based on a set of objective implications? Wouldn't it be mindless to be concerned with the judgment? Whatever wouldn't cause a problem, is ignorant to define. Does your plan relay on the identification of nonsensical conditions which yet haven't limited you in any way?
 

pjoa09

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Wasn't Asperger's removed from the that DSM IV or something?

That being said I think I am a little autistic. I obsess over specific interests, I don't talk much, I am awkward around people, apathetic often, had a stuttering issue, always wear the same clothes, and have social anxiety (a little).
 

Brontosaurie

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i know someone (probably INTP) who argues that asperger is an arcane neanderthal master race while autism is a defective hybrid between aspergers and neurotypicals. ha ha.
 

MrDane

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What is autism but a measurement of compatibility based on a set of objective implications? Go your own way.

Asperger's syndrome is a "diagnosis", and as such it belongs to an arbitrary category constructed by psychiatrists, psychologists and physicians in general to make their jobs easier. Yes, we all agree. ;)

And now, back to my question:

Has anyone been given the particular diagnosis I mentioned? Yesses and nos will suffice.
 

own8ge

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That being said I think I am a little autistic. I obsess over specific interests, I don't talk much, I am awkward around people, apathetic often, had a stuttering issue, always wear the same clothes, and have social anxiety (a little).

Personality characteristics equal disorder?
Disorder: An ailment that affects the function of mind or body.
 

MrDane

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Wasn't Asperger's removed from the that DSM IV or something?

O really?

That being said I think I am a little autistic. I obsess over specific interests, I don't talk much, I am awkward around people, apathetic often, had a stuttering issue, always wear the same clothes, and have social anxiety (a little).

Thank you, that's helpful.
 

QuickTwist

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i know someone (probably INTP) who argues that asperger is an arcane neanderthal master race while autism is a result of faulty interbreeding between aspergers and neurotypicals. ha ha.

I disagree with the whole neanderthal argument. Aspergers is on the rise, its up about 600%.

My uncle-in-law has aspergers and he is a genius. He works for 3M and is the only one who can do the job he does.
 

own8ge

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I personally believe that it would only be suffice for people to be diagnosed as Autistic if they have cognitive disability. 9/10 that I've met whom have been diagnosed with Autism, cognitively work perfectly fine. I actually helped them into stop believing themselves to have Autism. Their lives improve beyond measure.
 

Brontosaurie

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I disagree with the whole neanderthal argument. Aspergers is on the rise, its up about 600%.

My uncle-in-law has aspergers and he is a genius. He works for 3M and is the only one who can do the job he does.

i don't believe in it either but it's pretty fun.

the rise is most likely due to an increased awareness about the condition and perhaps a slackening of the criteria. no?
 

own8ge

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Implying that you are laughing at me...
Asking a question is directive. Consciously or subconsciously, there must be a purpose ergo plan.
 

Brontosaurie

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Implying that you are laughing at me...
Asking a question is directive. Consciously or subconsciously, there must be a purpose ergo plan.

sorry, i thought it funny of you expecting INTP's to have a set plan in life. we're probably the type least likely to ever grow up in that sense.
 

Paladin-X

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I am an ISTP. I am diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome.

Also, lack of empathy is not synonymous with autism, despite what the psychiatric community might think. Autism is a developmental disorder, not a social or empathy disorder. Those are just potential symptoms.

In the new DSM diagnosis, Sensory Processing Disorder will be added as a symptom. According to my psychologist, just about every autistic client she's treated, has had SPD.

Autism/Asperger's is not related to type. In my support group alone, we have introverts and extraverts, intuitive and sensors, feelers and thinkers.
 

Alice?

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By the sound of the thread title, I assumed you were offering me Aspergers. I was intrigued.
Aspergers is highly overdiagnosed, at least here in the US. I don't condone self/amateur diagnosing.
 

nanook

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it seems that autism spectrum is in fashion and diagnosticians forget about equally superficial and meaningless alternatives like schizoid PD, mixed PD schizoid paranoid, schizotypal PD, avoidant dependent PD, compulsive PD, social anxiety, whatever ....

i have officially been denied the asperger label in a german humanist + integral psychosomatic clinic at age 34 (in favor of a more awesome diagnosis which reads literally "you don't match any of the criteria of the recognized disorders, but we still feel, that there is something wrong with you" - yes there is a number code for that in ICD/DSM), but i have no doubt that if i had been exposed to contemporary american psychiatrists at age 19 or any earlier age in my life, i would have been diagnosed as on the spectrum.

there are some self identified (also officially diagnosed) aspies on youtube that make me feel like i finally found someone who belongs to my own species ♥♥♥♥ (the ann mish, undeadpoe, taylor J, dead rodent girl, ....)

i would argue that they are nothing but a healthy combination of the INXX type and the individual story of handling the challenges that this type implies in their family and society.

"healthy handling" doesn't mean "perfect" or "functional in a sick society", it means that type/kognition isn't largely rejected, but largely integrated into the personality.

and this way of handling one self can in deed be interpreted as personality "disorder", when it doesn't work well for self-expression in society, when it's self-sabotaging, self-loathing, self-denying.

however the concept of autistic PD totally fails to illustrate this issue and it does just the opposite, it pathologies the type/temperament, which makes it nothing less but type-targeting fascism and while autistic people should learn to be proud about their type/temperament, they must necessarily fail to differentiate their temperament from how they are interpreting and handling it as personalities, because this differentiation happens only later in life, and i fear that "autistic pride" is usually a misguided proud about the "disorder" (misinterpretation of temperament), which is sucking the cock of the fascist system in a stockholm-syndrom-manner "it's good that they recognize me as inherently broken creature, this way they will at least give up on making me into one of them and i can be one of my own kind, fuck yeah". this feels good but it really means: "fuck me, now i won't discover who i truly am for as long as i believe in their concept of me " - huge waste of time. (edited)


but there are truly autistic individuals, i mean people who are entirely stuck in cognitive development, in a way that isn't solely explained by how any type will naturally come with a specific profile of higher and lower lines of intelligence ... and i would rather not be considered to be one of them. and i am not, which is why i haven't received the diagnosis.

but there is the difference between a stuck development (a true disorder, wherein personality goes into denial/shock about the challenges of type/cognition) and a naturally slow development (of auxiliary, tertiary or inferior lines of intelligence) - you can't tell for sure, whether someone is actually stuck (has a disorder) or whether he is simply naturally slow until he is well into adolescence, but they diagnose young people with autism/aspersers and that's most often a misjudgment.

true developmental disorders are not related to type, but they are categorized differently depending on type, for instance classic narcissism means nothing but child in a grown up body, who only superficially pretends to be grown up, but doesn't have the perspective taking skills of grown ups. there are minor differences in how development goes wrong, when it goes wrong, and those depend on type. so even when diagnosis don't reflect type directly, but reflect actual subtleties in developement, there is still statistical alignment between type and diagnosis - then there is a lot of inconsistency in how diagnosis are applied.
 

BloodCountess88

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I was diagnosed as a schizoid, and now I'm having tests done because both my children (twins) were diagnosed with ASD (yes, aspergers is just Autism now). My children are 3 years old, seen multiple neurologists and after routine parent screening they suspect I might have high functioning autism (apsergers to be precise) and that I might have been misdiagnosed as a schizoid.

My children have a severe language delay. They both have SPD, and do intensive therapy (OT/Speech/ABA).


it seems that autism spectrum is in fashion and diagnosticians forget about equally superficial and meaningless alternatives like schizoid PD, mixed PD schizoid paranoid, schizotypal PD, avoidant dependent PD, compulsive PD, social anxiety, whatever ....

i have officially been denied the asperger label in a german humanist + integral psychosomatic clinic at age 34 (in favor of a more awesome diagnosis which reads literally "you don't match any of the criteria of the recognized disorders, but we still feel, that there is something wrong with you" - yes there is a number code for that in ICD/DSM), but i have no doubt that if i had been exposed to contemporary american psychiatrists at age 19 or any earlier age in my life, i would have been diagnosed as on the spectrum.

there are some self identified (also officially diagnosed) aspies on youtube that make me feel like i finally found someone who belongs to my own species ♥♥♥♥ (the ann mish, undeadpoe, taylor J, dead rodent girl, ....)

i would argue that they are nothing but a healthy combination of the INXX type and the individual story of handling the challenges that this type implies in their family and society.

"healthy handling" doesn't mean "perfect" or "functional in a sick society", it means that type/kognition isn't largely rejected, but largely integrated into the personality.

and this way of handling one self can in deed be interpreted as personality "disorder", when it doesn't work well for self-expression in society, when it's self-sabotaging.

however the concept of autistic PD totally fails to illustrate this issue and it does just the opposite, it pathologies the type/temperament, which makes it nothing less but type-targeting fascism and while autistic people should learn to be proud about their type/temperament, they must necessarily fail to differentiate their temperament from how they are interpreting and handling it as personalities, because this differentiation happens only later in life, and i fear that "autistic pride" is usually a misguided proud about the "disorder" (misinterpretation of temperament), which is sucking the cock of the fascist system in a stockholm-syndrom-manner "it's good that they recognize me as inherently broken creature, this way they will at least give up on making me into one of them and i can be one of my own kind, fuck yeah".


but there are truly autistic individuals, i mean people who are entirely stuck in cognitive development, in a way that isn't solely explained by how any type will naturally come with a specific profile of higher and lower lines of intelligence ... and i would rather not be considered to be one of them. and i am not, which is why i haven't received the diagnosis.

but there is the difference between a stuck development (a true disorder, wherein personality goes into denial/shock about the challenges of type/cognition) and a naturally slow development (of auxiliary, tertiary or inferior lines of intelligence) - you can't tell for sure, whether someone is actually stuck (has a disorder) or whether he is simply naturally slow until he is well into adolescence, but they diagnose young people with autism/aspersers and that's most often a misjudgment.

true developmental disorders are not related to type, but they are categorized differently depending on type, for instance classic narcissism means nothing but child in a grown up body, who only superficially pretends to be grown up, but doesn't have the perspective taking skills of grown ups. there are minor differences in how development goes wrong, when it goes wrong, and those depend on type. so even when diagnosis don't reflect type directly, but reflect actual subtleties in developement, there is still statistical alignment between type and diagnosis - then there is a lot of inconsistency in how diagnosis are applied.

I agree with much of what you wrote. However, I knew all along my children were very different. Not that there is something "wrong" per se, but when every single parenting tool (like time out) fails without any plausible explanation, and you see your child attempting to communicate yet being unable to do so, it's pretty evident that there are neurological differences. I had children who didn't want to be touch, who puked 3 times a day for unknown reasons and test after tests nothing showed up. Because my children were "high functioning" and have no physical delays it wasn't until I saw a very distinct pattern in behavior (excessive bathing and cleaning, color coding and lining up of objects, spinning, walking on toes) that I looked into Autism. Yes, they might grow up to seem normal and might just be developmental delay for now, but I am sure their brain works completely different than neurotypical people when it comes to problem solving. Just the fact that they have a hard time potty training but my 3 year old can multiply shows neuro-diversity.

However, society's approach to such individuals like they are "broken" and non functional has more to do with the label's stigma and not the label itself. For individuals in the spectrum, to know that they think differently and they have needs is of great value when it comes to creating coping mechanisms. Sadly we live in a society that values the "typical" and sees anything other as damaged or broken. As introverts, we have experience such stigma for not being interested in certain "typical" behaviors and functions in our society, getting the label of "odd" and "weird" when in reality we aren't.
 

MrDane

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By the sound of the thread title, I assumed ou were offering me Aspergers. I was intrigued.

Haha, yes, I can see why one might infer that.
Oops, I guess.

Aspergers is highly overdiagnosed, at least here in the US. I don't condone self/amateur diagnosing.

Well, I don't live in the US, I live in Scandinavia... but the concept of diagnoses and the ways they're dealt with are problematic here as well. But that wasn't my concern with this thread, really. ;)
 

MrDane

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However, society's approach to such individuals like they are "broken" and non functional has more to do with the label's stigma and not the label itself. For individuals in the spectrum, to know that they think differently and they have needs is of great value when it comes to creating coping mechanisms. Sadly we live in a society that values the "typical" and sees anything other as damaged or broken. As introverts, we have experience such stigma for not being interested in certain "typical" behaviors and functions in our society, getting the label of "odd" and "weird" when in reality we aren't.

I'm a bit ignorant of what it means to be stigmatized because of a diagnosis. I mean, I have yet to try it. I do recognize, though, what it means to be "introvert" in the kind of society that requires everyone to be extrovert, but that's hardly thought of as a "disorder".

I imagined that getting a diagnosis would be helpful and even a relief because it kind of legitimizes one's behaviour and not living up to certain expectations, but sure, it may also label one as "broken" with is unbalanced if there are certain advantages to the condition as well.

On the other hand, isn't that why people get a diagnosis in the first place? Because they're already experiencing being broken? They go to the doctor because they're not functioning--and "not functioning" does justify getting a diagnosis of some kind...okay, that's probably not true all the time. I haven't made up my mind about this.
 

MrDane

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What is autism but a measurement of compatibility based on a set of objective implications? Wouldn't it be mindless to be concerned with the judgment? Whatever wouldn't cause a problem, is ignorant to define. Does your plan relay on the identification of nonsensical conditions which yet haven't limited you in any way?

No plans, really, I'm just a curious fellow.

You gotta excuse that, it's in my personality. Perhaps you can relate. :)
 

BloodCountess88

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On the other hand, isn't that why people get a diagnosis in the first place? Because they're already experiencing being broken? They go to the doctor because they're not functioning--and "not functioning" does justify getting a diagnosis of some kind...okay, that's probably not true all the time. I haven't made up my mind about this.

Not necessarily. I sleeked out a diagnosis for my children because they didn't speak and the autism was impeding their ability to learn. I didn't think they were broken or "there was something wrong". I checked their hearing, checked oral function to make sure there was no mechanical problem that was causing the lack of speech. Often children on the spectrum are thought of being really precocious, I thought my 18 month old drawing like a 4 year old (fish with eyes, faces with eyebrows, hands with fingernails very detailed and clear) was just her absorbing her environment ( I draw with heir daily) and being quite precocious.


The diagnosis came into play when I saw her actively seek out social situations and being unable to speak and socialize independently of prompting. There was something different, something I was doing wrong, she didn't understand the way I communicated. My son was the one with the excessive bathing (he bathed 4-5 times a day, he's more verbal) and the severe SPD and OT needs. I seeked out a diagnosis for him because he dragged his head on the floor, lined things up and "stimmed" and I didn't understand why. After everything I tried, he kept puking 3 times a day (later on I realized it was the sensations and textures, because of the SPD). There was something I wasn't understanding about my children, after seeing the first neurologists it all became clear.

The diagnosis allowed me to seek out the needed therapy to allow my children to gain the coping mechanisms needed to learn and function. It gave me the parenting tools and manner to communicate in a way that they understood. Which is very different than neurotypical children.

But with all those great tools, came stigma. People telling me their cognitive skills were very low, that they would never talk, that they were violent and dangerous and that were very low functioning/low IQ because they couldn't speak. Because of their lack of compliance they were made to be mentally ill, mentally impaired.


Now, shifting from my children to me, I do not think a diagnosis will help me or give clarification for anything. I'm functional. Society can label me as odd in a negative way, but I am not. I do have certain behavioral patterns, but nothing that I want to break or get therapy and help for.

The reason why Aspergers is merged into the ASD diagnosis (along with PDD-Nos) is because there are certain radical behaviors that later on impede you from living a functional life, behaviors that can be targeted with therapy. But because you are "high functioning" they get denied the therapy needed. Plenty of Aspies have OT needs (don't like being touched), have behaviors that can harm them and have speech issues that are not being addressed because they "look" normal. And because they look normal, society doesn't see them as broken.

Having issues with coping mechanisms does not equal being broken. Neuro-diversity does not mean you are broken. It means, you are diverse.

All those specialists who told me all the things me kids couldn't do? Done. All those IQ tests are set up for children who can't cope in social situations to fail. A child who is non verbal, given a verbal test, will do poorly. But again, that's what society expects you to do and be like, and if you can't you are broken or ill.


My question too is, do you have behaviors that need to be address for safety issues, or issues coping with your surrounding that are inhibiting your ability to gain basic skills and comprehension? If your answer is yes, a diagnosis will help you. if the answer is "No, but I think I am weird and I don't fit it and my GF thinks I am weird" most likely you are being stigmatized by a society who cannot accept anything other than "typical".
 

Hadoblado

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Every psychology student and their dog's mother wants to diagnose their friends (I am one, and I do this shit all the time). They are often subject to a very strong availability bias, where the most introverted person they know must be autistic or schizophrenic, the most Perceiving people they know have ADHD, the most Judging people have OCD, and the most extroverted people must be histrionic.

I talk in reference to type to illustrate the point that this could just be their personality. My Mother thought I had Aspergers because I liked thinking, and acted out in forced social situations. While this is something that is similar to an Aspergian, there are many ways in which we differ that my mother couldn't see for her massive tunnel vision, despite her working in the healthcare industry specifically with autism spectrum individuals.

I think it's a good idea to ask your girlfriend what the importance of this diagnosis is. Will it change anything? Do you feel as if you need special help in the relevant areas? Diagnosis of autism as a condition is used to make categorical exception to a different skill set and outlook, but if you feel that you don't need this exception, why is an issue?
 

pjoa09

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Personality characteristics equal disorder?
Disorder: An ailment that affects the function of mind or body.

An ailment is an exaggerated form of a personality characteristic. If you don't like to talk to people the exaggerated would be you are a mute.

So its quite spectral.

Maybe it is really a neanderthal thing.
 

ℜεмїηїs¢εη¢ε

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"you don't match any of the criteria of the recognized disorders, but we still feel, that there is something wrong with you"


Lol, that's pretty awesome. Oh yea I was supposed to answer the thread... I've never taken any such test so I wouldn't know but I'm pretty sure there's nothing wrong with me. I can be cold sometimes but I see that as a consequence of frequent self analysis of my thoughts/emotions.
 

Vrecknidj

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My wife, INFP, is an aspie.

My own score, here (http://rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php) placed me as:

Your Aspie score: 97 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 121 of 200
You seem to have both Aspie and neurotypical traits

Her Aspie score was something like 150 or so and her neurotypical score was maybe 80.

While I agree with the others that there's nothing inherent in the types or in autism that indicates that there's any causal relation, there's probably some minor non-causative correlations.

Dave
 

defghi

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Based on that quiz (135 aspie 81 neurotypical, and I was trying to be as neurotypical as possible while still being honest) I could probably get diagnosed with Asperger's; my question is, would I get anything beneficial out of that? Some cool drugs or something?

Outside of that it seems like a useless diagnosis, at least for me- personality type was far more self-enlightening.
 

Hadoblado

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Where I live, you need to be diagnosed before (I believe) age four. My nephew has aspergers and my sister had to jump through a LOT of hoops in order to get him diagnosed within that time period. I assume the benefits are mostly to help young aspies get specific treatment and make life easier for the parents. There may be support groups etc., but these are less likely to require a doctor's certificate.
 

MrDane

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But with all those great tools, came stigma.

I hear you. I suppose the problem with diagnosis is that once you have it, you'll never get rid of it, and people won't think beyond it. Especially when it comes to psychological disorders it seems... Anyway, thanks for sharing.
 

MrDane

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My wife, INFP, is an aspie.

Now that's interesting, because NF types are supposed to be very empathetic, that is, intuitively pick up other people's intentions and feelings. And that's one of the things that Aspergers are said to be lacking.

Often, my girlfriend's type, INFJ, is called "the empath".
 

Polaris

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Your Aspie score: 144 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 60 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie

:confused:

poly12c.php


I don't understand how this makes me an 'Aspie'.

I answered as truthfully as I could. Somehow I don't trust this test...it would be interesting to see what other people score.

I think the result may be more reflective of environmental influences and type, whatever type I am.

As I child I was very withdrawn and preoccupied with my own things, I couldn't get enough information. Other kids bothered me, and I did not understand their games. I was also very unemotional and exceptionally well behaved, but prone to fits of anger, particularly if I was interrupted in some activity or someone tried to touch me without warning. I was very interested in music and things like zoology, astronomy, etc.

I think perhaps the detachment has more to do with being intermittently isolated from other children until I was about 7-8 though.

I do have issues with noises and distinguishing voices in settings where there is background noise...and I am rather jumpy...I talk to myself..but who doesn't.

I still doubt an internet test is going to accurately assess me the way an experienced therapist could though. There would be things like physical cues and expression to take into account. A few questions isn't going to provide a thorough diagnosis.

Like the question: "Do you feel comfortable in romantic relationships? "

I mean, it depends on what they mean by "comfortable."

My reason may be different to what the question assumes if I answer a certain way.


....then again....I never asked my old therapist (although I wanted to) what she was writing in her book...she seemed to take an awful lot of notes....:phear:

I gave up on therapists a long time ago.....

Edit: used Vrecknidj's link
 

MrDane

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Every psychology student and their dog's mother wants to diagnose their friends (I am one, and I do this shit all the time). They are often subject to a very strong availability bias, where the most introverted person they know must be autistic or schizophrenic, the most Perceiving people they know have ADHD, the most Judging people have OCD, and the most extroverted people must be histrionic.

I talk in reference to type to illustrate the point that this could just be their personality. My Mother thought I had Aspergers because I liked thinking, and acted out in forced social situations. While this is something that is similar to an Aspergian, there are many ways in which we differ that my mother couldn't see for her massive tunnel vision, despite her working in the healthcare industry specifically with autism spectrum individuals.

I think it's a good idea to ask your girlfriend what the importance of this diagnosis is. Will it change anything? Do you feel as if you need special help in the relevant areas? Diagnosis of autism as a condition is used to make categorical exception to a different skill set and outlook, but if you feel that you don't need this exception, why is an issue?

Obviously, we both talk a lot about Psychology. We both share a passion for it, and I've had some psychology courses as well. That's why we talk about it--it's interesting. Some of our shared assumptions are that we're all pretty "sick" to some degree, that is, our individual psyches have developed in ways that may be more or less helpful to us.

As I said, a "diagnosis" is an arbitrary set of criteria. My gf doesn't think I meet all the criteria for "Asperger's", but perhaps some of them. The same way she recognizes that she meet some of the criteria of "Borderline", though probably not enough to actually being diagnosed with it. Knowing that can be helpful as it helps you identify areas of growth and difficulties. For instance, knowing that I'm "socially awkward" makes social situations easier for me, because I can better prepare for them and it fools myself into being more gracious towards myself afterwards...which is a wonderful "bias" to have ;)

It's true what you say about the "availability" bias. But then, it makes sense to assume that we all know histrionic personalities and people with OCD when you consider how many that suffer from it in society relatively to how many people we know. I suppose, matematically, you're likely to know several people meeting criteria of several diagnoses. Of course, there are certain personality disorders that it's unlikely you'll encounter--those that stay at home or those that are in prison.
 

MrDane

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Lol, that's pretty awesome. Oh yea I was supposed to answer the thread... I've never taken any such test so I wouldn't know but I'm pretty sure there's nothing wrong with me. I can be cold sometimes but I see that as a consequence of frequent self analysis of my thoughts/emotions.

I think one of the lessons I've gotten from psychology is that we're ALL pretty messed up and could benefit from therapy. ;)
 

QuickTwist

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I think one of the lessons I've gotten from psychology is that we're ALL pretty messed up and could benefit from therapy. ;)

Too expensive IMO. Let the cards fall where they may. I have peace, about that.




No one is perfect!!!
(3 exclamation points to make a point)
 

Reluctantly

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You probably do, but there's a reason they changed it from Aspergers to the Autistic Spectrum.

For example, I share some aspects with the Autistic Spectrum that I think puts me more in the Highly Sensitive Person category though. I have poor motor control and have always preferred fast paced sports because I can make up for my lack of precise movements by being quick. But for autism you need some kind of impairment in motor functioning. I'm not impaired, but have to put more focus into it, then most people do; incidentally I have never really understood why people enjoy dancing. I suppose that's kind of weird, but it's true nonetheless.

I also don't really like looking people in the eyes; but it's because I'm good at reading people and find the thought invasion a bit unsettling. Autistics are supposedly bad at reading people and will not catch on to body-language/eyes. I, on the other hand, read body-language/eyes just fine and have no problem inferring things about people from that, even though those inferences may not be agreed upon by others if I make them explicit. Though I've learned not to do this because generally I've found if I make an inference explicit, someone can deny it with a rationalization, but then will still act in a way to justify the inference. People rarely say what they mean or do what they say; it's hell enough for a normal person, I can't imagine what it would be like to be autistic. I always hear about autistics getting violent and no one understands why and then I imagine they get tired from the frustration, but anyway...

I also share the obsessive interests kind of thing. But that's something that any inquiring/inquisitive mind will do. I think this difference between autistics in this regard is that they obsess over details in their environment and ordering those details in some way, such as how some autistics will memorize many digits of pi and such or order/classify something for no reason other than they felt the desire to. But I obsess over meaning and intuitions and figuring out problems.

As far as conversations and such, I can obviously tell if someone likes talking to me or not and don't really like chitchat; but that's because I find it under-handed when people put up these personas to be nice, even if they hate your guts and it can be hard to read through it unless you talk about things that aren't pre-scripted social etiquette. Sometimes being blunt is the best way to get a real expression from them and respond from that. Plus, the less you know someone, the more likely a conversation is going to be generalized and boring. I think autistics prefer these generalized and boring fronts because they know what to expect though. I think what they don't want is the more interesting affective prying that can come from chit-chat, where their reactions, expressions, and such are analyzed or intuited because then people assume things about them that aren't true or want them to feel things that they don't.

The one thing I have wondered about though is that I do share the autistic sensitivity thing. In order to adapt to the world, I've had to accept a certain level of discomfort because of that. In some ways I think it's caused me to center my mind around ignoring/dulling my senses and thinking about this does bring up feelings of frustration. I feel like humanity as a collective social entity isn't focused on (or is incapable of) achieving psychosomatic peace, but maybe that's a projection of my frustration. But everyone wants to be rich...that american dream idea...I wonder why?...and all those religions to end suffering...it's probably not just a projection...and collectively the rich need the poor to pamper them or they aren't rich...it really is a survival against each other of sorts in that way.

Where would you place yourselves on the autism scale?

All that said,
I got 17 from this test. http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html
In the first major trial using the test, the average score in the control group was 16.4. Eighty percent of those diagnosed with autism or a related disorder scored 32 or higher. The test is not a means for making a diagnosis, however, and many who score above 32 and even meet the diagnostic criteria for mild autism or Asperger's report no difficulty functioning in their everyday lives.
 

nanook

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urz like onto something, wez more in touch wiz da irrational truth of who we and teh otherz are. overwhelmed somtimez. teh senzitive mind is allwazy more impersonal and iconicalstic, thuz less in tune with the nerotypical expert of egioik illuzion.

tis motherfucker posted two blogz entiez on the topic, before he got eaten by a bottle of rum.
 

QuickTwist

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Agree: 4,5,13,16,19,20,21,22,23,42,46: 1 point
Disagree: 1,10,14,24,27,30,37,40,50: 1 point
Score: 20

For the record...
 

Paladin-X

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On the test mentioned by @Vrecknidj I got an Aspie score of 163 when I took it a while ago.

On the test mentioned by @Reluctantly I scored 38.
 

yogurtexpress

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I think most NTs will invariably be mistaken for being on the autistic spectrum at some point or another... generally INTx's more than the rest. I think Aspergers itself could have been made up to describe INTPs. lol

(since its not exactly autism, but its barely recognized by the DSM IV as someone pointed out)
 

kvothe27

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According to my psychiatrist, I have asperger's until the end of the month and then I'll just be on the autism spectrum because of the change in the DSM. I would place myself on the milder side of the spectrum.

I'm skeptical of the diagnosis though, since I've previously been diagnosed with Avoidance Personality Disorder, Schizoid Personality Disorder, and ADHD.
 

BloodCountess88

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Now that's interesting, because NF types are supposed to be very empathetic, that is, intuitively pick up other people's intentions and feelings. And that's one of the things that Aspergers are said to be lacking.

Often, my girlfriend's type, INFJ, is called "the empath".

There are new studies that show that non-verbal ASD children are 3 times more empathetic than neurotypical children.

I see it on my kids a lot. At school, a little girl got hurt and started to cry. My daughter who takes her favorite toys to school, went to her backpack and got her doll out and gave it to her, and gave her a hug. The teacher who has 20 years of experience in special ed/behaviorism told me that was the first time she saw a child in the spectrum behave like that. Note that my daughter has SPD and severely dislikes being touch, however her and her twin's brother environment is of one where I pay extreme attention to such details and I never give into the fallacy of "crying for no reason" when it comes to non-verbal children. They cry, just like any other person, for a very specific reason and it's vital to observe and deduct what is the true reason and how you can alleviate them. If done correctly, non-verbal children learn to show their empathy.

My son knows when someone is upset, and will go cuddle with me and say "it's ok".


I have a schizoid diagnosis, aspergers and schizoid are extremely similar. The main difference is weather or not you CAN have social interaction. people with aspergers often do crave social interaction, but are unable to get social cues and engage in fluid conversation. Schizoids can, however they do not crave it. We can live under a rock and be happy not talking to anyone, unless we need something. People on the ASD spectrum often can't even tell you when they need something being emotional or even food/drinks/something painful.

Kvothe27 unless you want therapy or some kind of service, my advice would be to be really weary of all the diagnosis you are getting. Read up on sensory processing disorder or sensory integrative disorder, and think hard about your social interactions.
 
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BigApplePi

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MrDane. Yes I've been accused. No. I don't have it but feel free to challenge that accusation. Here is where it was suggested:

Here. Sometimes I am interested in truth independent of my subjective opinions and emotions. Apparently I am very good at addressing some issues removing all emotion as best I can. This is deliberate and this skill comes from my background training. It had to be learned. Good scientists can do this but that is often in the hard sciences, not psychology and philosophy.

Of course by not declaring that as my intention this can upset people. This is a big social error or neglect on my part. Either that or if I declare my intention, that itself biases the result. As soon as I declare my intention, responders will direct themselves toward me the person and not the issue. My object is to stay out of it. It's a risk to be taken as in the example above a moderator stepped in and later another moderator asked about my intentions. These events change the way I will post in the future. Whether people with Asperger's can do this, I don't know.
 

kvothe27

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Kvothe27 unless you want therapy or some kind of service, my advice would be to be really weary of all the diagnosis you are getting. Read up on sensory processing disorder or sensory integrative disorder, and think hard about your social interactions.

I've undergone a great deal of therapy, group therapy, self-therapy, etc. The thing that I've noticed most is that most therapists/psychiatrists don't seem to know exactly what they're talking about. The entire endeavor is a process that can take a while, I realize, but it's frustrating and somewhat amusing to look back at past therapists/psychiatrists and realize some of them helped perpetuate my neuroses instead of alleviate them.

In any case, I'm more accepting of the autism spectrum diagnosis because that was apparently the consensus of all the therapists and psychiatrist with whom I spoke at the psych ward from which I was recently discharged after a brief but fascinating visit after suffering a mental breakdown.

However, my Ne still generates other possibilities and my Ti is merciless. As usual I'm skeptical and can never seemingly settle on any one thing. I'm sick to death of all this self examination and sometimes wish I would have just lived with my pathologies instead of continually confronting them. The unexamined life may not be worth living, but the examined life may be too much to endure.

Your advice is well taken though. I will look into these other issues you pointed out.

There are new studies that show that non-verbal ASD children are 3 times more empathetic than neurotypical children.

What is your source for this? I'm interested in learning more.
 

BloodCountess88

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The type of therapy you would benefit from is behaviorism. I'm talking more among the lines of helping you with structure, routine, non preferred daily tasks and completition and SPD - sensory overload (which often people on te spectrum have). People in the spectrum have poor communication skills and trouble identifying emotions, which most of the mainstream therapy for adults is based on. They don't know what they are doing because of it. However, stability/ environmental control/social model ans stories are proven to be the most effective and therapeutic (along with sensory input) to help develop coping skills and dealing with anxiety.

There are actually plenty of studies, the Intense World Syndrome (which actually go hand in hand with SPD and SID).


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2518049/


I can't find the specific study as now every time you google empathy and autism the school shooting comes up, but studies done regarding Sensory processing and nonverbal autism (which back in the day were thought to have severely low IQ, which now has been widely disproven) are showing that there are major difference between "feeling" empathy and actually displaying it. Because the severe communication issues in people (specially non verbal children) in the spectrum, after the '88 studies done there have been largely assumed to lack empathy. The new studies using labs rats and stress monitors are showing that there is, actual, stress response to traumatic situations and evidence of empathy being felt, however unable to be expressed. People who have SPD and SID are overwhelmed by stimuli and it affects them phisically, one touch can feel like 1000 needles, and often they can hear things like electricity. Which leads to believe that overall they tend to be hypersensitive, which can be applied emotionally (signs of SPD often come with socio-emotional outbursts and tantrums).

They are changing the cognitive tests now too, it hasn't gone "mainsteam" yet however they tested a new system that has absolutely no verbal/social contact while giving the test, and people in the ASD spectrum are scoring average and above average when before they were given way below average scores. Gah I can go on and on about this, I'll shut up...


You can look up the archives of autism speaks :). Their bulletin boards give the links to all this new information.
 

kvothe27

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The type of therapy you would benefit from is behaviorism. I'm talking more among the lines of helping you with structure, routine, non preferred daily tasks and completition and SPD - sensory overload (which often people on te spectrum have). People in the spectrum have poor communication skills and trouble identifying emotions, which most of the mainstream therapy for adults is based on. They don't know what they are doing because of it. However, stability/ environmental control/social model ans stories are proven to be the most effective and therapeutic (along with sensory input) to help develop coping skills and dealing with anxiety.

There are actually plenty of studies, the Intense World Syndrome (which actually go hand in hand with SPD and SID).

My first therapist thought I might be on the spectrum based on my apparent inability to identify my emotions. I believe I've gotten much better at it with age, but then there are competing explanations for such things, but perhaps not mutually exclusive, such as being INTP.

I found this conclusion especially interesting:

"we conclude that the autistic brain needs to be calmed down, learning needs to be slowed, and cognitive functions need to be diminished in order to re-instate proper functionality."

I've noticed that when I'm on valium my cognitive functioning increases. My thinking is more fluid, my understanding of new concepts is swifter, etc. Moreover, when I have a chance and the appropriate materials to learn on my own, which is often the case in college, I often outperform my peers. However, when I'm expected to learn as many of them do, which is apparently through verbal learning primarily, I fail or do poorly. There's usually too much going on in the classroom to effectively process the information being presented.

I often have mini meltdowns when I go to the library as well. People talking, people walking around, attractive girls, my skin bugging me, the fact that, psycho-socially speaking, I'm behind. Just being around people is infinitely annoying because fluid conversation is difficult because, well, I'm not quite sure. ADHD, anxiety short-circuiting my brain, my being the autism spectrum -- in any case, people often find me quite amusing and I've found myself the the object of much social bullying that often escaped me because I didn't know what was going on.


Thank you for the information.

EDIT: My test results:

Aspie-quiz
Your Aspie score: 118 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 78 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie
 
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